Updating Flatpacks -- Yes or No? [Solved]

[Solon]

I started using Odysee, which works on top of a program called LBRY, a new kind of block-chain based 'browser', not a traditional browser. I found and downloaded the LBRY program through the MXPI underneath the Flatpack TAB a couple of months ago.

Works fine, no problems. Today, I got a notice when starting up LBRY that my software was 'outdated' and they had a couple of small upgrades to add. So I downloaded the upgrade 'package', and started into the install process. As I looked at the instructions, red flags popped up in my mind. MX is not pure Debian, it has its own installer routines, etc. So I backed out and came here. Looking at some postings on the forum, it is clear that upgrading flatpacks is rather a hit-or-miss proposition.

Now two things: First these upgrades are minor, and I can live without them. Second, in the upgrade instructions, they suggested that instead of using the automated upgrade, I could do it manually, with the following code:

sudo dpkg -i /run/user/1000/app/io.lbry.lbry-app/Ii4qHV/LBRY_0.52.4.deb

Questions:

1. Is it safe to run the above in Yakuake? Will it work in MX, or am I rolling the proverbial dice?
2. With Flatpacks, if you Uninstall them, and then Re-Install them from time to time, will the new updates appear that way?

Appreciate any input on this, since I suspect I will get these messages on-going in future, and I would like to know what action, if any, is appropriate?

Code: Select all

System:    Kernel: 5.10.0-5mx-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 8.3.0 
           parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.10.0-5mx-amd64 root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet 
           splash 
           Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.14.5 wm: kwin_x11 vt: 7 dm: SDDM Distro: MX-19.4_kde_x64 patito feo March 31  2021 
           base: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) 
Machine:   Type: Laptop System: TOSHIBA product: Satellite P770 v: PSBY1U-009005 serial: <filter> Chassis: type: 10 
           serial: <filter> 
           Mobo: TOSHIBA model: PHRAA v: 1.00 serial: <filter> BIOS: TOSHIBA v: 2.20 date: 10/30/2012 
Battery:   ID-1: BAT1 charge: 5.3 Wh (100.0%) condition: 5.3/48.6 Wh (10.9%) volts: 12.2 min: 10.8 
           model: COMPAL PABAS0241231 type: Li-ion serial: <filter> status: Unknown 
CPU:       Info: Dual Core model: Intel Core i5-2410M bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Sandy Bridge family: 6 model-id: 2A (42) 
           stepping: 7 microcode: 2F cache: L2: 3 MiB 
           flags: avx lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 18358 
           Speed: 1435 MHz min/max: 800/2900 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1435 2: 1209 3: 1454 4: 1365 
           Vulnerabilities: Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: VMX disabled 
           Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion; VMX: conditional cache flushes, SMT vulnerable 
           Type: mds mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable 
           Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI 
           Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl and seccomp 
           Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization 
           Type: spectre_v2 
           mitigation: Full generic retpoline, IBPB: conditional, IBRS_FW, STIBP: conditional, RSB filling 
           Type: srbds status: Not affected 
           Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected 
Graphics:  Device-1: Intel 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics vendor: Toshiba driver: i915 v: kernel 
           bus-ID: 00:02.0 chip-ID: 8086:0116 class-ID: 0300 
           Device-2: Alcor Micro type: USB driver: uvcvideo bus-ID: 3-1.4:3 chip-ID: 058f:b003 class-ID: 0e02 
           serial: <filter> 
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.10 compositor: kwin_x11 driver: loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa 
           display-ID: :0 screens: 1 
           Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1360x768 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 358x202mm (14.1x8.0") s-diag: 411mm (16.2") 
           Monitor-1: HDMI-1 res: 1360x768 hz: 60 dpi: 39 size: 885x498mm (34.8x19.6") diag: 1015mm (40") 
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel HD Graphics 3000 (SNB GT2) v: 3.3 Mesa 20.3.4 compat-v: 3.0 direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Device-1: Intel 6 Series/C200 Series Family High Definition Audio vendor: Toshiba driver: snd_hda_intel 
           v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:1c20 class-ID: 0403 
           Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k5.10.0-5mx-amd64 running: yes 
           Sound Server-2: PulseAudio v: 12.2 running: yes 
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: Toshiba driver: r8169 v: kernel 
           port: e000 bus-ID: 02:00.0 chip-ID: 10ec:8168 class-ID: 0200 
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
           Device-2: Qualcomm Atheros AR9285 Wireless Network Adapter vendor: Lite-On driver: ath9k v: kernel modules: wl 
           port: e000 bus-ID: 03:00.0 chip-ID: 168c:002b class-ID: 0280 
           IF: wlan0 state: down mac: <filter> 
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 596.17 GiB used: 46.84 GiB (7.9%) 
           SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required. 
           ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Hitachi model: HTS547564A9E384 size: 596.17 GiB block-size: 
           physical: 4096 B logical: 512 B speed: 3.0 Gb/s type: HDD rpm: 5400 serial: <filter> rev: A60B scheme: MBR 
Partition: ID-1: / raw-size: 19.92 GiB size: 19.48 GiB (97.80%) used: 12.61 GiB (64.7%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda6 
           maj-min: 8:6 
           ID-2: /home raw-size: 194.15 GiB size: 190.1 GiB (97.91%) used: 34.23 GiB (18.0%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda7 
           maj-min: 8:7 
Swap:      Kernel: swappiness: 15 (default 60) cache-pressure: 100 (default) 
           ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 12.21 GiB used: 1.5 MiB (0.0%) priority: -2 dev: /dev/sda5 maj-min: 8:5 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 64.0 C mobo: N/A 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
Repos:     Packages: 2533 note: see --pkg apt: 2525 lib: 1433 flatpak: 8 
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list 
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list 
           1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list 
           1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
           2: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list 
           1: deb http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo/ buster main non-free
           2: deb http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo/ buster ahs
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/signal-xenial-added-by-mxpi.list 
           1: deb [arch=amd64] https://updates.signal.org/desktop/apt xenial main
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list 
Info:      Processes: 219 Uptime: 3h 23m wakeups: 3 Memory: 5.72 GiB used: 1.97 GiB (34.5%) Init: SysVinit v: 2.93 
           runlevel: 5 default: 5 tool: systemctl Compilers: gcc: 8.3.0 alt: 8 Shell: quick-system-in default: Bash 
           v: 5.0.3 running-in: quick-system-in inxi: 3.3.06 

