MX Linux Forum

Posted: **Sun Aug 06, 2023 8:36 am**

As described in this thread ( viewtopic.php?t=76364 ) I'm not super-happy about the switch to pipewire. It usually runs fine, but if you're used to pulseaudio and have no need for pipewire's features, it might be a reasonable choice to go back to pulseaudio. Debian 12 decided to put pipewire as default. An interesting detail about that decision is that this is only the case for GNOME. Debian KDE for example will still use pulseaudio by the choice of the Debian KDE maintainers.

I read that the pulseaudio daemon gets spawned any time an application calls for audio and if it isn't running yet, so I figured that there shouldn't be much configuration to do. So I decided to just try to do the switch back to pulse and it worked flawlessly.

So in case anyone who's suffering from audio issues might find this info useful, I documented the steps I did. Be aware that all output is in German as this is my system's language.

Disclaimer: I do not know how easy/difficult it is to revert back to pipewire in case pulseaudio doesn't work for you. There is the package pipewire-setup-mx which should reinstall and reconfigure pipewire, but I did not do this.
Do this on your own risk!

1. Let's get an overview what's on the system. So we query all packages that contain "wire".

Code: Select all

$ apt list --installed | grep wire

WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts.

gstreamer1.0-pipewire/stable,now 0.3.65-3 amd64  [Installiert,automatisch]
libpipewire-0.3-0/stable,now 0.3.65-3 amd64  [Installiert,automatisch]
libpipewire-0.3-modules/stable,now 0.3.65-3 amd64  [Installiert,automatisch]
libwireplumber-0.4-0/stable,now 0.4.13-1 amd64  [Installiert,automatisch]
pipewire-alsa/stable,now 0.3.65-3 amd64  [Installiert,automatisch]
pipewire-bin/stable,now 0.3.65-3 amd64  [Installiert,automatisch]
pipewire-jack/stable,now 0.3.65-3 amd64  [Installiert,automatisch]
pipewire-pulse/stable,now 0.3.65-3 amd64  [Installiert,automatisch]
pipewire-setup-mx/mx,mx,now 23.05.10 all  [installiert]
pipewire/stable,now 0.3.65-3 amd64  [Installiert,automatisch]
wireless-regdb/stable,stable,now 2022.06.06-1 all  [installiert]
wireless-tools/stable,now 30~pre9-14 amd64  [installiert]
wireplumber/stable,now 0.4.13-1 amd64  [Installiert,automatisch]

We basically want to get rid of all except the two wireless packages that have nothing to do with pipewire.

2. After tinkering with apt --dry-run a bit I found this to be the cleanest command.

Code: Select all

$ sudo apt remove pipewire
Paketlisten werden gelesen… Fertig
Abhängigkeitsbaum wird aufgebaut… Fertig
Statusinformationen werden eingelesen… Fertig
Die folgenden Pakete wurden automatisch installiert und werden nicht mehr benötigt:
  liblc3-0 libldacbt-abr2 libpipewire-0.3-modules libspa-0.2-bluetooth libspa-0.2-jack libwireplumber-0.4-0 pipewire-bin
Verwenden Sie »sudo apt autoremove«, um sie zu entfernen.
Die folgenden zusätzlichen Pakete werden installiert:
  pulseaudio
Vorgeschlagene Pakete:
  pavumeter paprefs
Empfohlene Pakete:
  rtkit
Die folgenden Pakete werden ENTFERNT:
  gstreamer1.0-pipewire pipewire pipewire-alsa pipewire-jack pipewire-pulse pipewire-setup-mx wireplumber
Die folgenden NEUEN Pakete werden installiert:
  pulseaudio
0 aktualisiert, 1 neu installiert, 7 zu entfernen und 0 nicht aktualisiert.
Es müssen 1.174 kB an Archiven heruntergeladen werden.
Nach dieser Operation werden 5.000 kB Plattenplatz zusätzlich benutzt.
Möchten Sie fortfahren? [J/n] 
Holen:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 pulseaudio amd64 16.1+dfsg1-2+b1 [1.174 kB]
Es wurden 1.174 kB in 1 s geholt (1.969 kB/s).
(Lese Datenbank ... 345260 Dateien und Verzeichnisse sind derzeit installiert.)
Entfernen von pipewire-setup-mx (23.05.10) ...
Entfernen von gstreamer1.0-pipewire:amd64 (0.3.65-3) ...
Entfernen von wireplumber (0.4.13-1) ...
Entfernen von pipewire-alsa:amd64 (0.3.65-3) ...
Vormals nicht ausgewähltes Paket pulseaudio wird gewählt.
(Lese Datenbank ... 345126 Dateien und Verzeichnisse sind derzeit installiert.)
Vorbereitung zum Entpacken von .../pulseaudio_16.1+dfsg1-2+b1_amd64.deb ...
Entpacken von pulseaudio (16.1+dfsg1-2+b1) ...
(Lese Datenbank ... 345367 Dateien und Verzeichnisse sind derzeit installiert.)
Entfernen von pipewire-jack:amd64 (0.3.65-3) ...
dpkg: pipewire-pulse: Abhängigkeitsprobleme, wird aber wie gefordert dennoch entfernt:
 libcanberra-pulse:amd64 hängt ab von pulseaudio | pipewire-pulse; aber:
  Paket pulseaudio ist noch nicht konfiguriert.
  Paket pipewire-pulse soll entfernt werden.

Entfernen von pipewire-pulse (0.3.65-3) ...
dpkg: pipewire:amd64: Abhängigkeitsprobleme, wird aber wie gefordert dennoch entfernt:
 firefox hängt ab von pulseaudio | apulse | pipewire; aber:
  Paket pulseaudio ist noch nicht konfiguriert.
  Paket apulse ist nicht installiert.
  Paket pipewire:amd64 soll entfernt werden.

Entfernen von pipewire:amd64 (0.3.65-3) ...
pulseaudio (16.1+dfsg1-2+b1) wird eingerichtet ...
Created symlink /etc/systemd/user/default.target.wants/pulseaudio.service → /usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.service.
Created symlink /etc/systemd/user/sockets.target.wants/pulseaudio.socket → /usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.socket.
Trigger für man-db (2.11.2-2) werden verarbeitet ...
Trigger für dbus (1.14.8-2~deb12u1) werden verarbeitet ...

apt automatically recognizes what you want to do and replaces pipewire with pulseaudio. dpkg then sorts out some dependencies and apt configures needed systemd links even if you're booted with SysVinit (which I am).

