MX Linux Forum

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:45 pm**

An upgrade to minstall over the past few days has caused issues. Freezes. After a couple of tries worked - until it got towards the end - then insisted on a username/password ( i usually skip this - since I am installing on my own machines) - then did not install grub - and was unable to boot at all..
Fortunately, I had a snapshot from earlier - so I am OK.

Question:
Is there a way to freeze things like snapshot, LUM, minstall and other such critical system features? These were all working flawlessly, and I have no interest in beta-testing new versions of these.
I would still like to run the MX-updater for security updates and minor tweaks.

More broadly, perhaps the devs should consider that now that MX Linux has moved out of the hobbyist mode to a Major Mainstream Distro - maybe dont push out updates on critical system components too fast? Wait till all the bugs are ironed out - and maybe do it on some schedule. Its disconcerting to run an update and have the critical system components failing. Thanks!

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:37 am**

Strange, I haven't been 'offered' any updates for a couple of weeks - did you seek out updates or was it actually 'offered' up to you(?).

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:08 pm**

mxer wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:37 am Strange, I haven't been 'offered' any updates for a couple of weeks - did you seek out updates or was it actually 'offered' up to you(?).

Yes plenty - probably 30-50 updates.
Anyway - to answer my own question: Its easy - go to the Repo manager and uncheck the Antix and MX boxes. Still get Debian updates, security updates, chrome updates. But thats it. And thats all I want - because MX Linux is Perfect the way it is- and I want to freeze that.

I'll gladly try the next version of MX on my experimental machine , make sure everything works etc. And Iam sure it will continue to be superb.
But I want my day to day machine to be predictable. I dont play with OS stuff everyday, I would say its more of a hobby . I prefer to play with it when I want to, when I have free time.

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:01 am**

rs55 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:45 pm An upgrade to minstall over the past few days has caused issues. Freezes. After a couple of tries worked - until it got towards the end - then insisted on a username/password ( i usually skip this - since I am installing on my own machines) - then did not install grub - and was unable to boot at all..
Fortunately, I had a snapshot from earlier - so I am OK.

Question:
Is there a way to freeze things like snapshot, LUM, minstall and other such critical system features? These were all working flawlessly, and I have no interest in beta-testing new versions of these.
I would still like to run the MX-updater for security updates and minor tweaks.

More broadly, perhaps the devs should consider that now that MX Linux has moved out of the hobbyist mode to a Major Mainstream Distro - maybe dont push out updates on critical system components too fast? Wait till all the bugs are ironed out - and maybe do it on some schedule. Its disconcerting to run an update and have the critical system components failing. Thanks!

Just to clarify, the freezing and other issues happened as you were installing the distro from an up-to-date snapshot? Or the 18.3 iso itself on which you applied all updates?

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:46 am**

asqwerth wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:01 am
rs55 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:45 pm An upgrade to minstall over the past few days has caused issues. Freezes. After a couple of tries worked - until it got towards the end - then insisted on a username/password ( i usually skip this - since I am installing on my own machines) - then did not install grub - and was unable to boot at all..
Fortunately, I had a snapshot from earlier - so I am OK.

Question:
Is there a way to freeze things like snapshot, LUM, minstall and other such critical system features? These were all working flawlessly, and I have no interest in beta-testing new versions of these.
I would still like to run the MX-updater for security updates and minor tweaks.

More broadly, perhaps the devs should consider that now that MX Linux has moved out of the hobbyist mode to a Major Mainstream Distro - maybe dont push out updates on critical system components too fast? Wait till all the bugs are ironed out - and maybe do it on some schedule. Its disconcerting to run an update and have the critical system components failing. Thanks!
Just to clarify, the freezing and other issues happened as you were installing the distro from an up-to-date snapshot? Or the 18.3 iso itself on which you applied all updates?

From an uptodate snapshot of my system.

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:38 am**

Can we see your Quick System Info please?

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:30 am**

rs55 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:45 pm ... towards the end - then insisted on a username/password ( i usually skip this - since I am installing on my own machines) - then did not install grub - and was unable to boot at all..

