MX Linux Forum

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 9:49 am**

See

1) https://kde.org/for/w10-exiles/
2) https://endof10.org/

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 10:08 am**

Been the same every time support ends.

No fight at all. The users either pick one or the other.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 10:58 am**

Meh,

Linux will certainly not lose ground with GenX and Boomers but in my experience despite being raised with computers as a daily reality Millennials and GenZ seem much less hands on with hardware (as always there are exceptions). Their generations are often used to being handed a complete 'device' experience and simply getting a new one as needed because their helicopter parents can't endure to see them lacking long enough to find their own solutions.. I think many people will just use their phones more instead of personal computers and leave other needs to their work (or their spouses) computers which will remain with Windows. Any uptick in Linux adoption will probably revert to a degree when people who need specific Windows workflows get frustrated enough to bend the knee and accept Windows 11. Relatively few people who enjoyed Windows 10 are going to suddenly grow a strong opinion about OS politics, they are more likely to take the path of least resistance which will be Win 10+ extended security or Win 11..

Just my opinion.. take with the necessary volume of salt..

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:47 am**

@AVLinux
I am so far away from GenZ (and GenX for that matter) that I know squat about their proclivities. However your assessment seems sound to me.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 12:01 pm**

"Is Linux fighting back?"

Have you ever heard Torvald talk?

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 2:49 pm**

Fighting? No, there's nothing to fight about really. The only time we use desktop computers is in the computer lab at school, and maybe the one in the library to find a resource we need for a school paper or project. The rest of the time it's tablets and smartphones, unless you're a nerd like I am. My friends at school don't know the difference between Windows, Mac, or Linux. They're all just "computers" like the ones at school; that our parents used to use at home or in the office.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 3:06 pm**

AVLinux wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 10:58 am I think many people will just use their phones more instead of personal computers and leave other needs to their work (or their spouses) computers which will remain with Windows.

If my experience is any indication, this has already happened, and happened long ago. Gone are the days when the home computer was the centerpiece of ones online experience. I once had a pretty decent side gig going fixing PCs and cleaning up infected Windows systems. That went away when people reverted to their phones, Windows got a lot more secure and less prone to infection, and the price dropped to the point where people could just go buy a new laptop for $300 rather than pay me $100-150 to fix their five year old machine.

I gave up fixing Windows machines quite a while ago. The only thing I'll do now is take an old machine down to bare metal, install a load of MX-KDE, tweak it a tad, and hand it back to them. No charge. Those that accept that appear to be happy with them -- I never hear back from them.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 3:31 pm**

Eadwine Rose wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 10:08 am Been the same every time support ends.

That reminded me that 'support ending' is much more of a common thing to encounter in Linux, even if you use up to date Debian Stable variants or Ubuntu's LTS releases you're look at 2-3 years max (of course for uber nerds and experienced Linux people longer lifespans can be coaxed out) . Linux support ends in other ways too when they do huge sweeping system deep changes like systemd, PipeWire and in the nearing future Wayland. I think most general daily computer Users coming from Windows are going to be rather shocked when they encounter the gnat-like short lived lifespans of Linux Distributions vs. how long a supported Windows version lasts and of course there are numerous corporate greed and privacy things to not enjoy about Microsoft but you cannot fault them for not making a long-supported backward compatible OS that doesn't tear the rug out from under your feet with it's subsystems changing all the time, love or hate Windows they prioritize this kind of stuff MUCH better than Linux and those are the kind of things that actually attract and keep non-enthusiast type of people on a given platform.

I still require and use Windows 10 for a lot of Video production workflow, I love Linux and it is my main squeeze for other things and it does it very well but I haven't yet decided how even I am going to deal with the end of Win 10 support, I already moved to Linux more than 15 years ago and it's been wonderful but not enough for a full exile experience but for many general Users it certainly might be, but there is much more to get used to than the Desktop Environment simply being different..

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 4:21 pm**

I am a Boomer. Have always loved PC's / Laptops. Have always loved building a home PC, modifying PC / Laptop components, improving perofrmance. Guess I am a " Geek by nature, Linux by choice " type of person. I do hate using smartphones for anything except making / receiving calls, sending / receiving SMS, listening to music or taking pics. I don't feel the need to buy a new cell phone each year. I don't feel the need to be on my smartphone every minute of the day either.
When I worked in healthcare, part of my job was doing lung testing, which required use of MS Win based PC. Nothing like coming in to work in the morning and seeing displayed on your PC screen that you have been automatically updated to the latest MS Win OS, which in turn, crashes the lung testing software ( as in, it's not friggin working at all ). All attempts by Tech Support people could not reset MS Win back to previous version. I have not used any MS Win device in the last 5 years. Whenever anyone has a problem with their Windows device and they ask for help, I say, " Sorry, I don't do Windows ". Then I jump into showing them Linux OS. But, most Windows users don't really care and they will pay the slave tax and buy a new PC with the latest version of Win OS. So sad. Although Linux OS is great, don't like the " End of Life " situation most distros have, which forces you to re-install Linux OS. Maybe if all Linux distributions went to a " rolling release " model, you wouldn't have to keep re-installing ( which most users won't want to do ). Just wondering.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 5:10 pm**

What 99.9% of die hard windows users don't realize is that it is a simple matter to use Rufus to install windows 11 on nearly any modern PC/Laptop that M$ says will not support windows 11.