3. Get rid of orphan pipewire packages with a regular autoremove.

Code: Select all

$ sudo apt autoremove
Paketlisten werden gelesen… Fertig
Abhängigkeitsbaum wird aufgebaut… Fertig
Statusinformationen werden eingelesen… Fertig
Die folgenden Pakete werden ENTFERNT:
  liblc3-0 libldacbt-abr2 libpipewire-0.3-modules libspa-0.2-bluetooth libspa-0.2-jack libwireplumber-0.4-0 pipewire-bin
0 aktualisiert, 0 neu installiert, 7 zu entfernen und 0 nicht aktualisiert.
Nach dieser Operation werden 7.477 kB Plattenplatz freigegeben.
Möchten Sie fortfahren? [J/n] 
(Lese Datenbank ... 345334 Dateien und Verzeichnisse sind derzeit installiert.)
Entfernen von libspa-0.2-bluetooth:amd64 (0.3.65-3) ...
Entfernen von liblc3-0:amd64 (1.0.1-1+b1) ...
Entfernen von libldacbt-abr2:amd64 (2.0.2.3+git20200429+ed310a0-4) ...
Entfernen von pipewire-bin (0.3.65-3) ...
Entfernen von libpipewire-0.3-modules:amd64 (0.3.65-3) ...
Entfernen von libspa-0.2-jack:amd64 (0.3.65-3) ...
Entfernen von libwireplumber-0.4-0:amd64 (0.4.13-1) ...
Trigger für man-db (2.11.2-2) werden verarbeitet ...
Trigger für libc-bin (2.36-9+deb12u1) werden verarbeitet ...

4. (optional) Check for orphan configurations and get rid of those with a purge ~c.

Code: Select all

$ apt list ~c
Auflistung… Fertig
pipewire-bin/stable,now 0.3.65-3 amd64 [Konfiguration-verbleibend]
pipewire-pulse/stable,now 0.3.65-3 amd64 [Konfiguration-verbleibend]
pipewire-setup-mx/mx,mx,now 23.05.10 all [Konfiguration-verbleibend]
pipewire/stable,now 0.3.65-3 amd64 [Konfiguration-verbleibend]
wireplumber/stable,now 0.4.13-1 amd64 [Konfiguration-verbleibend]

Code: Select all

$ sudo apt purge ~c
Paketlisten werden gelesen… Fertig
Abhängigkeitsbaum wird aufgebaut… Fertig
Statusinformationen werden eingelesen… Fertig
Die folgenden Pakete werden ENTFERNT:
  pipewire* pipewire-bin* pipewire-pulse* pipewire-setup-mx* wireplumber*
0 aktualisiert, 0 neu installiert, 5 zu entfernen und 0 nicht aktualisiert.
Nach dieser Operation werden 0 B Plattenplatz zusätzlich benutzt.
Möchten Sie fortfahren? [J/n] 
(Lese Datenbank ... 345124 Dateien und Verzeichnisse sind derzeit installiert.)
Löschen der Konfigurationsdateien von pipewire-setup-mx (23.05.10) ...
Löschen der Konfigurationsdateien von pipewire-bin (0.3.65-3) ...
Löschen der Konfigurationsdateien von wireplumber (0.4.13-1) ...
Löschen der Konfigurationsdateien von pipewire-pulse (0.3.65-3) ...
Löschen der Konfigurationsdateien von pipewire:amd64 (0.3.65-3) ...

EDIT: Performance improvements.

In step 2 apt recommends to install the package rtkit. This is a daemon that helps pulseaudio to gain a higher priority on the system to avoid cracking or other audio glitches. It will start automatically after installation.

Code: Select all

sudo apt install rtkit

DONE! Now the only thing we have left to do is reboot the system and pulseaudio will take over the audio system.

BONUS: One might notice that libpipewire-0.3-0 did not get removed.

Code: Select all

$ apt list --installed | grep wire

WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts.

libpipewire-0.3-0/stable,now 0.3.65-3 amd64  [Installiert,automatisch]
wireless-regdb/stable,stable,now 2022.06.06-1 all  [installiert]
wireless-tools/stable,now 30~pre9-14 amd64  [installiert]

That is the because apparently it's a dependency to A LOT of important other packages. DO NOT REMOVE THIS PACKAGE AS THIS WILL BREAK PARTS OF YOUR SYSTEM. It's a situation that looks a little like Linus Tech Tips' faux-pas to uninstall the desktop environment due to a dependency error in case you know about that.

ONLY RUN THIS COMMAND WITH --DRY-RUN to check its output.