That's rather an unusual installation procedure. Might be installing without user setup has worked in older versions differently.

rs55 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:45 pm Is there a way to freeze things ...

I think you could set a package on "hold" ( apt-mark: "mark on hold" or synaptic : "lock version") so it will not be upgraded ...

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:23 pm**

JayM wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:38 am Can we see your Quick System Info please?

Unfortunately I dont have the offending minstall on my system now. I have reverted the system back to how it was about a week ago. But if it is helpful here is the inxi from my current system ( which is flawless!):
System:
Host: w520-1 Kernel: 5.1.0-6.1-liquorix-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64
compiler: gcc v: 6.3.0 Desktop: Xfce 4.12.3
Distro: MX-18.3_x64 Continuum Feb 9 2019
base: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch)
Machine:
Type: Laptop System: LENOVO product: 4270CTO v: ThinkPad W520
serial: <filter>
Mobo: LENOVO model: 4270CTO serial: <filter> UEFI [Legacy]: LENOVO
v: 8BET66WW (1.46 ) date: 06/14/2018
Battery:
ID-1: BAT0 charge: 53.1 Wh condition: 67.5/93.2 Wh (72%)
model: SANYO 42T4799 status: Unknown
CPU:
Topology: Quad Core model: Intel Core i7-2760QM bits: 64 type: MCP
arch: Sandy Bridge rev: 7 L2 cache: 6144 KiB
flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 19138
Speed: 902 MHz min/max: 800/3500 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1112 2: 2458
3: 1316 4: 861
Graphics:
Device-1: Intel 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics
vendor: Lenovo driver: i915 v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0
Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.19.2 driver: none resolution: 1600x900~60Hz
OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Sandybridge Mobile v: 3.3 Mesa 18.2.6
direct render: Yes
Audio:
Device-1: Intel 6 Series/C200 Series Family High Definition Audio
vendor: Lenovo driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:1b.0
Device-2: Texas Instruments Audio Codec type: USB
driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid bus ID: 2-1.1:3
Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.1.0-6.1-liquorix-amd64
Network:
Device-1: Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel
port: efa0 bus ID: 03:00.0
IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
Drives:
Local Storage: total: 698.65 GiB used: 268.74 GiB (38.5%)
ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Samsung model: SSD 860 EVO 500GB size: 465.76 GiB
ID-2: /dev/sdb vendor: Samsung model: SSD 860 EVO mSATA 250GB
size: 232.89 GiB
Partition:
ID-1: / size: 95.62 GiB used: 20.61 GiB (21.6%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sdb2
ID-2: swap-1 size: 3.91 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sdb3
Sensors:
System Temperatures: cpu: 45.0 C mobo: N/A
Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 2543
Info:
Processes: 214 Uptime: 4h 09m Memory: 15.45 GiB used: 2.09 GiB (13.5%)
Init: SysVinit runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 6.3.0 Shell: bash v: 4.4.12
inxi: 3.0.33

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:27 pm**

fehlix wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:30 am
rs55 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:45 pm ... towards the end - then insisted on a username/password ( i usually skip this - since I am installing on my own machines) - then did not install grub - and was unable to boot at all..
That's rather an unusual installation procedure. Might be installing without user setup has worked in older versions differently.
rs55 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:45 pm Is there a way to freeze things ...
I think you could set a package on "hold" ( apt-mark: "mark on hold" or synaptic : "lock version") so it will not be upgraded ...

Yes , perhaps. The way I use snapshot/LUM is - I make a USB of my current laptop with all kinds of things I have done to it. Then I use that USB to install an identical copy of my system on 4 other machines. So - I want to have the same Username/login , passwords etc on all machines. I found the easiest way to do this was to simply skip the last page of minstall where it asks for username etc. because it wont let me put in the same username that is on the USB version.
Maybe there is a more elegant way to accomplish this?

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:12 pm**

The new installer very likely won't complete without that information.

However, if you do a "personal" snapshoy.that information should be preserved. The installer should skip user creation in that case. Or at least it used to.

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:39 pm**

dolphin_oracle wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:12 pm The new installer very likely won't complete without that information.

