Responses to Coming changes in impending MX 25 release.

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DeepDayze
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:34 pm

Re: Responses to Coming changes in impending MX 25 release.

#201 Post by DeepDayze »

Wish Debian made it easy to just select the init system you want. Shame that most major DE's have made systemd a hard dependency but that's a topic for another thread.
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thinkpadx
Posts: 680
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:34 pm

Re: Responses to Coming changes in impending MX 25 release.

#202 Post by thinkpadx »

i realize i am a bit early on this - but - in the past i always installed the RC2 version and it was always auto updated to the final release - with relevant updates. will it be the same? i assume it is normal; but ust asking. and yes the rc2's have all been clean installs. thanks.
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daemonspudguy
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:12 pm

Re: Responses to Coming changes in impending MX 25 release.

#203 Post by daemonspudguy »

DeepDayze wrote: Wed Aug 13, 2025 2:09 pm Shame that most major DE's have made systemd a hard dependency but that's a topic for another thread.
That's a GNOMEism. KDE, LXQt, Xfce, and MATE all don't require systemd and aren't planning on making it a requirement.
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siamhie
Global Moderator
Posts: 3679
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:45 pm

Re: Responses to Coming changes in impending MX 25 release.

#204 Post by siamhie »

daemonspudguy wrote: Thu Aug 14, 2025 12:32 pm
DeepDayze wrote: Wed Aug 13, 2025 2:09 pm Shame that most major DE's have made systemd a hard dependency but that's a topic for another thread.
That's a GNOMEism. KDE, LXQt, Xfce, and MATE all don't require systemd and aren't planning on making it a requirement.
It may not be a requirement but Deb13 is going with systemd.

