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Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:19 am
by Jerry3904
I'm starting this thread for my request for help as I go along. Questions, image requests, proofreading.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:21 am
by Jerry3904
I just tried running Netflix in the current Opera-stable and it works fine--it's a Chrome derivative, so it should, just didn't realize it.

Do any (all?) of the Firefox derivatives run Netflix? Thanks.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:35 am
by dolphin_oracle
Jerry3904 wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:21 am I just tried running Netflix in the current Opera-stable and it works fine--it's a Chrome derivative, so it should, just didn't realize it.

Do any (all?) of the Firefox derivatives run Netflix? Thanks.
I don't know about palemoon (I doubt it actually) but any firefox that can use the Widevine drm module should be able to.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:21 pm
by fehlix
Jerry3904 wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:21 am I just tried running Netflix in the current Opera-stable and it works fine--it's a Chrome derivative, so it should, just didn't realize it.

Do any (all?) of the Firefox derivatives run Netflix? Thanks.
Drm encryption by widevine, which I think Netflix and Amazon prime is using, is not supported by Pale Moon.
A good quick Big Buck Bunny check for drm-support e.g. here https://demo.castlabs.com/.
EDIT:
Reference "Pale Moon future roadmap" http://www.palemoon.org/roadmap.shtml
Pale Moon future roadmap wrote:... we do not intend to have DRM in Pale Moon's core program, unlike other applications that build on UXP, and the browser will as such remain properly DRM-free.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:31 pm
by Jerry3904
I got a message that the md5/sha check methods in W7 and W8 no longer work in W10. I looked around the web, and that appears to be true.

Can someone please check to see if this app works in W10:

https://download.cnet.com/MD5-SHA-Check ... 11445.html

If not, then I am on the hunt. Not just a question for the Manual, but also for our directions on the website.

TIA

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:55 pm
by Eadwine Rose
I'll go and take a looksee.. be back in a bit to report.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:04 pm
by Eadwine Rose
Confirmed working. Does install .Net Framework 3.5 (which includes 2.0 and 3.0)

As in: it will install that first and then you can run the installer again.
checksum.png

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:05 pm
by Eadwine Rose

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:55 pm
by fehlix
Jerry3904 wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:31 pm I got a message that the md5/sha check methods in W7 and W8 no longer work in W10. I looked around the web, and that appears to be true.

Can someone please check to see if this app works in W10:

https://download.cnet.com/MD5-SHA-Check ... 11445.html

If not, then I am on the hunt. Not just a question for the Manual, but also for our directions on the website.

TIA
On Windows 10 you would just do it this way:
Open PowerShell within the folder of the downloaded ISO
and type:

Code: Select all

Get-FileHash .\MX-19beta-1_x64.iso -Algorithm MD5
to see the calculated MD5SUM

Code: Select all

Algorithm       Hash                                                                   Path
---------       ----                                                                   ----
MD5             E4E63DAC86674A47053152A396216B70                                       C:\ISO\MX-19beta-1_x64.iso
or type:

Code: Select all

Get-FileHash .\MX-19beta-1_x64.iso -Algorithm sha256
or just

Code: Select all

Get-FileHash .\MX-19beta-1_x64.iso
to get SHA256SUM

Code: Select all

Algorithm       Hash                                                                   Path
---------       ----                                                                   ----
SHA256          5D957194310F094299610881D6FD7DD5ABCF0FF86304EA4ED44110D564DD065F       C:\ISO\MX-19beta-1_x64.iso
So would not recommend any 3rd party tools just to verify the checksum on Win10.

EDIT:
And perhaps to "cat" the downloaded md5/sha256-sum files do this:

Code: Select all

Get-Content .\MX-19beta-1_x64.iso.md5
e4e63dac86674a47053152a396216b70  MX-19beta-1_x64.iso

Get-Content .\MX-19beta-1_x64.iso.sha256
5d957194310f094299610881d6fd7dd5abcf0ff86304ea4ed44110d564dd065f  MX-19beta-1_x64.iso
:puppy:

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:03 pm
by Eadwine Rose
When you tell me to do that I will go: where is this powershell program?