Code: Select all

$ sudo apt remove libpipewire-0.3-0 --dry-run
Paketlisten werden gelesen… Fertig
Abhängigkeitsbaum wird aufgebaut… Fertig
Statusinformationen werden eingelesen… Fertig
Die folgenden Pakete wurden automatisch installiert und werden nicht mehr benötigt:
  flatpak fonts-open-sans libappstream4 libavkys9 libmalcontent-0-0 libmujs2 libostree-1-1 libqt5qmlworkerscript5 libqt5quickcontrols2-5
  libqt5quicktemplates2-5 libqt6widgets6 libqt6xml6 libsixel1 libspa-0.2-modules libstemmer0d libuvc0 libxmlb2 qml-module-qt-labs-folderlistmodel
  qml-module-qt-labs-platform qml-module-qt-labs-settings qml-module-qtgraphicaleffects qml-module-qtqml qml-module-qtqml-models2
  qml-module-qtquick-controls qml-module-qtquick-controls2 qml-module-qtquick-dialogs qml-module-qtquick-extras qml-module-qtquick-layouts
  qml-module-qtquick-privatewidgets qml-module-qtquick-templates2 qml-module-qtquick-window2 qml-module-qtquick2 socat webcamoid-data
Verwenden Sie »sudo apt autoremove«, um sie zu entfernen.
Die folgenden zusätzlichen Pakete werden installiert:
  libenca0 libvorbisidec1 mplayer
Vorgeschlagene Pakete:
  mplayer-doc
Die folgenden Pakete werden ENTFERNT:
  libpipewire-0.3-0 mpv mx-apps mx-packageinstaller mx-packageinstaller-pkglist qpwgraph smplayer smplayer-l10n smplayer-themes webcamoid
  webcamoid-plugins xdg-desktop-portal xdg-desktop-portal-gtk
Die folgenden NEUEN Pakete werden installiert:
  libenca0 libvorbisidec1 mplayer
0 aktualisiert, 3 neu installiert, 13 zu entfernen und 0 nicht aktualisiert.
Remv mx-apps [23.07.02mx23]
Remv mx-packageinstaller [23.7.02] [mx-packageinstaller-pkglist:amd64 ]
Remv mx-packageinstaller-pkglist [23.08.04mx23]
Remv xdg-desktop-portal-gtk [1.14.1-1]
Remv xdg-desktop-portal [1.16.0-2]
Remv webcamoid [9.0.0-6]
Remv webcamoid-plugins [9.0.0-6]
Remv libpipewire-0.3-0 [0.3.65-3] [mpv:amd64 qpwgraph:amd64 ]
Remv smplayer-themes [1:20.11.0-1] [smplayer:amd64 mpv:amd64 qpwgraph:amd64 ]
Remv smplayer [23.6.0-0.1~mx23+1] [mpv:amd64 qpwgraph:amd64 smplayer-l10n:amd64 ]
Remv smplayer-l10n [23.6.0-0.1~mx23+1] [mpv:amd64 qpwgraph:amd64 ]
Remv mpv [0.35.1-4] [qpwgraph:amd64 ]
Remv qpwgraph [0.3.9-1]
Inst libenca0 (1.19-1.1 Debian:12.1/stable [amd64])
Inst libvorbisidec1 (1.2.1+git20180316-7 Debian:12.1/stable [amd64])
Inst mplayer (2:1.5+svn38408-1 Debian:12.1/stable [amd64])
Conf libenca0 (1.19-1.1 Debian:12.1/stable [amd64])
Conf libvorbisidec1 (1.2.1+git20180316-7 Debian:12.1/stable [amd64])
Conf mplayer (2:1.5+svn38408-1 Debian:12.1/stable [amd64])

Posted: **Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:02 am**

Interesting. I thought virtually everyone is enamoured with pipewire and/or pulseaudio.

And I think those sorts of write-up are really helpful for people.

I had removed pulseaudio from my MX19 install without probs and when I saw that pipewire is now (ie with MX23) the "new normal" I removed that and all traces of pa as well. All my audio now runs via ALSA and everything works as well as it did with MX19 (there was a bit of bother with Bluetooth audio but not too much trouble). Having said that, I am not into much audio work... just my daily dose of music and internet radio. And of course browser stuff.

Posted: **Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:40 pm**

I just tinkered a bit with my settings and found out about the recommended package rtkit. It's a daemon that provides a way for pulseaudio to gain higher priorities to reduce cracking noises or other audio glitches during high system loads. A quick test improved the sound quality on my (rather low-end) system by a hearable bit, so I can recommend it.

I edited the first post to contain that info.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:03 am**

Thanks. I'm trying to troubleshoot a sound problem on a laptop to which I've installed all three versions of MX-23. This will be helpful. As for how to revert, I'm early enough in the process that reinstall wouldn't be the end of the world. Another option is Timeshift, which can restore a file-level snapshot. And, really, any good system backup strategy should be able to handle the task (I use manual rsync snapshots).

By the way, another way to check reverse dependencies is sudo apt rdepends libpipewire-0.3-0. Synaptic also has the information, on a dropdown under Properties > Dependencies > Dependants [sic].

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:28 am**

Thanks for this post. I'm trying to iron out a small issue I'm having with pipewire (viewtopic.php?t=76453) and may rely on this later. I've gone and bookmarked it for now.

Debian KDE for example will still use pulseaudio by the choice of the Debian KDE maintainers.

I downloaded Debian 12.1 XFCE live ISO to see how they manage pipewire but it also uses pulseaudio. Maybe just the Gnome desktop uses pipewire.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 2:30 am**

@MadMax
Many thanks for the tip with rtkit. After installation my Airpods works better with MX21xfce and reduces the cracking noises and the choppy playback significantly.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 2:24 pm**

Many thanks @MadMax for this. Just did this now on a new MX23 install. Downloaded rtkit as well.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:27 pm**

@MadMax Worked like a charm in MX-23 fluxbox with one extra step required.

MX-23_fluxbox users. This is the method I used to switch from pipewire back to pulseaudio.

Code: Select all

1. 
sudo apt remove pipewire

2. 
sudo apt autoremove

3. 
sudo apt purge ~c

4.
sudo apt install pulseaudio

5.
sudo apt install rtkit

6. 
Edit the startup file (root menu > Settings > Configure > Startup)
replace this section:

#start pipewire before volumeicon so unmute works
pipewire-start
sleep 2
volumeicon -c volumeicon-fluxbox & 


to this:

#start pulseaudio before volumeicon so unmute works
start-pulseaudio-x11 &
sleep 2
volumeicon -c volumeicon-fluxbox &

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:59 pm**

]Paying attention to this as my chromebook does not agree with pipewire but I have instructions for pulse audio and alsa to run on my chromebook.

AntiX 23 is also defaulting to using pipe wire except for base iso ( can't swear to the base part yet )

I am on my chromebook now.

Code: Select all

harry@antix1:~
$ inxi -M
Machine:
  Type: Laptop System: GOOGLE product: Candy v: 1.0
    serial: <superuser required>
  Mobo: GOOGLE model: Candy v: 1.0 serial: <superuser required>
    UEFI: coreboot v: MrChromebox-4.18.1 date: 10/27/2022
harry@antix1:~
$ inxi -SA
System:
  Host: antix1 Kernel: 5.10.153-antix.1-amd64-smp arch: x86_64 bits: 64
    Desktop: IceWM v: 3.4.1 Distro: antiX-22_x64-full Grup Yorum 18 October 2022
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Atom Processor Z36xxx/Z37xxx Series High Definition Audio
    driver: snd_hda_intel
  API: ALSA v: k5.10.153-antix.1-amd64-smp status: kernel-api
  Server-1: PulseAudio v: 14.2 status: active

I am not sure my sound fix plans will work or not on antiX 23 with different kernel, libs/configs, repos, etc......
But I do know I have to remove pipe wire and go with pulse audio to follow my borrowed sound fix instructions.
https://blog.nanax.fr/post/2018-05-01-chromebook-linux/

Posted: **Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:42 am**

It makes sense that the procedure is a bit different on different distributions. The idea always has to be to remove pipewire and then (or simulatenously in case of apt's logic) install pulseaudio. pulseaudio hasn't gone anywhere, so it should always be in the repos for most systems.

