MX Linux Forum

A short time ago a Facebook group for MX Linux users was set up. There was some doubt as to whether it would get enough support to warrant it, but I'm pleased to say that today we welcomed out 2,000th member.

The group is very active, with multiple posts daily, and has members from all over the world.

Chris

Thanks, Chris.

It has surprised me, I must say. I thought it would be just a glorified chat room, but a lot of support is provided to a lot of people. Think: if it did not exist, all those people would either be here--can you imagine?!--or be left flapping in the breeze.

Nice indeed!

The group is very active, with multiple posts daily, and has members from all over the world.

I often get on early in the morning EDT,and a question or comment that had been posted less than an hour ago will already have 1-15 comments.

For those worrying about the lack of someone to give "the" correct answer, think "bazaar" and not "cathedral." I truly believe that ESR, who was talking about development and not consumption, would be very much in favor of it.

I was unsure how it would develop. It seems that folk who would not be confident to post here are the main users, with a small but growing number of more experienced users gradually helping out with support.
I spend a fair bit of time there as I am active in a number of unrelated Facebook groups. I have one virtual desktop with Facebook open on it all the time.
My teenage granddaughter finds it somewhat amusing!

Chris

That's nice, that being said I left Facebook 6 years ago and didn't look back, they are the scummiest of the scummiest companies. But whatever floats people's boats...

I don't like Facebook, but I like this group.

That's fantastic!

Must admit I cringe when I see the words "MX Linux Facebook group". But I'm glad someone is willing to get into the slime to help those interested in MX.

KBD wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:15 pm Must admit I cringe when I see the words "MX Linux Facebook group". But I'm glad someone is willing to get into the slime to help those interested in MX.

Actually no slime there. It is not your normal Facebook. Over 200 members and very active and helpful.

not 200, 2,000

richb wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:20 pm

KBD wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:15 pm Must admit I cringe when I see the words "MX Linux Facebook group". But I'm glad someone is willing to get into the slime to help those interested in MX.

Actually no slime there. It is not your normal Facebook. Over 200 members and very active and helpful.

Facebook has received so much negative press that I won't go into it. They have correctly earned their horrible reputation regarding privacy issues.
Nevertheless, I do appreciate those who work to help MX users no matter the venue.

Jerry3904 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:25 pm not 200, 2,000

Yep, sticky key.

Luke Skywalker my Jedi, beat down the evil empire Facebook, let it be with you.

KBD wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:15 pm Must admit I cringe when I see the words "MX Linux Facebook group". But I'm glad someone is willing to get into the slime to help those interested in MX.

After over 25 years on Usenet, Facebook is a calm, peaceful haven! The local area FB group where I live has over 26,000 members - 25% of the population, or around 50% of the adult population. It's really useful for getting and giving information on rapidly changing situations. It's well-moderated. which is key to a successful group. Of course, you need to choose which posts to read, and ignore any which might irritate.

The privacy issues don't bother me; I only give what I'm happy to. ;-)

Chris

I always find it hilarious when people complain about 'privacy' on Facebook.
As if they are posting on their refrigerator in their kitchen when they are actually posting on a fence in Central Park.
What part of 'social' don't you understand?

John Gay wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:40 am I always find it hilarious when people complain about 'privacy' on Facebook.
As if they are posting on their refrigerator in their kitchen when they are actually posting on a fence in Central Park.
What part of 'social' don't you understand?

Indeed, and the privacy options in Facebook now are comprehensive and fine-grained should you choose to use them.

Chris

I feel that a FaceBook group allows quicker potential replies, as well as targeting groups that might not like the forum format.
It was thanks to the FaceBook post that I knew not to upgrade my Laptop due to the kernel issue.
But I also understand those who don't FaceBook.
But having a FaceBook group as well only expands the reach of support and that is a good thing.

well i don't use social media , i only use facebook for discount , or registering a site membership that have partnership with the respective social media , even then it's a faux identity with a open-source faux e-mail generator , and im not doing it on the daily driver machine ...

i personally want something like gitter or discord but i don't know if i can get approvals from the devs ...

Has nothing to do with the devs... Gitter is open-source and there are deb files for installation
https://gitter.im/apps
Discord is proprietary but also has a deb for 64 bit
https://discordapp.com/download

chrispop99 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:44 pm A short time ago a Facebook group for MX Linux users was set up. There was some doubt as to whether it would get enough support to warrant it, but I'm pleased to say that today we welcomed out 2,000th member.

