MX Linux Forum

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:39 am**

Got new HP laptop with Win 11 Home. Installed MX, and all went well. Grub menu shows MX as normal including the Windows entry. MX runs fine and restarts with the correct grub screen. If you select Win 11 and run it once, the grug screen never returns, and it boot directly into Windows. In the bios, only the Windows EFI can be selected for booting.

The only way to get back into MX is to interrupt the boot process and go to the Windows repair and recovery where you can find the MX grub EFI file and start MX.

I know I'm not giving very much detail here, but whenever Win 11 starts up it picks its own EFI file and makes that the only one that can be designated for bootup.

Any ideas? Seen this before? Secure Boot is turned off. Can't find any mention of FastBoot.

AMD Bios...

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 6:32 am**

With all help requests, as per forum rules (which, if you haven't, please read), please share your full Quick System Info, do not edit.
If need be, you can do this using the LiveUSB, thanks.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 8:55 am**

If you haven't done so already, disable Fast Start up in Win 11.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 10:50 am**

Yep.

Rovercar wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:39 am... Can't find any mention of FastBoot. ..

Right-click the Start menu => Windows Terminal (Admin).

Issue:

Code: Select all

powercfg /h off

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 11:47 am**

Thanks, Kermit. Will look again, but I've fallen out of love with this laptop. I just did the same installation on a desktop system, and never had tiniest problem.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 12:43 pm**

Rovercar wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2024 11:47 am Thanks, Kermit. Will look again, but I've fallen out of love with this laptop. I just did the same installation on a desktop system, and never had tiniest problem.

The thing is that you haven't told us anything pertinent about that laptop, so anything we can suggest is conjecture. For us to continue, you need to post the output from the QSI utility. The Quick System Info (QSI) utility is located in MX Tools and its output is automatically formatted for use here in the forum. Run the QSI utility, click “Copy for Forum” at the bottom and then just paste it here in your thread.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:54 pm**

"MX boot options" has the ability to "Manage UEFI Boot Options", which allows one to choose which EFI boot entry is started by default. Select an MX entry instead of "Windows Boot Manager". The same should be doable from your firmware menus but how to activate and navigate this varies for each brand. Can be used from a live session, too (it is a friendly/GUI front-end to set EFI boot variables).

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 2:06 pm**

Boot with your MX Linux USB and run Boot Options. Click 'Manage UEFI Boot Options' and see what it shows. Should be similar to below.

If the 'Windows Boot Manager' is at the top click on it. Then click 'Move Down', then 'Close', then 'Apply' and finnally 'Close'.

Reboot. The Grub menu should return.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 2:26 pm**

This is becoming a common issue and believe me, when a machine's BIOS is sold out to Windows, this very thing will happen every time the Windows system is booted. I've tried all sorts of things and none of them worked.

After disabling every possible thing in BIOS and in Windows that could potentially lead towards stealing the top boot position, from using a single MVME with dual OS's to using to using 2x NVME's with MX Linux in the highest preferred NVME slot and Windows on the 2nd slot, the BIOS will always elevate the Windows bootloader over the Grub bootloader every single time Windows is run.

This is an issue that has to be put to the manufacturer as a bug and addressed with a BIOS update that stops Windows being given top priority and overwriting the Bios Boot Sequence every time it's run.

Oh, and it happens with Windows 10 as well as Windows 11.

We have to push back HARD on all PCB and Laptop manufacturers who implement this crap to stop this rising BS from happening. It's not up to us to get a signed bootloader key loaded into the BIOS, that's not the Manufacturers decision to make because the moment we purchase their hardware, it becomes ours and we get to choose what we run on it.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 2:33 pm**

m_pav wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2024 2:26 pm...
This is an issue that has to be put to the manufacturer as a bug and addressed with a BIOS update that stops Windows being given top priority and overwriting the Bios Boot Sequence every time it's run.
...
We have to push back HARD on all PCB and Laptop manufacturers who implement this crap to stop this rising BS from happening. It's not up to us to get a signed bootloader key loaded into the BIOS, that's not the Manufacturers decision to make because the moment we purchase their hardware, it becomes ours and we get to choose what we run on it.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 2:57 pm**

I have seen a few posts elsewhere that advocated setting the Windows Boot Manager entry to 'inactive' slows/stops this meddling. I have not tested this to verify.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 3:01 pm**

On both my HP 15 and HP 17, as soon as you disable Secure Boot in the bios, you are asked if you intend to install another OS. It seems to be a one or the other choice. You indicate Yes and you can install whatever you want with no hindrances. I don't dual boot anymore because of the disruptions that Windows Update can cause. It would not surprise me at all if dual booting Windows / Linux is no longer possible on HP computers

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:09 pm**

m_pav wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2024 2:26 pm This is becoming a common issue and believe me, when a machine's BIOS is sold out to Windows, this very thing will happen every time the Windows system is booted. I've tried all sorts of things and none of them worked.