However, if you do a "personal" snapshoy.that information should be preserved. The installer should skip user creation in that case. Or at least it used to.

Thanks Dolphin. I do always make "personal" snapshots. The installer still asks for a username etc at the last page of the install process. As you say, it would make sense to skip this page (ie. not have minstall ask for this info) if its a personal snapshot.

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:44 pm**

rs55 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:39 pm
dolphin_oracle wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:12 pm The new installer very likely won't complete without that information.

However, if you do a "personal" snapshoy.that information should be preserved. The installer should skip user creation in that case. Or at least it used to.
Thanks Dolphin. I do always make "personal" snapshots. The installer still asks for a username etc at the last page of the install process. As you say, it would make sense to skip this page (ie. not have minstall ask for this info) if its a personal snapshot.

Its interesting a lot of the issues I have had ( mostly resolved thanks to your great team!) appear to be because it appears not many people use snapshot/LUM the way I do. I mean if people mainly use snapshot/LUM to create tweaked versions of the OS to share with friends - thats a different use case that the way I use it.
I do highly recommend my way though! Its a great way to keep all your machines synchronized, and it removes all fear of getting virus infections, bad updates etc - because it takes 5 minutes to reinstall my entire system ( configurations,apps, data and everything) from bare metal.

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:56 pm**

rs55 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:39 pm
dolphin_oracle wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:12 pm The new installer very likely won't complete without that information.

However, if you do a "personal" snapshoy.that information should be preserved. The installer should skip user creation in that case. Or at least it used to.
Thanks Dolphin. I do always make "personal" snapshots. The installer still asks for a username etc at the last page of the install process. As you say, it would make sense to skip this page (ie. not have minstall ask for this info) if its a personal snapshot.

The latest iteration of the installer ( which I had to remove) not only presents that username/password screen, but does not allow you to end the process without completing that screen ! I dont know what I would enter on that page - since it wont accept the normal username/password. I suppose one would have to create a temporary username- then go back into the installed system and delete the temporary user and put in the normal user. Convoluted.

Posted: **Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:25 am**

Hi rs55,

Sorry to hear you're experiencing these issues with the installer.

There's been a few bug fixes and some other changes in the installer since MX 18.3: https://github.com/MX-Linux/gazelle-ins ... _amd64.deb

You can use this by opening with gdebi while in the live environment. Please let us know if the issue still continues.

Posted: **Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:19 pm**

I want to say here that I've been working with several snapshots and personal snapshots today, and so far the latest version of the installer is working as intended. the user creation screen has not been offerred on personal snapshot installations, from either iso files or from live-USBs, on several different machines.

so maybe the bug rs55 encountered has been fixed.

Posted: **Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:01 pm**

dolphin_oracle wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:19 pm I want to say here that I've been working with several snapshots and personal snapshots today, and so far the latest version of the installer is working as intended. the user creation screen has not been offerred on personal snapshot installations, from either iso files or from live-USBs, on several different machines.

so maybe the bug rs55 encountered has been fixed.

Well, I upgraded everything just now, after seeing your comment. minstall upgraded from 19.4 to 19.5.2

Unfortunately the problem is still there. At the last page of the installation it says something like "waiting for user input" ( this is a new "feature"). Then it goes on to the username page - and exiting out at this stage - aborts the whole thing and the system cannot boot - no grub etc. ( this is new "feature" as well).
In the old version ( 19.4) , I could simply exit at that last page - and everything worked.

Posted: **Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:11 pm**

dolphin_oracle wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:19 pm I want to say here that I've been working with several snapshots and personal snapshots today, and so far the latest version of the installer is working as intended. the user creation screen has not been offerred on personal snapshot installations, from either iso files or from live-USBs, on several different machines.

so maybe the bug rs55 encountered has been fixed.

dolphin - could you check what version of minstall you have? Thanks a lot.

