Responses to Coming changes in impending MX 25 release.

[BV206]

I am more concerned with other things that Debian may have changed or dropped than the sysv/systemd issues.

[AVLinux]

I am more concerned with other things that Debian may have changed or dropped than the sysv/systemd issues.

From my experience with alpha builds with Trixie there are a few changes but nothing earth-shattering, off the top of my head..

cpufrequtils is discontinued, a minor annoyance..
policykit-gnome is discontinued but the wonderful MX devs have kept it alive, mate and lxde policykit variants are also viable alternatives.
32 bit kernels are discontinued but not 32bit Packages
GTK2 appears to still be intact
QT5 is still there alongside QT6
X11 is alive and as well as ever in Debian

I'm sure there are others I just can't recall right now.. I thought Debian's hammer fell pretty softly on Trixie..

[Adrian]

I am more concerned with other things that Debian may have changed or dropped than the sysv/systemd issues.

From my experience with alpha builds with Trixie there are a few changes but nothing earth-shattering, off the top of my head..

cpufrequtils is discontinued, a minor annoyance..
policykit-gnome is discontinued but the wonderful MX devs have kept it alive, mate and lxde policykit variants are viable alternatives.
32 bit kernels are discontinued but not 32bit Packages
GTK2 appears to still be intact
QT5 is still there alongside QT6
X11 is alive and as well as ever in Debian

I'm sure there are others I just can't recall right now.. I thought Debian's hammer fell pretty softly on Trixie..

That's a good summary, haven't seen anything else out of ordinary.

[uncle mark]

I fell in love with Mepis if for no other reason than the fact that Warren and I seemed to be on the same wavelength about how a distro should look, feel, and operate. That carried over to the KDE offering that the MX devs ended up offering (after some whining and cajoling), and I haven't looked back. If MX-25 KDE gives me the same look, feel, and operates the same as my trusty old MX-19 KDE, that should last me until the end of my days.

Did I read right, that the KDE systemd version will require UEFI? I'm not sure this 2011 vintage machine even has that capability.

