systemd-homed is coming: mobile home live USBs

[Head_on_a_Stick]

You said "optional", I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or what?

I am serious: systemd provides many optional features: networkd, resolved, timesyncd, bootd, nspawn, etc. No sign of any of them being made compulsory. In fact Fedora's very own Core version has recently dropped systemd-networkd as it's default networking tool.

[SwampRabbit]

I am serious: systemd provides many optional features: networkd, resolved, timesyncd, bootd, nspawn, etc. No sign of any of them being made compulsory. In fact Fedora's very own Core version has recently dropped systemd-networkd as it's default networking tool.

Optional means there should be hard dependencies and last I checked those things and many others cannot be removed.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

Optional means there should be hard dependencies and last I checked those things and many others cannot be removed.

Debian separates out the nspawn feature into the systemd-container package so you are categorically wrong on that count. And the other features I named are all included in the systemd package itself so there are no "hard dependencies" at all.

EDIT: the named features can all be disabled at compile time, that what the deb-src repositories are for

[winemaker]

You said "optional", I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or what?

I am serious: systemd provides many optional features: networkd, resolved, timesyncd, bootd, nspawn, etc. No sign of any of them being made compulsory. In fact Fedora's very own Core version has recently dropped systemd-networkd as it's default networking tool.

i suggest that maybe you do not use mx and stay with debian as you probably are using already and for sure are extremely vocal and condescending on their forums. ( i could not ever figure out what you were doing here after seeing your many sketchy posts on the debian forums. yes - you know more tha i will ever know about linux - - - yet your holier than though attitude for people that are not to your level turns so many people off to debian. quite said indeed. maybe too many hrs. on the old bike seat.)

sorry admins and mods. had to...

:-)))

[Eadwine Rose]

Mod note: If you have issues with fellow users that require our attention please use the report function. Backseat modding is not allowed.

[winemaker]

ok thanks - i will refrain from participating and contrinuting to this forum unless i run into issues with mx. Thanks - my apologies.

[imschmeg]

Oh, wow. Sorry for bringing this up, I guess. Invoking systemd does what it usually does...

But, just try to imagine this capability and try not to think of under what umbrella it is brought into Linux. Suppose we have truly portable home dirs. What does that do?

1. Trying a new distro is as easy as: take live image, take your fav home dir, plug them in together, and go. In fact, that is no longer just trying, that would be what you always do. Whether the system is a live image or installed would not matter at all. The fact that the system and your home dir have never met before would not matter. No need to start a homedir from scratch or tie up loose ends when porting an old one - just plug-n-play.

2. Backup restore: I have a backup of my home dir from a while ago, and recall that it had some setting/feature that I've lost. Take that old homedir, plug it into my current system with my current homedir, and run them both side-by-side to compare. Don't even need to log out or reboot to do this.

3. Yes - the suspend-to-RAM cleartext password issue is finally resolved.

4. Maybe there's a security issue when anyone with their own homedir/password can log into any system? User firewalls, anyone?

5. Monolithic Debian-stable-style new release upgrades no longer fill us with dread. You can plug your existing homedir into the new release live image to try it out before committing. Or, as with #1 above, plug-n-play becomes how you do big upgrades - there is no "committing".

6. Enclose a small homedir in a container with some apps it uses. Your email + passwords with your fav email client, for instance. Plug it in, runs anywhere, no need to log out any other users.

I know some of these things must appeal to some people in this forum. We often discuss and attempt to implement independence of homedir from DE/WM, for instance. There have been discussions about coping with the Debian-stable new release upgrades, and how to mitigate their impact. And many of us list the awesome MX/antiX live ISO/USB tools as one of the reasons why we love MX.

But, "systemd", even if it gives you the advantages listed above (and I'm not saying systemd-homed is going to do so immediately - it sounds pretty clear that it won't), remains "systemd". To be reviled.

I have for years watched this debate, waiting for someone on the pro-systemd side to come up with a compelling argument. This is the best yet, IMO. So, now I will wait for someone to come up with a compelling counter-argument, and "It's BLOAT!" won't be good enough. It's only truly bloat if it doesn't do anything useful that can't be done some easier/lighter/freer way (OK - that argument did work against some other systemd ideas). Also, the "It ties you DOWN!" argument won't cut it either - as quite obviously the above list suggests the opposite - it does tie you to the capability of having truly mobile homedirs, but that's a rather ironic argument. This is systemd providing (the potential for) freedom that we don't otherwise have, and which has many uses. If someone can make a compelling case like what I started in #4 above, then that's the kind of thing that I would consider.

[SwampRabbit]

You case, opinion, and considerations are yours to have, no doubt about that. But as this always goes in a circular fashion, I will leave it to this.

MX Linux ships with systemd present but disabled by default. The MX Linux team strongly urges users to remain with this configuration which uses sysvinit instead...

Finally, which init system to use is by no means an open and shut case for many people. MX LInux follows the lead of anticapitalista, Bitjam, and the rest of the antiX dev team.

https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/systemd/

If this thread is about compelling people, counter-arguing, etc, etc... please reference the above link.

[freemedia2018]

Fragmentation is a long-standing issue in the GNU/Linux ecosystem: https://xkcd.com/927/

was this meant to be ironic? xkcd 927 doesnt exactly support what systemd is doing, it specifically mocks standards with the ambition to be an over-arching unifier-- which describes not only systemd but also this particular rationale for it. fragmentation is exactly what you will always get when you have widespread adoption of gnu/linux and people arent forced to do things the same way. systemd has produced further fragmentation, by people who dont appreciate being forced to do things red hats way and left behind other systems specifically to have choice and some control in the matter. it is practically a feature, as far as those users are concerned.

i was always very happy i didnt have to do things the way fedora does. i still am. referring to choice as "fragmentation" doesnt make it a bad thing. one of the best things about mx is that it respects that choice. not that it has to, but something should. designing things to be legitimately modular (not tying everything together in every way but a superficial one) also respects choice.