If there are are custom scripts that include pipewire, these have to be adjusted (like the aforementioned fluxbox one).

In a few years I can see this procedure getting more difficult, since pipewire will become the standard in linux audio and more programs, maybe browsers for example, will rely on it. But for the time being, we can give pipewire and its documentation more time to mature.

Posted: **Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:24 am**

Hello, thank for your report.
I too experienced "no sound" problem when I installed Enlightenment or GNOME desktop into MX-23 release.
My solution is as below. It works well here.

Code: Select all

root@mx1:/home/demo# apt install pulseaudio
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
 16.1+dfsg1-2+b1 [1,174 kB]
Fetched 1,174 kB in 0s (2,937 kB/s)
(Reading database ... 254146 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing pipewire-setup-mx (23.05.10) ...
Removing pipewire-alsa:amd64 (0.3.65-3) ...
Selecting previously unselected package pulseaudio.
(Reading database ... 254133 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../pulseaudio_16.1+dfsg1-2+b1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking pulseaudio (16.1+dfsg1-2+b1) ...
Setting up pulseaudio (16.1+dfsg1-2+b1) ...
Created symlink /etc/systemd/user/default.target.wants/pulseaudio.service → /usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.service.
Created symlink /etc/systemd/user/sockets.target.wants/pulseaudio.socket → /usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.socket.
Processing triggers for man-db (2.11.2-2) ...
Processing triggers for dbus (1.14.8-2~deb12u1) ...
root@mx1:/home/demo#

Best regards

Posted: **Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:51 am**

For anyone who might wonder:

It may be even just Alsa (bitperfect) : No Pipewire and no Pulseaudio. (I use it that way happily for years).

Only con(s): Firefox (if you prefer that as the browser) won't have sound without Pulse, also root account (in case you have to login as) needs Pulse ...

Posted: **Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:53 am**

I just tried again on GNOME. As was mentioned above, rtkit is a recommended package. I think we should install rtkit, too.

Code: Select all

root@mx1:/home/demo# apt install pulseaudio
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:
  libasound2-plugins libpulsedsp pulseaudio-utils
Suggested packages:
  pavumeter pavucontrol paprefs
Recommended packages:
  rtkit
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  gnome-core pipewire-alsa pipewire-audio
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libasound2-plugins libpulsedsp pulseaudio pulseaudio-utils
0 upgraded, 4 newly installed, 3 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 1,375 kB of archives.
After this operation, 7,217 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]

Thank you.

Posted: **Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:54 am**

Charlie Brown wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:51 am For anyone who might wonder:

It may be even just Alsa (bitperfect) : No Pipewire and no Pulseaudio. (I use it that way happily for years).

Only con(s): Firefox (if you prefer that as the browser) won't have sound without Pulse, also root account (in case you have to login as) needs Pulse ...

I think you have to install apulse and then Firefox will work (and other apps that need pulseaudio). Not sure if apulse will be enough for root account, you mentioned.

Posted: **Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:59 am**

Yes, just installing pulseaudio in one command will do the job as well. This was one of the first commands I tried with --dry-run. I just keeps most of the pipewire packages on the system, but apparently deactivates them. I preferred to remove as much of pipewire as possible to reduce the risk of conflicts later.

I also found out about the ALSA only way - did not know that this was possible before :D

Posted: **Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:14 am**

In fact the way I do is without removing, just bypassing (and then placing "Volume Icon" on panel, as the current "identical" icon belongs to Pulseaudio and will become passive): viewtopic.php?p=617712#p617712

However 1-2 times (previous threads) users felt lazy and just removed it rather than bypassing: They were happy with same results :)

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:15 pm**

Charlie Brown wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:14 am In fact the way I do is without removing, just bypassing (and then placing "Volume Icon" on panel, as the current "identical" icon belongs to Pulseaudio and will become passive): viewtopic.php?p=617712#p617712

However 1-2 times (previous threads) users felt lazy and just removed it rather than bypassing: They were happy with same results :)

Sorry to chime in so late to this thread but I'm still having problems with choppy, clipping audio artifacts in MX 23. So, are you saying that I can bypass without having to uninstall pipewire? I looked at that other thread you linked but am I suppose to run all of those commands listed on that page and reboot after each one of them? Will that fix this issue I'm having? (I saw that is an old thread for pulse). Or do I need to just revert back to pulseaudio like MadMax suggested to? I wasn't having this problem in MX 21.3, and I was afraid I would run into audio issues since a lot of other users were having them too on MX 23. What's weird is, everything seemed to work fine in live mode testing. Now when I watch YouTube, or a movie on VLC, or play music with Strawberry, I get those choppy clipping artifacts. I had this thread bookmarked as well as well as a few others regarding audio issues on MX 23 so I'm a bit confused.

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:47 pm**

BitterTruth wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:54 am
Charlie Brown wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:51 am For anyone who might wonder:

It may be even just Alsa (bitperfect) : No Pipewire and no Pulseaudio. (I use it that way happily for years).

Only con(s): Firefox (if you prefer that as the browser) won't have sound without Pulse, also root account (in case you have to login as) needs Pulse ...
I think you have to install apulse and then Firefox will work (and other apps that need pulseaudio). Not sure if apulse will be enough for root account, you mentioned.

I am also a great fan of Alsa only and have removed pulseaudio (in MX19) and pipewire/pulseaudio (in MX23).

Interestingly, my Pale Moon browser (that's an "old" Firefox code base) never made any problems and also LibreWolf audio (which is basically a modern Firefox) worked OOTB without the need to install anything else. But it's good to know that there's a PA layer for Alsa in case I run into trouble.

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:07 pm**

CyberGhost wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:15 pm... are you saying that I can bypass without having to uninstall pipewire?..

Nope, just without having to uninstall Pulseaudio.

CyberGhost wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:15 pm... Or do I need to just revert back to pulseaudio like MadMax suggested to?..

Since you say it was ok with MX-21 (that had no Pipewire, but just Alsa+ PA), first try that.