Posted: **Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:15 pm**

Can you please post the output of the following commands while in the live snapshot:

Code: Select all

ls -als /home
grep -E '^UID_MIN|^UID_MAX' /etc/login.defs
getent passwd {1000..60000}

Also if you can provide the contents of /var/log/minstall.log that may help us diagnose the problem you're having.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:16 am**

AK-47 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:15 pm Can you please post the output of the following commands while in the live snapshot:
Code: Select all
ls -als /home
grep -E '^UID_MIN|^UID_MAX' /etc/login.defs
getent passwd {1000..60000}
Also if you can provide the contents of /var/log/minstall.log that may help us diagnose the problem you're having.

I upgraded minstall to 19.6.4 . Same problem. Is this not a design choice? Looks like it. I see things have changed since 19.4. There is now a new message box that pops up towards the end when it is 95% done. "user input required". Then it clearly insists on having the username filled out - or it will self-destruct !
Anyway - I have attched minstall.log - hope that is helpful. In the meantime I will continue to keep MX and Antix off my repo list to avoid updates. minstall 19.4 was working perfectly well, as was the rest of the system. And I still get the updates from Debian.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:40 am**

MX has a huge opportunity in front of it. Windows 10 is diabolically bad ( unlikely to improve because the entire concept of the OS as a "service" requires these constant updates and a wide open backdoor - not good), Ubuntu appears to be making some poor choices in direction and starting to turn people off. Debian is great - but requires quite a bit of work to get working right for your average desktop user. Arch /Manjaro - is too bleeding edge and not rock solid stable. Then there are tons of smaller distros that come and go - not confidence inducing for a home user who wants stability and long term support with updates etc.
No - MX is starting to look like the king of the hill. Has the right stuff.

It is important to define your audience as you make changes to key components of the system - like the installer. After all if the installer is finicky - new users will just move on and miss out on the great MX experience.
I realize the users who are most vocal and populate these blogs etc are OS /Linux enthusiasts. many have ideas on adding , tweaking the base MX distro and making their own respin etc. Great, more power to them.
But - if you make design choices that makes life a teeny bit easier for them while breaking important functionality for the average home user - you will be missing out on a huge potential audience.
When it comes to tradeoffs, I would suggest making it foolproof and consistent for the home user. The enthusiast crowd is in any event more sophisticated and probably dont need handholding.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:43 am**

Then it goes on to the username page - and exiting out at this stage - aborts the whole thing

What do you mean by that, do you just exit the installer? Hit "Close"?

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:49 am**

Adrian wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:43 am
Then it goes on to the username page - and exiting out at this stage - aborts the whole thing
What do you mean by that, do you just exit the installer? Hit "Close"?

Yes. Thats what I have been doing all along - and up to version 19.4 of the installer, it would exit without a fuss. But now - it wont let you out of that last screen.
Does'nt make any sense. I boot from a live USB that has 7GB of stuff, including all kinds of config files and whatnot in the home folder. When I boot the live USB I have to enter my usual username/passwd. I dont want to create a new user on install - I just want to install the live USB exactly as it is.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:50 am**

OK, so it's user error, you should never NEVER exit the installer, unless you see the "Done" message.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:51 am**

A request - is there someway you can provide a .deb file of the installer version 19.4 ? I would like a copy of that just in case I wind up accidentally upgrading.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:53 am**

Adrian wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:50 am OK, so it's user error, you should never NEVER exit the installer, unless you see the "Done" message.

OK - so what do you suggest I enter on that page. It wont accept the username, passswd that i used to log into the live session. Should I create some kind of "temp' user name just to trick the installer? In that case will it create a home folder for this new user? What happens to all the config files etc on my 5GB home directory?

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:56 am**

If you click Next it should not prompt that user information, if it does it's a bug, but we cannot figure out where is the problem if you close the installer and don't provide the info we requested. AK-47 asked you something in the previous post you even quoted the post and you still didn't provide the info. In any case you should not close the installer... if you close the installer before it finishes the work we cannot guarantee anything, even before you should not have done that, if it worked it was only by accident.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:00 am**

minstall.log

Adrian wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:56 am If you click Next it should not prompt that user information, if it does it's a bug, but we cannot figure out where is the problem if you close the installer and don't provide the info we requested. AK-47 asked you something in the previous post you even quoted the post and you still didn't provide the info. In any case you should not close the installer... if you close the installer before it finishes the work we cannot guarantee anything, even before you should not have done that, if it worked it was only by accident.