I actually did it to my wife's laptop. She's one of those die hard windows users although I did persuade her to dual boot. She still likes windows but does boot up linux on a regular basis.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 5:37 pm**

Germ wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 5:10 pm What 99.9% of die hard windows users don't realize is that it is a simple matter to use Rufus to install windows 11

Scot Hacker outlined this issue in his 2001 essay "He Who Controls the Bootloader":

It is statistically unlikely that a person purchasing a new computer is ever going to change its operating system -- the OS that comes with the computer you buy at the local computer mega-store is probably going to be the OS you use for years, if not forever.

It is unrealistic to expect most Windows users to ever mess with the bootloader, let alone fetch a special utility, download an ISO, write it to a USB drive, and run it. Users almost entirely use what comes on the machine when they buy it and never manually change it.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 7:24 pm**

txm0523 wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 4:21 pm I am a Boomer. Have always loved PC's / Laptops. Have always loved building a home PC, modifying PC / Laptop components, improving perofrmance. Guess I am a " Geek by nature, Linux by choice " type of person. I do hate using smartphones for anything except making / receiving calls, sending / receiving SMS, listening to music or taking pics. I don't feel the need to buy a new cell phone each year. I don't feel the need to be on my smartphone every minute of the day either.
When I worked in healthcare, part of my job was doing lung testing, which required use of MS Win based PC. Nothing like coming in to work in the morning and seeing displayed on your PC screen that you have been automatically updated to the latest MS Win OS, which in turn, crashes the lung testing software ( as in, it's not friggin working at all ). All attempts by Tech Support people could not reset MS Win back to previous version. I have not used any MS Win device in the last 5 years. Whenever anyone has a problem with their Windows device and they ask for help, I say, " Sorry, I don't do Windows ". Then I jump into showing them Linux OS. But, most Windows users don't really care and they will pay the slave tax and buy a new PC with the latest version of Win OS. So sad. Although Linux OS is great, don't like the " End of Life " situation most distros have, which forces you to re-install Linux OS. Maybe if all Linux distributions went to a " rolling release " model, you wouldn't have to keep re-installing ( which most users won't want to do ). Just wondering.

It seems like you are close to the way I am. I am what is considered a Boomer which I am at the later part near the end of the Boomer scale. I hate SmartPhones which I call it a StupidPhone. I have trouble seeing and resizing the screen makes it even more annoying. I have one brother that's a boomer and he can't understand why I don't like SmartPhones and Texting while I have a younger brother who is not a Boomer so I don't know what he would be considered and believes these names of Boomer or what ever is just stupid but we understand each other and agree when it comes to phones. My younger brother was born in 1970 which I don't know which silly term he would be called.

I found the StupidPhone works best when I don't activate anything or install any apps and found Motorola with a Stylus works best for me while my younger brother agrees with me while my older brother can't understand. My younger brother came up with the term of Apphole. An Apphole is someone that loves to install a lot of apps ignoring all the issue that can possibly come with them. Both of my folks consider my older brother to be the smart one in the family which is laughable ludicrous.

As for computers my oldest brother uses an Apple Laptop computer and has an iPhone and wears an Apple Stool-Pigeon device on his wrist but he can't understand why his health insurance premiums have increased after wearing and registering Apple Stool-Pigeon device on his wrist.

And he is suppose to be the smart one of the family.

My younger brother said it the best when it comes to our older brother. "He is the stupidest smart person he ever met." I concur with my younger brothers description of our older brother. My younger brother has a similar phone to what I have an have set it up the same way. He uses a Laptop computer with Windows 7 on it and doesn't care about security since he doesn't use the Laptop computer for anything important that would require security. His words are he doesn't have time or wants to go through switching to LINUX since he is still working. As for myself, I have a SmartPhone AKA (StupidPhone) which I only have it because an old style flip phone causes the head unit to hard freeze in my Subaru when ever the phone call is ended. I only use the StupidPhone as a phone and rarely text because I hate texting so much but works with the head-unit in my Subaru Forester Limited which it can read texts sent to me and I can talk and receive on calls using the hands free function over the speakers in the car when and if it can due to phones worked fine without issue until they went with wireless. I have an Acer Laptop low end specs but with the larger 17.3 inch screen and I didn't even give Windows a chance to boot up to installed and upgrade to MX LINUX and later upgraded to a 1 Tb SSD and to 8 GB Ram which I use when I travel. My desktop computer I built myself from scratch. Here are it's specs as I use two of the drives to back up to which I need to do and the computer could use a good internal cleaning even though it has case filters that I clean regularly.