Code: Select all

System:    Kernel: 5.6.0-2-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 8.3.0 
           parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.6.0-2-amd64 root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet splash 
           Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.14.5 wm: kwin_x11 vt: 7 dm: SDDM Distro: MX-19.4_KDE_x64 patito feo August 16  2020 
           base: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) 
Machine:   Type: Desktop Mobo: ASUSTeK model: M4A87TD/USB3 v: Rev 1.xx serial: <filter> BIOS: American Megatrends v: 0601 
           date: 04/02/2010 
CPU:       Info: Quad Core model: AMD Athlon II X4 630 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: K10 family: 10 (16) model-id: 5 stepping: 2 
           microcode: 10000DB cache: L2: 2 MiB 
           flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4a svm bogomips: 22475 
           Speed: 800 MHz min/max: 800/2800 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 800 2: 2800 3: 800 4: 800 
           Vulnerabilities: Type: itlb_multihit status: Not affected 
           Type: l1tf status: Not affected 
           Type: mds status: Not affected 
           Type: meltdown status: Not affected 
           Type: spec_store_bypass status: Not affected 
           Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization 
           Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Full AMD retpoline, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling 
           Type: srbds status: Not affected 
           Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected 
Graphics:  Device-1: Brooktree Bt878 Video Capture vendor: Hauppauge works WinTV Series driver: bttv v: 0.9.19 bus-ID: 02:06.0 
           chip-ID: 109e:036e class-ID: 0400 
           Device-2: NVIDIA GF119 [GeForce GT 610] vendor: PNY driver: nouveau v: kernel bus-ID: 05:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:104a 
           class-ID: 0300 
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.9 compositor: kwin_x11 driver: loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa 
           display-ID: :0 screens: 1 
           Screen-1: 0 s-res: 2880x900 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 762x238mm (30.0x9.4") s-diag: 798mm (31.4") 
           Monitor-1: DVI-I-1 res: 1440x900 dpi: 90 size: 408x255mm (16.1x10.0") diag: 481mm (18.9") 
           Monitor-2: VGA-1 res: 1440x900 dpi: 90 size: 408x255mm (16.1x10.0") diag: 481mm (18.9") 
           OpenGL: renderer: NVD9 v: 4.3 Mesa 20.1.8 direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Device-1: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] SBx00 Azalia driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:14.2 
           chip-ID: 1002:4383 class-ID: 0403 
           Device-2: Brooktree Bt878 Video Capture vendor: Hauppauge works WinTV Series driver: bttv v: 0.9.19 bus-ID: 02:06.0 
           chip-ID: 109e:036e class-ID: 0400 
           Device-3: Brooktree Bt878 Audio Capture vendor: Hauppauge works WinTV Series driver: snd_bt87x v: kernel 
           bus-ID: 02:06.1 chip-ID: 109e:0878 class-ID: 0480 
           Device-4: NVIDIA GF119 HDMI Audio vendor: PNY driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 05:00.1 chip-ID: 10de:0e08 
           class-ID: 0403 
           Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k5.6.0-2-amd64 running: yes 
           Sound Server-2: PulseAudio v: 12.2 running: yes 
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: ASUSTeK P8P67 and other motherboards 
           driver: r8169 v: kernel port: a800 bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10ec:8168 class-ID: 0200 
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 476.03 GiB used: 130.75 GiB (27.5%) 
           SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required. 
           ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Mushkin model: MKNSSDRW480GB size: 447.13 GiB block-size: physical: 512 B 
           logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: SSD serial: <filter> rev: 0A0 scheme: MBR 
           ID-2: /dev/sdb maj-min: 8:16 type: USB vendor: PNY model: USB 3.0 FD size: 28.9 GiB block-size: physical: 512 B 
           logical: 512 B type: N/A serial: <filter> rev: PMAP scheme: MBR 
           SMART Message: Unknown USB bridge. Flash drive/Unsupported enclosure? 
Partition: ID-1: / raw-size: 437.36 GiB size: 429.5 GiB (98.20%) used: 130.75 GiB (30.4%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1 maj-min: 8:1 
Swap:      Alert: No swap data was found. 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 42.0 C mobo: 37.0 C gpu: nouveau temp: 48.0 C 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 2288 psu: 0 case-1: 0 
           Power: 12v: 12.05 5v: N/A 3.3v: 3.36 vbat: N/A 
Repos:     Packages: note: see --pkg apt: 2783 lib: 1662 flatpak: 0 
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list 
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list 
           1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list 
           1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
           2: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list 
           1: deb [arch=amd64] http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list 
           1: deb http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo/ buster main non-free
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list 
Info:      Processes: 213 Uptime: 12h 31m wakeups: 1 Memory: 7.78 GiB used: 2.37 GiB (30.4%) Init: SysVinit v: 2.93 
           runlevel: 5 default: 5 tool: systemctl Compilers: gcc: 8.3.0 alt: 8 Shell: quick-system-in default: Bash v: 5.0.3 
           running-in: quick-system-in inxi: 3.3.06 

[Adrian]

systemd doesn't depend on UEFI. I recommend using UEFI if the machine is capable of that but it's not something you need. Using a 14 year-old machine for KDE is a pretty good stuff... You should set up a swap space though, even a small file based one.

[asqwerth]

i have never said a negative thing about MX since i began using it with mx17. i enjoyed and had great luck running it as it was by default sysvinit. now i am a bit concerned and in a quandary as to what and how to proceed to get the mx25 to operate as close to the 23 version i am currently running. i have been an advocate for mx and i would hate to have to try and find and start all over again somewhere else or with another distro since MX has always blown me away! i do not know a lot of technical stuff - i just want it to work and feel as 'normal' as possible for my user-friendly experience. Dolphin has always been cool and honest and knowledgeable and hard working as well as the rest of the team... i just hope it all works out in the end. :-)

Besides all the reassurances the others have given you, my advice would be that if and when you want to move to MX25, install it FRESH and get a properly set up default system.

Don't try to use the unsupported, warning-laden way of carrying out an in-place upgrade of your existing MX23 install to turn it into MX25.

Due to the removal of systemd-shim, etc etc, it may not go smoothly, may require manual intervention, and even with all that, may mess up your system, especially if you aren't a knowledgeable, technical Linux user.

[ghunter]

hmmm

One of the reasons I like MX was because it was not systemd. Altho you may not care, I do not see a huge future in sysV init either.

I do like the "simpilcity" of runit. And my other distro void is already on 6.12 series some snippets if interested

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inxi -F
System:
  Host: box Kernel: 6.12.41_1 arch: x86_64 bits: 64
  Desktop: Xfce v: 4.20.1-UNKNOWN Distro: Void Linux

Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.18 driver: X: loaded: amdgpu

Src: /sys System Temperatures: cpu: 26.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: amdgpu

inxi -Ixxx
Info:
  Memory: total: 64 GiB note: est. available: 61.71 GiB used: 1.57 GiB (2.5%)
  Processes: 287 Power: uptime: 12m states: freeze,mem,disk suspend: deep
    wakeups: 0 hibernate: platform Init: runit v: N/A
  Packages: pm: xbps pkgs: 675 Compilers: N/A Shell: Bash v: 5.2.32
    running-in: xfce4-terminal inxi: 3.3.38

[asqwerth]

hmmm

One of the reasons I like MX was because it was not systemd. Altho you may not care, I do not see a huge future in sysV init either.

I do like the "simpilcity" of runit. And my other distro void is already on 6.12 series some snippets if interested

Code: Select all

inxi -F
System:
  Host: box Kernel: 6.12.41_1 arch: x86_64 bits: 64
  Desktop: Xfce v: 4.20.1-UNKNOWN Distro: Void Linux

Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.18 driver: X: loaded: amdgpu

Src: /sys System Temperatures: cpu: 26.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: amdgpu

inxi -Ixxx
Info:
  Memory: total: 64 GiB note: est. available: 61.71 GiB used: 1.57 GiB (2.5%)
  Processes: 287 Power: uptime: 12m states: freeze,mem,disk suspend: deep
    wakeups: 0 hibernate: platform Init: runit v: N/A
  Packages: pm: xbps pkgs: 675 Compilers: N/A Shell: Bash v: 5.2.32
    running-in: xfce4-terminal inxi: 3.3.38

I'm generally happy with my Void runit install, but I haven't been able to get my VPN client working on it. And those ovpn files don't seem to work either. So I've settled for using the vpn's firefox broswer extension.

On the other hand, I was able to get Artix (Arch-based) runit distro to work with the same vpn client. The runit script that works with Artix doesn't work with Void, unfortunately. I still like Void, but it's not as fully "it just works" as MX.

I'm happy to continue using MX25 XFCE with sysV, while moving to systemd on MX-KDE.

[FullScale4Me]

hmmm

One of the reasons I like MX was because it was not systemd. Altho you may not care, I do not see a huge future in sysV init either.

A quick search using the factors: Linux, Debian based and SysV shows 16 distros. If you take Debian out it goes up to 49 distros.

One of the partners that run the site I searched on is one of the 4 maintainers of SysV init. A project as small as an init process with 4 people maintaining seems to have a better than average future IMHO.

[autumn]

Significant data loss incident last time ran systemd, and ethical issues, so wouldn't run a systemd version, but wanting to ask if mullvad installer (systemd-shim) and wine (needs systemd and sysV?) would run on the purely sysV version.

Thanks that there'll be a sysV version, that that isn't going away. Also, thanks to the guy who worked on systemd-shim; glad got to use it and can continue to maintain pc running that for the foreseeable.