[solved] @#$%^*&! SystemD .. the snake strikes again

[zimbodel]

My question is at the bottom.


# Background and History

Unbelievable!
I try my best to make sure systemD is NOT installed on my system as it royally mucks up absolutely everything eventually.
I check all dependencies to be installed and wrote a cron script to notify me if systemD snake ever wormed its way onto my servers.

SystemD was NOT installed on my system, as I make sure the snake doesnt muck up a perfect system....which it always does/

Well, today I did a simple

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apt update
apt upgrade

Lo and behold systemD was installed again during the upgrade, although, it was NEVER installed before the aptery I mention above.
My cron script sounded the alarm halfway during the upgrade and there it was systemd installed again even though there was no systemD installed before.

This time systemD really mucked up everything.
Trying to uninstall systemD
it uninstalled the following

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pulseaudio pulseaudio-module-bluetooth pulseaudio-module-jack
  python3-pyqt5.qtwebengine qml-module-org-kde-kio
  qml-module-org-kde-kquickcontrols qml-module-org-kde-kquickcontrolsaddons
  simplescreenrecorder squeezelite unpaper vlc vlc-plugin-base
  vlc-plugin-vlsub vlc-plugin-zvbi x264

Go figure .... and also uninstalled a loooot of kernel modules I carefull insmodded for my server top work.
The systemD crap just broke things it was not even supposed to be controlling.

So systemD installed itself and absolute wrecked my server.

After systemD was removed and then I tried

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apt update
apt upgrade

again,
Lo and behold the snake systemD installs itself again.

This time when I tried to do an
apt remove systemd I get.

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# apt remove systemd
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       # apt remove systemd
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  systemd
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 15 not upgraded.
After this operation, 9,516 kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
(Reading database ... 636371 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing systemd (232-25+deb9u12) ...
systemd is the active init system, please switch to another before removing systemd.
dpkg: error processing package systemd (--remove):
 subprocess installed pre-removal script returned error exit status 1
addgroup: The group `systemd-journal' already exists as a system group. Exiting.
Errors were encountered while processing:
 systemd
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  systemd
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 15 not upgraded.
After this operation, 9,516 kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
(Reading database ... 636371 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing systemd (232-25+deb9u12) ...
systemd is the active init system, please switch to another before removing systemd.
dpkg: error processing package systemd (--remove):
 subprocess installed pre-removal script returned error exit status 1
addgroup: The group `systemd-journal' already exists as a system group. Exiting.
Errors were encountered while processing:
 systemd
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)

So, SystemD now refuses to uninstall itself as I have to first install another init.
SysVinit is ALREADY installed.


Question1)
How do I resolve this.

SystemD is the ultimate PITA.
I tried to blacklist it in dpkg but it does not work. as you can see attempts to do so never really works.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/75895/h ... -installed

Question2) Anyone has a way to ultimately block a package .... such as systemDuh

[dolphin_oracle]

You resolve by using antix. Mx repos are not systemd free. The debian pulseaudio package depends on systemd i think. Antix packages one that doesnt.

[AK-47]

Is the system forcing you to boot into SystemD, and if so, what problems are you experiencing?

You'll probably do more harm than good trying to "block systemd" than simply not booting into it in the first place. Since MX uses SysV Init by default, you are unlikely to experience a systemd problem unless you choose to boot into it. Although systemd is installed, it doesn't get run unless you make a choice to run it.

And if you're worried about systemd getting on your perfect, pristine, holy and pure system, pay attention to the Linux kernel which supports lots of file systems you'll probably never use, and is now bloated to the core. But we all still live with it.

[asqwerth]

Here we go again. Seems to be another rehash of your thread here...

https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php ... el#p522180

We've tried to explain MX's position on systemd many times.

[JayM]

For the umpteenth time, zimbodel:
https://mxlinux.org/about-us/

Our Positions
Systemd

Because the use of systemd as a system and service manager has been controversial, we want to be clear about its function in MX Linux. Systemd is included by default but not enabled. You can scan your MX system and discover files bearing systemd* names, but those simply provide a compatibility hook/entrypoint when needed.

MX Linux uses systemd-shim, which emulates the systemd functions that are required to run the helpers without actually using the init service. This means that SvsVinit remains the default init yet MX Linux can use Debian packages that have systemd dependencies such as CUPS. This approach also allows the user to retain the ability to choose his/her preferred init. For details, see the MX/antiX Wiki.

https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/systemd/

If you want a Linux distro that's completely, entirely, utterly systemd-free MX isn't it. Feel free to use another distro such as antiX or Devuan instead.

