MX Linux Forum

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:47 pm**

Hi, new member here,

I am using MX-21 KDE and was looking at my regional format settings, trying to get numbers to be be displayed 1 234.56 (space as thousands separator and . as decimal character).
In settings > fomats, I have set numbers (and time) to en_GB (from en_ZA), while everything else is en_ZA.

The differences in the display is such:
en_ZA shows numbers as 1 000,00
en_GB shows numbers as 1,000.00

Yet, when I look at the locales definitions in /usr/share/i18n/locales/
LC_NUMERIC is defined exactly the same (en_GB vs en_ZA), i.e

Code: Select all

LC_NUMERIC
decimal_point           "."
thousands_sep           ","
grouping                3;3
END LC_NUMERIC

I wanted to modify my locale by following this link
https://askubuntu.com/questions/21316/h ... tem-locale,
but the instructions are for a different system which has folders that I do not.

Why is the NUMERIC value different for the same definition?
How do I change the definition to suit my needs?

I also want to apply the en_GB date format to en_ZA.

My system

Code: Select all

System:    Kernel: 5.10.0-13-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 10.2.1 
           parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.10.0-13-amd64 root=UUID=<filter> ro 
           quiet splash 
           Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.20.5 info: latte-dock wm: kwin_x11 vt: 7 dm: SDDM 
           Distro: MX-21_KDE_x64 Wildflower October 20  2021 base: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) 
Machine:   Type: Laptop System: LENOVO product: 36807K4 v: ThinkPad X201 serial: <filter> Chassis: type: 10 
           serial: <filter> 
           Mobo: LENOVO model: 36807K4 serial: <filter> BIOS: LENOVO v: 6QET70WW (1.40 ) date: 10/11/2012 
Battery:   ID-1: BAT0 charge: 0.3 Wh (100.0%) condition: 0.3/62.2 Wh (0.5%) volts: 12.5 min: 11.1 
           model: LGC 42T4837 type: Li-ion serial: <filter> status: Full 
CPU:       Info: Dual Core model: Intel Core i7 M 620 bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Nehalem family: 6 
           model-id: 25 (37) stepping: 5 microcode: 7 cache: L2: 4 MiB 
           flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 21280 
           Speed: 1451 MHz min/max: 1199/2667 MHz boost: enabled Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1451 2: 1454 3: 1477 
           4: 1416 
           Vulnerabilities: Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: VMX disabled 
           Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion; VMX: conditional cache flushes, SMT vulnerable 
           Type: mds status: Vulnerable: Clear CPU buffers attempted, no microcode; SMT vulnerable 
           Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI 
           Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl and seccomp 
           Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization 
           Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Retpolines, IBPB: conditional, IBRS_FW, STIBP: conditional, RSB filling 
           Type: srbds status: Not affected 
           Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected 
Graphics:  Device-1: Intel Core Processor Integrated Graphics vendor: Lenovo driver: i915 v: kernel 
           bus-ID: 00:02.0 chip-ID: 8086:0046 class-ID: 0300 
           Device-2: Lenovo Integrated Webcam type: USB driver: uvcvideo bus-ID: 1-1.6:5 chip-ID: 17ef:4816 
           class-ID: 0e02 
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.13 compositor: kwin_x11 driver: loaded: intel display-ID: :0 
           screens: 1 
           Screen-1: 0 s-res: 2720x900 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 719x238mm (28.3x9.4") s-diag: 757mm (29.8") 
           Monitor-1: LVDS1 res: 1280x800 hz: 60 dpi: 125 size: 261x163mm (10.3x6.4") diag: 308mm (12.1") 
           Monitor-2: VGA1 res: 1440x900 hz: 60 dpi: 89 size: 410x256mm (16.1x10.1") diag: 483mm (19") 
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel HD Graphics (ILK) v: 2.1 Mesa 21.2.5 direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Device-1: Intel 5 Series/3400 Series High Definition Audio vendor: Lenovo driver: snd_hda_intel 
           v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:3b56 class-ID: 0403 
           Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k5.10.0-13-amd64 running: yes 
           Sound Server-2: PulseAudio v: 14.2 running: yes 
Network:   Device-1: Intel 82577LM Gigabit Network vendor: Lenovo driver: e1000e v: kernel port: 1820 
           bus-ID: 00:19.0 chip-ID: 8086:10ea class-ID: 0200 
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
           Device-2: Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6200 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel modules: wl port: 1880 
           bus-ID: 02:00.0 chip-ID: 8086:4239 class-ID: 0280 
           IF: wlan0 state: down mac: <filter> 
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 465.76 GiB used: 192.6 GiB (41.4%) 
           SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required. 
           ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Hitachi model: HTS545050B9A300 size: 465.76 GiB block-size: 
           physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 3.0 Gb/s type: HDD rpm: 5400 serial: <filter> rev: C61H 
           scheme: MBR 
Partition: ID-1: / raw-size: 29.3 GiB size: 28.67 GiB (97.86%) used: 13.15 GiB (45.9%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda5 
           maj-min: 8:5 
           ID-2: /home raw-size: 308.85 GiB size: 303 GiB (98.11%) used: 179.46 GiB (59.2%) fs: ext4 
           dev: /dev/sda7 maj-min: 8:7 
Swap:      Kernel: swappiness: 15 (default 60) cache-pressure: 100 (default) 
           ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 6.84 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2 dev: /dev/sda6 
           maj-min: 8:6 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 48.0 C mobo: 0.0 C 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 3278 
Repos:     Packages: note: see --pkg apt: 2920 lib: 1597 flatpak: 0 
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list 
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/atareao-ubuntu-telegram-jammy.list 
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/bluemail.list 
           1: deb https://packages.bluemail.me/repos/debian/ ./
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list 
           1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye-updates main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list 
           1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye main contrib non-free
           2: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ bullseye-security main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list 
           1: deb https://ftp.saix.net/pub/linux/distributions/mxlinux/mx/repo/ bullseye main non-free
           2: deb https://ftp.saix.net/pub/linux/distributions/mxlinux/mx/repo/ bullseye ahs
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/nilarimogard-ubuntu-webupd8-jammy.list 
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/vivaldi-archive.list 
           1: deb [signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/vivaldi-browser.gpg arch=amd64] https://repo.vivaldi.com/archive/deb/ stable main
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/vivaldi.list 
           1: deb [arch=amd64] https://repo.vivaldi.com/stable/deb/ stable main
Info:      Processes: 234 Uptime: 43m wakeups: 2 Memory: 7.57 GiB used: 2.48 GiB (32.8%) Init: SysVinit v: 2.96 
           runlevel: 5 default: 5 tool: systemctl Compilers: gcc: 10.2.1 alt: 10 Shell: bash 
           default: Bash v: 5.1.4 running-in: quick-system-info-mx inxi: 3.3.06 
Boot Mode: BIOS (legacy, CSM, MBR)