Code: Select all

System:
  Kernel: 6.1.0-37-amd64 [6.1.140-1] arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0
    parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-6.1.0-37-amd64 root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet splash
    resume=UUID=<filter> resume_offset=29446144
  Desktop: Xfce v: 4.20.0 tk: Gtk v: 3.24.38 info: xfce4-panel wm: xfwm v: 4.20.0 vt: 7
    dm: LightDM v: 1.32.0 Distro: MX-23.6_x64 Libretto October 15  2023 base: Debian GNU/Linux 12
    (bookworm)
Machine:
  Type: Desktop Mobo: Gigabyte model: B450 AORUS ELITE serial: <superuser required> UEFI: American
    Megatrends LLC. v: F64a date: 02/17/2022
CPU:
  Info: model: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Zen+ gen: 2 level: v3 note: check
    built: 2018-21 process: GF 12nm family: 0x17 (23) model-id: 8 stepping: 2 microcode: 0x800820D
  Topology: cpus: 1x cores: 8 tpc: 2 threads: 16 smt: enabled cache: L1: 768 KiB
    desc: d-8x32 KiB; i-8x64 KiB L2: 4 MiB desc: 8x512 KiB L3: 16 MiB desc: 2x8 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 2181 high: 2200 min/max: 2200/3700 boost: enabled scaling:
    driver: acpi-cpufreq governor: ondemand cores: 1: 2193 2: 2200 3: 2163 4: 2200 5: 2200 6: 2195
    7: 2190 8: 2200 9: 2194 10: 2158 11: 2200 12: 2191 13: 2176 14: 2061 15: 2187 16: 2200
    bogomips: 118177
  Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm
  Vulnerabilities:
  Type: gather_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: indirect_target_selection status: Not affected
  Type: itlb_multihit status: Not affected
  Type: l1tf status: Not affected
  Type: mds status: Not affected
  Type: meltdown status: Not affected
  Type: mmio_stale_data status: Not affected
  Type: reg_file_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: retbleed mitigation: untrained return thunk; SMT vulnerable
  Type: spec_rstack_overflow mitigation: safe RET
  Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl
  Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
  Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Retpolines; IBPB: conditional; STIBP: disabled; RSB filling;
    PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected; BHI: Not affected
  Type: srbds status: Not affected
  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
Graphics:
  Device-1: AMD Baffin [Radeon RX 550 640SP / 560/560X] vendor: XFX Pine driver: amdgpu v: kernel
    arch: GCN-4 code: Arctic Islands process: GF 14nm built: 2016-20 pcie: gen: 3 speed: 8 GT/s
    lanes: 8 ports: active: DVI-D-1 empty: DP-1,HDMI-A-1 bus-ID: 07:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:67ff
    class-ID: 0300 temp: 48.0 C
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 compositor: xfwm v: 4.20.0 driver: X: loaded: amdgpu
    dri: radeonsi gpu: amdgpu display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1536x864 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 407x229mm (16.02x9.02") s-diag: 467mm (18.39")
  Monitor-1: DVI-D-1 mapped: DVI-D-0 model: Acer S271HL serial: <filter> built: 2019
    res: 1536x864 hz: 60 dpi: 65 gamma: 1.2 size: 598x336mm (23.54x13.23") diag: 686mm (27")
    ratio: 16:9 modes: max: 1920x1080 min: 720x400
  API: OpenGL v: 4.6 Mesa 24.2.8-1mx23ahs renderer: AMD Radeon RX 550 Series (radeonsi polaris11
    LLVM 15.0.6 DRM 3.49 6.1.0-37-amd64) direct-render: Yes
Audio:
  Device-1: AMD Baffin HDMI/DP Audio [Radeon RX 550 640SP / 560/560X] vendor: XFX Pine
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: gen: 3 speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 8 bus-ID: 07:00.1
    chip-ID: 1002:aae0 class-ID: 0403
  Device-2: AMD Family 17h HD Audio vendor: Gigabyte driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: gen: 3
    speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 16 bus-ID: 09:00.3 chip-ID: 1022:1457 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-37-amd64 status: kernel-api tools: alsamixer,alsamixergui,amixer
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.0.0 status: off with: 1: pipewire-pulse status: off 2: wireplumber
    status: off 3: pw-jack type: plugin tools: pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl
  Server-2: PulseAudio v: 16.1 status: active tools: pacat,pactl,pavucontrol
Network:
  Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8211/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: Gigabyte
    driver: r8169 v: kernel pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: f000 bus-ID: 03:00.0
    chip-ID: 10ec:8168 class-ID: 0200
  IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
  IF-ID-1: wg0-mullvad state: unknown speed: N/A duplex: N/A mac: N/A
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 22.3 TiB used: 6.07 TiB (27.2%)
  SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
  ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 maj-min: 259:0 model: PCIe SSD size: 476.94 GiB block-size: physical: 512 B
    logical: 512 B speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 type: SSD serial: <filter> rev: ECFM22.9 temp: 27.9 C
    scheme: GPT
  ID-2: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 870 QVO 8TB size: 7.28 TiB block-size:
    physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: SSD serial: <filter> rev: 2B6Q scheme: GPT
  ID-3: /dev/sdb maj-min: 8:16 vendor: HGST (Hitachi) model: HUS728T8TALE6L4 size: 7.28 TiB
    block-size: physical: 4096 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: HDD rpm: 7200 serial: <filter>
    rev: W414 scheme: GPT
  ID-4: /dev/sdc maj-min: 8:32 vendor: SanDisk model: ST8000DM004-2CX188 size: 7.28 TiB
    block-size: physical: 4096 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: HDD rpm: 5425 serial: <filter>
    rev: 0001 scheme: GPT
Partition:
  ID-1: / raw-size: 475.68 GiB size: 467.14 GiB (98.21%) used: 47.55 GiB (10.2%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/dm-0 maj-min: 253:0 mapped: luks-<filter>
  ID-2: /boot raw-size: 1024 MiB size: 973.4 MiB (95.06%) used: 199.2 MiB (20.5%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2 maj-min: 259:2
  ID-3: /boot/efi raw-size: 250 MiB size: 246.1 MiB (98.46%) used: 415 KiB (0.2%) fs: vfat
    dev: /dev/nvme0n1p1 maj-min: 259:1
  ID-4: /home raw-size: 7.28 TiB size: 7.22 TiB (99.20%) used: 6.02 TiB (83.4%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/dm-1 maj-min: 253:1 mapped: luks-<filter>
Swap:
  Kernel: swappiness: 10 (default 60) cache-pressure: 100 (default)
  ID-1: swap-1 type: file size: 28.39 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2 file: /swap/swap
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 42.5 C mobo: N/A gpu: amdgpu temp: 48.0 C
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A gpu: amdgpu fan: 284
Repos:
  Packages: 2600 pm: dpkg pkgs: 2582 libs: 1294
    tools: apt,apt-get,aptitude,gnome-software,nala,synaptic pm: rpm pkgs: 0 pm: flatpak pkgs: 18
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/brave-browser-release.list
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
    1: deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm-updates main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
    1: deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
    2: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64] https://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-earth-pro.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64] http://dl.google.com/linux/earth/deb/ stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list
    1: deb http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/mxlinux/mx/repo/ bookworm main non-free
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/extrepo_librewolf.sources
    1: deb [arch=amd64 arm64] https://repo.librewolf.net librewolf main
Info:
  Processes: 389 Uptime: 3h 39m wakeups: 1 Memory: 23.39 GiB used: 4.55 GiB (19.5%) Init: SysVinit
  v: 3.06 runlevel: 5 default: graphical tool: systemctl Compilers: gcc: 12.2.0 alt: 12
  Client: shell wrapper v: 5.2.15-release inxi: 3.3.26
Boot Mode: UEFI