I wager many Windows users with me ;)

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:06 pm
by fehlix
Eadwine Rose wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:03 pm When you tell me to do that I will go: where is this powershell program?


I wager many Windows users with me ;)
The easiest to open PowerShell in Win10:
Press Shift and right-click on the Menu-Icon (aka Win-Start button), and you see a menu:
EDIT: Perhaps just simple right-click might be sufficient to see the right-click menu. :footinmouth:
PowerShell.png
EDIT:
Or click within Win-"Filemanager" (aka "File Explorer") into the location bar and type powershell and [Enter] to open powershell within the current folder, e.g. within the folder of the downloaded iso.
:puppy:

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:09 pm
by Jerry3904
ER: did you try that program for me?

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:10 pm
by Eadwine Rose
My point was basically: folks in Windows will not like it.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:10 pm
by Eadwine Rose
Jerry3904 wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:09 pm ER: did you try that program for me?
Yes, I already posted my reply right after. Post 7 and 8.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:11 pm
by Gordon Cooper
I can do some proof reading for you Jerry. Nearly finished the archiving project, only another cou0ple of thousand pages to go.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:13 pm
by Jerry3904
Eadwine Rose wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:10 pm
Jerry3904 wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:09 pm ER: did you try that program for me?
Yes, I already posted my reply right after. Post 7 and 8.
Totally missed that, sorry. I like it and will include it with the powershell option.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:14 pm
by Jerry3904
Gordon Cooper wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:11 pm I can do some proof reading for you Jerry. Nearly finished the archiving project, only another cou0ple of thousand pages to go.
Let me know when you're ready. The Master Document is all screwed up so I am ignoring it for now.

Do you have the Beta 1 installed? If not why not hold off and install the Beta 2 at the end of the week.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:16 pm
by Eadwine Rose
Jerry3904 wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:13 pm
Eadwine Rose wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:10 pm Yes, I already posted my reply right after. Post 7 and 8.
Totally missed that, sorry. I like it and will include it with the powershell option.
Can't hurt indeed to include both options.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:22 pm
by Jerry3904
@fehlix: thanks. I saw that when I was snooping around the web but, since my W10 dual boot is screwed up atm, I couldn't test it.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:26 pm
by Gordon Cooper
No, have not installed Beta 1, have been many hours a day on the other project. Will pick up B 2 when it appears. If the Master doc is in Github, can get it from there.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:28 pm
by Jerry3904
Not sure that it is worth it until I clean that repo up (later).

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:19 pm
by dreamer
Rufus is a better option for hash-checking ISOs. It's open source and you need it anyway to transfer the ISO to USB.

Just load the ISO into Rufus and click the check mark next to it. It will calculate MD5, SHA1 and SHA256 hashes for the ISO. Tested with Rufus 3.6.
:puppy:

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:24 pm
by Jerry3904
Thanks!

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:54 am
by stroudmw
Jerry3904 wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:21 am I just tried running Netflix in the current Opera-stable and it works fine--it's a Chrome derivative, so it should, just didn't realize it.

Do any (all?) of the Firefox derivatives run Netflix? Thanks.
I've just tried running Netflix under Opera and I get Error Code: O7701-1003 Missing Component.
I've checked under chrome://components and I've got:

MEI Preload - Version: 1.0.5.0
Subresource Filter Rules - Version: 9.6
CRLSet - Version: 5512

Do you have any idea how I can fix this?
MX-19 (64) and Opera 64.0.3417.92

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:57 am
by Jerry3904
Not fixable AFAIK; I spent quite a while trying when doing the Manual since Opera is my browser and, being based on Chrome, it ought to work. You can see the long discussion of this with a web search on "opera netflix" where the suggestion is that this is set on the Netflix side.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:10 am
by Huckleberry Finn
dreamer wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:19 pm Rufus is a better option for hash-checking ISOs. It's open source and you need it anyway to transfer the ISO to USB.

Just load the ISO into Rufus and click the check mark next to it. It will calculate MD5, SHA1 and SHA256 hashes for the ISO. Tested with Rufus 3.6.
:puppy:
That's a useful info. In fact, Rufus is the best thing about Windows (to me at least).