SystemD merely being present in MX but not being used isn't going to break anything, but attempting to rip necessary components out of MX by their roots surely will, as you've found. As far as how to fix your system goes, reinstall MX and leave it alone. Or as I said, change to a different distro that's completely systemd-free.

[Stevo]

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aptitude why systemd

generally will tell you what's going on with the upgrade pulling it in, too.

[zimbodel]

Mx works perfectly without systemd, so did pulseaudio and myriads of applications.
SystemD was not at all needed.
It comes up again, because the SystemD snake struck again ..... dont understand your issue about other posts.
Two trainwrecks doesnt make one trainwreck.

So...

MX was the best OS I ever had to work with without systemd, I guess some of you are hell bent to stab me with my own problem but missed my many compliments..........
It actually works fantastic when systemD is not installed and I used it now for abou 6 months without systemd....flawless.
The curiously unwarranted SystemD however now borked it good!

Fair you made it clear now that MXLinux is a systemD Debian Roll, so I will move to Devuan.
I already have two servers running Devuan and it works great.

Thank you for the heads up that I should have used Antix to be systemD free.
I think the problem arose that Antix/MX are so intertwined that it is hard to see the difference.
If I knew that I would have used antix.

I thank all for the kind !@#$%$%^^ you so I will leave and move to Devuan and if that doesnt work to Antix.
I just had it with systemD messing up perfectly working systems.
I just had it.
I came to MX on recommendation from a package developer involved at MX who invited me over due to my SystemD problems I posted elsewhere. He must have meant Antix and not MX.
He meant well,. but I can see his company doesnt serve him well.

It will be a month to rebuild all my MX servers to run all applications on Devuan but it is worth everything possible to be free of the SystemD rubbish.
I cannot maintain the servers for two businesses with MX systemD crap interjecting itself all the time. Devuan so far gives me zero trouble.

I thank those responses above who tried to help with the problem without agenda.
Thank you very much

Bye.

[zimbodel]

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aptitude why systemd

generally will tell you what's going on with the upgrade pulling it in, too.

Thanks for the honest attempt to help.

As you can see very little is dependent.
For some reason rtkit installed in the upgrade, it wasnt installed beforehand either.
I know that it wasnt there as I keep textfiles of cron dumps of what is installed on my computer every hour to detect anything new appearing out of the blue or to see what really happened during an app install.

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$ aptitude why systemd
i   rtkit          Depends policykit-1               
i A policykit-1    Depends libpam-systemd            
iBA libpam-systemd Depends systemd (= 232-25+deb9u12)

What will help is if I can switch to another init system. That way I can get rid of systemD
As I mention SysVinit is already installed and ran before the apt upgrade, but somehow systemD cannot figure out to activate a different init when uninstalled.

Do you know ho to resolve this ?
I already did

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cp /usr/share/sysvinit/inittab /etc/inittab

but systemD still doesnt recognise the SysVinit is now to be the new init system and therefore borks its own uninstallation.

I solved it: It finally uninstalled.
It refused to uninstall with

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apt uninstall systemd

but it was removed good with

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apt remove  --purge --auto-remove systemd

There should not be a difference, where the former throws an error and the latter just does it, but hey its systemd.
It has its fingers everywhere. Jack of all trades Master of Nothing.

Seems like purging some config files makes systemd forget about another init, so why even bother with the bogus error, which is most likely bogus to keep you in SystemD.
Thanks for your help, I should be able to bring this server up to how it was again and then move them all over to Devuan during next 30 days.

[Eadwine Rose]

As long as you don't boot in systemd when you are in grub (you can select it in advanced) you are not using systemd.
It is there, yes, for those who DO need it.


It's like a browser and google.

You can open a browser and use google. Or not. If you don't want to use google simply don't go there. It will still BE there even if you don't go there, but it won't influence the browser.


If you absolutely want nothing to do with systemd, then you either remove all of it (although I don't know if it is possible to remove the whole thing *shrug*) or use a distro that is completely systemd free, like antiX.

[JayM]

Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired

-Jonathan Swift, from A Letter to a Young Gentleman, Lately Enter’d Into Holy Orders by a Person of Quality (1721)