... Then in case it's still not ok, you can either remove PA or just bypass it that way: this command does that :

Code: Select all

sed 's/; autospawn = yes/autospawn = no/' < /etc/pulse/client.conf  > ~/.config/pulse/client.conf

(The others are just to explain the manual way, how to revert back also what to do in Session and Startup etc.)

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:24 pm**

Charlie Brown wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:07 pm
CyberGhost wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:15 pm... are you saying that I can bypass without having to uninstall pipewire?..
Nope, just without having to uninstall Pulseaudio.

CyberGhost wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:15 pm... Or do I need to just revert back to pulseaudio like MadMax suggested to?..
Since you say it was ok with MX-21 (that had no Pipewire, but just Alsa+ PA), first try that.

... Then in case it's still not ok, you can either remove PA or just bypass it that way: this command does that :
Code: Select all
sed 's/; autospawn = yes/autospawn = no/' < /etc/pulse/client.conf  > ~/.config/pulse/client.conf
(The others are just to explain the manual way, how to revert back also what to do in Session and Startup etc.)

Ok thank you! I'll try to revert back to pulse and alsa using MadMax's method first.

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2023 4:50 pm**

@MadMax Ok I tried your method because after installing MX 23 I was having clipping and choppy audio artifacts when watching YouTube with Chrome and Firefox, watching a movie on VLC, and listening to music on Strawberry. It sounds like when a scratched CD skips. Anyway, I applied your method, rebooted, and I'm still having the same problem. So I'm going to try and bypass pulseaudio like @Charlie Brown mentioned in this thread next. Will report back soon. If that fails, I may try an Alsa only setup or just reverting back to MX 21.3. It could also be kernel related I'm thinking as well. I do recall someone else mentioning that. Here's my QSI just in case anyone would like to inspect:

***EDIT*** I tried the bypass pulse audio solution and I'm still having the same problem. I think I'll just reinstall MX 21.3. It could be that the kernel MX 21.3 used played better with my system. I'm not sure that using a different kernel on MX 23 would be a good idea or if it would cause complications with other things.

Code: Select all

[CODE]Snapshot created on: 20230817_1038
System:
  Kernel: 6.1.0-11-amd64 [6.1.38-4] arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0
    parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1.0-11-amd64 root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet splash
    init=/lib/systemd/systemd
  Desktop: Xfce v: 4.18.1 tk: Gtk v: 3.24.36 info: xfce4-panel wm: xfwm v: 4.18.0 vt: 7
    dm: LightDM v: 1.26.0 Distro: MX-23_x64 Libretto August 17  2023 base: Debian GNU/Linux 12
    (bookworm)
Machine:
  Type: Laptop System: HP product: HP Notebook v: Type1ProductConfigId serial: <superuser required>
    Chassis: type: 10 serial: <superuser required>
  Mobo: HP model: 81FF v: 75.24 serial: <superuser required> UEFI: Insyde v: F.30
    date: 06/25/2018
Battery:
  ID-1: BAT0 charge: 15.8 Wh (91.3%) condition: 17.3/17.3 Wh (100.0%) volts: 11.9 min: 10.9
    model: 131-42-6E HS03031 type: Li-ion serial: <filter> status: not charging
CPU:
  Info: model: Intel Core i7-7500U bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Amber/Kaby Lake note: check
    gen: core 7 level: v3 note: check built: 2017 process: Intel 14nm family: 6 model-id: 0x8E (142)
    stepping: 9 microcode: 0xF4
  Topology: cpus: 1x cores: 2 tpc: 2 threads: 4 smt: enabled cache: L1: 128 KiB
    desc: d-2x32 KiB; i-2x32 KiB L2: 512 KiB desc: 2x256 KiB L3: 4 MiB desc: 1x4 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 1325 high: 2900 min/max: 400/3500 scaling: driver: intel_pstate
    governor: powersave cores: 1: 800 2: 800 3: 2900 4: 800 bogomips: 23199
  Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3
  Vulnerabilities:
  Type: gather_data_sampling mitigation: Microcode
  Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: VMX unsupported
  Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion
  Type: mds mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable
  Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI
  Type: mmio_stale_data mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable
  Type: retbleed mitigation: IBRS
  Type: spec_rstack_overflow status: Not affected
  Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl
  Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
  Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: IBRS, IBPB: conditional, STIBP: conditional, RSB filling,
    PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected
  Type: srbds mitigation: Microcode
  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel HD Graphics 620 vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: i915 v: kernel arch: Gen-9.5
    process: Intel 14nm built: 2016-20 ports: active: HDMI-A-1,eDP-1 empty: none bus-ID: 00:02.0
    chip-ID: 8086:5916 class-ID: 0300
  Device-2: Microdia HP Webcam type: USB driver: uvcvideo bus-ID: 1-7:3 chip-ID: 0c45:651b
    class-ID: 0e02 serial: <filter>
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 compositor: xfwm v: 4.18.0 driver: X:
    loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: iris gpu: i915 display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1280x800 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 339x212mm (13.35x8.35") s-diag: 400mm (15.74")
  Monitor-1: HDMI-A-1 mapped: HDMI-1 model: LEDTV built: 2016 res: 1280x800 hz: 60 dpi: 28
    gamma: 1.2 size: 1150x650mm (45.28x25.59") diag: 1321mm (52") ratio: 16:9 modes: max: 1366x768
    min: 720x400
  Monitor-2: eDP-1 pos: primary model: AU Optronics 0x229e built: 2015 res: 1280x800 hz: 60
    dpi: 85 gamma: 1.2 size: 382x214mm (15.04x8.43") diag: 438mm (17.2") ratio: 16:9 modes: 1600x900
  API: OpenGL v: 4.6 Mesa 22.3.6 renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 620 (KBL GT2)
    direct-render: Yes
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Sunrise Point-LP HD Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel
    alternate: snd_soc_skl,snd_sof_pci_intel_skl bus-ID: 00:1f.3 chip-ID: 8086:9d71 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api with: apulse type: pulse-emulator
    tools: alsamixer,amixer
  Server-1: PulseAudio v: 16.1 status: active tools: pacat,pactl,pavucontrol
Network:
  Device-1: Realtek RTL810xE PCI Express Fast Ethernet vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: r8169
    v: kernel pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: 4000 bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10ec:8136
    class-ID: 0200
  IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
  Device-2: Realtek RTL8188EE Wireless Network Adapter vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: rtl8188ee
    v: kernel modules: wl pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: 3000 bus-ID: 02:00.0
    chip-ID: 10ec:8179 class-ID: 0280
  IF: wlan0 state: down mac: <filter>
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 931.51 GiB used: 72.76 GiB (7.8%)
  SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
  ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Toshiba model: MQ01ABD100 size: 931.51 GiB block-size:
    physical: 4096 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: HDD rpm: 5400 serial: <filter> rev: 4C
    scheme: GPT
Partition:
  ID-1: / raw-size: 931.26 GiB size: 915.57 GiB (98.31%) used: 72.76 GiB (7.9%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/sda2 maj-min: 8:2
  ID-2: /boot/efi raw-size: 256 MiB size: 252 MiB (98.46%) used: 274 KiB (0.1%) fs: vfat
    dev: /dev/sda1 maj-min: 8:1
Swap:
  Kernel: swappiness: 15 (default 60) cache-pressure: 100 (default)
  ID-1: swap-1 type: file size: 3 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2 file: /swap/swap
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 39.0 C pch: 34.0 C mobo: N/A
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
Repos:
  Packages: 2034 pm: dpkg pkgs: 2029 libs: 1006 tools: apt,apt-get,aptitude,nala,synaptic pm: rpm
    pkgs: 0 pm: flatpak pkgs: 5
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
    2: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64] https://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list
    1: deb http://mirrors.rit.edu/mxlinux/mx-packages/mx/repo/ bookworm main non-free
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/nordvpn.list
    1: deb https://repo.nordvpn.com/deb/nordvpn/debian stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/spotify.list
    1: deb http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free
Info:
  Processes: 203 Uptime: 1h 13m wakeups: 1 Memory: 7.63 GiB used: 2 GiB (26.2%) Init: systemd
  v: 252 target: graphical (5) default: graphical tool: systemctl Compilers: gcc: 12
  Client: shell wrapper v: 5.2.15-release inxi: 3.3.26
Boot Mode: UEFI