The group is very active, with multiple posts daily, and has members from all over the world.

Chris

How do I find this Facebook group? Do I need to sign up for Facebook? If I sign up for Facebook am I now in the public social media soup that will get spammed by other social media users or constantly dinged on my phone every time someone posts to the group?

What makes Facebook better than a forum? Why do some people not like the forum but prefer facebook?

Seaken64

You need to be a Facebook member.
You need to search Facebook to find the group.
You need to make a group member request before you can post.
The amount of spam you get, and what notifications your phone gives you, are entirely under your control.

The answers to your last questions are subjective, but my take is that neither one is better or worse than the other. They are different things for different purposes, with some overlap.

Chris

Mom always told me to try something first before deciding if I would like it.
Not to take other peoples word.
Been working good so far.

I am facebook member before MX came on line in groups because of family and friend ties there.
Also belong to the antiX facebook group.
Totally back up what chrispop posted also.

public social media soup

You can lock it down completely, no Facebook spam and no friends. Only your name visible.
Takes some tweaking to turn of every possible way to contact you.
Henry

To find it: just click on the icon on the top of the MX home page

Ok, thanks. I will check it out. But I still don't understand why a Facebook group is needed since we already have this nice forum.

Seaken64

Not needed, wanted. Many people apparently don't like or even fear the Forum.

It's kind of interesting, actually. The Facebook site is a real bazaar, where the Forum is more of a cathedral.

seaken64 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:39 am What makes Facebook better than a forum? Why do some people not like the forum but prefer facebook?

You'll have to ask them, and since they're in Facebook, not here, you'll have to ask your questions there. Prepare to be assimilated!

seaken64 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:32 pm Ok, thanks. I will check it out. But I still don't understand why a Facebook group is needed since we already have this nice forum.

Seaken64

There are probably multiple reasons why some users would rather use Facebook than a forum.

We are all different; some are confident, and will ask questions regardless of whether the question might be felt to be inappropriate or not, others won't. If you have very limited computer knowledge, and look at the issues dealt with here, you might feel intimidated, especially if you have seen how novice users are treated in some other technology forums.

Many of the users in our Facebook group don't have English as their first (or even second!) language. The 'Translate' feature of Facebook gives speakers of other languages a fair chance of helping out. In fact sometimes when a user as struggling to explain in fractured English, they are asked to post in their own language as 'Translate' makes a better job.

Although everyone here responds as well as could ever be expected, Facebook has more immediacy. The ration of problem solvers here to the number of members is lower than on Facebook, where most users seem prepared to at least try to help.

Facebook is very easy to use when compared to the Forum. Adding photos, video, and URLs is a much simpler process. It is also simpler to carry out administration.

There were some fears that Facebook would just become a duplicate of the forum, but in my opinion that hasn't happened. It won't be for everyone as there are a fair amount of posts that you just need to scroll by. Overall, I feel that it has helped some users that might have given up with MX Linux, or even Linux in general, whilst keeping some of the pressure from the team of problem-solvers here.

Chris

Ok, fair enough. But I guess the flip side of this is that I will never see a post on Facebook unless I go looking for it. To me, that limits the number of eyes on the problem. And I did check out the Facebook page and while I understand what you are saying about it's ease of use I do not find Facebook easy to follow. I find it confusing and things are always popping up on the screen and there does not seem to be any structure for Topics. I can see the ease of placing pictures or videos. But overall I do not personally find Facebook easier than a good forum. As for replacing the forum, maybe that will happen one day. Everything changes. But I think that as long as there are a lot of old-timers using Linux we will keep the forum. Maybe we'll glance at Facebook once in a while. When the next generation takes over maybe it will all be on Facebook.

And what happens on Facebook if someone is rude or a troll? Are you saying that type of behavior is absent on Facebook? People stay away from forums because they don't want to be mistreated? I doubt that is the case in general. I would imagine they would stay away on Facebook too if they didn't like the way they were talked to (or typed to).

And can the developers be expected to support an unofficial user forum like Facebook? I can see a developer group choosing to support a Facebook page. But should they be EXPECTED to support both a forum and Facebook, and Twitter, Instagram, etc. etc. etc.? Is a distro going to lose favor if they don't officially support Facebook, or Twitter, or whatever? Maybe. I'm old, so I don't understand this obsession with all these social media outlets. But I sure wouldn't like it if I was told support is only available through Facebook. I would adjust. But I wouldn't like it, since I like the good old-fashioned Forum.