Code: Select all

siamhie@deb13:~$ inxi -Fxxxra
System:
  Host: deb13 Kernel: 6.12.41+deb13-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc
    v: 14.2.0 clocksource: tsc avail: hpet,acpi_pm
    parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.12.41+deb13-amd64
    root=UUID=7c01aab0-7871-43da-a863-4377a1881a09 ro quiet
  Desktop: Xfce v: 4.20.1 tk: Gtk v: 3.24.48 wm: xfwm4 v: 4.20.0
    with: xfce4-panel tools: light-locker vt: 7 dm: LightDM v: 1.32.0
    Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 13 (trixie)
Machine:
  Type: Desktop Mobo: Micro-Star model: B550-A PRO (MS-7C56) v: 2.0
    serial: <superuser required> uuid: <superuser required> UEFI: American
    Megatrends LLC. v: A.F0 date: 10/11/2023
CPU:
  Info: model: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Zen 3+ gen: 3
    level: v3 note: check built: 2022 process: TSMC n6 (7nm) family: 0x19 (25)
    model-id: 0x21 (33) stepping: 2 microcode: 0xA201210
  Topology: cpus: 1x dies: 1 clusters: 1 cores: 16 threads: 32 tpc: 2
    smt: enabled cache: L1: 1024 KiB desc: d-16x32 KiB; i-16x32 KiB L2: 8 MiB
    desc: 16x512 KiB L3: 64 MiB desc: 2x32 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 3397 min/max: 550/5084 boost: disabled scaling:
    driver: amd-pstate-epp governor: powersave cores: 1: 3397 2: 3397 3: 3397
    4: 3397 5: 3397 6: 3397 7: 3397 8: 3397 9: 3397 10: 3397 11: 3397 12: 3397
    13: 3397 14: 3397 15: 3397 16: 3397 17: 3397 18: 3397 19: 3397 20: 3397
    21: 3397 22: 3397 23: 3397 24: 3397 25: 3397 26: 3397 27: 3397 28: 3397
    29: 3397 30: 3397 31: 3397 32: 3397 bogomips: 217602
  Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm
  Vulnerabilities:
  Type: gather_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: indirect_target_selection status: Not affected
  Type: itlb_multihit status: Not affected
  Type: l1tf status: Not affected
  Type: mds status: Not affected
  Type: meltdown status: Not affected
  Type: mmio_stale_data status: Not affected
  Type: reg_file_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: retbleed status: Not affected
  Type: spec_rstack_overflow mitigation: Safe RET
  Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via
    prctl
  Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer
    sanitization
  Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Retpolines; IBPB: conditional; IBRS_FW;
    STIBP: always-on; RSB filling; PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected; BHI: Not
    affected
  Type: srbds status: Not affected
  Type: tsa status: Vulnerable: Clear CPU buffers attempted, no microcode
  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
Graphics:
  Device-1: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Navi 22 [Radeon RX 6700/6700
    XT/6750 XT / 6800M/6850M XT] vendor: Tul / PowerColor driver: amdgpu
    v: kernel arch: RDNA-2 code: Navi-2x process: TSMC n7 (7nm) built: 2020-22
    pcie: gen: 4 speed: 16 GT/s lanes: 16 ports: active: DP-3 empty: DP-1,
    DP-2, HDMI-A-1, Writeback-1 bus-ID: 0b:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:73df
    class-ID: 0300
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.16 compositor: xfwm4 v: 4.20.0 driver:
    X: loaded: amdgpu unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,radeon,vesa dri: radeonsi
    gpu: amdgpu display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 2560x1440 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 678x382mm (26.69x15.04")
    s-diag: 778mm (30.64")
  Monitor-1: DP-3 mapped: DisplayPort-2 model: HP X27q serial: 6CM14703M6
    built: 2021 res: mode: 2560x1440 hz: 165 scale: 100% (1) dpi: 109 gamma: 1.2
    size: 597x336mm (23.5x13.23") diag: 685mm (27") ratio: 16:9 modes:
    max: 2560x1440 min: 720x400
  API: EGL v: 1.5 hw: drv: amd radeonsi platforms: device: 0 drv: radeonsi
    device: 1 drv: swrast gbm: drv: kms_swrast surfaceless: drv: radeonsi x11:
    drv: radeonsi inactive: wayland
  API: OpenGL v: 4.6 compat-v: 4.5 vendor: amd mesa v: 25.0.7-2 glx-v: 1.4
    direct-render: yes renderer: AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT (radeonsi navi22 LLVM
    19.1.7 DRM 3.61 6.12.41+deb13-amd64) device-ID: 1002:73df
    memory: 11.72 GiB unified: no
  Info: Tools: api: eglinfo,glxinfo de: xfce4-display-settings gpu: lact
    x11: xdriinfo, xdpyinfo, xprop, xrandr
Audio:
  Device-1: Creative Labs CA0132 Sound Core3D [Sound Blaster Recon3D /
    Z-Series BlasterX AE-5 Plus] driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: gen: 1
    speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 bus-ID: 05:00.0 chip-ID: 1102:0012 class-ID: 0403
  Device-2: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Navi 21/23 HDMI/DP Audio
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: gen: 4 speed: 16 GT/s lanes: 16
    bus-ID: 0b:00.1 chip-ID: 1002:ab28 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.12.41+deb13-amd64 status: kernel-api
    tools: alsactl,alsamixer,amixer
  Server-1: PulseAudio v: 17.0 status: active tools: pacat,pactl,pavucontrol
Network:
  Message: No PCI device data found.
  Device-1: NetGear Wireless_Device driver: mt7921u type: USB rev: 3.2
    speed: 5 Gb/s lanes: 1 mode: 3.2 gen-1x1 bus-ID: 4-1:2 chip-ID: 0846:9060
    class-ID: 0000 serial: 000000000
  IF: wlx54077d7f771b state: up mac: 54:07:7d:7f:77:1b
  Info: services: NetworkManager, systemd-timesyncd, wpa_supplicant
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 8.64 TiB used: 5.23 GiB (0.1%)
  SMART Message: Required tool smartctl not installed. Check --recommends
  ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 maj-min: 259:3 vendor: Western Digital
    model: WDS500G1X0E-00AFY0 size: 465.76 GiB block-size: physical: 512 B
    logical: 512 B speed: 63.2 Gb/s lanes: 4 tech: SSD serial: 213434802558
    fw-rev: 613000WD temp: 38.9 C scheme: GPT
  ID-2: /dev/nvme1n1 maj-min: 259:0 vendor: Western Digital
    model: WDS500G3XHC-00SJG0 size: 465.76 GiB block-size: physical: 512 B
    logical: 512 B speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 tech: SSD serial: 204174800338
    fw-rev: 102000WD temp: 35.9 C scheme: GPT
  ID-3: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Seagate model: ST8000DM004-2CX188
    size: 7.28 TiB block-size: physical: 4096 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s
    tech: HDD rpm: 5425 serial: ZR12HWX3 fw-rev: 0001 scheme: GPT
  ID-4: /dev/sdb maj-min: 8:16 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 870 EVO 500GB
    size: 465.76 GiB block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s
    tech: SSD serial: S62ANZFR604378W fw-rev: 1B6Q scheme: GPT
Partition:
  ID-1: / raw-size: 232.88 GiB size: 228.17 GiB (97.98%) used: 5.2 GiB (2.3%)
    fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme1n1p2 maj-min: 259:2
  ID-2: /boot/efi raw-size: 779 MiB size: 777.5 MiB (99.80%)
    used: 32.4 MiB (4.2%) fs: vfat dev: /dev/nvme0n1p1 maj-min: 259:4
Swap:
  Kernel: swappiness: 60 (default) cache-pressure: 100 (default) zswap: no
  ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 64 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2
    dev: /dev/sdb2 maj-min: 8:18
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 31.4 C mobo: N/A gpu: amdgpu temp: 46.0 C
    mem: 48.0 C
  Fan Speeds (rpm): N/A gpu: amdgpu fan: 799
Repos:
  Packages: pm: dpkg pkgs: 1543 libs: 947 tools: apt,apt-get,nala,synaptic
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ trixie main non-free-firmware
    2: deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ trixie main non-free-firmware
    3: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security trixie-security main non-free-firmware
    4: deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security trixie-security main non-free-firmware
    5: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ trixie-updates main non-free-firmware
    6: deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ trixie-updates main non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/extrepo_librewolf.sources
    1: deb [arch=amd64 arm64] https://repo.librewolf.net librewolf main
Info:
  Memory: total: 32 GiB available: 31.27 GiB used: 1.33 GiB (4.3%)
  Processes: 448 Power: uptime: 13m states: freeze,mem,disk suspend: deep
    avail: s2idle wakeups: 0 hibernate: platform avail: shutdown, reboot,
    suspend, test_resume image: 12.48 GiB
    services: upowerd,xfce4-power-manager Init: systemd v: 257
    default: graphical tool: systemctl
  Compilers: N/A Shell: Bash v: 5.2.37 running-in: xfce4-terminal
    inxi: 3.3.38
This is my Fluxbox . There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My Fluxbox is my best friend. It is my life.
I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my Fluxbox is useless. Without my Fluxbox, I am useless.
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User avatar
daemonspudguy
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:12 pm

