Page 1 of 1
What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:27 am
by Duliwi
Hello
This is my keyboard:
Keyboard1.jpg
Keyboard2.jpg
It's an ACER.
DKUSB1B0CY
75100D35K802
Model: SK-9626
99 keys
Question: How can I know, what "keyboard model" I have to choose here:
k20231118-132606.png
k20231118-131904.png
I have not found the exact model there.
------
When I press "Alt Gr+Y" I would expect "¥", because in the file /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ch I have the line:
Code: Select all
key <AB01> { [ y, Y, yen, Ydiaeresis ] };
... but I get "«" .
Has this something to do, with the wrong "keyboard model" ?
What exactly is the keyboard model? And what happens, if I have chosen the wrong keyboard model?
Would appreciate some help.
Thank you.
Edit:
Replaced the photograph of the back of the keyboard through text.
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:37 am
by Duliwi
Code: Select all
Snapshot created on: 20221106_1515
System: Kernel: 4.19.0-25-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 8.3.0
parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-25-amd64
root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet
Desktop: Xfce 4.14.2 tk: Gtk 3.24.5 info: xfce4-panel wm: xfwm 4.14.0 vt: 7
dm: LightDM 1.26.0 Distro: MX-19.4_x64 patito feo November 06 2022
base: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
Machine: Type: Desktop System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP ProDesk 600 G1 TWR v: N/A
serial: <filter> Chassis: type: 6 serial: <filter>
Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 18E7 serial: <filter> BIOS: Hewlett-Packard
v: L01 v02.77 date: 04/17/2019
CPU: Info: Quad Core model: Intel Core i5-4570 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Haswell family: 6
model-id: 3C (60) stepping: 3 microcode: 28 cache: L2: 6 MiB
flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 25542
Speed: 1714 MHz min/max: 800/3600 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1714 2: 1812 3: 1824
4: 1704
Vulnerabilities: Type: gather_data_sampling status: Not affected
Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: Split huge pages
Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion; VMX: conditional cache flushes, SMT disabled
Type: mds mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT disabled
Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI
Type: mmio_stale_data status: Unknown: No mitigations
Type: retbleed status: Not affected
Type: spec_store_bypass
mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl and seccomp
Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Retpolines, IBPB: conditional, IBRS_FW, STIBP: disabled,
RSB filling, PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected
Type: srbds mitigation: Microcode
Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
Graphics: Device-1: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics
vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: i915 v: kernel bus-ID: 00:02.0 chip-ID: 8086:0412
class-ID: 0300
Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 compositor: xfwm4 v: 4.14.0 driver:
loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa display-ID: :0 screens: 1
Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1920x1080 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 508x285mm (20.0x11.2")
s-diag: 582mm (22.9")
Monitor-1: VGA-1 res: 1920x1080 hz: 60 dpi: 92 size: 531x299mm (20.9x11.8")
diag: 609mm (24")
OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Haswell Desktop v: 4.5 Mesa 18.3.6 compat-v: 3.0
direct render: Yes
Audio: Device-1: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio
vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:03.0
chip-ID: 8086:0c0c class-ID: 0403
Device-2: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High Definition Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard
driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:8c20 class-ID: 0403
Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k4.19.0-25-amd64 running: yes
Sound Server-2: JACK v: 1.9.12 running: no
Sound Server-3: PulseAudio v: 12.2 running: yes
Network: Device-1: Intel Ethernet I217-LM vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: e1000e v: 3.2.6-k
port: f080 bus-ID: 00:19.0 chip-ID: 8086:153a class-ID: 0200
IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
IF-ID-1: vboxnet0 state: down mac: <filter>
IF-ID-2: vboxnet1 state: down mac: <filter>
Drives: Local Storage: total: 2.17 TiB used: 621.25 GiB (28.0%)
SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Silicon Power model: SPCC Solid State Disk
size: 238.47 GiB block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: SSD
serial: <filter> rev: T1.3 scheme: MBR
ID-2: /dev/sdb maj-min: 8:16 vendor: Silicon Power model: SPCC Solid State Disk
size: 119.24 GiB block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: SSD
serial: <filter> rev: 3A0 scheme: MBR
ID-3: /dev/sdc maj-min: 8:32 vendor: Toshiba model: HDWD120 size: 1.82 TiB
block-size: physical: 4096 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: HDD rpm: 7200
serial: <filter> rev: ACF0 scheme: GPT
Partition: ID-1: / raw-size: 230.47 GiB size: 225.79 GiB (97.97%) used: 103.2 GiB (45.7%)
fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1 maj-min: 8:1
Swap: Kernel: swappiness: 15 (default 60) cache-pressure: 100 (default)
ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 32 GiB used: 356.9 MiB (1.1%) priority: -2
dev: /dev/sdc1 maj-min: 8:33
Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 29.8 C mobo: 27.8 C
Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
Repos: Packages: 2807 note: see --pkg apt: 2772 lib: 1477 flatpak: 35
No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/brave-browser-release.list
1: deb [arch=amd64] https://brave-browser-apt-release.s3.brave.com/ buster main
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
2: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/enpass.list
1: deb https://apt.enpass.io/ stable main
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-earth-pro.list
1: deb [arch=amd64] http://dl.google.com/linux/earth/deb/ stable main
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list
1: deb https://mx-linux.ethz.ch/mx-packages/mx/repo/ buster main non-free
2: deb https://mx-linux.ethz.ch/mx-packages/mx/testrepo/ buster test
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/softmaker.list
1: deb http://shop.softmaker.com/repo/apt stable non-free
No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/vivaldi.list
1: deb [arch=amd64] http://repo.vivaldi.com/stable/deb/ stable main
Info: Processes: 343 Uptime: 1d 54m wakeups: 41 Memory: 15.56 GiB used: 8.71 GiB (56.0%)
Init: SysVinit v: 2.93 runlevel: 5 default: 5 tool: systemctl Compilers: gcc: 8.3.0
alt: 8 Shell: quick-system-in default: Bash v: 5.0.3 running-in: quick-system-in
inxi: 3.3.06
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:49 am
by j2mcgreg
Where do you live?
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:10 am
by Eadwine Rose
Europe, looks like.. with the € key
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:43 am
by j2mcgreg
Eadwine Rose wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:10 am
Europe, looks like.. with the € key
It looked like that to me at first, but then he says his problem is that he can't produce the Japanese Yen symbol. Hence my question.
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:57 am
by Duliwi
j2mcgreg wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:49 am
Where do you live?
Europe German-Switzerland ( == Confoederatio Helvetica (CH) )
I assume that "ch" in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ch means Switzerland.
.ch is the country code top-level domain (ccTLD) for Switzerland in the Domain Name System of the Internet. Made available in 1987,[2] only two years after .com, it is administered by SWITCH Information Technology Services.[3]
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:10 am
by fehlix
Maybe post details in the form of this command text output:
This would avoid picture-guessing help attempts.
Also in doubt stay with "Generic 105-key PC" for the keyboard model.
The keyboard layout looks to me like shown within this picture for ch_de:
kbd_ch_de-m.jpg
Which leads to the conclusion to type 3rd level chars like the Yen symbol ¥:
with AltGr+Shift+Z -> ¥
That's under the assumption that AltGr is not remapped and provides "Level3 Symbols"
Note: The full layout was captured with this command running in bash on terminal:
Code: Select all
gkbd-keyboard-display -l ch$'\t'de
provided by Gnome's keyboard lib/viewer packages: gkbd-capplet
kbd_ch_de.jpg
HTH
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:20 am
by thomasl
I can't check whether the following makes sense as I have no MX19 installed anymore. But if the /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ch file in MX23 is similar to the MX19 version then you have a mismatch between your actual setting (seems to be "German (Switzerland)") and the setting you're referring to with
Code: Select all
key <AB01> { [ y, Y, yen, Ydiaeresis ] };
which seems to be further down in the file /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ch, in subsection "German (Switzerland, Macintosh)".
Select the latter subsection in the keyboard selection box and perhaps you'll get what you want.
Screenshot_2023-11-18_14-18-27.png
EDIT: It's also possible to edit this (or any keyboard) file to your liking. I've significantly modified the UK definitions./EDIT
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:24 am
by j2mcgreg
The keyboard in the images looks like the one that Acer supplies when you purchase one of their desktops. It's an attempt by Acer to produce a generic multilingual keyboard but it really doesn't succeed. My advice to you is to go to your local computer parts store and pick their staff's brains while you try out the various keyboard models. Once you find a model you like, then buy it on Amazon (but only if it is substantially cheaper that the store's price),
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:34 am
by fehlix
thomasl wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:20 am
I can't check whether the following makes sense as I have no MX19 installed anymore. But if the /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ch file in MX23 is similar to the MX19 version then you have a mismatch between your actual setting (seems to be "German (Switzerland)") and the setting you're referring to with
Code: Select all
key <AB01> { [ y, Y, yen, Ydiaeresis ] };
which seems to be further down in the file /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ch, in subsection "German (Switzerland, Macintosh)".
