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MX19.x What kernel should I be on?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:04 pm
by entropyagent
Hi MXers
In my MX 19 install, what kernel should I be on?
I cherish the fond hope that my distro will keep my kernel up to date with the latest security fixes, but I am not sure this is happening with my semi-regular "aptitude update;aptitude full-upgrade" regimen. Is it possible that, despite this rigorous maintenance program, my machine has been stuck on the same kernel since 2019?
I recently encountered a suggestion that auto-updating kernels were added in mx19. which is quite interesting. Perhaps this was after I did my install. Or perhaps my sources have taken a wrong turning?
dolphin_oracle wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:44 am
teddyk67 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:10 pm
dolphin_oracle wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:06 pm
update to sent the repo, probably hit tomorrow.
thanks for the reports!
That could explain why the kernel wasn't auto-updating on the machine.
actually no. on mx18 the kernels do not auto-update. we added that in mx19, and even then only for the current debian stable kernel.
you can get kernel 4.9 to autoupdate on mx18 by installing the linux-image-* package that matches your architecture (i386 or amd64 for 32bit/64bit respectively).
Code: Select all
$ date
Tue 08 Jun 2021 08:15:04 PM SAST
$ sudo aptitude update
Hit http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease
Hit http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
Hit http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates InRelease
Hit http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo buster InRelease
:/var/cache/apt/archives
$ sudo aptitude search 'linux-image ?installed'
i linux-image-4.19.0-6-amd64-unsigned - Linux 4.19 for 64-bit PCs
:/var/cache/apt/archives
$ uname -a
Linux 4.19.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.67-2+deb10u2 (2019-11-11) x86_64 GNU/Linux
:/var/cache/apt/archives
$
Am I interpreting the words of the oracle correctly when I conclude that if I install "current debian stable kernel", I will find myself on the kernel upgrade train? Is that the one referred to in MXPI as
Code: Select all
Debian 64 bit (4.19)
Default Debian kernel Meltdown patched, 64bit
Packages to be installed: linux-image-amd64 linux-headers-amd64
Is this available via aptitude, as "linux-image-amd64"?
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$ sudo aptitude show linux-image-amd64
Package: linux-image-amd64
Version: 4.19+105+deb10u11
State: not installed
Priority: optional
Section: kernel
Maintainer: Debian Kernel Team <debian-kernel@lists.debian.org>
Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 18.4 k
Depends: linux-image-4.19.0-16-amd64
Provides: linux-latest-modules-4.19.0-16-amd64
Description: Linux for 64-bit PCs (meta-package)
This package depends on the latest Linux kernel and modules for use on PCs with AMD64, Intel 64 or
VIA Nano processors.
:/var/cache/apt/archives
I hope someone can guide me to getting back on the security update train. Or perhaps just do me a kindness in shattering the illusion that there is such a mechanism?
Re: MX19.x What kernel should I be on?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:02 pm
by dolphin_oracle
just add the linux-image-amd64 package and you'll get your updates. you can also do this in MX-Packageinstaller-popular apps-kernels- Debian 64bit.
the original MX19 release might not have had this. I think we added it by default in 19.1 or 19.2
Re: MX19.x What kernel should I be on?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:50 pm
by entropyfoe
It depends on what hardware you have.
If you have newer hardware (1-3 years old) I would use the 5.10 in the MXPI. That's what I use.
It says latest version from stable, so I think it would get updated.
The 5.10 is used in the MX 19.4 ahs and it is a nice LTS kernel, so it will be supported a long time.
Re: MX19.x What kernel should I be on?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:05 pm
by entropyagent
dolphin_oracle wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:02 pm
just add the linux-image-amd64 package and you'll get your updates. you can also do this in MX-Packageinstaller-popular apps-kernels- Debian 64bit.
the original MX19 release might not have had this. I think we added it by default in 19.1 or 19.2
Thanks for the snappy feedback. I have a possible way forward now.
I see this is included in the 19.2 announcement
https://mxlinux.org/blog/mx-19-2-now-available/:
"The standard MX-19.2 releases (32 bit and 64 bit) feature the latest debian 4.19 kernel and unlike in the past the kernel will now auto-update along with debian sources by default."
Am I correct in assuming that every MX user who installed a version before 19.2, and relied on the apt system to update it, has been left on their original/install kernel, possibly for years?
Re: MX19.x What kernel should I be on?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:49 pm
by entropyfoe
Kernel 4.19 is also a LTS kernel.
