Locales conflict

[n8ive999]

Hi, new member here,

I am using MX-21 KDE and was looking at my regional format settings, trying to get numbers to be be displayed 1 234.56 (space as thousands separator and . as decimal character).
In settings > fomats, I have set numbers (and time) to en_GB (from en_ZA), while everything else is en_ZA.

The differences in the display is such:
en_ZA shows numbers as 1 000,00
en_GB shows numbers as 1,000.00

Yet, when I look at the locales definitions in /usr/share/i18n/locales/
LC_NUMERIC is defined exactly the same (en_GB vs en_ZA), i.e

Code: Select all

LC_NUMERIC
decimal_point           "."
thousands_sep           ","
grouping                3;3
END LC_NUMERIC

I wanted to modify my locale by following this link
https://askubuntu.com/questions/21316/h ... tem-locale,
but the instructions are for a different system which has folders that I do not.

Why is the NUMERIC value different for the same definition?
How do I change the definition to suit my needs?

I also want to apply the en_GB date format to en_ZA.

---

My system

Code: Select all

System:    Kernel: 5.10.0-13-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 10.2.1 
           parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.10.0-13-amd64 root=UUID=<filter> ro 
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Boot Mode: BIOS (legacy, CSM, MBR)

[Adrian]

Where do you change that in Plasma Settings? https://userbase.kde.org/File:Settings-locale.png

[n8ive999]

Where do you change that in Plasma Settings? https://userbase.kde.org/File:Settings-locale.png

I set it in System settings > Personalisation > Formats

locale settings.png

[fehlix]

I wanted to modify my locale by following this link
https://askubuntu.com/questions/21316/h ... tem-locale,
but the instructions are for a different system which has folders that I do not.

Why is the NUMERIC value different for the same definition?
How do I change the definition to suit my needs?

I also want to apply the en_GB date format to en_ZA.

I guess, you got confused about the locale defintions you found here /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_ZA
and
/usr/share/i18n/locales/en_GB
in comparision to what Kde/Plasma apps do show.

And you are right, the locale defined for en_ZA in /usr/share/i18n/locales
would show different numeric formats for those programs, which do use
the corresponding compiled locales compare to the Qt-apps, which are using Kde/Plasma defined formats.
Let's check.
First I reduced all local defined to just en_GB and en_ZA:

Code: Select all

locale -a | grep utf
en_GB.utf8
en_ZA.utf8

Now lets display the numeric format and regional date format within the console using bash printf "%'.2f" and date +%x

Code: Select all

for L in en_GB en_ZA; do LC=$L.UTF-8; FS="\\\n$L:\ %\'.2f\\\n"; CMD="LANG=$LC; printf $FS 10000; date +%x_%X"; bash -c "$CMD"; done
en_GB: 10,000.00   12/04/22_17:24:06
en_ZA: 10,000.00   12/04/2022_17:24:06

So it looks, the numeric format definde for both en_ZA and en_GB show in bash show identical.
And this is different to Kde/Plasma own set of format definition, which I guess
you are saying is the correct form.

OK, let's fix numeric format for decimal point and thousand separator,
e.g either within editor or just this way:

Code: Select all

sudo sed -i.orig  '/^decimal_point/s/\./,/; /^thousands_sep/s/,/ /' /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_ZA

which gives the desired result:

Code: Select all

grep -A4 ^LC_NUMERIC  /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_ZA
LC_NUMERIC
decimal_point           ","
thousands_sep           " "
grouping                3;3
END LC_NUMERIC

Now compile the locale definition:

Code: Select all

sudo locale-gen

Generating locales (this might take a while)...
  en_GB.UTF-8... done
  en_ZA.UTF-8... done
Generation complete.

Now check again, what we get with bash:

Code: Select all

for L in en_GB en_ZA; do LC=$L.UTF-8; FS="$L:\ %\'.2f\\\n"; CMD="LANG=$LC; printf $FS 10000; date +%x_%X"; bash -c "$CMD"; done
en_GB: 10,000.00 12/04/22_18:13:09
en_ZA: 10 000,00 12/04/2022_18:13:09

Which gives the same output as what Kde/Pasma's own format definition are showing.
Maybe I have not completely understood your questions?

[n8ive999]

Thanks @fehlix .

