To systemd or not systemd - Ever wonder about it?

[zimbodel]

Nice try to troll me, by accusing me of being someone I am not.
Troll? Look in the mirror Maybe ? with this attempt of yours.
There is definitely more than one person with systemd trouble .. it is quite an uproar if you take your systemd headphones off.

I came to MX from one of your developers giving me very kind help.
MX have great people and I have no trouble with any person here. I was happy with it until I saw what a baitball it really is.
Not really MXs fault it is Debian at fault for creating this mess.

However it is Irrelevant as systemd uninstalled kills Mx

That's FALSE. Are you the same guy from Google Plus? I responded to a similar incorrect, possibly lying and trollish claim with this:

Also, regardless of your wrong reasoning your claim that you base your fallacy upon is simply incorrect, nothing happens if you remove systemd, some libs get installed some removed as one would expect, everything works just fine, Try it.. and stop lying. Nobody likes lying activists that have an ax to grind.

[zimbodel]

Its fine, I can live with trouble if I know where it comes from and then get solutions from there.
What I cant live with is this subterfuge that comes from dubious initializing of the system which is a fundamental issue.
So, I will go the other way and support those distros , even financially as this time it is a very very serious fork.


https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/debian-wi ... md-devuan/
[/quote]

And you'll find it even more impossible to run those outside programs that rely on systemd on Devuan than MX, since they removed the option.
[/quote]

[zimbodel]

Adrian wrote: ↑

Also, regardless of your wrong reasoning your claim that you base your fallacy upon is simply incorrect, nothing happens if you remove systemd, some libs get installed some removed as one would expect, everything works just fine, Try it.. and stop lying. Nobody likes lying activists that have an ax to grind.

BTW Which axe and activism for what ? This is becoming surreal accusations with no basis.

I rather point out your gross inaccuracies and false claims.
see below.



Oh yeah? !!!!

Then why if I try to uninstall systemd I get the following... (Lol! even mx-installer depnds on systemd )

The following packages will be REMOVED:
brasero colord fskbsetting gnome-disk-utility gufw gvfs gvfs-backends gvfs-daemons gvfs-fuse k3b
libpam-systemd mx-installer mx-repo-manager nautilus network-manager network-manager-gnome
network-manager-openconnect network-manager-pptp network-manager-vpnc policykit-1
policykit-1-gnome rtkit synaptic systemd systemd-sysv systemd-ui udisks2

Then .....
The following NEW packages will be installed:
sysvinit-core

I thought, sysvinit is the defaullt ??

Go figure

# apt remove systemd
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
brasero-common gazelle-installer-data-mx gir1.2-polkit-1.0 grub-efi-ia32-bin libbrasero-media3-1
libcolorhug2 libcrack2 libpwquality-common libpwquality1 pptp-linux
Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them.
The following additional packages will be installed:
sysvinit-core
The following packages will be REMOVED:
brasero colord fskbsetting gnome-disk-utility gufw gvfs gvfs-backends gvfs-daemons gvfs-fuse k3b
libpam-systemd mx-installer mx-repo-manager nautilus network-manager network-manager-gnome
network-manager-openconnect network-manager-pptp network-manager-vpnc policykit-1
policykit-1-gnome rtkit synaptic systemd systemd-sysv systemd-ui udisks2
The following NEW packages will be installed:
sysvinit-core
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 27 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 135 kB of archives.
After this operation, 61.3 MB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]

[asqwerth]

Looks like you installed gnome desktop first. Lots of non-default packages in that list.

How was it done?

[zimbodel]

asqwerth, good observation.

yes I installed it much later and I already had these problems way before I installed it as the MX interface was severely restrictive and basically unusable. Had more the feel of an arcade game.
In the end I use XFCE as window manager and it works way waybetter than the MX window manager default.

For my Desktops, MX is the best distro I came accross so far, except for the perpetual systemd nightmare which makes anything "server" unpleasant.
systemd probably comes from the same place as securelinux. It has the same feel and evangelism.

I didnt installed it on servers and definitely never will install MX on servers. It would have been great as I could have good use for it, but they will run vanilla sysv No systemd Debian flavor there end of story.

[Adrian]

Also, regardless of your wrong reasoning your claim that you base your fallacy upon is simply incorrect, nothing happens if you remove systemd, some libs get installed some removed as one would expect, everything works just fine, Try it.. and stop lying. Nobody likes lying activists that have an ax to grind.

Oh yeah? !!!!