It is a top choice of older hardware.
These LTS kernels get literally >100 upgrades over their life time.
4.19.146 was released last year, no telling what number they are upto now.
Re: MX19.x What kernel should I be on?
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:42 pm
by dolphin_oracle
entropyagent wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:05 pm
dolphin_oracle wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:02 pm
just add the linux-image-amd64 package and you'll get your updates. you can also do this in MX-Packageinstaller-popular apps-kernels- Debian 64bit.
the original MX19 release might not have had this. I think we added it by default in 19.1 or 19.2
Thanks for the snappy feedback. I have a possible way forward now.
I see this is included in the 19.2 announcement
https://mxlinux.org/blog/mx-19-2-now-available/:
"The standard MX-19.2 releases (32 bit and 64 bit) feature the latest debian 4.19 kernel and unlike in the past the kernel will now auto-update along with debian sources by default."
Am I correct in assuming that every MX user who installed a version before 19.2, and relied on the apt system to update it, has been left on their original/install kernel, possibly for years?
Possibly. But we announced the kernel updates prior and provided the methodology in mx packageinstaller
Re: MX19.x What kernel should I be on?
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:45 pm
by TTwrs
"just add the linux-image-amd64 package and you'll get your updates."
Does this hold true when running 19.3 as a Live distro (flashdrive)?
Re: MX19.x What kernel should I be on?
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:49 pm
by dolphin_oracle
yes, although in some instances you will need to run live-kernel-updater to make the change to the live system.
Re: MX19.x What kernel should I be on?
Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:17 pm
by MCreaves
I've been using the Liquorix kernel on my hardware without issues despite my hardware being kind of old. I chose it due to it being updated regularly mostly and plus I was curious.
https://liquorix.net/
Re: MX19.x What kernel should I be on?
Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:20 pm
by figueroa
My 25 years says to stick with the mainstream LTS kernel that is compatible with your hardware. 4.19 gets regular backported security and feature fixes (but not enhancements) from upstream, and has 2 1/2 years left of supported life. Upgrading to newer with no compelling reason is often the path of much grief.
Re: MX19.x What kernel should I be on?
Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:09 am
by MCreaves
figueroa wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:20 pm
My 25 years says to stick with the mainstream LTS kernel that is compatible with your hardware. 4.19 gets regular backported security and feature fixes (but not enhancements) from upstream, and has 2 1/2 years left of supported life. Upgrading to newer with no compelling reason is often the path of much grief.
Generally, yes, this is good advice. However, sometimes you do need a newer kernel. A couple of my computers will not operate fully with the LTS kernel. The Liquorix kernel works on all of the computers I have tested it on so far. The advice should probably be:
"Try the current LTS kernel first. If everything works, stick to it. Otherwise, try a newer kernel."
Re: MX19.x What kernel should I be on?
Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:40 pm
by figueroa
MCreaves wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:09 am
figueroa wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:20 pm
My 25 years says to stick with the mainstream LTS kernel that is compatible with your hardware. 4.19 gets regular backported security and feature fixes (but not enhancements) from upstream, and has 2 1/2 years left of supported life. Upgrading to newer with no compelling reason is often the path of much grief.
Generally, yes, this is good advice. However, sometimes you do need a newer kernel. A couple of my computers will not operate fully with the LTS kernel. The Liquorix kernel works on all of the computers I have tested it on so far. The advice should probably be:
"Try the current LTS kernel first. If everything works, stick to it. Otherwise, try a newer kernel."
I don't think it's that helpful to just reword what I wrote. Tell us something. What exactly is "A couple of my computers will not operate fully with the LTS kernel." What computers are they, and what part(s) didn't operate fully? Your examples may be helpful to others. Name the hardware.
All of my computers, newest about 10 years old, ran fine (all hardware supported) with bog standard 4.4 series distribution kernel. Some are still running 4.9 series kernels, some 4.19, my main desktop on 5.4. Liquorix kernel has its particular uses. Liquorix doesn't necessarily support hardware better. User's with special needs can also learn how to compile their own kernel in order to tune it to match their particular hardware. The reason for mainstream distribution kernels (especially LTS versions) is because they meet most people's needs with a generally good balance of power, throughput, heat generation, memory use and so on, and they don't change so often as to be a maintenance headache. Mainstream distribution kernels get a lot of eyes looking at them between upstream kernel.org and the many thousands or millions of end users. You pay your money (or not) and take your chances.