Story of graphics problem - and a question

[Gaer Boy]

I've had a frustrating 30 hours! Yesterday morning, in preparation for replacing my SSD, I shut down and removed the side panel to check the cabling available. Having found that I would have to remove the existing OS disk, install the new one and set up from scratch, I replaced the side panel and rebooted - to a blank screen! Nothing - no start screen, no grub, no login. With no help from the monitor, nothing would shut the computer down, not even 15 secs holding the power button. Switched off at the wall.

I tried substituting a HDMI connection for the DVI but that made no difference. After half an hour of trying everything I could think of, I came to the conclusion that the GPU output had failed. Priority then was to get my laptop set up for a scheduled Zoom session with the family. I was committed in the afternoon, so left the problem until this morning. I checked the monitor using the laptop with a RGB connection - all OK. Tried the desktop again with the HDMI cable and it booted fine, although it identified my Samsung 24" monitor as a Samsung 7" monitor. Since the resolution was still 1920 x 1080, that gave an interesting display - no panel, no conky, no MX logo and the default wallpaper on the 6 desktops, where I have 6 different wallpapers.

Having checked that otherwise things worked normally, I shut down, changed to DVI connection and rebooted to my normal system. The only difference was that the screen was much brighter than before - too bright. It appeared that the monitor settings had been changed. Once those were restored, I'm back to a normal system and much perplexed. I can't work out what happened - any bright ideas welcomed!

Code: Select all

System:    Host: <filter> Kernel: 4.19.0-14-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 8.3.0 
           parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-14-amd64 
           root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet splash 
           Desktop: Xfce 4.14.2 tk: Gtk 3.24.5 info: xfce4-panel wm: xfwm4 dm: LightDM 1.26.0 
           Distro: MX-19.3_x64 patito feo October 21  2019 base: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) 
Machine:   Type: Desktop Mobo: ASRock model: FM2A88X-ITX+ serial: <filter> 
           UEFI: American Megatrends v: P2.10 date: 01/17/2014 
Battery:   Device-1: hidpp_battery_0 model: Logitech Wireless Keyboard K270 serial: <filter> 
           charge: 100% (should be ignored) rechargeable: yes status: Discharging 
           Device-2: hidpp_battery_1 model: Logitech Wireless Mouse M185 serial: <filter> 
           charge: 55% (should be ignored) rechargeable: yes status: Discharging 
CPU:       Topology: Quad Core model: AMD A8-6500 APU with Radeon HD Graphics bits: 64 type: MCP 
           arch: Piledriver family: 15 (21) model-id: 13 (19) stepping: 1 microcode: 6001119 
           L2 cache: 2048 KiB 
           flags: avx lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm bogomips: 27949 
           Speed: 2118 MHz min/max: 1700/3500 MHz boost: enabled Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1993 
           2: 2149 3: 1964 4: 1812 
           Vulnerabilities: Type: itlb_multihit status: Not affected 
           Type: l1tf status: Not affected 
           Type: mds status: Not affected 
           Type: meltdown status: Not affected 
           Type: spec_store_bypass 
           mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl and seccomp 
           Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization 
           Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Full AMD retpoline, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling 
           Type: srbds status: Not affected 
           Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected 
Graphics:  Device-1: AMD Richland [Radeon HD 8570D] vendor: ASRock driver: radeon v: kernel 
           bus ID: 00:01.0 chip ID: 1002:990e 
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: ati,radeon unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa 
           resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz 
           OpenGL: renderer: AMD ARUBA (DRM 2.50.0 / 4.19.0-14-amd64 LLVM 7.0.1) 
           v: 4.3 Mesa 18.3.6 compat-v: 3.1 direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Device-1: AMD Trinity HDMI Audio vendor: ASRock driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel 
           bus ID: 00:01.1 chip ID: 1002:9902 
           Device-2: AMD FCH Azalia vendor: ASRock driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel 
           bus ID: 00:14.2 chip ID: 1022:780d 
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.19.0-14-amd64 
Network:   Device-1: Qualcomm Atheros AR9462 Wireless Network Adapter vendor: AzureWave 
           driver: ath9k v: kernel port: f100 bus ID: 01:00.0 chip ID: 168c:0034 
           IF: wlan0 state: down mac: <filter> 
           Device-2: Qualcomm Atheros QCA8171 Gigabit Ethernet vendor: ASRock driver: alx 
           v: kernel port: e000 bus ID: 03:00.0 chip ID: 1969:10a1 
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 1.93 TiB used: 373.83 GiB (18.9%) 
           ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Samsung model: SSD 840 EVO 120GB size: 111.79 GiB block size: 
           physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s serial: <filter> rev: BB6Q scheme: GPT 
           ID-2: /dev/sdb vendor: Seagate model: ST1000DM005 HD103SJ size: 931.51 GiB 
           block size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 3.0 Gb/s rotation: 7200 rpm 
           serial: <filter> rev: 00E5 scheme: MBR 
           ID-3: /dev/sdc vendor: Toshiba model: HDWD110 size: 931.51 GiB block size: 
           physical: 4096 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s rotation: 7200 rpm serial: <filter> 
           rev: A8J0 scheme: MBR 
Partition: ID-1: / raw size: 19.53 GiB size: 19.10 GiB (97.79%) used: 13.88 GiB (72.7%) fs: ext4 
           dev: /dev/sda4 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 17.8 C mobo: N/A gpu: radeon temp: 15 C 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
Repos:     No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list 
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list 
           1: deb http://mirror.sov.uk.goscomb.net/debian/ buster-updates main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list 
           1: deb http://mirror.sov.uk.goscomb.net/debian/ buster main contrib non-free
           2: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ buster/updates main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list 
           1: deb https://anorien.csc.warwick.ac.uk/mirrors/mxlinux/packages/mx/repo/ buster main non-free
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/softmaker.list 
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list 
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/vivaldi.list 
           1: deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/stable/deb/ stable main
Info:      Processes: 234 Uptime: 5h 12m Memory: 6.73 GiB used: 2.50 GiB (37.1%) Init: SysVinit 
           v: 2.93 runlevel: 5 default: 5 Compilers: gcc: 8.3.0 alt: 8 Shell: quick-system-in 
           running in: quick-system-in inxi: 3.0.36 