I also question the sanity of everything going on Facebook, or any corporate controlled social platform. It seems to me the community is better off staying away from potential manipulation of a corporate overlord. I like that I don't have to watch ads or toe the line to be here in this forum. I'm not so sure that can be preserved if everything goes to Facebook or the like.

Just my opinions. I can see your point of view. No worries.

Seaken64

To take your points in order:

You will never see a post anywhere unless you look for it, and the Facebook group search function works far better than the search function for this forum. No one has suggested that the Facebook group should replace the forum; I thought I had made that clear? Old timer or not, the forum and the Facebook group can both continue in parallel, and for what it's worth I'm 73, and a big user of social media in general.

Because you can only post on the Facebook group if you have been accepted, a member of the admin team has very fine-grained control over how to deal with anyone who doesn't post appropriately. It's actually easier to administer than the forum. You can delete a user's post, mute them for a period (known as being in Facebook jail), stop further commenting on a post, or ultimately kick a user off. You can do those things with or without automatic notification to the user. Oh, and it does happen!

In general, the developers are not members of that group. Where users there post things intended for the developers, it is made clear to them that they need to post in the forum. I repeat - there is no intention to replace the forum with anything else. The Facebook group has taken up a fair bit of time for a few people, but it is gradually reaching a point where there enough users with some knowledge to help each other. Far from detracting from the ability of the developers here to provide support, I like to think that the kind of first-level help the Facebook group provides is leaving the developers more able to get on with more complex issues.

The question of the community being affected by the potential manipulation of a corporate overlord is a bit far-fetched; there is an oversight of pretty much all that is done on-line (and off it) nowadays, so you would have to live off-grid to avoid it. You can avoid much of the advertising with browser add-ons.

I hope this has put your mind at rest, and perhaps reassure others that might have their doubts.

Chris

Yes, mind is at ease! Like I said, I can see your point of view. I know some people are going to like the social media, or Facebook, style of communication better than a forum. And I admit to not being one of them. I find Facebook extremely difficult to adapt to. And I am never quite sure what is happening to whatever I decide to post. I visit every once in a while to see if I am more comfortable. So far, I still find it cumbersome and confusing.

But I suppose that's the way some others feel in a forum. To each their own, right?

My comment about the corporate oversight was meant to highlight the nature of the platform. It has already been exploited many times. I prefer not contributing to herd thinking or manipulation. Not that this happens on all Facebook groups. I know it does not apply to all groups. But it could happen if a group were so inclined to manipulate reality. I don't see the official forum becoming a tool for misinformation. I suspect the developers would close it down before that could happen. But if the developers are not involved in the Facebook group how can they dispel misinformation? I would hope no manipulation would ever happen. But the platform allows it, or makes it possible by it's nature.

I hope I end up wrong and off base on this. Maybe Facebook will prove to be a most valuable place for information in the future. As it stands I do not think it is beyond reproach in this matter.

In truth I am not a Facebook fan. I am negative about it. But I do appreciate it's positive points and what you have shared with us. Only at the same time I can not overlook it's negative points. Time will tell if I can get as much out of the Facebook groups as I do the forums.

Seaken64

"You will never see a post anywhere unless you look for it"

That is not what I meant. What I am trying to say is that unless I go to the Facebook MX group I will not see those discussions. And neither will anyone else who does not go to Facebook. The same can be said of this Forum. But the way I see it is that this forum is where discussions about MX should be. And the more information there is on the forum the better for others who can benefit from that information.

Seaken64

For me it would be a fan page. For real help I always come here to the forums.

This is not hard: if you think discussions should be here, stay here; other users (2,186 ATM) think FB is better, so stay there.

People are free to follow their preferences, right?!

Jerry3904 wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:50 pm This is not hard: if you think discussions should be here, stay here; other users (2,186 ATM) think FB is better, so stay there.

People are free to follow their preferences, right?!

Yes, I get that. But what I am trying to highlight is that valuable information on the subject of MX is missing if not shared here. Visa-versa for the Facebook only crowd, valuable information and expert input is missing.

I agree about the preferences and personal tastes.

Artim, interesting take. I consider myself a fan of MX. I just never separated that from the official forum.