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:44 am
by Jerry3904
Strangely enough, that's what is in the Manual and on the website.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:22 am
by Spartak77
I just finished translating the MX 19 manual into Italian. While I was getting on with my work, I marked things that didn't seem right to me. This is the list.
They are almost always small imperfections, most of them are Links that no longer work

1) In 2.4.2 “The standard opening screen”, under Figure 2-5: “LiveMedium boot screen of x64 ISO”
it is written:
….Detailed Help on this screen can be found in this document.
The link doesn’t work
------------------------------------
2) Below just a hint:
In 2.5 The Installation process → 2.5.1 Detailed installation steps
under “Figure 2-15: SMART warning of risk of failure” →paragraph: “Auto-install using entire disk”
it is written:
If the Installer detects multiple partitions, the default option will be presented to allow you to select the partition into which you want to make the installation.
Yes, it is correct, but for a newbie it seems to me not clear enough, maybe might be better to write something like this:

Note. By default, the installer presents the choice "Automatic installation using the entire disk" if it detects a single partition, if it detects multiple partitions it will be presented as the default option: "Custom installation on existing partitions" to allow you to select the partition into which you want to make the installation.
-----------------------------
3) This is important:
In “2.6.4
Locking up” under “Figure 1-2: The MX and antiX bug manager”
section appears:
“1.6 Migration”
and then the sections:
“1.7 Our positions” and “1.8 Notes for Translators”
they're in the wrong place, they should be at the end of the first chapter

-----------------------------------------------------
4) In 3.2.3  ”Deprecated Tools”
should be:

3.2.24 Deprecated Tools

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5) In 3.2.9 Live-usb Maker → HELP: here. ( under Figure 3-14: Live USB Maker)
the link doesn't work. The correct link is https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/hel ... usb-maker/
--------------------------------------
6) In 3.2.10 Menu Editor → the link to the video“MX Menu Editor”, doesn’t work.
The correct link is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i84HR-Xss2Q
-------------------------
7) In 3.2.12  Nvidia driver installer → the link to “HELP: here”, under Figure 3-17, doesn’t work.
---------------------------
8) In 3.2.15 Sound Card → the link to HELP: here, under Figure 3-20, doesn’t work.
The correct link is: https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/help-mx-sound-card/

------------------------
9) In 3.3.2 Graphic drivers
it is written:
◦ Some Nvidia cards are no longer supported in Debian Stable (“Jessie”)
Jessie is old old stable. It should be:
◦ Some Nvidia cards are no longer supported in Debian Stable (“Buster”)

------
10) In 3.3.2 Graphic drivers
it is written:
Here are driver websites for the three most popular brands (do a web search on “<brandname> linux driver” for others):
◦ Nvidia
◦ Intel
They aren’t 3 popular brands, but 2
----------------------
11) Below just a hint:
In 3.3.4
 Dual monitors
it is written:
Finer control of some features is sometimes available with xrandr.
Yes,but I realized that MX tweak, in MX 19, has added an extra tab:"Display" with a GUI for xrandr, so maybe you could fix it with something like that:

Finer control of some features is sometimes available with MX tweak, Display tab. Other useful tools in MX are arandr and lxrandr.

I also realized that the same problem is present here:
3.3.1 Resolution
Click Start Menu > Settings > Display. Use the pull-down menus to set the correct values for the monitor you want to adjust. For more options and finer control, install xrandr from the repos.
No need to install xrandr being present in MX tweak: it is installed by default.
so the sentence:
“For more options and finer control, install xrandr from the repos.”
might be corrected with something like this:

For more options and finer control, go to MX Tweak, display tab, or use the lxrandr or arandr tools
--------------------
12) Here I don’t report any errors but only my opinion:

I would join the paragraphs
3.4.3 Mobile Broadband and 3.4.4 Tethering
in one paragraph:
3.4.3 Mobile Broadband and Tethering
then divided into a first section:Mobile Broadband
and a second section: Tethering
so that the Troubleshooting section is better understood that it refers to both cases
------
13) In 4.8 Good practices -> 4.8.1 Backup -> List of installed program packages
it is written:
A list of programs you installed via the apt system will appear that you can copy and paste into a document for storage and reference.
You can create an inventory of all packages on your system installed since installation by copying this long command and running it in a terminal.
The link in "copying this long command" doesn’t work
---------------
14) In 4.8.2 Disk maintenance
under Figure 4-16
it is written:
After it had been cleaned using MX User Manager, the percentage dropped to about 63% and the sluggishness was gone.
In this sentence, MX User Manager should be replaced with MX Cleanup
-----------------
15) In 5.5.2 Deb packages -> Installing *.deb files with dpkg
2. Right-click an empty space to open a terminal and become root. Alternatively, click the arrow to move up one level and right-click the folder with the deb package > Open Thunar here.
deb package > Open Thunar here uhmm, that's not correct, you probably meant:
deb package > Open terminal here
---------------------------------
16) In 6.3 Alternate Window Managers
Budgie Desktop, a simple and elegant desktop using GTK+
the link Budgie Desktop doesn’t work
• KDE5 Standard, a very large and powerful environment adapted to the MX Linux environment. See the MX/antiX Wiki.
the link doesn’t work

-----------------------------------------
17) In 6.5.2 A useful script ->
Anyone who wanted to use such a script would have to carry out a few execution steps:
5. Change any names, locations, etc. to what they are on your particular system. In the example above, you may well have different names and/or locations for the directories to be backed up, and different devices where they are supposed to go.
I think it is better that point 5 is written like this:
5. Change any names, locations, etc. to what they are on your particular system. In the example above, you may well have different names and/or locations for the directories to be backed up, and different devices where they are supposed to go.
When you have corrected the script, also delete the numbers at the beginning of each line.

-----------------------
18) In 6.5.2 A useful script →Links

Directory of Linux Commands
the link doesn’t work
-------------------------
19) 6.5.4 Pre-installed user scripts
inxi
MORE: MX/antiX Wiki
the link doesn’t work
this should be correct: https://mxlinux.org/wiki/applications/g ... gfxi-inxi/
---------------------------------------------
20) In 6.6.2 MX Live Usb maker
HELP: here.
the link doesn’t work
this should be correct:
https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/hel ... usb-maker/
-----------------------
21) In 6.6.3 Live remaster/persistence (RemasterCC) -> Persistence
under Figure 6-8:
HELP: here
. the link doesn’t work
this should be correct:
https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/help-mx-remaster/
--------------------------
22) In 6.6.4 Snapshot
under Figure 6-9:
HELP: here.
the link doesn’t work
-------------------------------------------
23) In 7.3 Permissions
CLI
....... To change this behavior, consult the MX/antiX Wiki.
the link doesn’t work
this should be correct:
https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/format- ... ular-user/
----------------------------------------
24) In 7.3 Permissions → Links
File Permissions
the link doesn’t work, this should be correct: https://www.linux.com/tutorials/underst ... rmissions/
------------------------------------------
25) In 7.6.6 Kernel panic and recovery -> Links
Ddrescue
the link doesn’t work

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:25 am
by Jerry3904
Thanks. I will be doing a final (for me) Manual in the next couple of weeks, so will go through this list and see what is going on.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:40 am
by Stuart_M
The MX-19 Users Manual has an error on page 26 (section 2.5.1) directly above Figure 2-16 which states "Full disk encryption is available for the first time with MX-19...".

It was first available in MX-18. Both MX-18 and MX-18.3 User Manuals are corrrect (same section).

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:51 pm
by wawasonqo
Hi Jerry,

What software do you use to create the PDF file? If it's not in any of the Repositories is their a .deb Download link for it?

I would like to have a copy with a Grey (Gray 7) Background to make it easier to read on the monitor please.

Thanks!!

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:18 pm
by Jerry3904
I just use LibreOffice. In the GitHub repo you can see the individual *odt files which I simply join together and then click the PDF icon.

I fear that it's going to be a bit laborious to set the background for the individual files, pull them together (Insert > Text from file, one at a time), recreate the Table of Contents and PDF it. There may be a way to deal with the PDF itself, but I don't know what that would be without some research--which I leave to you!