Select the latter subsection in the keyboard selection box and perhaps you'll get what you want.
Screenshot_2023-11-18_14-18-27.png
EDIT: It's also possible to edit this (or any keyboard) file to your liking. I've significantly modified the UK definitions./EDIT
The keyboard for a "German (Switzerland, Macintosh)" layout
would look like this: shown with this command: gkbd-keyboard-display -l ch$'\t'de_mac )
ch_mac_de-m.jpg
and seems not to fit to the picture of the keyboard shown in #1.
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:07 am
by Duliwi
Thank you all.
fehlix wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:34 am
The keyboard for a "German (Switzerland, Macintosh)" layout
would look like this: shown with this command: gkbd-keyboard-display -l ch$'\t'de_mac )
ch_mac_de-m.jpg
and seems not to fit to the picture of the keyboard shown in #1.
That's right. I have not the keyboard
"gkbd-keyboard-display -l ch$'\t'de_mac" .
The keyboard
"gkbd-keyboard-display -l ch$'\t'de" fits to my keyboard.
-> This means, I was wrong to expect, that "Alt Gr + y" will show me the character ¥. It should show me the character "«" . And it does. So actually my expectation was wrong, and the keyboard works as it should.
Thank you fehlix for pointing this out.
But why did I have this wrong expectation?
Answer: Because I have miss interpreted the content of the file ...
thomasl wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:20 am
... if the /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ch file in MX23 is similar to the MX19 version then you have a mismatch between your actual setting (seems to be "German (Switzerland)") and the setting you're referring to with
Code: Select all
key <AB01> { [ y, Y, yen, Ydiaeresis ] };
which seems to be further down in the file /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ch, in subsection "German (Switzerland, Macintosh)".
Select the latter subsection in the keyboard selection box and perhaps you'll get what you want.
Screenshot_2023-11-18_14-18-27.png
EDIT: It's also possible to edit this (or any keyboard) file to your liking. I've significantly modified the UK definitions./EDIT
Thank you. This is very interesting.
I have changed to "German (Switzerland, Macintosh)" as you suggested and now I got "¥" with "Alt Gr + y".
Actually I do not need "¥". This was only an example.
So I have set back my Layout into "German (Switzerland, NOT Macintosh)"
This means I have now again "«", which is alright.
Question:
Where in the file
"/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ch" can I see, that I get "«", when I press "Alt Gr + y" ?
I have only found two lines in "
/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ch" for key <AB01>:
Code: Select all
key <AB01> { [ y, Y ] };
key <AB01> { [ y, Y, yen, Ydiaeresis ] };
But where can I see, that I get "«", when I press "Alt Gr + y" ?
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:30 am
by fehlix
Duliwi wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:07 am
Where in the file "/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ch" can I see, that I get "«", when I press "Alt Gr + y" ?
That's probaly somewhere within the german part of the layout definition.
Something like this may help to dive into keyboard layout definitions,
to find some symbols like the
»Guillemet« :
Code: Select all
grep -i guillem /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/de
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:36 am
by thomasl
As
@fehlix has mentioned, many keys are inherited as defaults from other layouts, ie we're seeing layers of layouts, building on each other. For your "German (Switzerland)" layout "Latin" seems to be the "base layer":
Code: Select all
include "latin"
name[Group1]= "German (Switzerland)";
These keyboard definition files are pretty powerful but alas not very easy to disentangle. There are some help pages around but most of the changes I applied were based on rounds of trial and error.
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:03 am
by Duliwi
I see. So I would have found it with ...
Code: Select all
$ grep -i guillem /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/latin
key <AB01> { [ z, Z, guillemotleft, less ] };
key <AB02> { [ x, X, guillemotright, greater ] };
key <AE08> { [ 8, parenleft, bracketleft, guillemotleft] };
key <AE09> { [ 9, parenright, bracketright, guillemotright] };
key <AB01> { [ y, Y, guillemotleft, less ] };
key <AD11> { [bracketleft, braceleft, U2039, guillemotleft ] };
key <AD12> { [bracketright, braceright, U203A, guillemotright ] };
?
It's ...
key <AB01> { [ y, Y, guillemotleft, less ] }; that corresponds with
y;Y;«;<
... in the file
"/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/latin"
And yes, this fits to my keyboard.
But strange, that it is in the section ...
Code: Select all
// Slavic Latin ( Albanian, Croatian, Polish, Slovene, Yugoslav)
// common layout
How do I interpret key <AB01> ?
"A" is the second bottom row of the keyboard? But what is "B" and "01" ?
Re: What keyboard model should I choose?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:23 am
by thomasl