I have had one minor niggle with one USB port for a while and have considered a rebuild with a new motherboard. ITX board choices are limited and all the options I can find are a bit pricey when you add the CPU & memory. I'll content myself with swapping the SSD for now, unless this happens again.

[Gaer Boy]

Well, this is now a reproducible problem. Rebooting after a shut down results in no video, unless the system has been down for a number of hours (I've only tested overnight). I'm fairly certain it's not the monitor, which works fine with my laptop, so my mid-term solution is a rebuild with a new motherboard, processor & memory. I would do this now but low to mid-range AMD processors are unavailable in the UK at present, or offered at ridiculous prices.

I'm intending to use a Gigabyte AMD Ryzen A520 mini-ITX board with a Ryzen 5 3400G processor. I'll use 16GB Corsair ValueSelect memory. I will also be upgrading my SDD from 120GB to a 250GB Samsung 870 EVO and will do a fresh install of MX19.3. So to the question - will the standard MX19 be OK or should I go for the AHS version?

Phil

[j2mcgreg]

I think that your graphics card is dying / dead. If your graphics card is integrated into the motherboard, then your only option is to replace the motherboard. However if it's a discreet card you should only have to replace the card.
As to your question: if you intend to use parts that are newly on the market then you should use the AHS version. However if they are more than a year old ( a lot of stores are using the shortages caused by the pandemic to clear out old inventory), the standard version of MX will be fine.

[JayM]

Well, this is now a reproducible problem. Rebooting after a shut down results in no video, unless the system has been down for a number of hours (I've only tested overnight).

I was having a similar issue several weeks ago. It turned out to be that one of the two ATX power cables from my PSU wasn't quite properly seated in the mothernoard's connector causing it to work its way out of the socket slightly after many hot/cold cycles. So before spending a bunch of money on new components try reseating all of your motherboard's power connectors as well as your memory modules, video card (if it's a discrete PCI-E one), etc. (I ended up replacing everything anyway because I wasn't sure I could trust 9 to 10 year old kit anymore and wanted to reduce the risk of downtime due to component failures, but it's up to you if you want to see if it's possible to squeeze some more life out of what you already have.)