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:30 pm
by Gaer Boy
Jerry3904 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:18 pm There may be a way to deal with the PDF itself, but I don't know what that would be without some research--which I leave to you!
You can do this with Master PDF Editor. There's a limited selection of colours but you can control opacity. There's also an option to use a file as background, which I haven't tried.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:20 pm
by wawasonqo
Jerry3904 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:18 pm I just use LibreOffice. In the GitHub repo you can see the individual *odt files which I simply join together and then click the PDF icon.
I downloaded the mxum.odt file but it's only 62.1 kB in size with 3 pages representing some kind of HTML structure.

What's the story with that?

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:36 pm
by Jerry3904
Wrong file.

The text files are named by section: S1, S2, etc.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:23 pm
by Antediluvian
Hi Jerry. Is this the appropriate place to report broken links? If so, I was reading section 6.6 in the
MX-19 Users Manual v. 20191009

All video links in 6.6 are live, although DO has done some newer videos on some of the same topics. I can chase those down if you like.

6.6.1 all links OK.

6.6.2 right under Fig 6-7
broken link = https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/help-live-usb-maker
working link = https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/hel ... usb-maker/

6.6.3 right under Fig 6-8
broken link = https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/hel ... remastercc
working link = https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/help-mx-remaster/

6.6.4 right under Fig 6-9
broken link= https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/hel ... o-snapshot
working link = https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/hel ... -snapshot/

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:41 pm
by Jerry3904
Thanks! That's not the most recent version, but I'm sure the problems weren't corrected.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:14 pm
by Antediluvian
Jerry, that's the version that downloaded for me today from the Manuals link at the top of the MX Forum page.
MX-19 Users Manual v. 20191009

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:29 pm
by Jerry3904
Hmmm. Guess I never updated the link. The one on your system the should come up with Alt-F1 was released with 19.1 and is dated 20200214.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:29 pm
by Antediluvian
Sorry Jerry. The family computers running 19.1 have the newer manual. The one I downloaded today was off of an 18.3 machine. That said, those 3 links were dead in both versions. Thanks.

[Edit: Correction. I got the older version (20191009) of the manual from this MX page. Perhaps that link should be updated. I got the newer version (20200214) by Alt-F1 while running 19.1.]

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:52 pm
by Antediluvian
Hi Jerry,

Thanks for your untiring efforts on MX documentation and for your help in the forum. I am willing to revise part of the manual under your supervision if you are interested. For example, I've meant to say something about Chapter 2 of the manual ever since I first joined the forum two years ago.

Chapter 2 "Installation"
My problem with Ch 2 is that it is too long and complicated for users new to Linux and presents things in a unnatural order for the majority of users. The basic problem is that Section 2.3 is out of order. It should be placed after Section 2.4. That said, this chapter would less daunting if it were also split into two chapters to reduce the inertia of getting started.

Imagine someone wants to try out MX. Typically they want to proceed in the fastest way possible with a minimum amount of preparation. The preparation involved, especially in Section 2.3 "Pre-Installation", is potentially overwhelming for a beginner. They don't need the information in 2.3 before they run the live-USB in 2.4. In addition, they want to protect the current state of their computer in case they decide not to stay with MX. I don't think Ch 2 should include installation. That is too great an initial commitment of time and hardware. It should be about downloading and running MX from live media. Leave the relatively complicated procedure of full installation to a new Ch 3 after they gain some experience with MX, have time to think over the prep involved in Section 2.3, and get familiar with GParted, disk identification, and partitions.

A revised Ch 2 "Creating and Using Bootable Live Media (USB or DVD)" could cover the following topics:
1) Introduction including a general work flow chart.
2) Preparatory decisions to make based on your computer hardware.
(Sections 2.1.1, 2.1.2)
3) How to download and validate the ISO.
(Sections 2.2.1, 2.2.2)
4) How to create a bootable live-USB or live-DVD.
(Section 2.2.3)
5) How to run an MX-live USB (w/o persistence) including changing the BIOS.
(Section 2.4)
6) Overview of modifying the OS, saving changes w/ persistence, remastering if necessary, creating a snapshot, installing from a live OS, etc. Flow chart of steps and optional steps. This overview would reference other pages of the manual and not present detailed information on these subjects.

