MX Linux Forum

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2025 2:47 pm**

First, hello after a long time. I am a fan of MX Linux, my daily driver on most of my machines. Awesome work, thank you MX Linux team, and supportive people on forums.
Disclaimer: English is not my native language, nor I am too educated in its usage. I will surely make many errors in this post, not only grammar, but maybe even not optimal selection of words. I hope readers won't mind, and recognize my good intent.

I will start with a light joke:
Do you know, what is an opposite to Artificial Intelligence? Natural dumbness.

Maybe I am a bit hot tempered sometimes...
But I feel a real regret for one relatively fresh member of these forums, with nick "leanLux".
I almost think I should not believe my eyes.

I am referring to the thread titled "0.) Artificial intelligence installation from A-Z [Solved]"
First, I am absolutely for respecting forum rules. These are necessary, and we all should obey.

But... The "judges" should also not only briefly, superficially comprehend words of "the accused", but show also humanity, and search for real meaning, intents. If the person judged really shows malicious intents, or are only a bit careless.
Without maliciousness.

Someone first showing condemning tone, suspected of being AI, just because of errors in human expressions?
And then, when that person clearly, without malicious intent, with a tone of humor tried to "comb" his "bad" expressing ability with the help of some tool, similair to translator? (yes, nowadays AI can be used also for translation, and I hope we all can benefit from it), the judge slayed the poor because of writing this explicitly?

What if I use some kind of translator, to help me express in language, where I am not fluent in? Or you are completely banning from this forum those users, who are using a translator?
Where is it stated?

If this deed of using "translator kind of tool" for achieving better grammar, was such a sin against the rules, shouldn't the judge at least show some mercy and compassion, issue a "nono" first, that here even help of an AI to correct grammar of phrasing is not tolerated, and only after second transgression "slay" this poor person?

It seems to me like the judge was just waiting for the first smallest transgression, for being justified to issue "first warning".

But in this context I consider it very harsh, nonhuman, flexing.
I have evaluated (my personal POV, ofc) this forum member - leanLux - as supportive, friendly, kind, without malitious intent.
And I am too fairly interested in what he wanted to present.

Whenever in the past I visited these forums, I found it refreshing, friendly, supportive, and even tolerating small transgressions not done with maliciousness.
But what I saw today, makes me very sad. I hope it was by a mistake, because we all are humans and are susceptible to bad mood, etc.

Regards,
Andy

Second disclaimer: I have NOT used any AI tool to write this message, or for assistance with it. I have used only keyboard, and all the hardware and software stack beneath it, complelety until it was written into the forum database. Was AI somewhere? Was AI used in some form to make components used? I do not know...

OH, Sorry, I have used software dictionary. Am I free of transgression, or not? What if some form of AI was used during creation of the vocabulary?

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:18 pm**

andy wrote: Mon Aug 04, 2025 2:47 pm What if I use some kind of translator, to help me express in language, where I am not fluent in? Or you are completely banning from this forum those users, who are using a translator?
Where is it stated?

I use Deepl when I want to help out members who post in the Other Languages section of the forum because English is my first and only language I know.

Do I consider translators to be AI? No. There just a database of words collected that have been translated from one language to another.
Are they perfect? Absolutely not. I've seen my translations change between the various translators out there which make it harder for me to get the context correct for those I'm trying to help.

It seems to me like the judge was just waiting for the first smallest transgression, for being justified to issue "first warning".

I didn't issue a warning but was merely pointing out the rules concerning AI.
We can all have discussions about AI until the cows come home but please don't use it to post code, tutorials, etc.
*side note: I will never use AI to get help...Call me old fashioned but I prefer to see the multitude of answers from many users as opposed to a CliffsNotes version of my question.

If your trying to get an AI program installed on MX and are running into problems/issues, then we can try to help you. That's what the forum is all about. Helping others.

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:22 pm**

don't use it to post code, tutorials, etc.

Why not, I use it to write code and tutorials -- see mx-conky changes, it was mostly done with AI tools.