Honestly, If I was the boss I might say it's time to move everything to social media. "No one uses forums anymore"! That's the way I hear it said all the time. "No one does that any more". Then I think to myself, "but I do". But if "everyone" is now using social media than that's where we need to be right? Thankfully I am not the boss at MX. It will be tough to keep everyone happy, as always.

Seaken64

My estimate is that there are about 600 active posters her perhaps less. I have no estimate for active Facebook users but clearly it is an active contributory site to MX. My preference is the Forum for many reasons not the least of which is that the devs live here. However I would not under estimate the value of Facebook to MX and I believe it will continue to grow.
The Forum will not go away and will continue to be the main source for MX support along with the Website in a different fashion. Facebook will not go away and be an auxiliary support venue for those who prefer it.

By the way Facebook users are often referred to the Forum for specific answers.

seaken64 wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:07 pm

Jerry3904 wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:50 pm This is not hard: if you think discussions should be here, stay here; other users (2,186 ATM) think FB is better, so stay there.

People are free to follow their preferences, right?!

Yes, I get that. But what I am trying to highlight is that valuable information on the subject of MX is missing if not shared here. Visa-versa for the Facebook only crowd, valuable information and expert input is missing.

I agree about the preferences and personal tastes.

Artim, interesting take. I consider myself a fan of MX. I just never separated that from the official forum.

Honestly, If I was the boss I might say it's time to move everything to social media. "No one uses forums anymore"! That's the way I hear it said all the time. "No one does that any more". Then I think to myself, "but I do". But if "everyone" is now using social media than that's where we need to be right? Thankfully I am not the boss at MX. It will be tough to keep everyone happy, as always.

Seaken64

As my mother used to say, "If everyone was jumping off a cliff would you do it too?"

I remember the time when "No one wears straight-legged jeans anymore." You don't see that many pairs of bell-bottoms in the stores these days though.

If I was distro-hopping and found out that the only means of getting support was on a social media platform I'd immediately move on to the next distro. I imagine that some people might feel that way about the forum. Isn't it nice that MX, like Linux itself, offers people alternatives and choice?

"Isn't it nice that MX, like Linux itself, offers people alternatives and choice?"

Yes, and on that note I am going to put away my bias and go read the Facebook group! HaHa! But I'll be back.

Seaken64

I kid around on facebook more than I do here.
Being facebook. If their skin is not thick enough for super power ignore mode.
Grin at ignorance,meaness, or what.
Being as loosy goosy as reddit sometimes, I guess.

Then get a life, or something. If I get kicked out of the group. No harm no foul. I* only hang around to help.
I need more free time outside of computers. Cuz I got a life.

I look at neg input online as instructional in my use case.
I'd rather know up front if one does not care for me .
Only hurts for sec and then I remember what I just posted.
Being in the know is a good thing.
Being happy with your self. Even better.
Only place I don't use the ignore list is sites I mod at.
Facebook has a ignore option also.

richb wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:13 pm My estimate is that there are about 600 active posters her perhaps less. I have no estimate for active Facebook users but clearly it is an active contributory site to MX. My preference is the Forum for many reasons not the least of which is that the devs live here. However I would not under estimate the value of Facebook to MX and I believe it will continue to grow.
The Forum will not go away and will continue to be the main source for MX support along with the Website in a different fashion. Facebook will not go away and be an auxiliary support venue for those who prefer it.

By the way Facebook users are often referred to the Forum for specific answers.

From Facebook data for the group, it has had 130 new members in the last 28 days, and there have been 3,400 posts, comments, and reactions in the same period.

Chris

I never opened a FB account and will not be doing so in the future. Just read their TOS and their tracking methods, it is so anti FOSS.

My relatives don't give a crap about nothing computer or data related. All they want is platform to communicate with each other other than email.

I don't over think this stuff either. To old to worry about the rest of my life.

Edit: Only way my sis will see my happy birthday wishes. She lives there.

I dislike Facebook but find it necessary to keep in contact with parts of my family and several good friends.
A long time ago I wanted to set something up where family would email a chain letter and it would make the rounds and when it got back to you you would just delete your old info and add new.
I was too busy to ever get it going. The family gravitated to Facebook. At first I told them I did not want anything to do with it. Then there were illnesses in the family and I found it to be the only place to get information, so much for resisting. I try to limit my use, but it is hard sometimes.
I do check the MX FB page once in awhile but for the most part I stay here on the forum.