Create a new Ch 3 "Installation of MX" by moving some sections in the present Ch 2. Specifically, move sections 2.3, 2.5, and 2.6 to Ch 3.

The current Ch 3 and every chapter after would become X+1. For example, Ch 3 "Configuration" becomes Ch 4. If splitting Ch 2 is not advisable because it would create too much work renumbering all the chapters, sections, tables and figures for the remainder of the manual, then at least it should be reordered and partially rewritten. Perhaps have a Ch 2 Part 1 and Ch 2 Part 2. Alternatively, the rewrite could be done in two steps: rearrange Ch 2 for MX 19.2 & 19.3 and split the chapter for MX 20.0.

What do you think? [You don't have to be gentle. I'm not that sensitive.]

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:21 am
by user-green
Hello,
Please forgive me to post a short comment here.

To make it simple, explanation about Live CD should comes first, then installation of MX comes next. Basically I think so too.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:18 am
by Jerry3904
Antediluvian wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:52 pm Hi Jerry,

Thanks for your untiring efforts on MX documentation and for your help in the forum. I am willing to revise part of the manual under your supervision if you are interested. For example, I've meant to say something about Chapter 2 of the manual ever since I first joined the forum two years ago.

Chapter 2 "Installation"
My problem with Ch 2 is that it is too long and complicated for users new to Linux and presents things in a unnatural order for the majority of users. The basic problem is that Section 2.3 is out of order. It should be placed after Section 2.4. That said, this chapter would less daunting if it were also split into two chapters to reduce the inertia of getting started.

Imagine someone wants to try out MX. Typically they want to proceed in the fastest way possible with a minimum amount of preparation. The preparation involved, especially in Section 2.3 "Pre-Installation", is potentially overwhelming for a beginner. They don't need the information in 2.3 before they run the live-USB in 2.4. In addition, they want to protect the current state of their computer in case they decide not to stay with MX. I don't think Ch 2 should include installation. That is too great an initial commitment of time and hardware. It should be about downloading and running MX from live media. Leave the relatively complicated procedure of full installation to a new Ch 3 after they gain some experience with MX, have time to think over the prep involved in Section 2.3, and get familiar with GParted, disk identification, and partitions.

A revised Ch 2 "Creating and Using Bootable Live Media (USB or DVD)" could cover the following topics:
1) Introduction including a general work flow chart.
2) Preparatory decisions to make based on your computer hardware.
(Sections 2.1.1, 2.1.2)
3) How to download and validate the ISO.
(Sections 2.2.1, 2.2.2)
4) How to create a bootable live-USB or live-DVD.
(Section 2.2.3)
5) How to run an MX-live USB (w/o persistence) including changing the BIOS.
(Section 2.4)
6) Overview of modifying the OS, saving changes w/ persistence, remastering if necessary, creating a snapshot, installing from a live OS, etc. Flow chart of steps and optional steps. This overview would reference other pages of the manual and not present detailed information on these subjects.

Create a new Ch 3 "Installation of MX" by moving some sections in the present Ch 2. Specifically, move sections 2.3, 2.5, and 2.6 to Ch 3.

The current Ch 3 and every chapter after would become X+1. For example, Ch 3 "Configuration" becomes Ch 4. If splitting Ch 2 is not advisable because it would create too much work renumbering all the chapters, sections, tables and figures for the remainder of the manual, then at least it should be reordered and partially rewritten. Perhaps have a Ch 2 Part 1 and Ch 2 Part 2. Alternatively, the rewrite could be done in two steps: rearrange Ch 2 for MX 19.2 & 19.3 and split the chapter for MX 20.0.

What do you think? [You don't have to be gentle. I'm not that sensitive.]
There are some good stuff there, thanks for putting the time and thought into the question. I suggest you pull down S2.odt from the GitHub repo and go to work. Once you have a draft, people here can take a look.

It hasn't been announced yet officially, but I have given up working on the Manual after 13 years, and MX will be looking for others to take that over. Maybe that would interest you (you could recruit some help).