The only thing that is holding LINUX back in my opinion is the Developers of WINE have yet to figure out how to get WINE to make "all Windows Programs work on LINUX."

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 8:30 pm**

@Mauser

If your brother was born in 1970 he is a 'silly' Generation X

, the cutoff point between postwar Boomers and GenX is 1965 (I believe)..

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 8:45 pm**

AVLinux wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 8:30 pm @Mauser

If your brother was born in 1970 he is a 'silly' Generation X :p , the cutoff point between postwar Boomers and GenX is 1965 (I believe)..

The Baby Boom largely ended in 1954 and Generation Jones is considered to run from 1954 to 1965. Many people consider Boomers to fall anywhere between early 1940s and 1966 or so, but one argument against such a late date is that kids born in 1966 were just graduating high school in 1983 and the free love movement was long gone by that time.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:26 pm**

Thanks, now I know. I am 1963 and will let my younger brother know.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:55 pm**

txm0523 wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 4:21 pm.... Maybe if all Linux distributions went to a " rolling release " model, you wouldn't have to keep re-installing ( which most users won't want to do ). Just wondering.

As a multibooter, I can tell you that rolling releases have their own problems.

If they are very aggressively rolling, the users need to learn a lot more about how to handle and maintain their systems. Updates generally need more attention than in Debian Stable. Supporting the uninitiated (or those more used to Debian /Ubuntu fixed releases) can be very tiring and tiresome. Go check out the Manjaro forum.. Sometimes users mess up their system so badly (or think they did) that they give up and do what they thought they wouldn't have to do, ie reinstall.

And it means you'll get the latest versions of software before they are fully ready or stable, or before you are ready for the change because stuff from upstream just gets thrown into the mix (simplistic explanation/description , I know) . Eg. The move to plasma 6 in Arch and thus Manjaro when maybe your favourite plasma 5 widgets have not been upgraded for plasma 6. Or maybe you still prefer Gimp2 but you're forced to move to gimp3.. Packages roll inexorably forward in these distros whether you like it or not. You can try pinning a particular version only for so long before it conflicts with everything else on your system.

If the distro is a more gradual, managed rolling release that enables users to be less hands on, it means the devs have to spend lots of time managing and testing packages behind the scenes, holding back some upgrades until they seem fully ready, etc. You'll either need lots of devs, or you limit the number of applications in your repo so you have less to deal with (eg Solus and PClinuxOS).