I attached that minstall.log earlier - but here it is again. i wonder what I am doing that causes that prompt for username etc. The snapshot is a "personal" one . What else could it be? Iam choosing all the default options in the installer - am I overlooking some checkbox?

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:09 am**

So... where have you provided this info?

ls -als /home
grep -E '^UID_MIN|^UID_MAX' /etc/login.defs
getent passwd {1000..60000}

Also, like I mentioned that log is useless (not completely, we figured out that you closed the installer before finishing the installation) we need the log if you click Next and input the info required even bogus one if you are presented with User info (it shouldn't do that, but that's what we try to fix/figure out).

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:13 am**

R55, you should input your original name and password in the text fields to get the error, and hopefully that will be recorded in the logs.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:21 am**

asqwerth wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:13 am R55, you should input your original name and password in the text fields to get the error, and hopefully that will be recorded in the logs.

Its getting late here - Iam going to call it a night! Will try and get you this info over the next day or so. In the meantime maybe you can try installing a Personal Snapshot - burned on to usb with LUM. And try the installer. This feels like a design issue to me - highly unlikely to be specific to my thinkpad .

And , if it is handy, would love to get a .deb of the installer version 19.4 ( that version works for me !)

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:27 am**

rs55, While I understand your frustration, in order for us to help you with this problem this requires some co-operation on your end also. The 19.4 installer is not supported on MX 18.3 and may end up making your situation worse.

Yes, you provided the minstall.log, but I need the rest of the information as well.
Now, from the log you provided, it looks as if the installer had trouble picking up the user accounts on your particular setup.

Here are the commands I need you to run while inside the live snapshot:

Code: Select all

ls -als /home
grep -E '^UID_MIN|^UID_MAX' /etc/login.defs
getent passwd {1000..60000}

I need the output of all three of these commands so that I can work out why the installer isn't picking up your user accounts.

If you're having trouble copying from the terminal directly, you can save this to a script file (eg. script.sh) and run:

Code: Select all

sh script.sh > userout.txt

You can copy and attach the userout.txt file here the same way you did the log file.

You have now been requested 3 times to provide this information, so I won't be responding further unless this is provided.
The only exception is if you are having any trouble getting this information, in which case, please let me know.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:45 am**

rs55 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:21 am
asqwerth wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:13 am R55, you should input your original name and password in the text fields to get the error, and hopefully that will be recorded in the logs.
Its getting late here - Iam going to call it a night! Will try and get you this info over the next day or so. In the meantime maybe you can try installing a Personal Snapshot - burned on to usb with LUM. And try the installer. This feels like a design issue to me - highly unlikely to be specific to my thinkpad .

FWIW, that is exactly what I spent yesterday doing.

i don't think its specific to your thinkpad but it might be specific to some combination of stuff for your username or perhaps something else. It certainly bears investigating.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:54 am**

rs55 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:11 pm
dolphin_oracle wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:19 pm I want to say here that I've been working with several snapshots and personal snapshots today, and so far the latest version of the installer is working as intended. the user creation screen has not been offerred on personal snapshot installations, from either iso files or from live-USBs, on several different machines.

so maybe the bug rs55 encountered has been fixed.
dolphin - could you check what version of minstall you have? Thanks a lot.

19.5.2 is the one I used. I thought it was one of the 19.6's but it wasn't.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:56 am**

@rs55, can you give us some example usernames you have tried to enter on that page that have failed...possibly use a camera or the 'screenshot' app to capture the error message(s) that are generated when the usernames are rejected?

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:59 am**

quick question...does the demo account still exist on your personal snapshot?

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:09 pm**

AK-47 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:27 am rs55, While I understand your frustration, in order for us to help you with this problem this requires some co-operation on your end also. The 19.4 installer is not supported on MX 18.3 and may end up making your situation worse.

Yes, you provided the minstall.log, but I need the rest of the information as well.
Now, from the log you provided, it looks as if the installer had trouble picking up the user accounts on your particular setup.