Re: Responses to Coming changes in impending MX 25 release.

#205 Post by daemonspudguy »

siamhie wrote: Thu Aug 14, 2025 1:20 pm
daemonspudguy wrote: Thu Aug 14, 2025 12:32 pm
DeepDayze wrote: Wed Aug 13, 2025 2:09 pm Shame that most major DE's have made systemd a hard dependency but that's a topic for another thread.
That's a GNOMEism. KDE, LXQt, Xfce, and MATE all don't require systemd and aren't planning on making it a requirement.
It may not be a requirement but Deb13 is going with systemd.

Code: Select all

siamhie@deb13:~$ inxi -Fxxxra
System:
  Host: deb13 Kernel: 6.12.41+deb13-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc
    v: 14.2.0 clocksource: tsc avail: hpet,acpi_pm
    parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.12.41+deb13-amd64
    root=UUID=7c01aab0-7871-43da-a863-4377a1881a09 ro quiet
  Desktop: Xfce v: 4.20.1 tk: Gtk v: 3.24.48 wm: xfwm4 v: 4.20.0
    with: xfce4-panel tools: light-locker vt: 7 dm: LightDM v: 1.32.0
    Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 13 (trixie)
Machine:
  Type: Desktop Mobo: Micro-Star model: B550-A PRO (MS-7C56) v: 2.0
    serial: <superuser required> uuid: <superuser required> UEFI: American
    Megatrends LLC. v: A.F0 date: 10/11/2023
CPU:
  Info: model: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Zen 3+ gen: 3
    level: v3 note: check built: 2022 process: TSMC n6 (7nm) family: 0x19 (25)
    model-id: 0x21 (33) stepping: 2 microcode: 0xA201210
  Topology: cpus: 1x dies: 1 clusters: 1 cores: 16 threads: 32 tpc: 2
    smt: enabled cache: L1: 1024 KiB desc: d-16x32 KiB; i-16x32 KiB L2: 8 MiB
    desc: 16x512 KiB L3: 64 MiB desc: 2x32 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 3397 min/max: 550/5084 boost: disabled scaling:
    driver: amd-pstate-epp governor: powersave cores: 1: 3397 2: 3397 3: 3397
    4: 3397 5: 3397 6: 3397 7: 3397 8: 3397 9: 3397 10: 3397 11: 3397 12: 3397
    13: 3397 14: 3397 15: 3397 16: 3397 17: 3397 18: 3397 19: 3397 20: 3397
    21: 3397 22: 3397 23: 3397 24: 3397 25: 3397 26: 3397 27: 3397 28: 3397
    29: 3397 30: 3397 31: 3397 32: 3397 bogomips: 217602
  Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm
  Vulnerabilities:
  Type: gather_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: indirect_target_selection status: Not affected
  Type: itlb_multihit status: Not affected
  Type: l1tf status: Not affected
  Type: mds status: Not affected
  Type: meltdown status: Not affected
  Type: mmio_stale_data status: Not affected
  Type: reg_file_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: retbleed status: Not affected
  Type: spec_rstack_overflow mitigation: Safe RET
  Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via
    prctl
  Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer
    sanitization
  Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Retpolines; IBPB: conditional; IBRS_FW;
    STIBP: always-on; RSB filling; PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected; BHI: Not
    affected
  Type: srbds status: Not affected
  Type: tsa status: Vulnerable: Clear CPU buffers attempted, no microcode
  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
Graphics:
  Device-1: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Navi 22 [Radeon RX 6700/6700
    XT/6750 XT / 6800M/6850M XT] vendor: Tul / PowerColor driver: amdgpu
    v: kernel arch: RDNA-2 code: Navi-2x process: TSMC n7 (7nm) built: 2020-22
    pcie: gen: 4 speed: 16 GT/s lanes: 16 ports: active: DP-3 empty: DP-1,
    DP-2, HDMI-A-1, Writeback-1 bus-ID: 0b:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:73df
    class-ID: 0300
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.16 compositor: xfwm4 v: 4.20.0 driver:
    X: loaded: amdgpu unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,radeon,vesa dri: radeonsi
    gpu: amdgpu display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 2560x1440 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 678x382mm (26.69x15.04")
    s-diag: 778mm (30.64")
  Monitor-1: DP-3 mapped: DisplayPort-2 model: HP X27q serial: 6CM14703M6
    built: 2021 res: mode: 2560x1440 hz: 165 scale: 100% (1) dpi: 109 gamma: 1.2
    size: 597x336mm (23.5x13.23") diag: 685mm (27") ratio: 16:9 modes:
    max: 2560x1440 min: 720x400
  API: EGL v: 1.5 hw: drv: amd radeonsi platforms: device: 0 drv: radeonsi
    device: 1 drv: swrast gbm: drv: kms_swrast surfaceless: drv: radeonsi x11:
    drv: radeonsi inactive: wayland
  API: OpenGL v: 4.6 compat-v: 4.5 vendor: amd mesa v: 25.0.7-2 glx-v: 1.4
    direct-render: yes renderer: AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT (radeonsi navi22 LLVM