Thanks

[asqwerth]

Why can't you go to the Flatpak tab in MXPI, and click on the "update all" button?

The whole point of flatpaks is that it's a portable application platform/framework that is installed and runs separate from the rest of the normal system dependencies and packages of Debian.

Where did you get the deb file from anyway? Are you sure that the deb is compatible with Debian Bullseye Buster?

[Mauser]

LBRY program is the only program I had from Flatpak that I had an issue with. You can upgrade it in Flatpak but it still might show that it needs to be still upgraded when you start it like what happened to me a few days ago. I did the upgrade from the LBRY program which worked except it destroyed Firefox. I had to re-install Firefox and thankfully all my bookmarks and settings weren't affected. I uninstalled the Flatpak version and left the new installed version which was in the update from LBRY directly.

[Solon]

Why can't you go to the Flatpak tab in MXPI, and click on the "update all" button?

The whole point of flatpaks is that it's a portable application platform/framework that is installed and runs separate from the rest of the normal system dependencies and packages of Debian.

Where did you get the deb file from anyway? Are you sure that the deb is compatible with Debian Bullseye Buster?

That came from the automatic "installation" menu/info pop-up window from LBRY. And NO, I have absolutely no idea what it is compatible with, hence my stopping and asking for directions!

Didn't know about the Upgrade button under Flatpaks, so I went out and tried it. Seemed to work, at least said it did.

LBRY program is the only program I had from Flatpak that I had an issue with. You can upgrade it in Flatpak but it still might show that it needs to be still upgraded when you start it like what happened to me a few days ago. I did the upgrade from the LBRY program which worked except it destroyed Firefox. I had to re-install Firefox and thankfully all my bookmarks and settings weren't affected. I uninstalled the Flatpak version and left the new installed version which was in the update from LBRY directly.

Just like you, Mauser, after I ran the update it still opened with the comment that I needed to "upgrade" the software for the same two version. Now I do not use FireFox, I use Pale Moon, but I tried Firefox and it opened, but in a rather plain vanilla format, with some notices at the top and no preferences (but I never used it), so... I don't know if it was wiped out or not. Pale Moon seems just fine; but it is a fork from Mozilla.