Here are the commands I need you to run while inside the live snapshot:
Code: Select all
ls -als /home
grep -E '^UID_MIN|^UID_MAX' /etc/login.defs
getent passwd {1000..60000}
I need the output of all three of these commands so that I can work out why the installer isn't picking up your user accounts.

If you're having trouble copying from the terminal directly, you can save this to a script file (eg. script.sh) and run:
Code: Select all
sh script.sh > userout.txt
You can copy and attach the userout.txt file here the same way you did the log file.

You have now been requested 3 times to provide this information, so I won't be responding further unless this is provided.
The only exception is if you are having any trouble getting this information, in which case, please let me know.

OK attached is the file with your requests:

userout.txt

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:11 pm**

dolphin_oracle wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:59 am quick question...does the demo account still exist on your personal snapshot?

No - no Demo - just root and rs

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:24 pm**

dolphin_oracle wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:59 am quick question...does the demo account still exist on your personal snapshot?

One other thing: I dont check the box that says "preserve data in /home....". I dont have a separate /home partition . I am not exactly sure what this does - but I dont check the box.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:28 pm**

rs55 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:24 pm
dolphin_oracle wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:59 am quick question...does the demo account still exist on your personal snapshot?
One other thing: I dont check the box that says "preserve data in /home....". I dont have a separate /home partition . I am not exactly sure what this does - but I dont check the box.

My logic: My new snapshot/LUM may have included many changes to /home , which I want to install on the new machine. So , I dont want to preserve whatever old /home was on the new machine.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:33 pm**

rs55 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:40 am MX has a huge opportunity in front of it. <snipped for brevity> It is important to define your audience as you make changes to key components of the system - like the installer. After all if the installer is finicky - new users will just move on and miss out on the great MX experience.

<snippeted>

... if you make design choices that makes life a teeny bit easier for them while breaking important functionality for the average home user - you will be missing out on a huge potential audience. When it comes to trade-offs, I would suggest making it foolproof and consistent for the home user. The enthusiast crowd is in any event more sophisticated and probably don't need hand-holding.

The installer, in particular, is the main reason why I have promoted Linux Mint or Linux Lite for newbies who will be installing it themselves. When I do the installation on a newbie's computer myself, I choose MX!

I was one of those newbies who missed out on the great MX experience for a while precisely because of the installer being a confusing and scary thing. Granted I'm a technophobe anyway, from a race of technophobes (see my profile). But even people who are not so easily put off by technology are scared off by complicated stuff with warnings about wiping out the known universe if you make a bad choice, lol.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:40 pm**

rs55 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:28 pm
rs55 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:24 pm
dolphin_oracle wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:59 am quick question...does the demo account still exist on your personal snapshot?
One other thing: I dont check the box that says "preserve data in /home....". I dont have a separate /home partition . I am not exactly sure what this does - but I dont check the box.
My logic: My new snapshot/LUM may have included many changes to /home , which I want to install on the new machine. So , I dont want to preserve whatever old /home was on the new machine.

yep, I read you. I'm sure the guys are working on it, thanks for providing the extra info.

FWIW, its supposed to work, so just hang on. we may need additional info because right now you are the only one picking up the problem.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:26 pm**

Do you have a custom alias for ls? what is the output of "alias ls"?

The test for existence of preserved /home profile uses "ls" probably we need to fully specify it "/bin/ls" to make it more resilient, normally the installer is run in our live environment but if you run it in a custom preserved environment that might affect the results of such commands.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:31 pm**

Adrian wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:26 pm Do you have a custom alias for ls? what is the output of "alias ls"?

The test for existence of preserved /home profile uses "ls" probably we need to fully specify it "/bin/ls" to make it more resilient, normally the installer is run in our live environment but if you run it in a custom preserved environment that might affect the results of such commands.

> alias ls
alias ls='ls --color=auto'

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:33 pm**

that's probably not it, it's the regular ls alias we have for everybody...

