Lightweight browsers [Solved]

[yoshi]

Lags are caused either by the

• network:
  variance in Round Trip Time or too low data rate so the internal data buffer runs "dry" and the browser needs to wait tilll it fills up again

• processing power:
  cpu or gpu struggle to support the video decoding
  when using hw accelerated graphics the cpu load should be low since the gpu takes over the processing
  for activating HW acceleration for FF i wrote an artice:
  https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php ... 18#p697918

I would almost guess it's the network if it's working some evenings.
you could start a ping to a server IP (ideally to the streaming server but google.com will also do...) and let it run for 24h.
When you stop it (ctrl+c) you get a statistics like

Code: Select all

rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 30.538/72.832/405.100/94.690 ms

which gives you insight into your Round Trip Time for that particular server.
What you are interested in is the difference between min and max - that tells you the variance in the RTT.
Ideally min=max=avg
So this is an example for an suboptimal connection with min: 30.5ms and max: 405.1ms

This is a better one:

Code: Select all

rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 30.606/34.230/44.281/3.568 ms

What I found is, that when the cpu has high load, my internet RTT also varies a lot.
I guess it's due to processes the CPU has to do for the network connection.
So testing with high CPU loads is also advisable - and if that's the case reducing the CPU load by having the GPU do the graphics processing

[arjaybe]

Lags are caused either by the

• network:
  variance in Round Trip Time or too low data rate so the internal data buffer runs "dry" and the browser needs to wait tilll it fills up again

• processing power:
  cpu or gpu struggle to support the video decoding
  when using hw accelerated graphics the cpu load should be low since the gpu takes over the processing
  for activating HW acceleration for FF i wrote an artice:
  https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php ... 18#p697918

I would almost guess it's the network if it's working some evenings.
you could start a ping to a server IP (ideally to the streaming server but google.com will also do...) and let it run for 24h.
When you stop it (ctrl+c) you get a statistics like

Code: Select all

rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 30.538/72.832/405.100/94.690 ms

which gives you insight into your Round Trip Time for that particular server.
What you are interested in is the difference between min and max - that tells you the variance in the RTT.
Ideally min=max=avg
So this is an example for an suboptimal connection with min: 30.5ms and max: 405.1ms

This is a better one:

Code: Select all

rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 30.606/34.230/44.281/3.568 ms

What I found is, that when the cpu has high load, my internet RTT also varies a lot.
I guess it's due to processes the CPU has to do for the network connection.
So testing with high CPU loads is also advisable - and if that's the case reducing the CPU load by having the GPU do the graphics processing

Thanks, Yoshi. I have tried with H/W accel on and off several times with no appreciable difference. The problem might be the network speed, but my speed tests come in around 180-220 Mbps. Maybe the variable quality has to do with the wires being overloaded in my neighborhood at different times, like Saturday night when the game is on. Maybe it has as much to do with my weak processor.

I just tried brief pings on google and my streamer and the streamer did better overall. Maybe I'll try running one for longer.

edit: I ran ping for a day and got these results:
70173 sent, 70002 received.
19.737/24.364/78.533/2.904ms

I'm leaning heavily toward the processors being the problem. I'm looking at small form factor computers with processors in the i5 6000s or, better, 7000s, and Ryzen 5 3000 - 5000 and possibly even 3 3200.

[arjaybe]

There are a lot of inexpensive AMD Ryzen processors laptops out there. The Ryzen 5 5xxx series is really fast, but even the cheap Ryzen 5 3500u is ~5x as fast as your n3700.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/25 ... en-5-3500U

Thanks, Tim. Those Ryzens do look a lot better, but I don't recall seeing any in the minis I've found available as refurbs. I'll try a specific search.

edit: Okay, I've got a lot to look at.-) The tricky part is remembering HDMI, but I can get an DP to HDMI adaptor.

[jeffreyC]

Not so fast, I guess. I had a sticky game again last night. A few seconds of smooth action, then a freeze followed by a jump. I'm thinking now that the processor is just not strong enough in the laptop. (Pentium N3700) So I'm looking at refurbished mini computers to take its place beside the TV. (The Dells seem more likely to have the required HDMI than the Lenovos or HPs. Wireless not required) I could use your help finding something strong enough, but cheap enough. Something in the i5 family? i5 8250U, for instance? The "U" indicates the chip is for mobiles, though. Does that matter? Maybe an i5 in the 7000s or even 6000s.

As a side benefit, this would liberate the laptop for recording stories without having to keep unplugging and moving it.

The reason those tiny computers use the Ultrabook CPUs is because they have very little room for cooling and so they need a CPU with minimal heat generated, some are even passively cooled.
The wattage is expressed in TDP which is actually a measurement of heat potential.

[arjaybe]

What about this mini computer?

Lenovo Think Center M700 Tiny Desktop PC,Intel Quad Core I5-6500T 2.5GHz up to 3.1G,16GB,256GB SSD

I can get it refurbed on Amazon for $240CDN.

[AVLinux]

Just a note in case it may widen your choices... SFF (small form factor) computers that have DisplayPort Video ports can also be used for HDMI, an inexpensive DisplayPort to HDMI cable from Amazon will work. I have an i5 SFF HP reseller computer I use in an outbuilding here for a cheap HTPC and it works just fine from it's Displayport to an HDMI TV input. Office reseller computers from HP and Dell are easy to find and often are around $200 CDN usually with a registered copy of Win10 included, of course you can install Linux as well (or instead) since both HP and Dell hardware are very Linux-friendly..

[arjaybe]

Just a note in case it may widen your choices... SFF (small form factor) computers that have DisplayPort Video ports can also be used for HDMI, an inexpensive DisplayPort to HDMI cable from Amazon will work. I have an i5 SFF HP reseller computer I use in an outbuilding here for a cheap HTPC and it works just fine from it's Displayport to an HDMI TV input. Office reseller computers from HP and Dell are easy to find and often are around $200 CDN usually with a registered copy of Win10 included, of course you can install Linux as well (or instead) since both HP and Dell hardware are very Linux-friendly..

Thanks. $13 on Amazon, but the Lenovo above comes with one. It's good to hear that they work okay, though. Yeah, they all seem to come with Windows. First thing will be to install MX, of course, over top if it.-) The HPs I've looked at don't have HDMI, but they do have DP. The Dells tend to have HDMI. I'm liking that Lenovo because it's about 7" square.

[yoshi]

How about a Raspberry Pi?
They do video decoding in HW (can do HD) and were super cheap in comparison.
There is even MX Linux for RPi AFAIK.

[arjaybe]

Got a nice little mini delivered today. Lenovo Thinkcenter 700 i5 6500T 16GB. Came with DP - HDMI adaptor. Installed MX and tried it out. Runs smoothly, no stress on the processor, nice and cool. Speedtest results double what they were. Streaming flawlessly.

Seems the browser is not the issue. It's the strength of the machine.

Now I've got a dedicated streaming machine and the laptop can be free for recording. All good. Thanks everyone.

rjb

edit: Acid test. Saturday night game. Perfect. Also getting my normal 350 Mbps, double what it was with the laptop. I feel good.