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:16 pm
by Antediluvian
Thanks, Jerry. as you suggested I downloaded Chapter 2 and started some editing. It is a slow process for me. If I get something ready I'll get back to this thread. Hats off to your 13 yrs of service & leadership.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:25 am
by mxer
Something is missing - I couldn't find how to turn off automounting of external disks!

I think it should have something about how to turn it off, because it really annoys me no end, having disks auto mounted. 9_9

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:31 am
by Eadwine Rose
You turn them off like you turn them on. Read the manual again.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:13 am
by chrispop99
mxer wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:25 am Something is missing - I couldn't find how to turn off automounting of external disks!

I think it should have something about how to turn it off, because it really annoys me no end, having disks auto mounted. 9_9
Remember that the information in the MX User Manual is primarily about functions provided by MX Linux. There are other resources for information about functions provided by Xfce.

Chris

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:15 am
by mxer
In case others are having difficulty with this, it's

Edit - Preferences - Advanced - Volume Management - Enable Volume Management


(Volume Management - it's not under Disk Manager.... 9_9 )

It's much easier & more obvious on AntiX.... :p

I still think there should be a searchable item to be able to turn off automounting, not everyone wants it. :cool:

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:16 am
by JayM
chrispop99 wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:13 am
mxer wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:25 am Something is missing - I couldn't find how to turn off automounting of external disks!

I think it should have something about how to turn it off, because it really annoys me no end, having disks auto mounted. 9_9
Remember that the information in the MX User Manual is primarily about functions provided by MX Linux. There are other resources for information about functions provided by Xfce.

Chris
And searching the manual for xfce reveals a link to that documentation, and one to the Xfce FAQs.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:20 am
by mxer
That is a somewhat round about way for someone who may have just installed MX - a bit more guidance wouldn't go amiss. :cool:

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:28 am
by Zeh
mxer wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:20 am That is a somewhat round about way for someone who may have just installed MX - a bit more guidance wouldn't go amiss. :cool:
And let alone the possibility that that someone doesn't master the English language and is using a translated manual...

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:22 am
by Eadwine Rose
Solution: if RTM doesn't work, please ATF.

Another solution: do something, like help translate the thing.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:14 pm
by Zeh
Eadwine Rose wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:22 am Solution: if RTM doesn't work, please ATF.
Not sure if this could be a solution. Certainly not until I get a decodification of what ATF stands for, which I couldn't find after a search on the Internet. Taking RTM as "Read The Manual" it just gets us back to the complain itself...
wrote:Another solution: do something, like help translate the thing.
Well, You're not aware, but I did start translating the thing, back already a couple of years ago. In the process I've realized that the user was/is systematically being sent to outside material in English via links: videos, web pages, help info. So, I thought to myself that if the user is systematically sent back to material in English than he is expected to master the English language. Hence, it doesn't make much sense for me to spend a lot of time translating material from English for people that are supposed to know English.

So, getting back to the matter proper, maybe the solution would rather be someone helping to clarify the info on the manual as suggested (posts #45, 48, 50), for instance...

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:32 pm
by Eadwine Rose
Ask the forum (ATF) if reading the manual isn't enough.

Plainly put: It is not possible to put everything in the manual like you seem to want. Also.. as far as I know only two or three people are actively working on it. Remember we are a SMALL team.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:59 pm
by Zeh
Eadwine Rose wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:32 pm Plainly put: It is not possible to put everything in the manual like you seem to want. Also.. as far as I know only two or three people are actively working on it. Remember we are a SMALL team.
I perfectly know that the MX team is a small team. As said, I've been involved with it somehow for more than a couple of years now. What I don't know is what you mean when you say that I "seem to want" something:
#45 Post by mxer » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:25 pm
Something is missing - I couldn't find how to turn off automounting of external disks!