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:27 pm**

Adrian wrote: Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:22 pm
don't use it to post code, tutorials, etc.
Why not, I use it to write code and tutorials -- see mx-conky changes, it was mostly done with AI tools.

@Adrian I'm merely quoting what I see in the forum rules.

AI generated posts, code and respins are not allowed to be posted.

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:29 pm**

So... I would not be allowed to post code from mx-conky if it was generated by AI? Seems a bit too strict to me...

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:30 pm**

Adrian wrote: Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:22 pm
don't use it to post code, tutorials, etc.
Why not, I use it to write code and tutorials -- see mx-conky changes, it was mostly done with AI tools.

Do we want random users to post AI code? For that matter do we want random users to post any MX code in a public forum?

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:47 pm**

MX code is free for everybody to see and inspect on github, I have no problem is somebody copies a snippet to ask a question, show/fix a bug, etc.

I think the rule is too strict and without any real purpose behind it. I think the ultimate purpose is that you don't want crap posted on the forum, but AI is not the measure for crap that you think it is, plus there's no real way to detect it.

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:52 pm**

richb wrote: Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:30 pm
Adrian wrote: Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:22 pm
don't use it to post code, tutorials, etc.
Why not, I use it to write code and tutorials -- see mx-conky changes, it was mostly done with AI tools.
Do we want random users to post AI code? For that matter do we want random users to post any MX code in a public forum?

"Do we want random users posting AI code?"

My ( ~ balanced) point of view.
No, because AIs can be far too verbose and move far too fast to produce code and text, which is not easily manageable for us, the humans.

However, for the philosophical aspect of the matter, and in order to potentially discuss future prospects, this should be able to be addressed calmly in an MX sub-forum like "General." Even if it's not specific to MX.

However, a forum must remain a dialogue between humans, not a dialogue with machines, no matter how intelligent they may be.

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:53 pm**

Adrian wrote: Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:47 pm MX code is free for everybody to see and inspect on github, I have no problem is somebody copies a snippet to ask a question, show/fix a bug, etc.

I think the rule is too strict and without any real purpose behind it. I think the ultimate purpose is that you don't want crap posted on the forum, but AI is not the measure for crap that you think it is, plus there's no real way to detect it.

You know better than I the conventions for open source software. If I am reading you right you would suggest removing any rule on AI from our Forum Rules. Correct?

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2025 9:20 pm**

To me humans posting short AI generated snippets is fine as long as it has a point and it's on the subject. AI has no relevance if the post is good or not. You can have an atrocious 100% human-made post and a perfectly fine AI-assisted post.

Human posting AI snippets is fine in my opinion as long as it has a reasonable purpose, bots (if you can detect them) are not OK.

But ultimately you are the admin and mods and you know what makes your job easier... just expressing an opinion here.

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2025 9:29 pm**

OK, I will take this to the MOD/Admin Forum and we will discuss this.

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 1:35 am**

AI is fine when it has been checked to the enth degree by a human, however, it needs to be understood that AI is always trying to gain access to our forums and I have caught it out twice and I am not an admin, nor a moderator.

It just happened again today, a first post from a new user account that I am guessing managed to get past the rigours of our human test. It may have been a human using AI, but the post pulled up a thread from November 2023, so not so much a thing a normal person would do and I was a little harsh to what I believe to be a robot, not a human.

@Adrian most everything AI produces contains a signature that is not detectable to most living breathing people, but there are sites like cleanpaste where textual content suspected to be of AI origin can be tested against known AI signatures and content metrics that I for one would not like to find an any code we are using without rigorous evaluation and potential expulsion of the metrics. Don't get me wrong, AI can produce some good code, but it comes with a discalimer for a reason.

Have a look at this post linked below, copy and paste just a portion of it into the cleanpaste site to see for yourselves.
viewtopic.php?t=77874

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 3:42 am**

Seeing a significant number of people against ai, so a rule-change might mean less people on the forum. That could mean more work for those remaining, and less donations/testing etc.