After disabling every possible thing in BIOS and in Windows that could potentially lead towards stealing the top boot position, from using a single MVME with dual OS's to using to using 2x NVME's with MX Linux in the highest preferred NVME slot and Windows on the 2nd slot, the BIOS will always elevate the Windows bootloader over the Grub bootloader every single time Windows is run.

This is an issue that has to be put to the manufacturer as a bug and addressed with a BIOS update that stops Windows being given top priority and overwriting the Bios Boot Sequence every time it's run.

Oh, and it happens with Windows 10 as well as Windows 11.

We have to push back HARD on all PCB and Laptop manufacturers who implement this crap to stop this rising BS from happening. It's not up to us to get a signed bootloader key loaded into the BIOS, that's not the Manufacturers decision to make because the moment we purchase their hardware, it becomes ours and we get to choose what we run on it.

What you've posted here is exactly what I have concluded to be the case. First of all, I don't need to post a printout of every aspect of my machine to see if anyone else has encountered this issue. It's a new HP laptop with AMD processor and Windows 11 with MX. I appreciate the responses I have received, but I have already tried all of the suggested cures, and while I thought they would work (especially the MX EFI tool), they do not. Windows 11 always overwrites the EFI settings. Frankly, it's not worth dealing with issues like this that cannot be solved without re-writing Win 11 or the machine's bios, so I've just done a factory cloud reset, and it's going back to Amazon. This is a hardware or firmware bug, not a configuration issue. Also, updating the bios from HP showed no improvement. So, it's back in the box, and I'll stick with my old Acer 792 until it melts down.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:17 pm**

A general thanks to all who responded to my question. Responses were numerous and well reasoned, but the issue is due to the bios and how Windows 11 claims sole right to alter the EFI settings each time it starts. Many of the fixes suggested are good generic fixes, but are not effective with this new HP laptop, and it may be due to its AMD processor having its own bios.

However, I've been doing Linux since you had to load a dozen floppies just to be able to see the mouse move a little arrow around the screen (and that was a eureka moment). I don't need to waste my time with this particular issue, so the laptop's just going back to Amazon while my Acer 792 soldiers on.

Than you to everyone who responded.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 6:16 pm**

Rovercar wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:17 pm A general thanks to all who responded to my question. Responses were numerous and well reasoned, but the issue is due to the bios and how Windows 11 claims sole right to alter the EFI settings each time it starts. Many of the fixes suggested are good generic fixes, but are not effective with this new HP laptop, and it may be due to its AMD processor having its own bios.

However, I've been doing Linux since you had to load a dozen floppies just to be able to see the mouse move a little arrow around the screen (and that was a eureka moment). I don't need to waste my time with this particular issue, so the laptop's just going back to Amazon while my Acer 792 soldiers on.

Than you to everyone who responded.

Fair enough. OTHO, you missed the chance to let us know what system this is, b/c not providing the QSI "Quick System Info",
does not help others to identify a laptop which may provide some challenges, to prepare for Dual-boot.
Also I'm not convinced that there are no ways to have a peaceful coexistence setup, even after a full Windows update.
Couple of data points:
* always use a separate ESP dedicated for MX Linux to be used, this would prevent Windows from detecting the Windows -ESP was touched by something else.
* always use only free space on the drive for installing Linux which comes after any Windows prepared partitions, so windows would not see the Linux partions as a challenge to adjust, in case more space is needed for Windows
* do disable Intel Raid/RST ( or whatever those matkteting names are), b/c otherwise Windows might make it such that Linux boot partitions are not seen anymore by the EFI subsystem, and EFI might remove any UEFI boot option which appears invalid.
* if still UEFI Boot options do not list MX Linux efi-loader entries, after Windows boot or upgrade, do consider rEFInd setup into the Widows-ESP,
as it provides some robustness, when it comes to missing UEFI boot options, b/c rEFInd does actively scan for all efi-boot loaders on all detected ESP,
which would than provide a GRUB menu and further provides an alternative to GRUB kernel entries to boot directly into the detected linux kernels, so by this bypassing the GRUB menu.
* perhaps last point, there is a GRUB2WIN, which prepares a Windows boot menu, where you can select to boot into a GRUB (installed on WIndows),
which offers to add a chainloader entry to boot into a Linux GRUB menu.
Something similare what the MX LiveUSB boot menu is offering under Boot Rescue menu to scan for efi-loader / or GRUB menus, and have the found GRUB menu shown ready to boot into MX Linux.
***
ttfn

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 7:03 pm**

@Rovercar wrote:

Windows 11 always overwrites the EFI settings. Frankly, it's not worth dealing with issues like this that cannot be solved without re-writing Win 11 or the machine's bios, so I've just done a factory cloud reset, and it's going back to Amazon.