Anyway, Mauser, I understand about "uninstalling" the flatpack, but what exactly do you mean about leaving

...the new installed version which was in the update from LBRY directly.

I am not sure about the process to which you are referring. Do you simply run the automatic upgrade, then uninstall the flatpak? That seems non-intuitive, since the upgrade is not a full program. I await your instructions!

[asqwerth]

LBRY program is the only program I had from Flatpak that I had an issue with. You can upgrade it in Flatpak but it still might show that it needs to be still upgraded when you start it like what happened to me a few days ago. I did the upgrade from the LBRY program which worked except it destroyed Firefox. I had to re-install Firefox and thankfully all my bookmarks and settings weren't affected. I uninstalled the Flatpak version and left the new installed version which was in the update from LBRY directly.

Mauser, was your MX version MX19 or 21? OP is on MX19, so let's be sure whether the deb file is supposed to be compatible with debian 10 or 11. Or worse, it's an Ubuntu deb.

I would also submit that if installing the deb destroyed Firefox, there is even more cause to be careful before just installing a deb file from outside the standard repos.

[Mauser]

Solon, since I am not able to just quote the one sentence I have to reply like this. "Anyway, Mauser, I understand about "uninstalling" the flatpack, but what exactly do you mean about leaving" I don't understand what you mean because I never said anything about "leaving".

The way to correct this issue is to upgrade LBRY from the message it shows that it needs to be upgraded. When it's finished it will log you out of your computer automatically. When you log in, check in the menu and you should find 2 LBRY programs. Uninstall the LBRY version from Flatpaks only if you have 2 LBRY programs. To uninstall the Flatpak version of LBRY: Open the MX Package Installer, select the Flatpaks tab, type in the search feild LBRY, put a check in the box for lbry-app, click uninstall which you can find on the lower right. You should now only have 1 version of LBRY if you were successful.

[Solon]

Sorry about the confusion, Mauser, I come from Win 7 and I assume that the Flatpak is the entire software program package, and that the upgrade, is simply a few lines of code. As I downloaded the "upgrade", it is clear that LBRY is sending a lot more than just a small piece of code.

Solon, since I am not able to just quote the one sentence I have to reply like this. "Anyway, Mauser, I understand about "uninstalling" the flatpack, but what exactly do you mean about leaving" I don't understand what you mean because I never said anything about "leaving".

The way to correct this issue is to upgrade LBRY from the message it shows that it needs to be upgraded. When it's finished it will log you out of your computer automatically. When you log in, check in the menu and you should find 2 LBRY programs. Uninstall the LBRY version from Flatpaks only if you have 2 LBRY programs. To uninstall the Flatpak version of LBRY: Open the MX Package Installer, select the Flatpaks tab, type in the search field LBRY, put a check in the box for lbry-app, click uninstall which you can find on the lower right. You should now only have 1 version of LBRY if you were successful.

However I again hesitated because of two things:

1. Asqwerth notes that I am currently running Buster in MX 19.4. So, did your success also happen in 19.4, or are you running the new MX 21 software based on the newest Debian release?
2. After I downloaded the "upgrade", it asks if I want to open the new Upgrade under a program called "Ark" or "QApt Package Installer". In reviewing the Forum, I see that both have been successfully used to 'access' files of various types. Which did you use?

Soooo, Mauser, I will wait for your reply as to the MX version you are running, and what you used to open and then install the file before following through on your otherwise excellent suggestion.

Finally, LBRY got quirky when I tried to re-access the Upgrade. After I rebooted, however, it came up as before, and allowed me to run as usual and download the upgrade.

(P.S. For the record, I am waiting until after Tax season before I save and back everything up, then switch to MX 21. Looking forward to the new OS!)

[unklebonehead]

If you installed the Flatpack version only upgrade through Flatpack. If you installed it through apt use apt. Dont download an upgrade on your own. Always update/upgrade through the MX Package Installer. It will handle the downloading of the correct packages for your system. If it doesnt show an update available then the package maintainer has not submitted it.