So then these distros may not have the apps you want.

No distro suits every single user.

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 12:34 am**

MikeR wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 9:49 am See

1) https://kde.org/for/w10-exiles/
2) https://endof10.org/

I doubt those campaigns will do anything for anyone but preach to the choir. Linux had a chance on netbooks and the market overwhelmingly wanted their Windows back, and get it back they did. They wanted their familiar apps and games. The masses weren't ready for what was on offer. As long as Linux has so many flavours and therefore remains challenging to support, I doubt it will do big numbers. The biggest thing going for it is Microsoft and Apple's spyware making it look like a great alternative. As long as Microsoft and Apple continue on their spyware trajectory, I expect an uptick in market share, but again nothing big because the masses are still sleeping (and Linux is far from consistent).

Of course I am not counting mobile operating systems here, where you can argue that a version of Linux is being used extensively, albeit filled to the brim with spyware.

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 12:37 am**

The end of Windows 10 'support' is VASTLY overrated. Mostly marketing hype to get you on their advertisement spamoragophic eyball torturing thingie they call Windows 11. There still will be high and medium severity security hotfixes issued as they have done before, many times. Even still, an occasional HotFix shows up for Internet Exploder.

Don't believe me? Ask that group of oldsters trading Windows XP merch, laughing at the other group of zealots wearing Windows 7 rollout merch. (I still have my Windows 2003 Server merch)

In a distro (that sounds like a bad breath curative) forum, not a day goes by where a long-time PC user asks about dual-booting Windows 7 and their distro. They're pretty adamant about it. They'd vote for the opposite political party before embracing that new-fangled UEFI....

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 12:51 am**

FullScale4Me wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 12:37 am The end of Windows 10 'support' is VASTLY overrated. Mostly marketing hype to get you on their advertisement spamoragophic eyball torturing thingie they call Windows 11. There still will be high and medium severity security hotfixes issued as they have done before, many times. Even still, an occasional HotFix shows up for Internet Exploder.

LOL, that's exactly right. I consider it a blessing if there were actually no updates from companies pretending to care about security while extensively spying on us, introducing new backdoors. At the end of the day it's the "no security updates!!! Woe is me" fear agenda they always use to push the New Thing on us.

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 1:32 am**

Silly gen Xer huh....

wait till I get silly with my fish.. see if you'll still mock me then

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 2:26 am**

Only a very few Xers in my circle, most are Boomers like me (71), and a few Silent Generation (born from 1928 through 1945).

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 3:54 am**

My wife and I are Boomers (79 and 80 yrs) and longtime Linux users. I tried to interest some other local Linux users recently in forming a "rescue a PC" service for people planning to junk their Win 7 (yep) or Win 10 computer after they'd bought the latest and shiniest Win 11 model. The rescued PC would run Linux. Well, not much interest, really, because who'd want Linux on old hardware? I've had exactly one person tell me they're thinking about Linux because they don't like the ads and spyware on Windows, but said person hasn't gone beyond thinking and probably won't.

I think that Linux for personal and general computing is and will remain a niche interest, mainly for people who want at least some control over what their digital device can do. But what's wrong with niche, piggybacking off developments in the server world where Linux rules?

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 8:31 am**

@user101
You wrote

I consider it a blessing if there were actually no updates from companies pretending to care about security while extensively spying on us

There will probably be no updates, but are you sure the spying will end?
I'm less optimistic...

(Old Boomer, I guess. b. 1943)

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 8:42 am**

linuxbobtas wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 3:54 am My wife and I are Boomers (79 and 80 yrs) and longtime Linux users. I tried to interest some other local Linux users recently in forming a "rescue a PC" service for people planning to junk their Win 7 (yep) or Win 10 computer after they'd bought the latest and shiniest Win 11 model. The rescued PC would run Linux. Well, not much interest, really, because who'd want Linux on old hardware? I've had exactly one person tell me they're thinking about Linux because they don't like the ads and spyware on Windows, but said person hasn't gone beyond thinking and probably won't.

I think that Linux for personal and general computing is and will remain a niche interest, mainly for people who want at least some control over what their digital device can do. But what's wrong with niche, piggybacking off developments in the server world where Linux rules?

Personally, I think that it is going to take a major event like One Drive crashing and burning or Microsoft forcing an annual subscription for Windows rather than the lease for the life of the machine model that we use now before we see anything close to a mass migration.

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 11:13 am**

(soliloquy) Essence of Linux is "Straight and genuine Computing (based on UNIX like theory)", That's not suitable ordinary people.
MS always pay effort to "Windows suitable for ordinary people!" Then they distorts Essence of computing, So Far from Straight and genuine Computing.

Then I think Linux not suitable for normal people essencially. It means no need to spread to ordinary people Linux.

We (Linux Enthusiast) are eccentric more than we think. Society looks us as a starange people. but we shoud proud it.