It's absolutely imperative to use Windows' own disk management tools to shrink its partitions in order to create the space for a Linux install. If you don't and use some other tool like GParted instead, Windows will do exactly what you described here because it will see that space as corrupted and attempt to restore order.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 9:14 pm**

Rovercar wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:09 pm First of all, I don't need to post a printout of every aspect of my machine to see if anyone else has encountered this issue. It's a new HP laptop with AMD processor and Windows 11 with MX.

Knowing at least the make and exact model helps me do behind-the-scenes research to locate the user/service manual and actionable social media tech commentary.

Very often, I find details that are not well discussed on the interwebs, such as 'marketing-speak' names for things already more well-known. The RAID configuration of the SATA Controller is a glaring example. Then some time later it ends up as an edit to my how-to guide ‘Dual Boot: MX Linux & Windows-Installation Guide‘ updated November 11, 2024, so the next persons have a much easier time. This aspect has shown a huge payback to the MX Linux community at large as it is profusely illustrated and step-by-step portions are highly proofread (over time). Started at 4 pages in 2021; now 36 pages.

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2024 11:31 pm**

I've got an issue going on with Gigabyte right now, which is why I was so hot on the subject in my first post. I raised a support request about my bios boot settings being overwritten whenever I boot into Windows and claimed it was a BIOS bug.

Their response totally ignored my request (as expected) and replied with the following.
We do not test dual operating system in one storage device. However, the Windows Boot Manager is prioritize in the BIOS.

Ironic that I never said I had windows on the same drive, they came to that conclusion all by themselves.

Anyway, I responded telling them the issue is identical whether a single drive has multiple OS's or when multiple drives with differing OS's are fitted, booting Windows overwrites the BIOS settings chosen by the user. I advised I have done thousands of Linux installations over the last 23 years and I have never seen such an ugly bug that would overwrite a users hand-set BIOS boot preference simply by booting one of the OS's available on that machine. Please provide a fixed BIOS that respects a users boot device choice.

I'm still waiting to hear back

Posted: **Tue Nov 26, 2024 9:49 pm**

@fehlix * always use a separate ESP dedicated for MX Linux to be used, this would prevent Windows from detecting the Windows -ESP was touched by something else.

This one thing done has saved me from alot of problems in the past, I think it was you fehlix that you mentioned this before start of this year, anyway thanks for the advice back then fehlix.

Posted: **Wed Nov 27, 2024 10:25 am**

I quit dual-booting with Windows partially because of this, mostly because Window's entire system behavior, ethics, etc. disgusts me.

always use a separate ESP dedicated for MX Linux to be used, this would prevent Windows from detecting the Windows -ESP was touched by something else.
b/c rEFInd does actively scan for all efi-boot loaders on all detected ESP

Sure fehlix stated that in the past.

I bookmarked fehlix's post just in case I ever want to leave that exclusionary system usurping antitrust garbage on a computer.
Not sure, but I think it may help to leave the original Windows UEFI (whatever it's called) partition intact for potential BIOS upgrades.

On a more positive note, it's good to know that it can be done – thanks.

Posted: **Wed Nov 27, 2024 2:20 pm**

MXRobo wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 10:25 am I quit dual-booting with Windows partially because of this, mostly because Window's entire system behavior, ethics, etc. disgusts me.
(..)

Yeah..

Dump it, c't Dutch computer-magazine august-september said.

Posted: **Wed Nov 27, 2024 5:48 pm**

Could have been somebody else wrote that last year, to whoever it was Thanks
This new machine have to have Windows on it for the car GPS updates, funny thing is that I was looking throu the fine print apparently program (for GPS) written on Linux then turned into closed source for Microsoft.
Windows 11 has some good features but is spoilt by Microsoft, money money money harvesting attitude.

I treat each and every installed OS as it's own on it's own, meaning only share swap all other partitions (efi/root/home) each distro gets it's own so that way any distro installed is it's own not relying on any other partition/distro entry in case an install gets removed, no disruption to worry about especially with Windows efi.

MX Linux Forum

Dual Boot Grub Works Until You Run Win11 Once, then no grub.

Dual Boot Grub Works Until You Run Win11 Once, then no grub.

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