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 4:44 am**

Mauser post_id=827431 time=1754383283 user_id=17631]

andy wrote: Mon Aug 04, 2025 2:47 pm First, hello after a long time. I am a fan of MX Linux, my daily driver on most of my machines. Awesome work, thank you MX Linux team, and supportive people on forums.
Disclaimer: English is not my native language, nor I am too educated in its usage. I will surely make many errors in this post, not only grammar, but maybe even not optimal selection of words. I hope readers won't mind, and recognize my good intent.

I will start with a light joke:
Do you know, what is an opposite to Artificial Intelligence? Natural dumbness.

I am referring to the thread titled "0.) Artificial intelligence installation from A-Z [Solved]"
First, I am absolutely for respecting forum rules. These are necessary, and we all should obey.

But... The "judges" should also not only briefly, superficially comprehend words of "the accused", but show also humanity, and search for real meaning, intents. If the person judged really shows malicious intents, or are only a bit careless.
Without maliciousness.

Someone first showing condemning tone, suspected of being AI, just because of errors in human expressions?
And then, when that person clearly, without malicious intent, with a tone of humor tried to "comb" his "bad" expressing ability with the help of some tool, similair to translator? (yes, nowadays AI can be used also for translation, and I hope we all can benefit from it), the judge slayed the poor because of writing this explicitly?

Regards,
Andy

Second disclaimer: I have NOT used any AI tool to write this message, or for assistance with it. I have used only keyboard, and all the hardware and software stack beneath it, complelety until it was written into the forum database. Was AI somewhere? Was AI used in some form to make components used? I do not know...

OH, Sorry, I have used software dictionary. Am I free of transgression, or not? What if some form of AI was used during creation of the vocabulary?

First let me start off by welcoming to MX LINUX and it's forum, Andy.

With my poor experiences of getting any forum to work as I would expect it too I have left what I am going to answer too in the quote and removed what I am not answering too in the quote.

Your spelling far exceeds my spelling since English is my native language and I have yet to find a spelling checker that works properly and at best they will notify me of my error with no suggestion on how to spell it correctly.

I find your English to be excellent and I complement you on your success in making posts regardless on what ever your methods are used to type out your posts because your posts look better than mine.

I wouldn't worry about any honest mistakes as I never saw or heard of anyone being kicked out or scolded for honest mistakes. I hope that doesn't change because I would be in serious trouble.

As for A.I., in my personal experience A.I. means "Artificial Idiot." In my opinion everything that is feed to A.I. and all results that comes out from A.I. should be reviewed by competent humanbeings and not by some robot, computer, another A.I., and anything else that is not a humanbeing or one that is incompetent.

Calling A.I. is the same as saying "common sense". There is no such thing as common sense since sense is not common.

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 7:53 am**

@Mauser ... The good "common sense" exists because it is shared by a majority of humans.

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 8:43 am**

I just vaguely have to fight the compulsion to set up a BSD PC, run AI on it... and put a sticker on it that says "Daemon Possessed".

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 8:50 am**

Adrian wrote: Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:47 pmI think the rule is too strict and without any real purpose behind it. I think the ultimate purpose is that you don't want crap posted on the forum, but AI is not the measure for crap that you think it is, plus there's no real way to detect it.

Whilst I agree from a technical standpoint (and given the nature of code, the rule does have the potential of false positives and false negatives), I would be concerned about legal ramifications in its current state (especially with the recent vibe-coding trend). Look at a tool like Copilot for example, which I believe is now built into VSCode. Odds are, it is trained on snippets and large chunks of code from proprietary code bases.
I think AI tools are handy to do things that take the time of ordinary humans which could better be spent on something else, for example things like refactoring or other modifications too complex for simple algorithms like regex replacements.

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 9:33 am**

@m_pav you missed that part from the "sneaky" AI post

Code: Select all

# 🤖 Assistance: Microsoft Copilot AI

the rule

AI generated posts, code and respins are not allowed to be posted.