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 12:54 pm**

j2mcgreg wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 8:42 am
linuxbobtas wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 3:54 am My wife and I are Boomers (79 and 80 yrs) and longtime Linux users. I tried to interest some other local Linux users recently in forming a "rescue a PC" service for people planning to junk their Win 7 (yep) or Win 10 computer after they'd bought the latest and shiniest Win 11 model. The rescued PC would run Linux. Well, not much interest, really, because who'd want Linux on old hardware? I've had exactly one person tell me they're thinking about Linux because they don't like the ads and spyware on Windows, but said person hasn't gone beyond thinking and probably won't.

I think that Linux for personal and general computing is and will remain a niche interest, mainly for people who want at least some control over what their digital device can do. But what's wrong with niche, piggybacking off developments in the server world where Linux rules?
Personally, I think that it is going to take a major event like One Drive crashing and burning or Microsoft forcing an annual subscription for Windows rather than the lease for the life of the machine model that we use now before we see anything close to a mass migration.

I also think Linux is mostly for rescuing old hardware. As someone who has invested thousands of hours into "learning" Linux it pains me. But I also see the other side of the coin. Windows comes preinstalled. A system without dependencies and shared libs on the application level is a lot easier to maintain.

The real pain points of Windows are opaque (and clunky) updates and included spyware. The day people give up on Windows is probably the same day they give up on macOS, Android and iOS.

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 1:11 pm**

linuxbobtas wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 3:54 am My wife and I are Boomers (79 and 80 yrs) and longtime Linux users. I tried to interest some other local Linux users recently in forming a "rescue a PC" service for people planning to junk their Win 7 (yep) or Win 10 computer after they'd bought the latest and shiniest Win 11 model. The rescued PC would run Linux. Well, not much interest, really, because who'd want Linux on old hardware? I've had exactly one person tell me they're thinking about Linux because they don't like the ads and spyware on Windows, but said person hasn't gone beyond thinking and probably won't.

I think that Linux for personal and general computing is and will remain a niche interest, mainly for people who want at least some control over what their digital device can do. But what's wrong with niche, piggybacking off developments in the server world where Linux rules?

Have to disagree here. As more and more people understand the invasive properties of Windows and MAC, I think more people will adopt Linux as a way to get clear. While slow to happen, we are seeing push back at Google and others for over reaching, and windows has become a hot bed of issues, and MS has decided that it will double down on this.

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 1:15 pm**

dreamer wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 12:54 pm
I also think Linux is mostly for rescuing old hardware. As someone who has invested thousands of hours into "learning" Linux it pains me. But I also see the other side of the coin. Windows comes preinstalled. A system without dependencies and shared libs on the application level is a lot easier to maintain.

The real pain points of Windows are opaque (and clunky) updates and included spyware. The day people give up on Windows is probably the same day they give up on macOS, Android and iOS.

I think at this time.. .many people believe Linux is "for rescuing older hardware"... however... I have been building machines for Linux for near 5 years, and as long as you keep your hardware 'sane' an inline with Linux drivers etc... a new machine is QUITE spectacular on Linux! My current daily driver is very high end (not so much video though as I dont need that.) and the machine RIPS with no issues.

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 1:26 pm**

j2mcgreg wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 8:42 am
Personally, I think that it is going to take a major event like One Drive crashing and burning or Microsoft forcing an annual subscription for Windows rather than the lease for the life of the machine model that we use now before we see anything close to a mass migration.

As someone that supports approx 250 machines, I can tell you that OneDrive has already exploded into a serious mess. Actually... better stated... MS has DECIDED to make it that! By setting up one drive to 'move all your data' to the cloud, then link back to your Documents, Desktop and Pictures... it has created the most twisted and non working mess I have ever seen 'created'.

The list of applications that this 'simple' change wreaks havoc with is too long to list, but 3/4 of the apps that people 'need' ... this entire "\user\onedrive\xxx" concept breaks!

AND MS has already decided that it wants to be a subscription model... they just havent figured out how to bring THAT concept to the mainstream yet.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/windows-12-m ... bscription
https://www.techtarget.com/searchenterp ... ly-service
https://www.stratodesk.com/windows-10-beyond-2025/

And despite users rejection of it.. and security people crying foul... MS is doubling down on Recall. Coupled with Click to Do, Semantic indexing, "auto features", Copilot, "Next Gen Office 365 writing AI" and "Helping Telemetry Technology" ... MS is all in and all set to drive $ and security right out the window!.

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 1:32 pm**

Using Linux on modern machines here as well, with RME audio hardware (mainly RME HDSPe AIO models), and the absolutely latest cutting edge software (taking into account any platform). Among my friends, Linux is seeing plenty of use on very powerful recent hardware for AI development, game development, audio and 3D graphics. From where I look at things, I've come to see it as a power user operating system more than "for old computers" :-3 ... but it is what you make of it, power user or not. And of course, it does power all of the world's fastest supercomputers, but that's different from desktop/workstation use, heh. (Also, if it's not for your use case, that's okay too. As in, when a toolchain / software environment just isn't really happening on Linux, and using it is an informed decision, then yep, better to run it on something else.)