    19.1.7 DRM 3.61 6.12.41+deb13-amd64) device-ID: 1002:73df
    memory: 11.72 GiB unified: no
  Info: Tools: api: eglinfo,glxinfo de: xfce4-display-settings gpu: lact
    x11: xdriinfo, xdpyinfo, xprop, xrandr
Audio:
  Device-1: Creative Labs CA0132 Sound Core3D [Sound Blaster Recon3D /
    Z-Series BlasterX AE-5 Plus] driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: gen: 1
    speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 bus-ID: 05:00.0 chip-ID: 1102:0012 class-ID: 0403
  Device-2: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Navi 21/23 HDMI/DP Audio
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: gen: 4 speed: 16 GT/s lanes: 16
    bus-ID: 0b:00.1 chip-ID: 1002:ab28 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.12.41+deb13-amd64 status: kernel-api
    tools: alsactl,alsamixer,amixer
  Server-1: PulseAudio v: 17.0 status: active tools: pacat,pactl,pavucontrol
Network:
  Message: No PCI device data found.
  Device-1: NetGear Wireless_Device driver: mt7921u type: USB rev: 3.2
    speed: 5 Gb/s lanes: 1 mode: 3.2 gen-1x1 bus-ID: 4-1:2 chip-ID: 0846:9060
    class-ID: 0000 serial: 000000000
  IF: wlx54077d7f771b state: up mac: 54:07:7d:7f:77:1b
  Info: services: NetworkManager, systemd-timesyncd, wpa_supplicant
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 8.64 TiB used: 5.23 GiB (0.1%)
  SMART Message: Required tool smartctl not installed. Check --recommends
  ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 maj-min: 259:3 vendor: Western Digital
    model: WDS500G1X0E-00AFY0 size: 465.76 GiB block-size: physical: 512 B
    logical: 512 B speed: 63.2 Gb/s lanes: 4 tech: SSD serial: 213434802558
    fw-rev: 613000WD temp: 38.9 C scheme: GPT
  ID-2: /dev/nvme1n1 maj-min: 259:0 vendor: Western Digital
    model: WDS500G3XHC-00SJG0 size: 465.76 GiB block-size: physical: 512 B
    logical: 512 B speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 tech: SSD serial: 204174800338
    fw-rev: 102000WD temp: 35.9 C scheme: GPT
  ID-3: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Seagate model: ST8000DM004-2CX188
    size: 7.28 TiB block-size: physical: 4096 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s
    tech: HDD rpm: 5425 serial: ZR12HWX3 fw-rev: 0001 scheme: GPT
  ID-4: /dev/sdb maj-min: 8:16 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 870 EVO 500GB
    size: 465.76 GiB block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s
    tech: SSD serial: S62ANZFR604378W fw-rev: 1B6Q scheme: GPT
Partition:
  ID-1: / raw-size: 232.88 GiB size: 228.17 GiB (97.98%) used: 5.2 GiB (2.3%)
    fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme1n1p2 maj-min: 259:2
  ID-2: /boot/efi raw-size: 779 MiB size: 777.5 MiB (99.80%)
    used: 32.4 MiB (4.2%) fs: vfat dev: /dev/nvme0n1p1 maj-min: 259:4
Swap:
  Kernel: swappiness: 60 (default) cache-pressure: 100 (default) zswap: no
  ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 64 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2
    dev: /dev/sdb2 maj-min: 8:18
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 31.4 C mobo: N/A gpu: amdgpu temp: 46.0 C
    mem: 48.0 C
  Fan Speeds (rpm): N/A gpu: amdgpu fan: 799
Repos:
  Packages: pm: dpkg pkgs: 1543 libs: 947 tools: apt,apt-get,nala,synaptic
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ trixie main non-free-firmware
    2: deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ trixie main non-free-firmware
    3: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security trixie-security main non-free-firmware
    4: deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security trixie-security main non-free-firmware
    5: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ trixie-updates main non-free-firmware
    6: deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ trixie-updates main non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/extrepo_librewolf.sources
    1: deb [arch=amd64 arm64] https://repo.librewolf.net librewolf main
Info:
  Memory: total: 32 GiB available: 31.27 GiB used: 1.33 GiB (4.3%)
  Processes: 448 Power: uptime: 13m states: freeze,mem,disk suspend: deep
    avail: s2idle wakeups: 0 hibernate: platform avail: shutdown, reboot,
    suspend, test_resume image: 12.48 GiB
    services: upowerd,xfce4-power-manager Init: systemd v: 257
    default: graphical tool: systemctl
  Compilers: N/A Shell: Bash v: 5.2.37 running-in: xfce4-terminal
    inxi: 3.3.38
Debian has used systemd since Jessie. That isn't a new thing with Trixie.
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siamhie
Global Moderator
Posts: 3679
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:45 pm

Re: Responses to Coming changes in impending MX 25 release.

#206 Post by siamhie »

daemonspudguy wrote: Thu Aug 14, 2025 1:27 pm Debian has used systemd since Jessie. That isn't a new thing with Trixie.
This is the first time I've installed Debian to bare metal, so I have some catching up to do in that regards. Thanks for the info. :number1:
This is my Fluxbox . There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My Fluxbox is my best friend. It is my life.
I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my Fluxbox is useless. Without my Fluxbox, I am useless.
Top
DeepDayze
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:34 pm

Re: Responses to Coming changes in impending MX 25 release.

#207 Post by DeepDayze »

Considering that systemd has stripped out the SysV compatibility stuff (and the shim) it's a bummer with the upcoming MX-25 we can no longer be able to select whether to boot with SysV or systemd at boot time as SysV seems no longer coinstallable. There would be separate ISOs though.
Real Men Use Linux
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j2mcgreg
Global Moderator
Posts: 7101
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:04 pm

Re: Responses to Coming changes in impending MX 25 release.

#208 Post by j2mcgreg »

DeepDayze wrote: Fri Aug 15, 2025 10:12 am Considering that systemd has stripped out the SysV compatibility stuff (and the shim) it's a bummer with the upcoming MX-25 we can no longer be able to select whether to boot with SysV or systemd at boot time as SysV seems no longer coinstallable. There would be separate ISOs though.
In this case I think it will be prudent to create live USB drives for both ISOs. This way it will be easy for a user to check if hardware component or package requires SystemD by booing into a live session, or vice versa for Sys V init.
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DeepDayze
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Re: Responses to Coming changes in impending MX 25 release.

#209 Post by DeepDayze »

j2mcgreg wrote: Fri Aug 15, 2025 12:16 pm
DeepDayze wrote: Fri Aug 15, 2025 10:12 am Considering that systemd has stripped out the SysV compatibility stuff (and the shim) it's a bummer with the upcoming MX-25 we can no longer be able to select whether to boot with SysV or systemd at boot time as SysV seems no longer coinstallable. There would be separate ISOs though.
In this case I think it will be prudent to create live USB drives for both ISOs. This way it will be easy for a user to check if hardware component or package requires SystemD by booing into a live session, or vice versa for Sys V init.
The SysV ISO be best for older machines IMO but good suggestion to grab both to try to see what gives the best user experience for the hardware the user has.
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Re: Responses to Coming changes in impending MX 25 release.

#210 Post by AK-47 »

DeepDayze wrote: Fri Aug 15, 2025 10:12 am Considering that systemd has stripped out the SysV compatibility stuff (and the shim) it's a bummer with the upcoming MX-25 we can no longer be able to select whether to boot with SysV or systemd at boot time as SysV seems no longer coinstallable. There would be separate ISOs though.
What systemd stripped out was support for SysV scripts, which it supported during a transition period to give services time to adapt to systemd. The systemd-shim (which I assume you are referring to) is a separate project by a separate developer, unfortunately no longer functioning and IMO not worth even bothering with at this stage given how rapid the changes are for systemd releases. I can't speak for all devs, but I found trying to support both sysvinit and systemd on the same install was fraught with issues, such as not being able to easily tell what kind of system is installed.
j2mcgreg wrote: Fri Aug 15, 2025 12:16 pmIn this case I think it will be prudent to create live USB drives for both ISOs. This way it will be easy for a user to check if hardware component or package requires SystemD by booing into a live session, or vice versa for Sys V init.
These days it is actually more likely that the systemd session supports the hardware and packages better given how dynamic it is compared to SysV. Stuff that uses kernel drivers may not notice any difference, but packages tend to support systemd more than SysV these days, even the ones that have SysV scripts also come with systemd unit files. Debian has been on systemd for a while now, you'll be hard pressed to find a Debian package which supports SysV but not systemd.
DeepDayze wrote: Fri Aug 15, 2025 12:22 pmThe SysV ISO be best for older machines IMO but good suggestion to grab both to try to see what gives the best user experience for the hardware the user has.
Depends on what you mean by "older". If it's older than anything that can run the current version of systemd, you may be better off with antiX as you will struggle even with a SysV MX.
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