Then why if I try to uninstall systemd I get the following... (Lol! even mx-installer depnds on systemd )

The following packages will be REMOVED:
brasero colord fskbsetting gnome-disk-utility gufw gvfs gvfs-backends gvfs-daemons gvfs-fuse k3b
libpam-systemd mx-installer mx-repo-manager nautilus network-manager network-manager-gnome
network-manager-openconnect network-manager-pptp network-manager-vpnc policykit-1
policykit-1-gnome rtkit synaptic systemd systemd-sysv systemd-ui udisks2

Then .....
The following NEW packages will be installed:
sysvinit-core

I thought, sysvinit is the defaullt ??

Go figure

# apt remove systemd
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
brasero-common gazelle-installer-data-mx gir1.2-polkit-1.0 grub-efi-ia32-bin libbrasero-media3-1
libcolorhug2 libcrack2 libpwquality-common libpwquality1 pptp-linux
Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them.
The following additional packages will be installed:
sysvinit-core
The following packages will be REMOVED:
brasero colord fskbsetting gnome-disk-utility gufw gvfs gvfs-backends gvfs-daemons gvfs-fuse k3b
libpam-systemd mx-installer mx-repo-manager nautilus network-manager network-manager-gnome
network-manager-openconnect network-manager-pptp network-manager-vpnc policykit-1
policykit-1-gnome rtkit synaptic systemd systemd-sysv systemd-ui udisks2
The following NEW packages will be installed:
sysvinit-core
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 27 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 135 kB of archives.
After this operation, 61.3 MB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]

You are either a lying weasel or you messed up your system. I just did a MX-18.1 fresh install and just did a aptitude upgrade, look here:

Code: Select all

 dpkg -l sysv*
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name                                 Version                 Architecture            Description
+++-====================================-=======================-=======================-==============================================================================
ii  sysv-rc                              2.88dsf-59.9            all                     System-V-like runlevel change mechanism
ii  sysv-rc-conf                         0.99-7                  all                     SysV init runlevel configuration tool for the terminal
un  sysvinit                             <none>                  <none>                  (no description available)
ii  sysvinit-core                        2.88dsf-59.9            amd64                   System-V-like init utilities
ii  sysvinit-utils                       2.88dsf-59.9            amd64                   System-V-like utilities

See.... sysvinit-core is preinstalled, how come you don't have it on your system?

[zimbodel]

How must I know why it is not on my system.
I did not roll up a distro called MX.
I dont know why I would go through this effort to lie. But it seems important to you as your only real defense.
I can only report what I find.

Here is what I run from a clean install. System was never "messed up"
I did a clean install and systemd is clearly running as I showed above but which you seemingly MUST counter as false.
$ cat /proc/version
Linux version 4.19.0-1-amd64 (stevep@mxlinux.org) (gcc version 6.3.0 20170516 (Debian 6.3.0-18+deb9u1)) #1 SMP Debian 4.19.5-2~mx17+1 (2018-12-12)

Was a fast clean install .... a bit too fast I would say. But unlike you I dont jump/to conclusions.

And by the way your dpkg -l is a bit misleading.
Here is mine.......basically similar than yours, but the proof in the pudding is what apt wants to install, when systemd is uninstalled.
I really dont know what you tried to prove.

# dpkg -l sysv*
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name Version Architecture Description
+++-===================-==============-==============-===========================================
ii sysv-rc 2.88dsf-59.9 all System-V-like runlevel change mechanism
ii sysv-rc-conf 0.99-7 all SysV init runlevel configuration tool for t
un sysvinit <none> <none> (no description available)
rc sysvinit-core 2.88dsf-59.9 amd64 System-V-like init utilities
ii sysvinit-utils 2.88dsf-59.9 amd64 System-V-like utilities

[Adrian]

How must I know why it is not on my system.
I did not roll up a distro called MX.
I dont know why I would go through this effort to lie. But it seems important to you as your only real defense.
I can only report what I find.

Here is what I run from a clean install. System was never "messed up"
I did a clean install and systemd is clearly running as I showed above but which you seemingly MUST counter as false.
$ cat /proc/version
Linux version 4.19.0-1-amd64 (stevep@mxlinux.org) (gcc version 6.3.0 20170516 (Debian 6.3.0-18+deb9u1)) #1 SMP Debian 4.19.5-2~mx17+1 (2018-12-12)

Did you fix antix expired key problem? That would stop you from getting the packages that you need to replace some of the dependencies. That's one of the problem I had with the new installation

Was a fast clean install .... a bit too fast I would say. But unlike you I dont jump/to conclusions.

I can install MX in Virtual Box in 5 minutes or so. I actually installed it again because I messed the testing because of the antix repo problem.

[asqwerth]

That's why I asked how you installed gnome (eg which packages, from what source, what was removed in the midst of installing those packages, etc) .

Because the most likely conclusion from your posts here , as well as an earlier post about not having samba on your system, is that whatever you did or installed earlier, removed sysv and various default packages.

[Adrian]

Screenshot from ISO, you can see how sysvinit-core is installed on ISO anybody can check that.