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:56 pm**

Can you please give it another go:
https://github.com/MX-Linux/gazelle-ins ... _amd64.deb

Don't need to run the full installation, just let the program start and when it finishes loading you can close it and post here the /var/log/minstall.log file, I would like to see if the small change made the difference in the output of the command that test the presence of the snapshot folder I don't want to waste your time with a full installation.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:02 pm**

minstall.log

Adrian wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:56 pm Can you please give it another go:
https://github.com/MX-Linux/gazelle-ins ... _amd64.deb

Don't need to run the full installation, just let the program start and when it finishes loading you can close it and post here the /var/log/minstall.log file, I would like to see if the small change made the difference in the output of the command that test the presence of the snapshot folder I don't want to waste your time with a full installation.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:09 pm**

Adrian wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:56 pm Can you please give it another go:
https://github.com/MX-Linux/gazelle-ins ... _amd64.deb

Don't need to run the full installation, just let the program start and when it finishes loading you can close it and post here the /var/log/minstall.log file, I would like to see if the small change made the difference in the output of the command that test the presence of the snapshot folder I don't want to waste your time with a full installation.

Adrian:
WooHoo ! It worked!! So thrilled. Your "small change" has done the trick. You should get this 19.6-6 out as an upgrade . This is so great - finally this installer is working as it should. Thank you !!!

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:14 pm**

Thanks for sticking with the troubleshooting process! This was not easy to figure out. It was a combination of things, it worked before for you because there was a bug in code that AK-47 fixed, but that surfaced another bug that bit you.

That's why is better to fix a bug rather than use an old version that seems to work fine. Sometime this is a pain, but in the long run this is worth it.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:19 pm**

Adrian wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:14 pm Thanks for sticking with the troubleshooting process! This was not easy to figure out. It was a combination of things, it worked before for you because there was a bug in code that AK-47 fixed, but that surfaced another bug that bit you.

That's why is better to fix a bug rather than use an old version that seems to work fine. Sometime this is a pain, but in the long run this is worth it.

Yes - I understand. These software bugs are fiendishly difficult to flush out. But this one in particular has made a huge difference to me - so thanks again.
As I have said in numerous posts - I think the biggest standout feature of MX is snapshot/LUM and installer. Together this makes it so convenient to install your fully configured system on multiple machines - or on the same machine in the event of a nasty virus or update or user-error. And it takes all of 5 minutes to install my 8 GB system.
This is far more elegant than clonezilla or timeshift ( which I tried in the distant past and did not like).

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:28 pm**

Just a word of caution, snapshot is not fully meant as a backup system, for example by default it excludes VirtualBox folders because those make the resulting too big, we'll also exclude /timeshift folder too for the same reason. But as long as you are familiar with these parameters it should work well.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:29 pm**

dolphin_oracle wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:40 pm
rs55 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:28 pm
rs55 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:24 pm

One other thing: I dont check the box that says "preserve data in /home....". I dont have a separate /home partition . I am not exactly sure what this does - but I dont check the box.
My logic: My new snapshot/LUM may have included many changes to /home , which I want to install on the new machine. So , I dont want to preserve whatever old /home was on the new machine.
yep, I read you. I'm sure the guys are working on it, thanks for providing the extra info.

FWIW, its supposed to work, so just hang on. we may need additional info because right now you are the only one picking up the problem.

Dolphin: Thank you as well for your helpful responses! Really happy to have this fixed. By the way, I really enjoyed your video tutorials - watched most of them and learned a lot, when I first started out with MX and AntiX. Its been a while - you should make a new video!

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:32 pm**

Adrian wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:28 pm Just a word of caution, snapshot is not fully meant as a backup system, for example by default it excludes VirtualBox folders because those make the resulting too big, we'll also exclude /timeshift folder too for the same reason. But as long as you are familiar with these parameters it should work well.

Yes - I am aware it excludes the timeshift folder ( a good default choice - my timeshifts are quite large). I have tweaked the exclusions file - I also exclude my personal data folder ( which is large).
I dont use virtual box.
I think it works brilliantly as a backup system. I do keep a separate backup of my personal data folder using lucky backup.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:37 pm**

Yeah, I agree, I don't know how other distros do their snapshots, but antiX and MX have this great feature of creating "general" and "personal" snapshots, both from Live and installed systems.