Needs to be clarified. It makes no sense on the face of it. Does it mean no AI agents? I can see those becoming a problem at their current state. AI spam? Spam is already unwelcome. AI can be very useful, if you are aware of it's limitations. You can't just blanket ban it.

@AK-47 AI is legal. What matters is if the end result is too close to pre-existing work. Also, it is already massively in use and most importantly, governments are too scared to fall behind, they will never ban it or restrict it.

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 9:51 am**

exponentialmatrix wrote: Tue Aug 05, 2025 9:33 am@AK-47 AI is legal. What matters is if the end result is too close to pre-existing work. Also, it is already massively in use and most importantly,

It doesn't have to be too close, it is usually a matter of what constitutes a derivative work versus fair use. Case in point: projects such as ReactOS have to be very careful not to include any portion of the Windows source code, or work derived from such. As time goes on we are starting to see case law arriving for AI use, although it is too early to say yet.

exponentialmatrix wrote: Tue Aug 05, 2025 9:33 amgovernments are too scared to fall behind, they will never ban it or restrict it.

Famous last words. Copyright law is quite a funny beast, and a lot of it is case law and international agreements and treaties, not all of this is codified in statutes.

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 11:11 am**

An other problem is the speed at witch AI improves. There's a graph that shows that the amount of work AI can do at 50% accuracy, doubles every 7 months. Any AI related rule can very quickly become obsolete.

The courts decide if it's close enough, and they have to do it one at a time....

Modern AI are neural networks. These are copied from the animal brain and actually are gigantic function approximators. They work like the brain(=humans), trying to apply copyright on them like this, would effectively outlaw robots. That's suicide, no government will do that.

The biological equivalent of backpropagation is the hebb rule. They are not just predicting the next word. The training algorithm causes the training to decompose on layers of increasing abstraction. For example, the lower ones deal with things like short lines or short curves, above it they detect loops, then eyes, then faces, then heads.... finally it determines if it's a cat or a dog. At the bottom it starts with curves and at the top it ends with the abstract concept of cat or dog. This is not just a collage of data, it manipulates abstract ideas.

When AI predicts the next word or pixel, they have an internal abstract representation of what they are doing. They are artificial brains because they were reversed engineered from the animal brain.

golden gate claude (they artificially stimulated the golden bridge neuron)
https://www.anthropic.com/news/golden-gate-claude

If you ask this “Golden Gate Claude” how to spend $10, it will recommend using it to drive
across the Golden Gate Bridge and pay the toll. If you ask it to write a love story, it’ll tell
you a tale of a car who can’t wait to cross its beloved bridge on a foggy day. If you ask it
what it imagines it looks like, it will likely tell you that it imagines it looks like the
Golden Gate Bridge.

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 1:30 pm**

oops wrote: Tue Aug 05, 2025 7:53 am @Mauser ... The good "common sense" exists because it is shared by a majority of humans.

Not in my experience and all family and friends experience. There was a time when sense was common but that has become long gone for over 30 years.

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 1:46 pm**

Mauser wrote: Tue Aug 05, 2025 1:30 pm
oops wrote: Tue Aug 05, 2025 7:53 am @Mauser ... The good "common sense" exists because it is shared by a majority of humans.
Not in my experience and all family and friends experience. There was a time when sense was common but that has become long gone for over 30 years.

It's a factual fact, though; certain notions are shared by all (or almost all) of humanity... I'll let you guess which ones ;-)

It's just a truism.

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 1:54 pm**

I fear that you are dancing in a minefield and maybe should back off on the rhetoric.

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 2:48 pm**

Please keep in mind. The Forum is a site for help with MX Linux. Not for debugging AI code or evaluating AI code.

Posted: **Tue Aug 05, 2025 4:15 pm**

j2mcgreg wrote: Tue Aug 05, 2025 1:54 pm I fear that you are dancing in a minefield and maybe should back off on the rhetoric.

I am puzzled to which reply exactly you are referring.

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