What init system do you use on MX, the default (sysVinit) or systemd?

[beardedragon]

As the upstream dev for sysvinit, it's nice to see lots of people still find it useful.

So, you are the reason this all works? IMO, Well done!

[sbryant]

I'm new to the MX LInux community and don't yet have a strong opinion on sysvinit vs systemd. I am grateful that when I ran into an issue with open-vm-tools and sysvinit not working properly with vmware, that someone suggested using on systemd. Not only was I able to get things working properly, but it also helped to identify a potential need for an init script modification in sysvinit. If not for that suggestion, I might have given up because I was unable to get a key piece of functionality to work the way I needed it to work using the default.

While I understand the philosophical argument for using sysvinit instead of systemd, I'm left wondering: Why is it that so many other distributions are comfortable moving to systemd? It leads me to ask a few questions:

1. First, what (if anything) are we missing? Perhaps we're not missing anything at all. But why is it that others distribution appear much more comfortable with the switch?
2. Second, is staying with sysvinit the right long-term approach *IF* the Linux community is, in large part, moving to systemd? Is systemd viewed as the 'new direction" and we're going to be left behind? Or does it even matter? I guess, outside of the philosophical points, I don't understand what the two choices mean to the average user.
3. Third, *IF* the Linux community is moving in large part to systemd, will we see more apps that require it to run properly? Is that a potential problem? Again, I'm trying to understand what this means to the average user.
4. Fourth, is there a way to improve many systemd to address many of the points / short-comings that led people to want to remain on sysvinit? Would this be a win for the broader Linux community?

Anyway, I hope these questions represent "food for thought" as you consider your alternatives.

Edit: Note, I say "*IF*" because I am asking a question, not because I have any information that says this is the case.

Edit 2: Removed questions based on subsequent input from dolphin_oracle and skidoo (both below).

[dolphin_oracle]

I appreciate the questions, however this is an area that usually opens up some debate and I don't want this thread to become another rehash of past arguments.

here's the short short answer: the antiX live system is designed to work with sysVinit. there are a few things that don't work under systemd, so we use sysVinit by default.

I'm not speaking for everyone when I say this, but I personally don't care what init system folks used. I have no crusade, but I'm not giving up the antiX live system because the antiX live system is awesome!

[skidoo]

1.
2.
3.
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sbryant, we can meetup in another topic after you've perused the reading material linked to the following wiki pages:
Arguments_against_systemd
and
List_of_articles_critical_of_systemd

[sbryant]

@dolphin_oracle and @skidoo, thanks for the reply. I didn't realize what I had stepped into by asking the questions until after scanning and reading a few links in the wiki pages that @skidoo shared. This topic runs much deeper than the questions I asked. I can understand why we wouldn't want this thread to become a debate.

[rs55]

I appreciate the questions, however this is an area that usually opens up some debate and I don't want this thread to become another rehash of past arguments.

here's the short short answer: the antiX live system is designed to work with sysVinit. there are a few things that don't work under systemd, so we use sysVinit by default.

I'm not speaking for everyone when I say this, but I personally don't care what init system folks used. I have no crusade, but I'm not giving up the antiX live system because the antiX live system is awesome!

Yesss. Antix Live is one of the crown jewels of the MX system.

[Splash]

Anbox works only on systemd. So i need to switch. other than that i use sysvinit.

[KBD]

I think if Debian Buster can only run one init system we need a new poll something like:

If you have to choose only one init system for MX, which do you choose?

1. sysVinit
2. systemd

Despite my angst against systemd, in that poll I would choose systemd, even though I picked sysVinit in this one because systemd has fixed some issues for me that I had with sysVinit. With the shim on Debian Stretch we never really had to make a hard choice between the two, but it looks like we may have to in Debian Buster.

[Roberto]

If it is necessary in Debian Buster to commit to an init system, then I very much hope that it will not be systemd. I have not been using distributions with systemd for years, and so far MX Linux was my first choice. I do not want an init system that, in my view, rejects UNIX's original approach and has become a monolithic, hard-to-overlook block, gaining in complexity without any noticeable advantage.
How mighty systemd has become meanwhile shows that it consists of more than 1.2 million lines of code. Just five years ago, it was 600,000 and in 2013, three years after the launch of systemd, just 200,000.

If MX Linux really decides to use systemd instead of sysVinit, would that be the all-important reason for me to switch to another systemdfree distribution for example Artix Linux.

[beardedragon]

If it is necessary in Debian Buster to commit to an init system, then I very much hope that it will not be systemd. I have not been using distributions with systemd for years, and so far MX Linux was my first choice. I do not want an init system that, in my view, rejects UNIX's original approach and has become a monolithic, hard-to-overlook block, gaining in complexity without any noticeable advantage.
How mighty systemd has become meanwhile shows that it consists of more than 1.2 million lines of code. Just five years ago, it was 600,000 and in 2013, three years after the launch of systemd, just 200,000.

If MX Linux really decides to use systemd instead of sysVinit, would that be the all-important reason for me to switch to another systemdfree distribution for example Artix Linux.

I'd go with antiX first.