[Gaer Boy]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check the motherboard connections in a few days, when I can afford the time to test. It will be interesting - there's very little room to reach the cables or components in a mini-ITX case. I will probably have to disconnect other cables to get my hands in.

[agnivo007]

One of my usual recipes (generally I do this every 6-9 months for a desktop box) is, I dismantle it completely, blow, brush/wipe with isopropyl (only the eligible ones) the components and reassemble them.

However, your case maybe related to old battery of BIOS, check if settings are stored and time lags or not. Take out the battery, wipe with clean cloth, reseat and reconfigure BIOS. Also, the shutdown-boot no display issue may also come from windows quick-boot or the like (pseudo shutdown). A faulty/failing PSU can also cause this. Check voltage readouts in BIOS. I remember once I saw a PSU giving out 14.6V instead of 12V.

Yes, I'm most interested in tiny form factor machines and built one mini-ITX system in 2009 for myself. Board got busted a few years ago (very low voltage mains due to a storm). Now have an old HP thin client running.

[Gaer Boy]

@agnivo007 Dismantling and reassembling this box would be a full day's work. There are 6 panels to remove just to get adequate access to connections and components. I wouldn't fancy doing it on a regular basis. That said, it's definitely the best case of any size that I have used and the first where I haven't had to wear gloves to prevent cuts from raw edges.

I think I misunderstood the problem from the beginning and it probably isn't a graphics issue. From where I sit, I can see clearly the LED on the optical drive but not the HDD LED, so I hadn't noticed that on the failed boots the HDD LED doesn't show. On normal boots both LEDs light briefly before the BIOS screen appears. So it looks as though it could be a power connection issue. I have an SSD, 2 x HDDs and the DVD drive in the machine. The PSU is semi-modular and I have the SSD & one HDD powered from one outlet and the other HDD & DVD from another. I will try changing the cabling and see what happens.

Unfortunately, that's a bit of a struggle. I will have to remove both side panels, the front panel and the front case fan to get my hands into the narrow space. I've checked the PSU outputs - spot on, all 3 voltages about 0.02V above nominal. The BIOS battery is OK and the motherboard came with all the secure/quick boot features disabled, so that rules out most else. I tried removing the ATX power cables from the motherboard but they are securely latched - pushing them in was fairly easy but removing them will be fun. There's not much room to grip them.

I may not be able to solve this before AMD cpus come back into stock, when I will rebuild. Meanwhile, the machine runs happily 24/7.

[Gaer Boy]

Can anyone shed some light on this? I'm trying to determine whether the problem is likely to be with the motherboard or the power supply. The component shortage means that I'm unlikely to be able to replace the motherboard for a while, but replacing the power supply is a possibility. I have now completed testing and the behaviour is as follows.

1. Restarts and soft reboots using the reset button work fine. Hard reboots after shutdown only happen after the machine has been off for a number of hours (more than four). This seems to indicate a problem involving capacitors.

2. On a failed boot, the HDD indicator LED does not light at all, but the LED on the optical drive does. This seems to rule out a power supply problem - one HDD and the optical drive are on the same power cable.

3. After a failed boot, the machine can only be shut down by powering off at the wall socket. Holding the power button or using the reset button does not work. Both work as expected when the machine is running normally.

4. I can't find any reference to POST beeps for this motherboard (AsRock FM2A88X-ITX+). I've checked all BIOS settings and the only sounds are on exiting some of the BIOS screens.

I can't easily identify the PSU without shutting down the machine. I didn't make a note of it in 2014, but it's probably an Antec 500W Bronze modular unit.

[j2mcgreg]

Another possibility to this problem is that your motherboard's cmos battery needs to be replaced. They only last about seven years and a dying battery can cause all kinds of weird actions by the bios. A cr2032 button cell only costs about $4.00 here and I figure that would be about two pounds in the UK.

[agnivo007]

Change the battery, even if it shows correct voltage on a meter. Oh, genuine Panasonic/Maxell ones cost $0.8 and copies sell for $0.3 here. $4 is too costly for a button cell!

I think if the OP finally wants to give a try, he should do the disassembly+cleanup as suggested before along with the battery change.