Random, random freezes on several distros

[lostduckling]

Hey guys.

Sorry if this is such an obvious problem, but I'm a bit lost on it.

I have this old computer, the only issue I ever had with it back in windows 7 was that it was slow (2GB ram at the time, now 6GB), I installed linux mint when I was gradually swtching to linux and it served me quite well. I do recall a few random, very scarce freezes on it, but nothing that annoyed me until it completely broke mint during an update. I always figured it was the hard drive showing its age.

I transferred an SSD from another machine with MX installed, and I got a lot of freezes, I figured it was just the kernel and drivers. Did a clean install, went okay for a while, until I got same problem, only not right after boot.

Out of curiosity I tried Zorin and Mint again, once I did get a kernel panic, cpus not syncing. A few times the installer had problem installing the grub. At least twice when systematically testing on Zorin I got a freeze similar to MX when on the install.

Memory test showed no flaws.

I switched back to Mx because it is an amazing distro for most things that I do with it, but the freezes happen at random. CPU can work for a long time on 100% and no problem, but the times that i got to check conky were at 100% or 50%, and once at 3% when opening firefox a second tab.

On some random desperation thinking it might be a CPU problem, I tried the workaround, even though my Pentium is not quite the models that have it (again, desperate), no help.

Reference in case someone reading this in the future is looking for it: https://askubuntu.com/questions/803640/ ... -bay-trail

I can post one of the dmesg, but I don't quite know what I'm looking for there.

I'd like to know what to do to proceed.

Should I try windows or non-ubuntu related distro to confirm if it isn't the hardware failing?

On a similar thread it was suggested it could have been merely graphical, and to change 'intel graphics" drivers before changing to an older kernel, but I don't quite know how to do either.

Thank you for reading

Code: Select all

System:    Host: <filter> Kernel: 4.19.0-16-686-pae i686 bits: 32 compiler: gcc v: 8.3.0 
           parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-16-686-pae 
           root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet splash 
           intel_idle.max_cstate=1 
           Desktop: Xfce 4.14.2 tk: Gtk 3.24.5 info: xfce4-panel wm: xfwm4 dm: LightDM 1.26.0 
           Distro: MX-19.4_386 patito feo March 31  2021 base: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) 
Machine:   Type: Desktop Mobo: INTELBRAS model: IE-G41T-M7 v: 1.0 serial: <filter> 
           BIOS: American Megatrends v: 080015 date: 02/24/2010 
CPU:       Topology: Dual Core model: Pentium E5700 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Penryn family: 6 
           model-id: 17 (23) stepping: A (10) microcode: A0B L2 cache: 2048 KiB 
           flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 11969 
           Speed: 1197 MHz min/max: 1203/3003 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1197 2: 1197 
           Vulnerabilities: Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: Split huge pages 
           Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion; VMX: EPT disabled 
           Type: mds status: Vulnerable: Clear CPU buffers attempted, no microcode; SMT disabled 
           Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI 
           Type: spec_store_bypass status: Vulnerable 
           Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization 
           Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Full generic retpoline, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling 
           Type: srbds status: Not affected 
           Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected 
Graphics:  Device-1: Intel 4 Series Integrated Graphics vendor: Elite Systems driver: i915 
           v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0 chip ID: 8086:2e32 
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa 
           resolution: 1600x900~60Hz 
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel G41 x86/MMX/SSE2 v: 2.1 Mesa 18.3.6 
           direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Device-1: Intel NM10/ICH7 Family High Definition Audio vendor: Elite Systems 
           driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:1b.0 chip ID: 8086:27d8 
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.19.0-16-686-pae 
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8101/2/6E PCI Express Fast/Gigabit Ethernet 
           vendor: Elite Systems RTL810xE driver: r8169 v: kernel port: e800 bus ID: 02:00.0 
           chip ID: 10ec:8136 
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 111.79 GiB used: 5.52 GiB (4.9%) 
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: SSD 120GB size: 111.79 GiB block size: physical: 512 B 
           logical: 512 B speed: <unknown> serial: <filter> rev: 0326 scheme: MBR 
Partition: ID-1: / raw size: 109.76 GiB size: 107.53 GiB (97.97%) used: 5.52 GiB (5.1%) fs: ext4 
           dev: /dev/sda1 
           ID-2: swap-1 size: 2.00 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) fs: swap swappiness: 15 (default 60) 
           cache pressure: 100 (default) dev: /dev/sda2 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 43.0 C mobo: N/A 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
Repos:     No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list 
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list 
           1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list 
           1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
           2: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list 
           1: deb http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo/ buster main non-free
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list 
Info:      Processes: 177 Uptime: 13m Memory: 5.79 GiB used: 377.3 MiB (6.4%) Init: SysVinit 
           v: 2.93 runlevel: 5 default: 5 Compilers: gcc: 8.3.0 alt: 8 Shell: quick-system-in 
           running in: quick-system-in inxi: 3.0.36 

[JayM]

Make sure that your BIOS is up to date. The only way I can think of off the top of my head to determine if it's a hardware issue or not is to reinstall Windows temporarily, use it for a while, and see if it still locks up. To test if it's a video issue try to borrow or otherwise obtain a video card and use it instead of the built-in Intel video long enough to test for lock-ups.

Another suggestion: reset your BIOS to defaults. Another: install the antiX 4.9 kernel (MX Package Installer, Popular Applications, Kernels) and boot with it (Advanced Options in grub.) If no lock-ups with the 4.9 kernel set it as your default one in MX Boot Options.

[Huckleberry Finn]

Memory test showed no flaws.

Many times in previous threads it was like that and (despite that) simply re-seating the Rams solved the issue. Just take them out, then re-seat.

And, yes, also reset Bios to defaults. (In case you'd upgraded previously: nothing to worry, the version won't go back).

At least no harm with both of these (even good) and both are simple.

[SwampRabbit]

To switch switch the Xorg driver to Intel from modesetting, open MX Tweak > Other tab. You should see the option there.

For it to take you have to logout and back in, or simply wait and reboot if your doing other things that may need. Like my next suggestion…

I’m not sure if I am remembering right, but I think folks have reported kernel 4.9 working better for that old of a CPU.

Edit: I see JayM already suggested the last part too.

[manyroads]

Random ideas:

==> You might also consider running without using a compositor (xfwm4).
==> Rather than relying on conky for memory measures... try watching your PC with htop (there is much more detail).
==> If you boot with systemd you can run systemd-analyze to see what might be getting fired up and is non-essential. https://www.commandlinux.com/man-page/m ... yze.1.html
==> Given you are using an ancient cpu, I would recommend you use as few daemons as possible. For example, start printer, bluetooth, etc only when absolutely necessary. Do not keep things idling in background.
==> Here are some numbers that should give you an idea of what to expect with your CPU: https://browser.geekbench.com/geekbench ... 845/391845

[lostduckling]

Damn, that is a lot of replies, this is just amazing.

Thank you so much for helping me.

I don't think this is a clue that helps, but right now the fastest way to crash it has been opening about 3 tabs on firefox, nothing that tanks memory or CPU to the max, it just happens.

TL;DR:

Switching graphics didn't work.

Memory removal didn't work. Considering running with one stick removed to see how it goes.

Kernel for some reason didn't download (more bellow)

Will try the bios stuff as soon as I finish with kernel.

Windows will be my control group further down the line.


I couldn't help but respond things in detail because you are dedicating time for me, and I am eager to learn, apologies if it got too long.

Well, let's start with the things I did do following your advice or previously:

Make sure that your BIOS is up to date.

It most definitely won't be. It is an 11 year old computer. I'll check it soon.

The only way I can think of off the top of my head to determine if it's a hardware issue or not is to reinstall Windows temporarily,

That will be my last resort. The distros a I am using are ubuntu-flavored. Do you think there is a possibility it is an incompatibility with old hardware? Whenever I browse problems around old machines, I notice a lot of observations on how they are getting less friendly towards them. Could it be something like that?

On that note, just a remark: last time I used MX in the pc, I everything updated, this time I'm not updating to not have a random freeze and go the Mint route and force me format once again, BOTH times they froze. Will update again before changing to windows/non-debian as a last test.

reset your BIOS to defaults

Will do as soon as I finish the kernel test suggested on the thread.

To test if it's a video issue try to borrow or otherwise obtain a video card and use it instead of the built-in Intel video long enough to test for lock-ups.

I only have my main graphics card, I'll have to hold on that for now since it would disrupt my work even more. But it is something I did consider a couple of times. I had ruled out when I did the benchmark testing, iirc. But who knows, I'll give it a shot later.

Many times in previous threads it was like that and (despite that) simply re-seating the Rams solved the issue. Just take them out, then re-seat.

That is very curious. Makes me want to read them.

Unfortunately it wasn't my case =/ Just did that.

To switch switch the Xorg driver to Intel from modesetting, open MX Tweak > Other tab. You should see the option there.

Unfortunately both on Intel and moesettings it is freezing. Switched, restarted, and then the same thing happened.

Another: install the antiX 4.9 kernel (MX Package Installer, Popular Applications, Kernels) and boot with it (Advanced Options in grub.)

Yes that is the one that I did hear a lot and I was expecting help, thanks for the instructions, I'm trying it here =)

I am getting a message that goes "Problem Detected while installing, please inspect the console output"

It seems to be a "GPG error", is it because on this installation I haven't yet updated?