MX the "as you like it" distro :)

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:50 pm**

Adrian wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:37 pm Yeah, I agree, I don't know how other distros do their snapshots, but antiX and MX have this great feature of creating "general" and "personal" snapshots, both from Live and installed systems.

MX the "as you like it" distro :)

Wow - I was rejoicing too soon. I re-enabled my MX and AntiX repos and ran an update. minstall still on version 19.6-6. Then ran snapshot and LUM and tried to install on my second machine.
Guess what - got that last screen ( username screen)

minstall.log

again !!

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:58 pm**

rs55 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:50 pm
Adrian wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:37 pm Yeah, I agree, I don't know how other distros do their snapshots, but antiX and MX have this great feature of creating "general" and "personal" snapshots, both from Live and installed systems.

MX the "as you like it" distro :)
Wow - I was rejoicing too soon. I re-enabled my MX and AntiX repos and ran an update. minstall still on version 19.6-6. Then ran snapshot and LUM and tried to install on my second machine.
Guess what - got that last screen ( username screen)minstall.log again !!

Maybe a false alarm. I checked minstall --version and it said 19.6-6 ( after I upgraded the system) - so I assumed it was fine on the snapshot. But as I said the install failed. Now, on the new machine I reinstalled minstall 19.6-6 again . And it worked !

Not sure what is going on .

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:02 pm**

How frustrating!! But I am glad you're persisting, thank you for that

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:33 pm**

rs55 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:58 pm
rs55 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:50 pm
Adrian wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:37 pm Yeah, I agree, I don't know how other distros do their snapshots, but antiX and MX have this great feature of creating "general" and "personal" snapshots, both from Live and installed systems.

MX the "as you like it" distro :)
Wow - I was rejoicing too soon. I re-enabled my MX and AntiX repos and ran an update. minstall still on version 19.6-6. Then ran snapshot and LUM and tried to install on my second machine.
Guess what - got that last screen ( username screen)minstall.log again !!
Maybe a false alarm. I checked minstall --version and it said 19.6-6 ( after I upgraded the system) - so I assumed it was fine on the snapshot. But as I said the install failed. Now, on the new machine I reinstalled minstall 19.6-6 again . And it worked !

Not sure what is going on .

Yup - I even reinstalled the 19.6-6 before running snapshot. It still fails. Snapshot is doing something to the installer !

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:52 pm**

Snapshot installs the installer if not installed. If it's installed it doesn't touch it the only thing relevant to installer is that it copies a /usr/share/applications/minstall.desktop to the Desktop. So if you don't have the installer installed on your system installer will install the installer from the repo (which is not the ~6 one) but otherwise I don't know what would the snapshot do to mess up the installer.

Let's drop it for today because everybody is tired of this, at some point maybe you'll provide very detailed steps to replicate the problem and detailed steps that you use to fix the problem (since it sounds like it works for you at least in some instances) that would give us more insight about what goes wrong on your system.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:45 pm**

Adrian wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:52 pm Snapshot installs the installer if not installed. If it's installed it doesn't touch it the only thing relevant to installer is that it copies a /usr/share/applications/minstall.desktop to the Desktop. So if you don't have the installer installed on your system installer will install the installer from the repo (which is not the ~6 one) but otherwise I don't know what would the snapshot do to mess up the installer.

Let's drop it for today because everybody is tired of this, at some point maybe you'll provide very detailed steps to replicate the problem and detailed steps that you use to fix the problem (since it sounds like it works for you at least in some instances) that would give us more insight about what goes wrong on your system.

Sure , thanks. Will 19.6-6 get into the repo soon?

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:00 pm**

No, because it's not fully tested and D_O reported some issues that need to be investigated.

Posted: **Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:10 am**

Adrian wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:00 pm No, because it's not fully tested and D_O reported some issues that need to be investigated.

OK thanks. Just FYI, I have reverted my systems back to how it was a couple of weeks ago ( installer version 19.4) - everything works fine. I'll wait till the new installer is fully debugged and stable before trying it again. I think 19.6-6 is a step in the right direction - but seems to intermittently not work.

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