[/code]

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:41 pm**

OK I'm sure my QSi has changed a bit since I've been tinkering around a bit. I ended up removing all pulse audio and pipewire. Then had no sound. So I reinstalled pipewire and pulse audio. I have sound again. I still have the same sound clipping artifacts. Plus, now when the audio does that, it's making the video do the same thing. Almost like it's repeating itself for a brief second. Maybe I messed something up with my tinkering. I guess I'll just reinstall MX 21.3 in the morning. Hopefully the sound and video will be fine after that. Really sux though because everything else is working fine with MX 23 and I have everything configured and setup the way I want it. I don't understand why the move to pipewire by the Debian devs in the first place? I'm not opposed to change but it doesn't seem as though it was thoroughly tested. If everything was working fine before then why change it? It's like the old adage goes, "If it ain't broke, then don't (try to or why) fix it." Posting QSI again:

Code: Select all

[CODE]Snapshot created on: 20230817_1038
System:
  Kernel: 6.1.0-11-amd64 [6.1.38-4] arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0
    parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1.0-11-amd64 root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet splash
    init=/lib/systemd/systemd
  Desktop: Xfce v: 4.18.1 tk: Gtk v: 3.24.36 info: xfce4-panel wm: xfwm v: 4.18.0 vt: 7
    dm: LightDM v: 1.26.0 Distro: MX-23_x64 Libretto August 17  2023 base: Debian GNU/Linux 12
    (bookworm)
Machine:
  Type: Laptop System: HP product: HP Notebook v: Type1ProductConfigId serial: <superuser required>
    Chassis: type: 10 serial: <superuser required>
  Mobo: HP model: 81FF v: 75.24 serial: <superuser required> UEFI: Insyde v: F.30
    date: 06/25/2018
Battery:
  ID-1: BAT0 charge: 15.9 Wh (91.4%) condition: 17.4/17.4 Wh (100.0%) volts: 11.9 min: 10.9
    model: 131-42-6E HS03031 type: Li-ion serial: <filter> status: not charging
CPU:
  Info: model: Intel Core i7-7500U bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Amber/Kaby Lake note: check
    gen: core 7 level: v3 note: check built: 2017 process: Intel 14nm family: 6 model-id: 0x8E (142)
    stepping: 9 microcode: 0xF4
  Topology: cpus: 1x cores: 2 tpc: 2 threads: 4 smt: enabled cache: L1: 128 KiB
    desc: d-2x32 KiB; i-2x32 KiB L2: 512 KiB desc: 2x256 KiB L3: 4 MiB desc: 1x4 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 800 min/max: 400/3500 scaling: driver: intel_pstate governor: powersave
    cores: 1: 800 2: 800 3: 800 4: 800 bogomips: 23199
  Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3
  Vulnerabilities:
  Type: gather_data_sampling mitigation: Microcode
  Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: VMX unsupported
  Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion
  Type: mds mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable
  Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI
  Type: mmio_stale_data mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable
  Type: retbleed mitigation: IBRS
  Type: spec_rstack_overflow status: Not affected
  Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl
  Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
  Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: IBRS, IBPB: conditional, STIBP: conditional, RSB filling,
    PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected
  Type: srbds mitigation: Microcode
  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel HD Graphics 620 vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: i915 v: kernel arch: Gen-9.5
    process: Intel 14nm built: 2016-20 ports: active: HDMI-A-1,eDP-1 empty: none bus-ID: 00:02.0
    chip-ID: 8086:5916 class-ID: 0300
  Device-2: Microdia HP Webcam type: USB driver: uvcvideo bus-ID: 1-7:3 chip-ID: 0c45:651b
    class-ID: 0e02 serial: <filter>
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 compositor: xfwm v: 4.18.0 driver: X:
    loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: iris gpu: i915 display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1280x800 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 339x212mm (13.35x8.35") s-diag: 400mm (15.74")
  Monitor-1: HDMI-A-1 mapped: HDMI-1 model: LEDTV built: 2016 res: 1280x800 hz: 60 dpi: 28
    gamma: 1.2 size: 1150x650mm (45.28x25.59") diag: 1321mm (52") ratio: 16:9 modes: max: 1366x768
    min: 720x400
  Monitor-2: eDP-1 pos: primary model: AU Optronics 0x229e built: 2015 res: 1280x800 hz: 60
    dpi: 85 gamma: 1.2 size: 382x214mm (15.04x8.43") diag: 438mm (17.2") ratio: 16:9 modes: 1600x900
  API: OpenGL v: 4.6 Mesa 22.3.6 renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 620 (KBL GT2)
    direct-render: Yes
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Sunrise Point-LP HD Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel
    alternate: snd_soc_skl,snd_sof_pci_intel_skl bus-ID: 00:1f.3 chip-ID: 8086:9d71 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api with: apulse type: pulse-emulator
    tools: alsamixer,amixer
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.65 status: active with: 1: pipewire-pulse status: active
    2: wireplumber status: active tools: pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl
  Server-2: PulseAudio v: 16.1 status: off (using pipewire-pulse) tools: pacat,pactl,pavucontrol
Network:
  Device-1: Realtek RTL810xE PCI Express Fast Ethernet vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: r8169
    v: kernel pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: 4000 bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10ec:8136
    class-ID: 0200
  IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
  Device-2: Realtek RTL8188EE Wireless Network Adapter vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: rtl8188ee
    v: kernel modules: wl pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: 3000 bus-ID: 02:00.0
    chip-ID: 10ec:8179 class-ID: 0280
  IF: wlan0 state: down mac: <filter>
  IF-ID-1: nordlynx state: unknown speed: N/A duplex: N/A mac: N/A
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 946.04 GiB used: 74.77 GiB (7.9%)
  SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
  ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Toshiba model: MQ01ABD100 size: 931.51 GiB block-size:
    physical: 4096 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: HDD rpm: 5400 serial: <filter> rev: 4C
    scheme: GPT
  ID-2: /dev/sdb maj-min: 8:16 type: USB vendor: SanDisk model: Cruzer Glide size: 14.53 GiB
    block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B type: N/A serial: <filter> rev: 1.00 scheme: MBR
  SMART Message: Unknown USB bridge. Flash drive/Unsupported enclosure?
Partition:
  ID-1: / raw-size: 931.26 GiB size: 915.57 GiB (98.31%) used: 74.77 GiB (8.2%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/sda2 maj-min: 8:2
  ID-2: /boot/efi raw-size: 256 MiB size: 252 MiB (98.46%) used: 274 KiB (0.1%) fs: vfat
    dev: /dev/sda1 maj-min: 8:1
Swap:
  Kernel: swappiness: 15 (default 60) cache-pressure: 100 (default)
  ID-1: swap-1 type: file size: 3 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2 file: /swap/swap
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 43.0 C pch: 36.5 C mobo: N/A
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
Repos:
  Packages: 2042 pm: dpkg pkgs: 2037 libs: 1009 tools: apt,apt-get,aptitude,nala,synaptic pm: rpm
    pkgs: 0 pm: flatpak pkgs: 5
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
    2: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64] https://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list
    1: deb http://mirrors.rit.edu/mxlinux/mx-packages/mx/repo/ bookworm main non-free
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/nordvpn.list
    1: deb https://repo.nordvpn.com/deb/nordvpn/debian stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/spotify.list
    1: deb http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free
Info:
  Processes: 229 Uptime: 50m wakeups: 1 Memory: 7.63 GiB used: 3.15 GiB (41.3%) Init: systemd
  v: 252 target: graphical (5) default: graphical tool: systemctl Compilers: gcc: 12
  Client: shell wrapper v: 5.2.15-release inxi: 3.3.26
Boot Mode: UEFI