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:00 pm**

Where do you change that in Plasma Settings? https://userbase.kde.org/File:Settings-locale.png

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:09 am**

Adrian wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:00 pm Where do you change that in Plasma Settings? https://userbase.kde.org/File:Settings-locale.png

I set it in System settings > Personalisation > Formats

locale settings.png

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:18 pm**

n8ive999 wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:47 pm I wanted to modify my locale by following this link
https://askubuntu.com/questions/21316/h ... tem-locale,
but the instructions are for a different system which has folders that I do not.

Why is the NUMERIC value different for the same definition?
How do I change the definition to suit my needs?

I also want to apply the en_GB date format to en_ZA.

I guess, you got confused about the locale defintions you found here /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_ZA
and
/usr/share/i18n/locales/en_GB
in comparision to what Kde/Plasma apps do show.

And you are right, the locale defined for en_ZA in /usr/share/i18n/locales
would show different numeric formats for those programs, which do use
the corresponding compiled locales compare to the Qt-apps, which are using Kde/Plasma defined formats.
Let's check.
First I reduced all local defined to just en_GB and en_ZA:

Code: Select all

locale -a | grep utf
en_GB.utf8
en_ZA.utf8

Now lets display the numeric format and regional date format within the console using bash printf "%'.2f" and date +%x

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for L in en_GB en_ZA; do LC=$L.UTF-8; FS="\\\n$L:\ %\'.2f\\\n"; CMD="LANG=$LC; printf $FS 10000; date +%x_%X"; bash -c "$CMD"; done
en_GB: 10,000.00   12/04/22_17:24:06
en_ZA: 10,000.00   12/04/2022_17:24:06

So it looks, the numeric format definde for both en_ZA and en_GB show in bash show identical.
And this is different to Kde/Plasma own set of format definition, which I guess
you are saying is the correct form.

OK, let's fix numeric format for decimal point and thousand separator,
e.g either within editor or just this way:

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sudo sed -i.orig  '/^decimal_point/s/\./,/; /^thousands_sep/s/,/ /' /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_ZA

which gives the desired result:

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grep -A4 ^LC_NUMERIC  /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_ZA
LC_NUMERIC
decimal_point           ","
thousands_sep           " "
grouping                3;3
END LC_NUMERIC

Now compile the locale definition:

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sudo locale-gen

Generating locales (this might take a while)...
  en_GB.UTF-8... done
  en_ZA.UTF-8... done
Generation complete.

