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Re: MX-19: FEEDBACK of latest GRUB 2.04-9~mx19+5 update
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:30 pm
by fehlix
PeterPiper wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:58 pm
this command
Code: Select all
[ -d /sys/firmware/efi ] && echo UEFI || echo BIOS
answerd with
I will try again tomorrow to fix the problem. I have a Live Systen on USB and will try to fix it then. Many thanks to you
If you boot in UEFI, the grub-upgrade normaly would not ask to install to MBR. So I wonder why you would have seen the GRUB Device install window, which is only usefull for MBR/BIOS grub-install. The only reason I can think of might be, grub-upgrade detected an MBR-installation at the boot drive.
The UEFI grub loader wont be overwritten by grub update. But you can still run MX Boot Repair, to recreate the EFI-grub-loader and for UEFI you would need to select ESP to re-install the EFI-grub loader, not the MBR.
My GRUB update went well...
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:38 pm
by esbeeb
Thank you, MX devs!!
Re: MX-19: FEEDBACK of latest GRUB 2.04-9~mx19+5 update
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:33 pm
by SwampRabbit
oops wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:13 pm
... Yes, it will be the most efficient thing to do.
It’s not that it’s the “most efficient”... it’s that it’s the only thing to do. I don’t think we’ll be forking GRUB any time soon. Like fehlix has pointed out, GRUB doesn’t leave you having out to dry with no info or help. And if a user needs more help, all they have to do is ask.
Another thing to understand is right now other distros are having much worse times with GRUB than we are. I think we are very lucky right now.
Re: MX-19: FEEDBACK of latest GRUB 2.04-9~mx19+5 update
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:42 pm
by oops
SwampRabbit wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:33 pm
It’s not that it’s the “most efficient”... it’s that it’s the only thing to do. I don’t think we’ll be forking GRUB any time soon. Like fehlix has pointed out, GRUB doesn’t leave you having out to dry with no info or help. And if a user needs more help, all they have to do is ask.
Another thing to understand is right now other distros are having much worse times with GRUB than we are. I think we are very lucky right now.
... In my mind, I said the "most efficient thing to do" for all distribs and all support of distribs, not only for MX.
Re: MX-19: FEEDBACK of latest GRUB 2.04-9~mx19+5 update
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:58 pm
by seaken64
After the upgrade and reboot I got nothing but a blinking cursor in the upper left of a black screen. But I knew what to do. I rebooted with LiveUSB and ran MX Boot Repair. Then I shutdown, removed the USB key drive and rebooted using my F12 key to choose my boot disk in Legacy mode. The Grub came up and I booted into MX.
But I think the problem is that many people do not understand how a computer boots. They don't understand BIOS/MBR, UEFI, GPT, ESP, MX Boot Repair, etc. It's all very complex if you are not a techie user.
Is there a way to "postpone" the upgrade of grub when using the MX Updater icon? I know you can abort if you know what your are looking for. But if you just launch the upgrade and then get to the Grub upgrade screen from Debian and Grub can there be a choice to put it off? Skip it until you are ready? Then the user can come here and ask questions and read up on how to proceed with the Grub upgrade, partition to choose, how to recover using MX Boot Repair, etc. Now armed with this information they can re-launch the upgrade and when they get to the Grub screen they can proceed.
Seaken64
Re: MX-19: FEEDBACK of latest GRUB 2.04-9~mx19+5 update
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:48 pm
by SwampRabbit
I don’t think that’s possible right now with just MX Updater, it’s be different if they were updating via MX Package Installer it Synaptic though.
One thing to understand is Debian already pushed a update for the stock version of GRUB that comes with Debian Buster, ours is actually newer. So there is no way to really avoid it unless you update manually.
Remember this is all because of a vulnerability in GRUB, although very limited in being exploited. Damned if we do, damned if we don’t. We made sure to minimize issues as much as possible. In time this GRUB updating issue will pass until the next one.
Re: MX-19: FEEDBACK of latest GRUB 2.04-9~mx19+5 update
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:05 pm
by fehlix
seaken64 wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:58 pm
Is there a way to "postpone" the upgrade of grub when using the MX Updater icon?
Just press n, when you get asked to confirm to install.
And if you get the grub-upgrade popup for the GRUB-upgrade, do read the help text, and in doubt which boot drive to select, do select all drives.
