Responses to Coming changes in impending MX 25 release.

[baldyeti]

Please forgive me - if I wish to stick with MX 23, how long will it be "supported"?

I am not an MX dveloper, but debian 12 "bookworm" is supported until about June 2026, then by the LTS team for two extra years and even by the freexian team until 2033 (core packages and security only).

[exponentialmatrix]

dumb question, can't they at least use update-alternatives for the init? You'll have to do a reboot for the change to take effect but at least you can still install them side by side.

[Adrian]

dumb question, can't they at least use update-alternatives for the init? You'll have to do a reboot for the change to take effect but at least you can still install them side by side.

There's a difference between what is theoretically possible and what is practically available, the init systems are not meant to live together with other init systems, It's a Hightlander kind of thing "there can be only one" that's why when you install one it might remove the other. Ideally it would be just a package and you can point that that with something like update-alternatives, but it's not, at least not in Debian... in reality an init system has multiple components, and many packages that depend on that only so when you remove it a host of packages get removed...

[exponentialmatrix]

i don't know the complexities of the init system or if the system will tolerate this. In theory it's a simple packaging change.

[dreamer]

Well, I don't pretend to know all the details and Gnome 2 was on it's way out when I got onboard but certainly RedHat seems to call the tune and what Fedora gets first (usually in an early beta state) we all get later. It's always puzzled me how Debian is often the cautious voice of choice and reason and the foundation of most popular Distros yet they seem to carry no weight in 'big Linux' decisions..

I have to respectfully disagree. Debian is the most important distro and Red Hat has limited reach without Debian support. The reason systemd is the de facto init system of Linux is because "Debian" wanted it this way. In Debian I think basically systemd (Red Hat employees) won over Upstart (Canonical employees) with 1 vote or something like that.

After Debian announced that systemd had been chosen, then Mark Shuttleworth announced that he would transition Ubuntu to systemd. So without Debian/Ubuntu/Mint there isn't much traction for Red Hat in the "consumer space".

As an Ubuntu user (at the time) this was a huge disappointment. Not because Upstart was something special, but because at the time it was the only stable init for Ubuntu. I believe Upstart would have been a less controversial decision since I believe it is less invasive and can co-exist with other inits (at the package level). It found a new home in ChromeOS. But now ChromeOS is switching to Android base so Upstart is on its way out.

[asqwerth]

Please forgive me - if I wish to stick with MX 23, how long will it be "supported"? I'm happy with the way things are now (MX 23 with KDE5), and I know that the 6.1 LTS kernel series is "supported" until December 2027 - would that timeframe be a reasonable cutoff date for MX 23 "support", as well? I have read the original blog post in #1 - it's just not crystal clear to me about the timelines for remaining on SysV with KDE and MX 23.

Besides the wiki link someone else provided about Debian support, you can search for "about MX Linux" on your own MX install, and the 2nd tab of MX Welcome will open showing the supported period of MX23.

[AVLinux]

Well, I don't pretend to know all the details and Gnome 2 was on it's way out when I got onboard but certainly RedHat seems to call the tune and what Fedora gets first (usually in an early beta state) we all get later. It's always puzzled me how Debian is often the cautious voice of choice and reason and the foundation of most popular Distros yet they seem to carry no weight in 'big Linux' decisions..

I have to respectfully disagree. Debian is the most important distro and Red Hat has limited reach without Debian support. The reason systemd is the de facto init system of Linux is because "Debian" wanted it this way. In Debian I think basically systemd (Red Hat employees) won over Upstart (Canonical employees) with 1 vote or something like that.

After Debian announced that systemd had been chosen, then Mark Shuttleworth announced that he would transition Ubuntu to systemd. So without Debian/Ubuntu/Mint there isn't much traction for Red Hat in the "consumer space".

As an Ubuntu user (at the time) this was a huge disappointment. Not because Upstart was something special, but because at the time it was the only stable init for Ubuntu. I believe Upstart would have been a less controversial decision since I believe it is less invasive and can co-exist with other inits (at the package level). It found a new home in ChromeOS. But now ChromeOS is switching to Android base so Upstart is on its way out.

I'm always happy to be corrected and informed especially in matters where I'm offering an impression and not facts, I don't know the details, I just know as someone building ISO's for many years that often changes seem to come TO Debian and then need adoption and not necessarily from within the organization itself but again I'm an uninformed apolitical outsider.

[siamhie]

Thanks anyway.

I wonder how Slackware users will cope. KDE's been default for some time and Slackware's been opposed to systemd from the very start of the affair. Then again, Patrick is quite a wizard so he may find a work around.

@LU344928 I booted up AlienBob's latest Slackware15 -current live ISO (Aug 5th 2025) but they are still on KDE 5.27

[dreamer]

I'm always happy to be corrected and informed especially in matters where I'm offering an impression and not facts, I don't know the details, I just know as someone building ISO's for many years that often changes seem to come TO Debian and then need adoption and not necessarily from within the organization itself but again I'm an uninformed apolitical outsider.

Sorry for quoting you as a pretext for venting a little. My only objection was your impression that Debian is some kind of victim (if I read that right). If Debian is a victim it must be to self-harm. The Universal Operating System shouldn’t be tied to systemd in my opinion.

This Debian systemd decision still gets to me. I'm a happy Windows user, but I wanted something different.

[DukeComposed]

If Debian is a victim it must be to self-harm. The Universal Operating System shouldn’t be tied to systemd in my opinion.

A number of Debian members agree with you. However, due to Debian's fairly obtuse democratic process, systemd was selected as the default init for jessie. As Douglas Adams once wrote, "This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Even at the time a number of people were upset about the vote and feel the final decision was coerced. Bear in mind, there's always Devuan, the project created as a reaction to the decision, with a stated goal of providing "init freedom", and in practical terms to maintain a systemd-free Debian fork.