MX Linux Forum

In MX-21 Beta 1 and 2 I installed Discover (called "plasma-discover") a KDE program that can be used to install and upgrade programs. However, it sounds like some people prefer Synaptic + apt-notifier (the way we do things in Xfce) combination.

I installed Discover in the Betas because it's only one program and it's closely integrated with Plasma being a KDE program, while Synaptic is a GTK program. It also has some a nice way to inspect which program gets upgraded and to select/deselect the updates.

I personally don't use either Synaptic or Discover, I mostly use apt in CLI, so I cannot really have an informed opinion about that, in my view I much rather prefer to offer a consistent KDE experience than a patchwork of Qt and GTK programs, but if users prefer Synaptic that's what I'm going to install. (I installed Muon in the last release, but it seemed from reports that it's not people's favorite).

In any case, I would like to decide between installing Discover by default, or installing Synaptic + apt-notifier. This is relevant only for default settings, user are still free to change the program selection on their computers, so think about this as: "what would you think a newbie should see on their computer?" rather than "what would you like to use?" type of question...

Thanks!
Adrian

I think both need to be installed. From a newbie standpoint, if they install widgets from the KDE Store and those widgets are upgraded, apt-notifier + Synaptic will not show the upgrade. I have seen this happen on Beta2.

Can that option be added to the poll? That is both.

If we add both Discover and apt-notifier, they will both check for updates and both with pop up "x updates available", that's not acceptable. I could have Discover + Synaptic but not together with apt-notifier and Discover + Synaptic kind of defeats the purpose...

OK. A user can add the one not defaulted too as you indicated.

Adrian wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:45 pm in my view I much rather prefer to offer a consistent KDE experience than a patchwork of Qt and GTK programs

This.
KDE is its own environment and more; also a collection of software and a Qt storefront. It should be kept as pure as possible.
I vote Discover.

Adrian wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:45 pmIn any case, I would like to decide between installing Discover by default, or installing Synaptic + apt-notifier. This is relevant only for default settings, user are still free to change the program selection on their computers, so think about this as: "what would you think a newbie should see on their computer?" rather than "what would you like to use?" type of question...

Since you put it that way...

I'll go along with your inclination to give the user the full KDE experience. So I voted for Discover, even though I've expressed a personal preference for synaptic and apt-notifier. If it wasn't so easy for us old codgers to revert back to the old setup I'd maybe think differently.

Adrian, I think you should edit the poll to say don't vote until you read the explanation. In my case, I would vote one way after just seeing the poll question and the other way after reading your post. Many people will just vote the poll and move on without reading.

Adrian wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:45 pm so think about this as: "what would you think a newbie should see on their computer?"

A newbie would be more comfortable with the graphical richness of Discover as opposed to the dryness of Synaptic.
Also, as you said, it's only one program.

I have used Discover on another computer which has KDE (it's actually running Fedora) and really didn't like it - it seems too commercial, rather like the Apple or Android app stores. I personally greatly favour the Synaptic and apt-notifier approach, and have only just been gettting used to the MX-PI for package installation or updates.

Voted discover. KDE synergy,newbie friendliness and mostly I like where they are trying to go with it.

Of course the first thing I dl'ed from it was synaptic...

heywoodidaho wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:56 pm Voted discover. KDE synergy,newbie friendliness and mostly I like where they are trying to go with it.

Of course the first thing I dl'ed from it was synaptic...

LOL. Ain't that the truth.

Me, I had to grab gparted too.

I voted for the user-friendliness of apt-notifier and MXPI. Synaptic as backup. Whatever is decided, I'll be using them.

I agree that let both available, but As you have mentioned newbie friendly, I think discover is better approach with its graphical representation and tools and setting.

When we are providing a KDE look, it's better to be in KDE world.
KDE application flows better in KDE like dolphin or gwenview.

KDE application like discover feels visually better in KDE environment with visual assistance is more new user comfortable but for advanced users neither one,

Adrian wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:20 pm If we add both Discover and apt-notifier, they will both check for updates and both with pop up "x updates available", that's not acceptable. I could have Discover + Synaptic but not together with apt-notifier and Discover + Synaptic kind of defeats the purpose...

The discover notification in system tray can be disabled. Just right click on panel just below the small triangle on the right to configure system tray. Choose NEVER for "Updates" application, which is Discover.