I think it should have something about how to turn it off, because it really annoys me no end, having disks auto mounted. 9_9
#48 Post by mxer » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:15 pm
In case others are having difficulty with this, it's

Edit - Preferences - Advanced - Volume Management - Enable Volume Management

(Volume Management - it's not under Disk Manager.... 9_9 )

It's much easier & more obvious on AntiX.... :p

I still think there should be a searchable item to be able to turn off automounting, not everyone wants it. :cool:
#50 Post by mxer » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:20 pm
That is a somewhat round about way for someone who may have just installed MX - a bit more guidance wouldn't go amiss. :cool:
Plainly put: if you are not able to satisfy a request, just say you can't satisfy it, don't start telling the request doesn't make sense or the users are asking too much or users just complain and do not help or something alike.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:27 pm
by SwampRabbit
MX Tweak > Other > Enable mounting of internal drives by non-root users

Settings Manager > Removable Drives and Media > Removable Storage > 2 options there for those types of drives

Unchecking those doesn’t stop them from being automounted?

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:18 am
by asqwerth
I think the posters are suggesting some edits to the manual to propose better solutions to their problems, rather than wanting help with a problem?

However, I think we're rather shorthanded right now so it might be better if the posters actually come up with the actual wording and changes you wish to propose to a specific section/page etc of the manual.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:46 am
by SwampRabbit
asqwerth wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:18 am I think the posters are suggesting some edits to the manual to propose better solutions to their problems, rather than wanting help with a problem?
I figured that, but I think I knocked out two birds with one stone.

IMHO the manual is getting a bit out of control. Users should want to and be exciting to explore the OS and all that is in it, not be spoon feed every little thing because that’s impossible anyway.

Also I think our wiki is a better place for some of this stuff, I’d like our wiki to be of the quality of say Arch, Gentoo, or Debian.

Anyway... moving on lol

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:31 pm
by Zeh
asqwerth wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:18 am I think the posters are suggesting some edits to the manual to propose better solutions to their problems, rather than wanting help with a problem?
That's what I thought as well when I've seen the post on the matter. I jumped in just to raise the issue of it potentially being even less easy to find some "not so clear info" in a translated version of the manual.
However, I think we're rather shorthanded right now so it might be better if the posters actually come up with the actual wording and changes you wish to propose to a specific section/page etc of the manual.
Chapter 3 mentions peripherals (section 3.1) but doesn't mention internal drives. So, to me there is some point in raising the issue.
I'd suggest that a 3.0 section be added
«3.0 Internal disks
Internal disks and partitions may be configured to automatically mount on startup. To change configurations use the tool Disk Manager.
Check also MX Tweak, "Other" tab, for mounting internal disks/drives by non root users.»

I'd also suggest that the paragraph
«SSDs
Newer machines may have SSD: a solid state drive that has no moving components. These drives tend to accumulate blocks of data that are no longer considered in use, slowing down this very fast drive. To prevent this from happening, MX Linux runs a TRIM operation on a weekly schedule that you can view by opening the file /var/log/trim.log.»
be moved from it's current position just before 3.1.6. to immediately after the suggested 3.0 section.

Finally, I'd suggest that the sub-section 3.1.5 Storage be moved to the beginning of the section (and renumbered, naturally) since I find storage devices the most relevant of all peripherals and having it immediately after the info about internal disks configurations would make it easier to spot and to understand the whole mater of mounting and unmouting drives/devices.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:52 pm
by Zeh
SwampRabbit wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:46 am IMHO the manual is getting a bit out of control.
Agree.
Users should want to and be exciting to explore the OS and all that is in it,
I'd say that that would depend on your target users. If your target users include newcomers from other OSes that aren't so keen about OSes but rather want a reliable and easy to use OS, then I think you should understand their position. Anyway, the sole ones entitled to define the target users are the MX team members. I am not, for sure.
not be spoon feed every little thing because that’s impossible anyway.
Agree, provided there is a common understanding on what spoon feed may mean. The line between proving helpful info and spoon feeding can be very thin, so there should be some defining of what is supposed to be what in a matter like this.
Also I think our wiki is a better place for some of this stuff,
Agree again, particularly regarding the info in English. If you want to think of non English speaking users,than some thought on the matter would be useful again.
I’d like our wiki to be of the quality of say Arch, Gentoo, or Debian.
Here we get back to the fact that the MX Linux team is a small team I guess...

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:33 pm
by dolphin_oracle
comments noted.

Re: Users Manual for MX-19

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:36 am
by mxer
Thanks for listening, considering my point, & to JayM for pointing me personally to the solution in the first instance. :cool: