Simply installing New Releases

[hebelwirkung]

... I am on KDE, and though I have read some people facing problems (including me but was a minor thing and I got support instantly). But I still can say it is rock solid.

Regarding to the lots of downloads, well, I can think of a way similar to a rolling release but not necessarily really rolling, I mean it can be something like changing repos (on Debian to Testing repos not sid), this way updates/upgrades will be as stable as the annual releases, but the users will get the upgrades same way as it is done in rolling.

@limotux - Congrats on running KDE without problems on EOS. I may have used the difficulties I encountered as a welcome excuse to abandon KDE (again) - from time to time I try to like it, but though it does have features I appreciate, overall it just isn't my cup of tea.

As for switching a Debian base from stable to testing, as I understand it this does increase the risk of things going wrong, testing - by definition - being the state of something before it is officially declared to be fully stable. One of the many good things about MX is that - using MX Package Installer - you can upgrade seleced apps via Testing or Backports without abandoning the stable base, though probably it's a good idea to use those options sparingly. In many cases, upgraded versions of this or that piece of software don't truly give you revolutionary new options, as you will know from using EOS and comparing their stuff to the less cutting edge versions offered by Debian stable.

On the whole, Debian's strongest point probably is its stability, which is why hardcore Debian fans swear by it. They probably would say it's wise not to jeopardize that by mixing repos with abandon

[limotux]

....

@limotux - Congrats on running KDE without problems on EOS. I may have used the difficulties I encountered as a welcome excuse to abandon KDE (again) - from time to time I try to like it, but though it does have features I appreciate, overall it just isn't my cup of tea.

As for switching a Debian base from stable to testing, as I understand it this does increase the risk of things going wrong, testing - by definition - being the state of something before it is officially declared to be fully stable. One of the many good things about MX is that - using MX Package Installer - you can upgrade seleced apps via Testing or Backports without abandoning the stable base, though probably it's a good idea to use those options sparingly. In many cases, upgraded versions of this or that piece of software don't truly give you revolutionary new options, as you will know from using EOS and comparing their stuff to the less cutting edge versions offered by Debian stable.

On the whole, Debian's strongest point probably is its stability, which is why hardcore Debian fans swear by it. They probably would say it's wise not to jeopardize that by mixing repos with abandon

Thank you @hebelwirkung
Well, I can compare an Arch based rolling release to Debian SID, given that Testing repo is much more tested and much more stable than SID, so I think following Testing repos will be rolling while being much more stable.

Again my point is not having the latest software, it is about installing only once without the hassles and risks of doing a fresh install.

And again if SID is equivalent to rolling then testing will be rolling and more stable. I think this would get best of both worlds.

[asqwerth]

You're not going to get any support/help here if you are trying to make MX a Debian Testing distro, as you are well aware from your involvement in the discussion in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=728059#p728059

if SID is equivalent to rolling then testing will be rolling and more stable.....

Oh boy. Please read this to understand more about Debian Testing and potential issues. https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debi ... ng.en.html

Testing

does not have permanent security support.

I can just imagine the requests in this forum for help and support if MX moved to being based on Debian Testing .

[hebelwirkung]

You're not going to get any support/help here if you are trying to make MX a Debian Testing distro...

I can just imagine the requests in this forum for help and support if MX moved to being based on Debian Testing .

As I understand it, he wants to not have to install new versions but install once and then keep rolling. The point about Debian is that it's not really meant to be used in this way. He is also using EndeavourOS, though, and that is a rolling release. If rolling is what one's after, one could do worse than EOS (Manjaro for example, in my limited experience). Probably @limotux believes that Debian Testing by and large is as safe and stable as Debian stable. Well it's not, but sometimes, that's maybe difficult to accept until some breakage or other forces the insight on you.

[asqwerth]

You're not going to get any support/help here if you are trying to make MX a Debian Testing distro...

I can just imagine the requests in this forum for help and support if MX moved to being based on Debian Testing .

As I understand it, he wants to not have to install new versions but install once and then keep rolling. The point about Debian is that it's not really meant to be used in this way. He is also using EndeavourOS, though, and that is a rolling release. If rolling is what one's after, one could do worse than EOS (Manjaro for example, in my limited experience). Probably @limotux believes that Debian Testing by and large is as safe and stable as Debian stable. Well it's not, but sometimes, that's maybe difficult to accept until some breakage or other forces the insight on you.

I am sure OP is already aware that a fresh install can be done with the preservation of /home, or that the devs might provide a "do at your own risk" upgrade-path to carry out in-place upgrades when MX23 is finally released, as they did for the past 2 releases.

Apart from that, you are right that the OP may need to learn from experience as to what Testing is like. I have run Testing (old Parsix, old SolydX) and Sid based distros (Semplice) and while I didn't have huge problems keeping them going, I had to pay more attention and spend more time for each upgrade (and they were frequent). Plus judicious use of "apt-mark hold" to hold packages until some other dependency was also updated.

You can't do brainless one-click updates like you can for Debian Stable-based distros.

If you want full rolling, Arch-based or Void or even PCLOS are pretty good. I don't have issues with Manjaro - the install on my PC has served me well since 2015.

[Jakob77]

limotux

I agree it is essential to keep data safe but if you have an extra computer where you can test the new install and your restore without destroying the old installation, what is the risk.?

If you know how to choose copy instead of erase in Thunar (Xfce) you will just be making more backup and that leads to even more safety.

I can see nothing but convenience in your life.

Using the whole disk for MX (for a dummy like me the only way to go) will also make the basic install extremely easy and safe.

By the way I have an old computer that was really slow but when I gave it a SSD drive it helped a lot.
I don't know if it is an idea for you but it can also be a way to keep the old system when the new one is installed. If you have regrets you can just switch back again.

[hebelwirkung]

I have run Testing (old Parsix, old SolydX) and Sid based distros (Semplice) and while I didn't have huge problems keeping them going, I had to pay more attention and spend more time for each upgrade (and they were frequent). Plus judicious use of "apt-mark hold" to hold packages until some other dependency was also updated.

You can't do brainless one-click updates like you can for Debian Stable-based distros.

If you want full rolling, Arch-based or Void or even PCLOS are pretty good. I don't have issues with Manjaro - the install on my PC has served me well since 2015.

And then one gradually loses track of stuff, hold this package, wait for that dependency - I just don't think it's worth the hassle. Okay, maybe that's me, because I have done updates in a state of near coma and not paid the least attention to what I was doing; one reason I like brainless one-click updates :-)

Manjaro died on me some years back, and for some reason, each time I've since tried it out again I had minor issues, sound stuff for example, stuff to do with AUR packages, this or that, never anything major, just small things which sometimes might take quite a while to work out. I know it's unfashionable to praise Debian as it's considered not sexy or whatever. But if you depend on your main machine for work for example, there's a lot to be said for solid, stable and reliable...

[limotux]

I thank all of you guys for all your valuable input.

I do understand MX is based on Debian Stable and on making a new install when a new release comes out, and I won't get support here if I changed the defaults. I understand this I assure you.

I searched more and found that even the Testing repos have bulseye in the repo, so it is still not really what I was after.

Anyway, I have it now on the "new" old laptop, leaving it as is with defaults. I will see how things go when the next release comes out.
As a dear member said, that having only one OS (which is MX) installed on the full drive would make the upgrade much easier.

Thank you all for all your input.

I was just thinking out loud with you, in hope I will learn more and get more experience.
I will keep that installed MX as is, on defaults and see how it goes.

Thank you all for everything.

But honestly, I really hope some day there will be a rolling release of MX, not necessarily rolling and getting updates all the time, but perhaps rolling as just install once and get updates as usual, and upgrades when developers see the software is really stable. The only and main point is to install once. It would be the best of both worlds.

Hopefully with every new release there will be instructions to upgrade to the new release without the need to do an install.
I ma just thinking out loud with you.

[anticapitalista]

...

But honestly, I really hope some day there will be a rolling release of MX, not necessarily rolling and getting updates all the time, but perhaps rolling as just install once and get updates as usual, and upgrades when developers see the software is really stable. The only and main point is to install once. It would be the best of both worlds.

...

In my opinion, anyone that wants a 'rolling' MX should set all Debian repos to Debian Testing immediately after installation and just roll.
But, it would no longer be MX.

[wdscharff]

I don't understand this hype regarding rolling releases.

I have never seen a commercial release (if it was not IT and you did not have an expert at hand) that lasted longer than 3 months without having to manually rework after any updates.

Yes, the problems were usually solved after a half to 3 hours, but "sell" such an operating system times e.g. a photographer / video creator, who still 1000 pictures of a wedding and 2 training videos for an agency to a fixed date must have ready ... he can not afford the dates burst (he does not survive here in the province) or he must refuse orders, because he just had to patch half a day a crappy rolling update. All already experienced, that's why I (and a dozen colleagues) use opensuse and mx .

I allowed myself to play with Arch and its derivatives and also with the first opensuse tumbleweed, because I had spare computers for such games, on work computers it would have given me gray hair.

Once / twice a year a complete reinstallation (I'm doing one right now :-) ) is no problem for me, with Fluxbox it is half limited to copying text configs, a few minor adjustments and reinstalling programs that are not included with Flux.

Rawwconverters and video editing programs are mostly appimages, those (and the associated desktop files) are a trivial copy&paste action.

This is a few hours in total that I need for it, but it is also again a ballast free, so to speak virgin system.

MX is as stable as an old tank, as long as you stick with what the MXPI offers (and what runs smoothly as an appimage).