After that, no more systray update icon from Discover will show up, though you probably can't stop discover actually checking for updates.

My choice is Both, but make synaptic and mx-updater default.

Or at least, install both Discover and Synaptic. Doesn't seem right to do without the granddaddy of full-fledged package managers for apt-based systems.

Note : at least in mx19, icon and theme sets that are installed through our repos, eg papirus, matcha, will show up in discover as updates if there are new versions in kde store, but I believe they were not installed as root for all users. I think you might only get the updated customisation stuff installed on home for the user. Also in mx19, when I searched for papirus, discover refused to show me the package in repos, but only showed the kde store one. So I'm still leery of discover's search function.

I want to keep my updates of my flatpaks and plasma customization elements manual, instead of under the wholesale update of the system updater. I'm still concerned that some updates of say, plasmoids or sddm login themes will break compatibility on the mx plasma version, because some devs are actively developing and updating for the latest plasma version, while mx21 remains at 5.20.

Seems kind of a shame to make the first MX-KDE release missing its complete complement of apps. Just sayin'.
Looking forward to trying MX with KDE-5, however configured.

count me as another person that voted on personal preference before reading Adrian's explanation and regretting the vote...


i don't personally use discover and have hidden it from system tray .... MX didn't feel complete somehow without installing apt-notifier for updates .... on the other hand, discover does offer an appealing graphical search for newbies and many KDE users from other distros would expect it to be installed ....

despite my vote, i am agnostic and will install both synaptic and apt-notifier regardless

edit ... sorry about this, but would like my hasty vote changed for discover if possible ... (especially if the vote is close)

Richard wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:04 pm Seems kind of a shame to make the first MX-KDE release missing its complete complement of apps. Just sayin'.
Looking forward to trying MX with KDE-5, however configured.

Not the first. Did you completely miss mx19 KDE?

The poll should have an option to change the vote.

Bamber wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:59 am The poll should have an option to change the vote.

The forum software does not have that option. Users should read the initial post and consider their choice before voting.

richb wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:32 am The forum software does not have that option

I see.

richb wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:32 am Users should read the initial post and consider their choice before voting.

I usually do, but many don't (just look at the poll and vote) and later regret the vote.

I voted for Discover. However Synaptic should be installed as default as well. I always install Synaptic as a backup. Apt notifier is a more pleasing indicator of updates but that is all IMO.

I will consider mind changes, I see @Bamber and @Antedeluvian (although he didn't mention the direction of the change)

Also, I should have made it clear from the start, this is not a binding vote, especially if it ends with a couple of votes difference, I just want to see what people think and be able to make a more informed decision.

As is stands now it's 13/14 or even 14/13 (if Antedeluvian changed his mind towards Discover)

I voted for Discover. However Synaptic should be installed as default as well.

It's a reasonable suggestion, however some people complained about "bloat" and while I don't usually pay attention to that, it's a bit much and even confusing to have Discover, Synaptic, MX Packageinstaller, not to mention apt, apt-get, aptitude to manage packages. It's fine to add whatever you prefer, but since the ISO is already around 2.6GB I need to draw the line at some point so it should be either Discover or Synaptic in my opinion.

Adrian wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:44 am It's a reasonable suggestion, however some people complained about "bloat" and while I don't usually pay attention to that, it's a bit much and even confusing to have Discover, Synaptic, MX Packageinstaller, not to mention apt, apt-get, aptitude to manage packages. It's fine to add whatever you prefer, but since the ISO is already around 2.6GB I need to draw the line at some point so it should be either Discover or Synaptic in my opinion.

I forgot about MX Packageinstaller (how could I forget MX Package installer!?). I guess I would be OK without Synaptic. If needed I can always install it later.

Adrian wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:36 am I will consider mind changes, I see @Bamber and @Antedeluvian (although he didn't mention the direction of the change)

Also, I should have made it clear from the start, this is not a binding vote, especially if it ends with a couple of votes difference, I just want to see what people think and be able to make a more informed decision.

As is stands now it's 13/14 or even 14/13 (if Antedeluvian changed his mind towards Discover)

thanks

FYI: i also mind-changed in post 16 ...quite sure about it now .....no flip plopping since then

I voted for Discover simply because it is more new user friendly in some respects compared to Synaptic and MXPI still exists.
Experienced users can always install whatever they want / feel more comfortable with.