Now check again, what we get with bash:

Code: Select all

for L in en_GB en_ZA; do LC=$L.UTF-8; FS="$L:\ %\'.2f\\\n"; CMD="LANG=$LC; printf $FS 10000; date +%x_%X"; bash -c "$CMD"; done
en_GB: 10,000.00 12/04/22_18:13:09
en_ZA: 10 000,00 12/04/2022_18:13:09

Which gives the same output as what Kde/Pasma's own format definition are showing.
Maybe I have not completely understood your questions?

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:50 am**

Thanks @fehlix .

Two things

1. REGEXP
I find it hard to read REGEXP syntax, so I GUESS your code changes are :
for decimal point - change "." to ","
for thousands sep - change "," to " "
Is this correct?

2. KDE displays vs what rest of system
You are saying that the KDE display is NOT what the rest of the system eg. LibrOffice, Konsole uses/shows. In other words, what is defined in said locales definitions (en_ZA) is the actual definitive implementations, and should ignore KDE displays?

If my assumptions are correct, and what I actually want is for
en_ZA
decimal_point "."
thousands_sep " "

Then I can just make the appropriate changes and ignore what Qt displays?

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:01 am**

Using my new implementation of Locales, I tried to get LO Calc to obey my newly created definitions.

And it just won't do it. (setting Dec-sep in Language to "Same as locale" triggers LO to change back to default. "Default" is apparently hard-coded)

I discovered this discussion re SA standards.
https://ask.libreoffice.org/t/decimal-s ... y/53597/7
So I guess this mentality has infiltrated all of Linux / Open-source coding.

I am at a loss.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:33 am**

n8ive999 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:50 am Thanks @fehlix .

Two things

1. REGEXP
I find it hard to read REGEXP syntax, so I GUESS your code changes are :
for decimal point - change "." to ","
for thousands sep - change "," to " "
Is this correct?

That's correct, the result of the changed adjustment using sed, was shown
and here again:

Code: Select all

grep -A4 ^LC_NUMERIC  /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_ZA
LC_NUMERIC
decimal_point           ","
thousands_sep           " "
grouping                3;3
END LC_NUMERIC

which appears to be what you are looking for.

n8ive999 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:50 am 2. KDE displays vs what rest of system
You are saying that the KDE display is NOT what the rest of the system eg. LibrOffice, Konsole uses/shows. In other words, what is defined in said locales definitions (en_ZA) is the actual definitive implementations, and should ignore KDE displays?

If my assumptions are correct, and what I actually want is for
en_ZA
decimal_point "."
thousands_sep " "

Then I can just make the appropriate changes and ignore what Qt displays?

That's the point most Kde app are certainly written within Qt, and Kde/Plasma appears to have it's own
locale system including defaults.
So depending what app you start, most apps including Qt-apps would probably still look for the systemwide compiled locale definitions. And probably Kde/Plasma specifc "apps" may use Kde/Plamas defined ones.
Locale-aware application may prefer to get the locale definition
from the compile locale-archive found within /usr/lib/locale/,
which you can list with

Code: Select all

locale -a

So best to make your en_ZA.UTF-8 adjustments as suggested, which would make show
the adjusted numeric (or date format - if adjusted ) properly.
My assumption is the Kde/plasma definitions are the "correct" one (whatever this means)
and your adjusted and compiled of the "corrected" locale definition from /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_ZA.
would make the none-Kde/Plasma specific apps display the corrected format properly.
In the ideal world the definitions here /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_ZA
should be corrected "upstream" (which means in "Debian"). It may even be
an "issue" within the locale standard definition. But I'm not a locale expert, to tell.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:29 am**

You may have missed this.

n8ive999 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:01 am Using my new implementation of Locales, I tried to get LO Calc to obey my newly created definitions.

And it just won't do it. (setting Dec-sep in Language to "Same as locale" triggers LO to change back to default. "Default" is apparently hard-coded)

I discovered this discussion re SA standards.
https://ask.libreoffice.org/t/decimal-s ... y/53597/7
So I guess this mentality has infiltrated all of Linux / Open-source coding.

I am at a loss.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:09 am**

n8ive999 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:01 am Using my new implementation of Locales, I tried to get LO Calc to obey my newly created definitions.

And it just won't do it. (setting Dec-sep in Language to "Same as locale" triggers LO to change back to default. "Default" is apparently hard-coded)

I discovered this discussion re SA standards.
https://ask.libreoffice.org/t/decimal-s ... y/53597/7
So I guess this mentality has infiltrated all of Linux / Open-source coding.

I am at a loss.

Not sure .. I got this in LO-Calc:
Set format of a Cell to en_ZA (which shows propely):

LO-Calc-Number-format-en-ZA.png

Displays as set:

LO-Calc-Number-format-en-ZA-2.png

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:47 am**

Is this after your edits in Post no 3?
What are your LANGUAGE settings in LO?

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Locales conflict

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