[/code]

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:34 am**

Did you install rtkit? Choppy audio sounds like the typical performance problem that comes from the soundsystem not being able to gain higher CPU priority.

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:37 am**

I was just going to ask that. In the meantime I saw it was installed by itself a few days ago, that's why I didn't.

It may also be kernel related, nothing to lose to install antiX 5.10 with 2 clicks, then boot with (via "Advanced Options" on Grub).. if still not: open alsamixer and play with the bars ...

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:13 am**

Does rtkit help, or work in pulse audio?
I installed it recently in MX-21 Xfce just to see if it would stop clicking in a receiver when I connect to the laptop but I have really used it yet.
Cheers.

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:18 am**

@CyberGhost You may also want to try a liquorix kernel, they have less "lag" and are built for speed over power savings. I have found all versions to be better on my machines. (6.2.14 and 6.4.9 are very nice and may help with this too.

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 12:59 pm**

Charlie Brown wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:37 am... saw it was installed by itself a few days ago ...

More precisely: "by itself" I mean during updates (not by me) , and from zero:

2023-08-10 23:22:19 install rtkit:amd64 <none> 0.13-5

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 3:51 pm**

MadMax wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:34 am Did you install rtkit? Choppy audio sounds like the typical performance problem that comes from the soundsystem not being able to gain higher CPU priority.

Yes I installed rtkit per your suggestion. Still same problem.

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 3:53 pm**

CharlesV wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:18 am @CyberGhost You may also want to try a liquorix kernel, they have less "lag" and are built for speed over power savings. I have found all versions to be better on my machines. (6.2.14 and 6.4.9 are very nice and may help with this too.

Yes but aren't those kernels for newer machines? My HP laptop was made probably back in 2017 or so.

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 3:55 pm**

Charlie Brown wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:37 am I was just going to ask that. In the meantime I saw it was installed by itself a few days ago, that's why I didn't.

It may also be kernel related, nothing to lose to install antiX 5.10 with 2 clicks, then boot with (via "Advanced Options" on Grub).. if still not: open alsamixer and play with the bars ...

Yeah I thought about doing that next. I'm probably going to try that now. If that doesn't work I may try the liquorix kernels.

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 4:08 pm**

CyberGhost wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 3:53 pm
CharlesV wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:18 am @CyberGhost You may also want to try a liquorix kernel, they have less "lag" and are built for speed over power savings. I have found all versions to be better on my machines. (6.2.14 and 6.4.9 are very nice and may help with this too.
Yes but aren't those kernels for newer machines? My HP laptop was made probably back in 2017 or so.

There is a point where the latest and greatest will require a little more work, and yes it can get to where they are not "really" supported well...

However, my oldest test machine ( HP Pavilion dv7 Notebook PC 2009 with 2011 firmware) runs REALLY well on 6.2.14. ( interestingly, I had a lot of trouble in mx21 on the 6.1 non liquorix version your currently running.)

And I have 6.2.14 on A BUNCH of machines (test and in use ) and ALL of them have been stellar !

Moving past that kernel, I have seen issues with deprecated or included dkms support for something etc... ( 6.4 and many Realtek adapters as an example.) But, in every case I have seen, just removing the installed package and letting the kernel handle it has worked for me.