Two things

1. REGEXP
I find it hard to read REGEXP syntax, so I GUESS your code changes are :
for decimal point - change "." to ","
for thousands sep - change "," to " "
Is this correct?


2. KDE displays vs what rest of system
You are saying that the KDE display is NOT what the rest of the system eg. LibrOffice, Konsole uses/shows. In other words, what is defined in said locales definitions (en_ZA) is the actual definitive implementations, and should ignore KDE displays?

If my assumptions are correct, and what I actually want is for
en_ZA
decimal_point "."
thousands_sep " "

Then I can just make the appropriate changes and ignore what Qt displays?

[n8ive999]

Using my new implementation of Locales, I tried to get LO Calc to obey my newly created definitions.

And it just won't do it. (setting Dec-sep in Language to "Same as locale" triggers LO to change back to default. "Default" is apparently hard-coded)

I discovered this discussion re SA standards.
https://ask.libreoffice.org/t/decimal-s ... y/53597/7
So I guess this mentality has infiltrated all of Linux / Open-source coding.

I am at a loss.

[fehlix]

Thanks @fehlix .

Two things

1. REGEXP
I find it hard to read REGEXP syntax, so I GUESS your code changes are :
for decimal point - change "." to ","
for thousands sep - change "," to " "
Is this correct?

That's correct, the result of the changed adjustment using sed, was shown
and here again:

Code: Select all

grep -A4 ^LC_NUMERIC  /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_ZA
LC_NUMERIC
decimal_point           ","
thousands_sep           " "
grouping                3;3
END LC_NUMERIC

which appears to be what you are looking for.

2. KDE displays vs what rest of system
You are saying that the KDE display is NOT what the rest of the system eg. LibrOffice, Konsole uses/shows. In other words, what is defined in said locales definitions (en_ZA) is the actual definitive implementations, and should ignore KDE displays?

If my assumptions are correct, and what I actually want is for
en_ZA
decimal_point "."
thousands_sep " "

Then I can just make the appropriate changes and ignore what Qt displays?

That's the point most Kde app are certainly written within Qt, and Kde/Plasma appears to have it's own
locale system including defaults.
So depending what app you start, most apps including Qt-apps would probably still look for the systemwide compiled locale definitions. And probably Kde/Plasma specifc "apps" may use Kde/Plamas defined ones.
Locale-aware application may prefer to get the locale definition
from the compile locale-archive found within /usr/lib/locale/,
which you can list with

Code: Select all

locale -a

So best to make your en_ZA.UTF-8 adjustments as suggested, which would make show
the adjusted numeric (or date format - if adjusted ) properly.
My assumption is the Kde/plasma definitions are the "correct" one (whatever this means)
and your adjusted and compiled of the "corrected" locale definition from /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_ZA.
would make the none-Kde/Plasma specific apps display the corrected format properly.
In the ideal world the definitions here /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_ZA
should be corrected "upstream" (which means in "Debian"). It may even be
an "issue" within the locale standard definition. But I'm not a locale expert, to tell.

[n8ive999]

You may have missed this.

Using my new implementation of Locales, I tried to get LO Calc to obey my newly created definitions.

And it just won't do it. (setting Dec-sep in Language to "Same as locale" triggers LO to change back to default. "Default" is apparently hard-coded)

I discovered this discussion re SA standards.
https://ask.libreoffice.org/t/decimal-s ... y/53597/7
So I guess this mentality has infiltrated all of Linux / Open-source coding.

I am at a loss.

[fehlix]

Using my new implementation of Locales, I tried to get LO Calc to obey my newly created definitions.

And it just won't do it. (setting Dec-sep in Language to "Same as locale" triggers LO to change back to default. "Default" is apparently hard-coded)

I discovered this discussion re SA standards.
https://ask.libreoffice.org/t/decimal-s ... y/53597/7
So I guess this mentality has infiltrated all of Linux / Open-source coding.

I am at a loss.

Not sure .. I got this in LO-Calc:
Set format of a Cell to en_ZA (which shows propely):

LO-Calc-Number-format-en-ZA.png

Displays as set:

LO-Calc-Number-format-en-ZA-2.png

[n8ive999]

Is this after your edits in Post no 3?
What are your LANGUAGE settings in LO?