MX Linux Forum

Because of the systemd-sysVinit energy here, I'm creating a thread where folks can share ideas on:

--- how-to clean systemd off *buntu, arch & other distros and/or
--- where to look for refuge from the 1 million lines of systemd baggage... :lipsrsealed:

By way of kicking things off and in honor of @rasat's fine work to remove systemd, I offer the following (links). I don't know how good these guides are, but they may offer some help.

http://dquinton.github.io/debian-instal ... stemd.html
https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-replace- ... bian-linux
https://appuals.com/remove-systemd-ubuntu-permanently/
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/OpenRC

I let the pros remove systemd.

dreamer wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:31 pm I let the pros remove systemd.

If I may recommend... then stick with MX & or antiX. No matter what happens on MX, I'm pretty certain @anticapitalista and his team on antiX will keep antiX systemd free.

manyroads wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:45 pm........... I'm pretty certain @anticapitalista and his team on antiX will keep antiX systemd free.

I hope you are right, but the big problem for both AntiX and Devuan is the absence of systemd-shim in Buster: how can they solve it?
Or am I misunderstanding the problem?

I'm still confused.
Must MX (and Devuan?) stop using the Debian repos to keep using sysvinit?

No.

Based on my non-tech layman's understanding, antiX just uses some clever means to filter out all systemd-related packages in Debian repos from being installed or pulled into antiX, so that the non-systemd analogues/replacements from antiX's nosystemd repo gets installed instead.

This is what antiX is already doing. It's already free of systemd packages.

MX up to version 18 is different because it was using Debian repos as is, without the antiX nosystemd repo. So MX contains systemd packages within, even though it boots into sysV by default. Up to Debian Stretch, the systemd-shim package in Debian's repo was maintained and allowed users of MX (and Debian users if they knew what to do, I guess) to choose to boot into either systemd or sysV normally while just running Debian repos. It was this freedom of choice of init that MX tried to keep.

That co-existence won't be possible anymore in Buster, because the shim package is no longer maintained. If you go full Debian, you will be on systemd. Having the sysV packages will now conflict with systemd packages.

If you want sysV, you have to do what antiX does and filter out the systemd stuff from Debian repos. Meaning your installation of a sysV-only system cannot be booted into systemd at all.

Thanks, asquerth: I see it more clearly now.
I hope that AntiX buster manages to solve its problems.
My other wish is that MX will forget about the 9% of users who want systemd (they could use straight debian instead) and just make MX sysviinit only.

GuiGuy wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:04 am I hope you are right, but the big problem for both AntiX and Devuan is the absence of systemd-shim in Buster: how can they solve it?

AntiX 19 is solving the absence of systemd-shim for lightweight DE and WM. @manyroads has created one prototype for Xfce.
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=50543

What's also needed, MX 19 prototype which runs all DE including KDE and Gnome. Devuan does the job but beowulf packages will be slightly behind buster. Also it may not provide all packages. Most users will not mind running systemd in next MX major release (19). But when knowing the advantages of SysVinit speed and instant apps respond, its worthy to have an systemd-free alternative.

I am still curious to know what does it take to get AntiX to run all DE. Sounds better, as well as more acceptable by many MX users to have "MX powered by AntiX" than "Devuan". There is MX forum and community support. @manyroad can you get Gnome to run in your prototype?

GuiGuy wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:22 am Thanks, asquerth: I see it more clearly now.
I hope that AntiX buster manages to solve its problems.
My other wish is that MX will forget about the 9% of users who want systemd (they could use straight debian instead) and just make MX sysviinit only.

I will upload an xfce antiX19 alpha snapshot, later this week. It uses Buster; you'll see it works quite well. In the end (my layman's opinion) I think you can always use a flatpak of an app that might not be available in the antiX repos (or use a snap or appimage). I know that eats disk, but it keeps the 1 million line of code systemd corralled.

At lest that's how I understand things.