I would be cool if the Discover notifications in system tray could be turned off (as asqwerth stated) so apt-notifier could be used, but maybe that's just complicating things.

asqwerth wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:42 pm

Richard wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:04 pm Seems kind of a shame to make the first MX-KDE release missing its complete complement of apps. Just sayin'.
Looking forward to trying MX with KDE-5, however configured.

Not the first. Did you completely miss mx19 KDE?

Yes and no. I just preferred Xfce so I basically ignored everything about KDE.

KDE was offered with the AHS in Aug, 2020 but I had no need of that.
I didn't perceive AHS as a mainstream release, but that's my error.

At this time, an MX KDE release seems, to me, to be worth a trial.
There's always apt-get if I want to try anything missing.

Since this is about what's included by default I voted for Discover (I don't use it much but it is the KDE default and getting better), with MXPI only. Adding apt-notifier and synaptic would mean four programs in total, rather bloated and confusing for newbies. Of course people can always install what they prefer / are used to later on. IOW: the beta has this right already ;-)

I know it's probably too late to implement, but user could get an option to select a default package manager to be installed?

markol wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:18 pm I know it's probably too late to implement, but user could get an option to select a default package manager to be installed?

There' a choice to do that after you install you can remove and install whatever programs you want...

Adrian wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:34 pm There' a choice to do that after you install you can remove and install whatever programs you want...

I know :)

Please feel free to just delete any post that is not in English.

Will do just that, in fact. Thanks. Will leave the remark.

Adrian wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:45 pm ..., so think about this as: "what would you think a newbie should see on their computer?" rather than "what would you like to use?" type of question...

Because of that, I think Discover is better, since it is more like the well known app stores of big companies and is also more intuitive, IMO. Also a big advantage of it is that there are screenshots and reviews of the apps. And I also prefer having most apps use the same graphics toolkit.

For more advanced users, Synaptic might be better, as you can do much more advanced things regarding system and app management with it. Butt I guess, users who want these options can just install it.

I think it's appropriate for the default on MX-21 Plasma/KDE to be Discover. Users who are familiar with and want Synaptic will know how to add after install.

tek10 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:33 pm I think it's appropriate for the default on MX-21 Plasma/KDE to be Discover. Users who are familiar with and want Synaptic will know how to add after install.

That's what I'm thinking too, I also see the poll is 19/18 in favor of Discover (considering the 3 people who changed their mind)...

I liked the look of Discover, but found its functionality significantly behind Synaptic's. Sorry, can't recall the details now, but it struck me clearly at the time, and I've never looked back. I'm on MX KDE now, and I use Synaptic. I probably use MXPI even more, but when it comes to repos, screenshots, locking or freezing versions, etc, Synaptic is what I use. I don't think the purity of the KDE ecosystem experience matters compared to functionality.

I use both Apt-notifier and Discover.
I use Apt-notifier for the normal updates and Discover for updating the Themes and icons from kde.org that I have downloaded.

MAYBL8 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:43 pm I use both Apt-notifier and Discover.
I use Apt-notifier for the normal updates and Discover for updating the Themes and icons from kde.org that I have downloaded.

+1

Thank you all for the feedback, I see the poll is now 20/22 (counting the 3 people who changed their opinion after they submitted their vote)
I will go with Discover even if it got a bit less love, as I mentioned all the other options to install stuff including MX PackageInstaller (pre-installed) and Synaptic (from the repo) are still available.

I will mark this solved.

The sucker can suck some RAM (discover) 1.6gb, makes Firefox look like a well toilet trained RAM user.

I played around for a couple of hours with discover then suspended for a couple of hours then woke the lappy up and carried on for a few more hours.
First time I have broken 4gb RAM used ever on this install (mxlinux KDE), even trying with FF having 50 plus tabs open for weeks on end (plus 50 extensions).

Interesting application, like the GUI thing side of it.
Bit like 'penguin' shopping down-town on a late Friday night and all the shop doors are still unlocked.

If you know what you want it's not needed, if you are like me and been in the bad-lands for a while, very informative.

Have added it to apt, muon, mxpi & synaptic.
Synaptic is still my go to for the details.
MXPI is the tool I use for the updates and a quick check of what applications you great Dev's have built for MXlinux-KDE

Would have put a plus vote for discover, for newbies.
Looking forward to the new version of MXlinux KDE guys & girls

Cheers NH