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2025 5:49 pm**

There is not much doubt in my mind that AI in a few years will have absorbed more than 90% of what there is to know about Linux.
And I don't see who can stop it since Linux is about freedom to learn.
AI can make it's own desktop and distro, and the support for it will soon be very good and extremely fast.
And if Microsoft start making some good Linux software for some of the hardware they know all about it will be used first to their own distro that will soon be main stream.

Maybe cooperation and negotiation would be smarter than a fight.?
Or maybe it is already too late for both..

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2025 12:00 am**

Edison's quote says: "Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety-nine percent perspiration"?

And @Jakob77 says:

There is not much doubt in my mind that AI in a few years will have absorbed more than 90% of what there is to know about Linux

I would think that while AI in due course will cross the 99% knowledge barrier, it will probably take a deal longer to attain inspiration or initiative

So humans will still have their uses, hopefully for the next few years.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2025 12:08 am**

MikeR wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 8:31 am @user101
You wrote
I consider it a blessing if there were actually no updates from companies pretending to care about security while extensively spying on us
There will probably be no updates, but are you sure the spying will end?
I'm less optimistic...

Not suggesting spying will end at all, but rather the spyware on it should be 'fixed' and not a moving target as it is when updates are always being made. So many companies (not just Microsoft) are profiting massively from our data, so I don't see it ending.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2025 2:40 am**

user101 wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2025 12:08 am ........ So many companies (not just Microsoft) are profiting massively from our data, so I don't see it ending.

The only way that 'might' end is if they're forced to pay us for our data.
Don't think I'll hold my breath waiting for that to happen

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2025 2:52 am**

Jakob77 wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 5:49 pm There is not much doubt in my mind that AI in a few years will have absorbed more than 90% of what there is to know about Linux.
And I don't see who can stop it since Linux is about freedom to learn.
AI can make it's own desktop and distro, and the support for it will soon be very good and extremely fast.
And if Microsoft start making some good Linux software for some of the hardware they know all about it will be used first to their own distro that will soon be main stream.

Maybe cooperation and negotiation would be smarter than a fight.?
Or maybe it is already too late for both..

Even if AI reach evolve over the human, contents or OS user is humans. "Can't understand feel of human". Tha'ts big weakpoint of AI.
Human To Human are best method, Some artists can be survive in AI era of tomorrow. Products goal alwalys human user if changing era.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2025 7:23 am**

txm0523 wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 4:21 pm I am a Boomer. Have always loved PC's / Laptops. Have always loved building a home PC, modifying PC / Laptop components, improving perofrmance. Guess I am a " Geek by nature, Linux by choice " type of person. I do hate using smartphones for anything except making / receiving calls, sending / receiving SMS, listening to music or taking pics. I don't feel the need to buy a new cell phone each year. I don't feel the need to be on my smartphone every minute of the day either.
When I worked in healthcare, part of my job was doing lung testing, which required use of MS Win based PC. Nothing like coming in to work in the morning and seeing displayed on your PC screen that you have been automatically updated to the latest MS Win OS, which in turn, crashes the lung testing software ( as in, it's not friggin working at all ). All attempts by Tech Support people could not reset MS Win back to previous version. I have not used any MS Win device in the last 5 years. Whenever anyone has a problem with their Windows device and they ask for help, I say, " Sorry, I don't do Windows ". Then I jump into showing them Linux OS. But, most Windows users don't really care and they will pay the slave tax and buy a new PC with the latest version of Win OS. So sad. Although Linux OS is great, don't like the " End of Life " situation most distros have, which forces you to re-install Linux OS. Maybe if all Linux distributions went to a " rolling release " model, you wouldn't have to keep re-installing ( which most users won't want to do ). Just wondering.

Thanks - I'm in much the same life situation (Boomer/PC/Laptop/Linux at home - Windows at work in healthcare)

Regarding your comment about "rolling release" - I'm a recent refugee from Manjaro/Cachy/Endeavour - the thing I disliked most about those environments was systemd, hands-down - it complicates things. Breakage after a rolling-release update was getting annoying, as well. MX/antiX is my choice for now - simpler, more stable. Once I'm fully retired, I'l probably give Void a try, although I can tell that initial set-up will be a bear.

Linux "fighting back" - fugggedaboutit! The young'ns don't give a crap because it's not a cellphone (irony alert for Android/iPhone users!), and greybeards are dying off, literally. I'll just maintain peace of mind knowing that I don't need to be tied to the yoke of Windows in my golden years.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2025 8:30 am**

bradhamilton wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2025 7:23 am Once I'm fully retired, I'l probably give Void a try, although I can tell that initial set-up will be a bear.