Code: Select all

Hit:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease
Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
Hit:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates InRelease
Hit:4 http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo buster InRelease
Reading package lists...
Hit:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease
Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
Hit:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates InRelease
Hit:4 http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo buster InRelease
Get:5 http://la.mxrepo.com/antix/buster buster InRelease [27.4 kB]
Err:5 http://la.mxrepo.com/antix/buster buster InRelease
  The following signatures were invalid: EXPKEYSIG DB36CDF3452F0C20 antiX (antix repo) <repo@antixlinux.com>
Reading package lists...
W: GPG error: http://la.mxrepo.com/antix/buster buster InRelease: The following signatures were invalid: EXPKEYSIG DB36CDF3452F0C20 antiX (antix repo) <repo@antixlinux.com>
E: The repository 'http://la.mxrepo.com/antix/buster buster InRelease' is not signed.
Hit:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease
Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
Hit:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates InRelease
Hit:4 http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo buster InRelease
Reading package lists...
Hit:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease
Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
Hit:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates InRelease
Hit:4 http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo buster InRelease
Get:5 http://la.mxrepo.com/antix/buster buster InRelease [27.4 kB]
Err:5 http://la.mxrepo.com/antix/buster buster InRelease
  The following signatures were invalid: EXPKEYSIG DB36CDF3452F0C20 antiX (antix repo) <repo@antixlinux.com>
Reading package lists...
W: GPG error: http://la.mxrepo.com/antix/buster buster InRelease: The following signatures were invalid: EXPKEYSIG DB36CDF3452F0C20 antiX (antix repo) <repo@antixlinux.com>
E: The repository 'http://la.mxrepo.com/antix/buster buster InRelease' is not signed.
Hit:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease
Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
Hit:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates InRelease
Hit:4 http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo buster InRelease
Reading package lists...

==> You might also consider running without using a compositor (xfwm4).
==> Rather than relying on conky for memory measures... try watching your PC with htop (there is much more detail).
==> If you boot with systemd you can run systemd-analyze to see what might be getting fired up and is non-essential. https://www.commandlinux.com/man-page/m ... yze.1.html
==> Given you are using an ancient cpu, I would recommend you use as few daemons as possible. For example, start printer, bluetooth, etc only when absolutely necessary. Do not keep things idling in background.
==> Here are some numbers that should give you an idea of what to expect with your CPU: https://browser.geekbench.com/geekbench ... 845/391845

Those are good points, I'll google xfwm4 and htop though (rookie).

[Eadwine Rose]

I couldn't help but respond things in detail because you are dedicating time for me, and I am eager to learn, apologies if it got too long.

No apologies needed. We are glad you are willing to try things, and have taken the time to respond to us in such detail. Thanks!!

[texneus]

IME random crashes/freezes are most often caused by:

Too much overclock - If anything is overclocked reset it to default speeds.

Bad power supply - no easy way to troubleshoot, just replace, especially if it too is from 2010.

RAM - I know you said you checked it but but how long and how? Download and run the latest Memtest86+ from a USB stick, the one included with MXLinux is old. I would let it run for at least 8 hours or more. Flakey RAM can take a long time to reveal. ALSO - 6GB is an odd configuration, usually you want identical memory sticks. Some systems are sensitive to this. If it used to be stable on 2GB RAM then remove the extra and try that.

A Bad SSD or SATA cable - especially if there are substantial system slowdowns and freezes that recover after a few seconds to minutes. Check the SMART data with GSmartControl. Post here if you want some help interpreting it.

Just an observation, but your CPU is pretty warm for what appears to be an idle system. When was the last time the system was opened and all the dust blown out, especially from fans and heatsinks?

[j2mcgreg]

lostduckling wrote:

I don't think this is a clue that helps, but right now the fastest way to crash it has been opening about 3 tabs on firefox, nothing that tanks memory or CPU to the max, it just happens.

Firefox's implementation of hardware acceleration does not work very well especially on old hardware and can easily cause the sort of crashes that you have been experiencing. Here's a tutorial on how to turn it off:

https://linuxconfig.org/firefox-hardwar ... n-on-linux

It's unlikely that you will experience a performance hit with it disabled.

[JayM]

You shouldn't have antiX repos, unless you originally installed an older dot or point release of MX-19 (19, 19.1, 19.2) and didn't receive the update that removed them. Anyway, run MX Tools -> MX Fix GPG Keys, then install the kernel.

Re: up-to-date BIOS, you'll have to search the web for BIOS updates for your motherboard that are newer than BIOS version. There should be instructions on the site for flashing your BIOS. You'll need a USB stick formatted as FAT32 (MX Tools -> Format USB.)