Requesting update file for PATH (21.3 Wildflower Xfce)(and now mx25)

[Jakob77]

CharlesV

Okay, so I misunderstood but it has to be a point of view that also belongs in the discussion.
As I recall it mint has it first and ubuntu last.
Maybe a developer or a guy with a very slow disk wants to test or use a bin_first folder in PATH
If there are other possible arguments for it I don't know them.
In my mind it could still be a little more risky, and therefore I don't suggest it for ~/bin
Another good thing about having more folders prepared for PATH in ~/.config/xfce4/xinitrc is that it will likely be more easy to edit safely.

Additionally, whatever a system update puts onto my system, I strongly object to putting stuff willy-nilly into my ~/.config directory. Doing this would mean getting onto a very slippery slope.

Or as any Englishman will tell you, my $HOME is my castle!

I think we have to trust the developers to put good files into ~/.config
There are already plenty of files in your home folder to start with after a clean install.
I doubt you would notice one file more or less, and if the file comes with an update it can be done so it won't overwrite your existing file, if you already have one.
We are different and dynamic but when I upgrade to MX23 I don't plan to restore one single file to ~/.config
I am happy to let MX built and restore that tower in my castle. (Only possible exception I can find today is: ~/.config/xfce4/xinitrc ) And I look forward to see what new defaults the developers has to offer next time. :-)

[figueroa]

I'm going to be more negative about the idea. The vast majority of users don't need or want a ~/bin directory. But, if a user does have a home directory "bin" sub-directory, including it in the path has already been provided for.

MX-17 (or earlier) through MX-23 invoke a PATH directive in .profile to include users' personal bin directories in the path by default and it looks like:

Code: Select all

grep PATH .profile
# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
    PATH="$HOME/bin:$PATH"
# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
    PATH="$HOME/.local/bin:$PATH"

To check your own PATH variable, you can use the following command:

Code: Select all

env | grep PATH

[Jakob77]

I'm going to be more negative about the idea. The vast majority of users don't need or want a ~/bin directory.

In my opinion that is not being negative. It just gives an opportunity to point out that if we were developing MX by voting among users it would only be a success if the users were capable of understanding that it can be about a lot more than covering their own personal needs at the moment.

But, if a user does have a home directory "bin" sub-directory, including it in the path has already been provided for.

MX-17 (or earlier) through MX-23 invoke a PATH directive in .profile to include users' personal bin directories in the path by default and it looks like:

Code: Select all

grep PATH .profile
# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
    PATH="$HOME/bin:$PATH"
# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
    PATH="$HOME/.local/bin:$PATH"

To check your own PATH variable, you can use the following command:

Code: Select all

env | grep PATH

Have you tested if it works.?


In MX21.3 in ~/.profile I find this:

Code: Select all

# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
if [ -d "$HOME/bin" ] ; then
    PATH="$HOME/bin:$PATH"
fi

# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
if [ -d "$HOME/.local/bin" ] ; then
    PATH="$HOME/.local/bin:$PATH"
fi

But it doesn't work.

[j2mcgreg]

@Jakob77 wrote:

In my opinion that is not being negative. It just gives an opportunity to point out that if we were developing MX by voting among users it would only be a success if the users were capable of understanding that it can be about a lot more than covering their own personal needs at the moment.

As has been stated ad infinitum, we are not changing the way that MX is developed.

[Eadwine Rose]

"if we were developing MX by voting among users"

And since that is not the case, your whole point becomes moot.

[thomasl]

Additionally, whatever a system update puts onto my system, I strongly object to putting stuff willy-nilly into my ~/.config directory. Doing this would mean getting onto a very slippery slope.

Or as any Englishman will tell you, my $HOME is my castle!

I think we have to trust the developers to put good files into ~/.config
There are already plenty of files in your home folder to start with after a clean install.
I doubt you would notice one file more or less, and if the file comes with an update it can be done so it won't overwrite your existing file, if you already have one.
We are different and dynamic but when I upgrade to MX23 I don't plan to restore one single file to ~/.config
I am happy to let MX built and restore that tower in my castle. (Only possible exception I can find today is: ~/.config/xfce4/xinitrc ) And I look forward to see what new defaults the developers has to offer next time. :-)

As long we're talking about the general idea that certain files are copied by default into a new, empty user's $HOME, I agree (though I think this specific request shouldn't be in that category).

However, I've understood your proposal to mean that such a file would be copied into an user's existing $HOME with a system update and it's this I am strongly opposing, even with the added caveat that an existing file won't be overwritten... I simply don't want new stuff in my existing $HOME behind my back and if this or a future version of MX would start doing that it would certainly make me think again.

[anticapitalista]

MX (and antiX) has never and never will put any files/folders into an existing $HOME
It is our policy.

[CharlesV]

And let me be clear, (since was dragged into this again..), as I have said before, I am not opposed to having the ~/bin folder, and I am also not opposed to having that at the front of the path... and I think for *some users* it would be something good!

However, I do NOT believe that it would be of benefit for many users, and frankly I think only one more tripping spot for some folks. The MX Dev's show a lot of wisdom on HOW they make it all work, and I think *they* have their fingers on the right pulse!

I believe, if someone is knowledgeable enough to "work that folder and method" ... then they should be knowledgeable enough to create it and understand what they are doing here. ( This IS Linux after all!! ) The structure of a good framework is a serious benefit here, and adding more only makes it more complex, which is not good. (imo)

[thomasl]

@CharlesV Full ACK. If somebody knows enough to create and use a ~/bin, they also can take care of adding it to $PATH wherever they think it fits.

(As it happens I do have a ~/bin and I have added it to the front of my $PATH, not least because some commands in /usr/bin and elsewhere need some "massaging" which I do with short same-name scripts in ~/bin.)

[Jakob77]

j2mcgreg

Okay, I don't think I have seen that, and I didn't even know there was a wish for it, or that you had asked about it.



Eadwine Rose

Well, I can still hope for a responsible way of thinking, requesting and answering in the forum culture anyway.



thomasl

Oh, my horse is not so high. I believe it already happens for instance in Firefox and Thunderbird.
But it's good we don't have a rolling upgrade then, so we had to wait for many years before we could get the upgrade. ;-)
Wonder what .local/bin is for.



anticapitalista

Okay, that should make the subject fade out.
That kind of policy can perhaps be a good excuse in MX 21 but not in MX 23



CharlesV

I believe you have forgotten how much we struggled to find the right code for it.
By the way thank you for that again.