Re: MX-19: FEEDBACK of latest GRUB 2.04-9~mx19+5 update
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:45 pm
by paul1149
Hi guys,
I don't know if this is exactly germane to the discussion you're looking for, but here goes. The update here went fine, on MX 19 with KDE. But my heart sank when I saw the dialog, because I thought of the friends and customers I had installed MX for, and how not one of them would have a clue what to do with it. I wish there could be an option to leave the configuration as it is, and that it would be set as the default, with a note saying leave it there if you don't understand what the dialog is about. I don't know if that's feasible, or if the MX team even has input into that dialog, but those are my thoughts on it.
Be well,
Paul
Re: MX-19: FEEDBACK of latest GRUB 2.04-9~mx19+5 update
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:35 am
by fehlix
paul1149 wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:45 pm
Hi guys,
I don't know if this is exactly germane to the discussion you're looking for, but here goes. The update here went fine, on MX 19 with KDE. But my heart sank when I saw the dialog, because I thought of the friends and customers I had installed MX for, and how not one of them would have a clue what to do with it. I wish there could be an option to leave the configuration as it is, and that it would be set as the default, with a note saying leave it there if you don't understand what the dialog is about. I don't know if that's feasible, or if the MX team even has input into that dialog, but those are my thoughts on it.
Be well,
Paul
This popup-dialog is part of the grub package. And yes, user can decide not generate and install a new grub-loader. If they click on "Next", without selecting the boot device, the have to confirm:
grub-continue-without-installing-bios.png
If you move the mouse over the line you get a nice explanation:
You chose not to install GRUB to any devices. If you continue, the boot
loader may not be properly configured, and when this computer next
starts up it will use whatever was previously in the boot sector. If
there is an earlier version of GRUB 2 in the boot sector, it may be
unable to load modules or handle the current configuration file.
If you are already using a different boot loader and want to carry on
doing so, or if this is a special environment where you do not need a
boot loader, then you should continue anyway. Otherwise, you should
install GRUB somewhere.
FWIW, you can always re-configure the grub-package to get the the popup-dialog, this way:
In any case, if something goes wrong, we have three fallbacks:
1: MX Boot Repair
2: boot from LiveUSB -> Switch to Grub Boot Loader -> Boot Rescue Menus -> Find Grub loader /menus
3: from LiveUSB -> Chroot Rescue Scan: To "chroot" into the installed system and run
sudo "grub-install /dev/sd[abc]" or alternatively, run as above "
sudo dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc"
EDIT: no need for sudo within the chroot on the installed system.
Re: MX-19: FEEDBACK of latest GRUB 2.04-9~mx19+5 update
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:12 am
by paul1149
fehlix wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:35 am
This popup-dialog is part of the grub package.
If you move the mouse over the line you get a nice explanation:
You chose not to install GRUB to any devices. If you continue, the boot
loader may not be properly configured, and when this computer next
starts up it will use whatever was previously in the boot sector. If
there is an earlier version of GRUB 2 in the boot sector, it may be
unable to load modules or handle the current configuration file.
If you are already using a different boot loader and want to carry on
doing so, or if this is a special environment where you do not need a
boot loader, then you should continue anyway. Otherwise, you should
install GRUB somewhere.
FWIW, you can always re-configure the grub-package to get the the popup-dialog, this way:
In any case, if something goes wrong, we have three fallbacks:
1: MX Boot Repair
2: boot from LiveUSB -> Switch to Grub Boot Loader -> Boot Rescue Menus -> Find Grub loader /menus
3: from LiveUSB -> Chroot Rescue Scan: To "chroot" into the installed system and run
sudo "grub-install /dev/sd[abc]" or alternatively, run as above "
sudo dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc"
EDIT: no need for sudo within the chroot on the installed system.
Thanks, fehlix, I hadn't seen that follow-up screen, as I always made a choice at the initial one.
My philosophy is that things should be as simple as possible, or at least explained as simply as possible. I can guarantee that most if not all of my Linux "children" will have problems with that dialog and would not know to use live media for repair use. Maybe some simple guidance like, "most systems will have Grub installed on the boot sector of the main drive" would be all most would need. But it sounds like this is a grub, not an MX, issue.