This is the biggest failing and the greatest things of Linux IMO. I switched to Linux in 2010 and it took me quite a long time to understand the different packaging systems. To make a long story short no matter the system (apt, snap, flatpack, appimage, etc) you use to install an app go back to that system to install updates and upgrades. Keep it simple. Dont worry about always having the latest and greatest (unless its a security issue). Chances are whatever app you are using will continue to work forever.



This is also why MX Package Installer is the greatest installer of any distro around. The only complaint I have about it is could be a little prettier with some screenshots of apps and such. But thats just

[asqwerth]

Sorry about the confusion, I come from Win and I assume that the Flatpak is the entire software program package, and that the upgrade, is simply a few lines of code. As I downloaded the "upgrade", it is clear that LBRY is sending a lot more than just a small piece of code.

However I again hesitated because of two things:

1. Asqwerth notes that I am currently running Buster in MX 19.4. So, did your success also happen in 19.4, or are you running the new MX 21 software based on the newest Debian release?
2. After I downloaded the "upgrade", it asks if I want to open and run the new Upgrade under a program called "Apt" or under something called which I don't now remember. Which did you use?

Finally, I just tried to reload LBRY, and it would come up, but no longer load the Upgrade. After trying a couple times, it will not come up past the empty startup screen. I will reboot, and report back.

I don't know anything about LBRY or the deb he used, so I'll leave it to Mauser to clarify.

However, "apt" is the package management system used in Debian and Ubuntu systems. That's what is used under the hood when you use the graphical MXPI (except for flatpak tab) or Synaptic or MX-updater, or just straight up apt commands in terminal. Note that just because apt management system is the same, doesn't mean a .deb package built for Debian of a particular release is the same as a .deb file for another Debian release or an Ubuntu .deb. They will all contain different components within (dependencies, libraries, etc). It's like you can wrap 2 boxes in the same paper and bow, but the contents can be different. That's why you should not just install a deb file willy nilly without knowing what distro/release a deb file was made for. Even if it came from the official website. Some sites really don't make it clear. They just say "for Debian" but don't say which release of Debian they mean.


On the other hand, think of the flatpak system as a whole framework that allows flatpak Apps which are of newer versions and with newer dependencies to be installed and run independently of the native apps and dependencies. In order to do that it not only installs the stuff contained in the flatpak app itself, but also a "runtime" (which is like the underlying base environment, and which may be newer than the native environment) in which the flatpak app can run. So when a flatpak app is upgraded to a newer version that needs a newer runtime, not only is the new flatpak update installed, but a whole new runtime is also installed to be part of your flatpak framework. Each runtime can amount to 1 GB or more. That is why an upgrade/install can take so long. Once that particular runtime version is installed, if another flatpak app on your system is upgraded and needs that same runtime version, it doesn't need to reinstall it because you have it on your flatpak system already.


However, note that in the MXPI flatpak tab, we have a button near the bottom right called "remove unused runtimes". Say all your flatpaks are now using a newer runtime (this doesn't happen all at once because different flatpak packages are updated at different rates) and the old runtime is no longer needed. You can click on that button to remove that old one(s) and save significant space on your MX system.


PS. previously you said MX is not pure Debian. THe main difference is that MX packaging team does rebuild some newer versions of applications to be compatible with the particular Debian release you are on. So there are some newer packages in MX than the pure Debian release. However, the packages from MX are binary-compatible with the Debian version it was built for. Apart from that, the native package management system is the same (apt).

PPS. For future, CAREFUL, INFORMED, KNOWLEDGEABLE USE, you can install .deb file by rightclicking on the file while in Dolphin: from the context menu, go to "Actions" >> "Install Deb Files". But I suggest not to do anything until @Mauser gives more info. In the meantime, if you have not removed your flatpak version, I don't see why you can't upgrade it. If the "nag" notice doesn't stop its functionality, maybe live with it for the moment?

PPPS. When you left clicked on the deb file, Ark (a file archiver) tried to open it because ultimately deb files are archive files containing various packages and libraries within.

[Mauser]

Solon , I don't code, I have no knowledge of coding, and I have no interested in coding. I believe in using the Graphical User Interface since it's 2022. I am running MX21 Xfce. I used LBRY to install the updated version since Flatpak wouldn't fully update it successfully. You can use Synaptic or for more polish you can use Gnome Software Center.