Installing Void Linux isn't that bad. These days you can typically get away with downloading a live ISO and then using it to run void-installer. The nicest thing about Void in my opinion is how well the XBPS package manager functions and its integration into the infrastructure of a Void machine really provides a pleasant combination of power, ease-of-use, and stability. Don't forget that there's an LTS kernel package, though. It will spare you from installing a new kernel twice a week.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2025 8:44 am**

DukeComposed wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2025 8:30 am
bradhamilton wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2025 7:23 am Once I'm fully retired, I'l probably give Void a try, although I can tell that initial set-up will be a bear.
Don't forget that there's an LTS kernel package, though. It will spare you from installing a new kernel twice a week.

Thanks for the recommendation regarding Void!

I'm quite adamant about using only LTS kernels, no matter the distribution - for me, it provides stability, especially since I use laptops that are "older", and don't need the "latest and greatest".

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2025 10:09 am**

Void Linux is fun. Not much GUI tools, but it's very stable and trouble-free for a rolling release.

When I installed it years ago, they had only 1 iso with DE available for download, and it was 9 months old.

I installed that old iso image to have a fully set up Cinnamon, then installed 9 months' worth of updates without any issues.

It's still running.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2025 10:31 am**

asqwerth wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2025 10:09 am Void Linux is fun. Not much GUI tools, but it's very stable and trouble-free for a rolling release.

When I installed it years ago, they had only 1 iso with DE available for download, and it was 9 months old.

I installed that old iso image to have a fully set up Cinnamon, then installed 9 months' worth of updates without any issues.

It's still running.

I first started working with Void Linux back in June 2018 when, for fun, I figured out how to get an encrypted LUKS container running OpenZFS on root working on it. I decided to give it a serious shot in February 2024 when I set up a Void VM and gave it some big boy responsibilities on my home network. Since then I've only had trouble with it overwriting some customizations I made to dracut -- important to have when running ZFS as root -- that rendered the machine temporarily unbootable.

Void Linux also doesn't update their media as often as some other rolling release distros. I think they refresh about once a year, so one can expect to have to deal with up to 12 months of updates on a fresh install. This isn't a problem for XBPS but if it bothers you, the Void team has some excellent tools for rolling your own updated install sets. There used to be an unofficial repository of nightly builds at voidbuilds.xyz, but that site seems to have gone offline in the last 15 months.

Posted: **Sun Jun 08, 2025 7:19 pm**

Linux "fighting back" - fugggedaboutit! The young'ns don't give a crap because it's not a cellphone (irony alert for Android/iPhone users!), and greybeards are dying off, literally. I'll just maintain peace of mind knowing that I don't need to be tied to the yoke of Windows in my golden years.
[/quote]
Golden years?

I don't why it's called the golden years when it's "The Painful Years" for me.

Posted: **Sun Jun 08, 2025 7:46 pm**

I'll be 82 in a few weeks and I can see where you are coming from the 'phone' references as they cannot even eat lunch without looking at their phones.
Linux will be around long ater I am gone and get even better as windows gets worse.

Posted: **Mon Jun 09, 2025 4:48 am**

Mauser wrote: Sun Jun 08, 2025 7:19 pm Linux "fighting back" - fugggedaboutit! The young'ns don't give a crap because it's not a cellphone (irony alert for Android/iPhone users!), and greybeards are dying off, literally. I'll just maintain peace of mind knowing that I don't need to be tied to the yoke of Windows in my golden years.

Some of us - very few, I'm sorry to say - resist the urge to let technology run our lives. It's my parents who scroll through Fakebook and Tiktok at the dinner table. Mom at least has a computer (Windows) which she uses for some work stuff - and Fakebook and Tiktok. One of her hand-me-down machines is what I use, restored with Linux and more recently with a BSD I'm experimenting with. But my situation is the exception to the rule I think. Most 'nixers don't want anything to do with kids, judging us all by the kids who act like my mom - scrolling constantly on her phone and oblivious to everything else.

Posted: **Fri Jun 13, 2025 3:39 pm**

Artim wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 4:48 am
Mauser wrote: Sun Jun 08, 2025 7:19 pm Linux "fighting back" - fugggedaboutit! The young'ns don't give a crap because it's not a cellphone (irony alert for Android/iPhone users!), and greybeards are dying off, literally. I'll just maintain peace of mind knowing that I don't need to be tied to the yoke of Windows in my golden years.
Some of us - very few, I'm sorry to say - resist the urge to let technology run our lives. It's my parents who scroll through Fakebook and Tiktok at the dinner table. Mom at least has a computer (Windows) which she uses for some work stuff - and Fakebook and Tiktok. One of her hand-me-down machines is what I use, restored with Linux and more recently with a BSD I'm experimenting with. But my situation is the exception to the rule I think. Most 'nixers don't want anything to do with kids, judging us all by the kids who act like my mom - scrolling constantly on her phone and oblivious to everything else.

You misquoted me. You moved the quote I was answering to that didn't get posted correctly due to a forum error. I only wrote after "[/quote]" I only wrote "Golden years?

I don't why it's called the golden years when it's "The Painful Years" for me.

"

Posted: **Fri Jun 13, 2025 3:46 pm**

Sorry, formatting error or something

MX Linux Forum

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