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 4:22 pm**

@CharlesV Ok thanks! I don't see the 6.2.14 liquorix kernel in MXPI. Maybe I should be looking in the Enabled Repos? Or I could look via apt aptitude or whatever that CLI command is to see kernels? I do see the 6.4.9 kernel though.

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:52 pm**

@CharlesV Ok I got it working now! That was the problem! It was a kernel issue! I'm now running the 6.4.9 liquorix kernel and everything is running great! Video and audio now fixed! However, I am going to go ahead and reinstall MX 23 onto my laptop again from the snapshot I made with my new testing desktop computer I acquired. Well it's not new but it works lol. Then, after installation, I'll install the 6.4.9 liquorix kernel and select it in Boot Options so it will run every time. I've done did too much tinkering with this system that it would just make me feel better to have a clean install to work from. At least I know what the problem is now and the solution for it. Thanks everyone for being so patient and helping me resolve this matter!

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:56 pm**

CyberGhost wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:52 pm @CharlesV Ok I got it working now! That was the problem! It was a kernel issue! I'm now running the 6.4.9 liquorix kernel and everything is running great! Video and audio now fixed! However, I am going to go ahead and reinstall MX 23 onto my laptop again from the snapshot I made with my new testing desktop computer I acquired. Well it's not new but it works lol. Then, after installation, I'll install the 6.4.9 liquorix kernel and select it in Boot Options so it will run every time. I've done did too much tinkering with this system that it would just make me feel better to have a clean install to work from. At least I know what the problem is now and the solution for it. Thanks everyone for being so patient and helping me resolve this matter!

Excellent! Glad to hear it is working!!

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:29 pm**

CyberGhost wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:52 pm... and select it in Boot Options so it will run every time...

Glad to hear it's ok now :)

But you don't need to do that, as it'll already become the default once you install (since it'll be the highest numbered one) :)

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 7:55 pm**

Charlie Brown wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:29 pm
CyberGhost wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:52 pm... and select it in Boot Options so it will run every time...
Glad to hear it's ok now :)

But you don't need to do that, as it'll already become the default once you install (since it'll be the highest numbered one) :)

Yes I see that now thanks!

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 8:17 pm**

You can even remove the 6.1 kernel(s) (if you like only) when booted with the current 6.4 , simply with "MX Cleanup" or MXPI (as it'll go on auto-upgrading ("dot" releases) just for nothing when you don't use, and take most of the upgrade time/process)

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:34 pm**

Charlie Brown wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 8:17 pm You can even remove the 6.1 kernel(s) (if you like only) when booted with the current 6.4 , simply with "MX Cleanup" or MXPI (as it'll go on auto-upgrading ("dot" releases) just for nothing when you don't use, and take most of the upgrade time/process)

I'm aware of that and I was planning on doing just that tonight. Thanks!

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:05 pm**

Down the road there might be newer audio standards coming but I do hope the people developing such audio standards do it in a way that doesn't need to be forced on distros. Hopefully Pipewire can address the shortcomings of PA to make it arguably a better standard.

Posted: **Sun Aug 20, 2023 3:49 am**

I always like to keep at least one older known good kernel around just in case something goes wrong with a newer kernel. Also it's very easy to just try out something by switching to an old kernel instead of reinstalling it :)

@DeepDayze Well, Pipewire will be the de facto new standard for Linux audio. But I also hope that PulseAudio's development will still continue. It's a little like with systemd as init system and (that's still in the future) Wayland instead of Xorg as window system.

Posted: **Wed Sep 20, 2023 3:09 pm**

I just wanted to say it's been a complete disappointment in my case (Consequently: the results may be depending on hardware):

Removed Pipewire, yes it auto installed Pulseaudio => Dummy output (no speakers)

Then tried "bitperfect", as I used to do on previous MXs, bypassed Pulseaudio => Same: no sound.

Then decided to remove Pulseaudio => it said it'll install Pipewire (automatically) (Grrr, I hate being forced like that: "fait accompli" )

Then installed back them all: Pipewire and Wireplumber => Sound is back.

(Yes, of course I played with Alsamixer etc.. and tried everything when it showed Dummy output.. Btw. on Alsamixer and also on Volume icon everything looked normal, bars etc. as if there was sound... Consequently: Pipewire (sadly) seems to be kind of "hardcoded")

Posted: **Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:57 pm**

That is sad to hear. The more I read about pipewire the more it sounds like it really isnt quite ready for 'all' the variations of machines.

I have so little time with it that it is all still very new to me. The one laptop I was hoping it would fix sound issues it didnt, but otherwise has been perfect on three machines. ( limited use though.)

Posted: **Wed Sep 20, 2023 5:21 pm**

AVLinux has tested the latest pipewire in the MX 21/23 test repo, and says it resolves the nagging issues that the stock and now dated pipewires have in even Bookworm.

Posted: **Wed Sep 20, 2023 7:50 pm**

I've tested pipewire 0.3.79 on my dual desktop (mx-23 xfce with fluxbox 1.3.7+git) and the volume still drops to default (40) when switching between the two in systemd. It's perfectly fine when booted to sys-v.

Posted: **Wed Sep 20, 2023 8:25 pm**

In the meantime, Pipewire works on that laptop, no problem with the sound. The disappointment was just with the trial of removing it. :)

Posted: **Wed Sep 20, 2023 8:49 pm**

Hi,

To be clear the issues I've been testing and had concerns about are mostly related to the pipewire-jack implementation and issues with low-latency recording. I'm kind of being dragged kicking and screaming (and swearing) into the inevitability of Pipewire but so far testing it on my dev box it's not too bad. I'm hoping to get a GUI together to make use of controlling PipeWire sample rates and buffers with it's 'pw-metadata' functionality as greater detailed here:

https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=25768

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:12 am**

Thank you so much for this tutorial, which has enabled me to get my audio management back on track, and thus keep the few hairs I have left.

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 11:04 am**

Charlie Brown wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:51 am For anyone who might wonder:

It may be even just Alsa (bitperfect) : No Pipewire and no Pulseaudio. (I use it that way happily for years).

Only con(s): Firefox (if you prefer that as the browser) won't have sound without Pulse, also root account (in case you have to login as) needs Pulse ...

It is a good solution too ... I used this way in the past.

MX Linux Forum

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