MX Linux Forum

OK, so that title could be misconstrued , but I returned to XFCE for reasons of performance. Maybe my experience can help others.

When AV Linux went the Enlightenment route I thought I might as well adapt and adopt it, but it's been a real pain, with official (Enlightenment) documentation not as detailed as I was wanting. Still, I slogged on.

I went for a very deep dive with everything I tried, but I could not get Pianoteq to work without audio drop-outs, while it was working perfectly before — "all" I did was upgrade AV Linux.

Although there were a number of tweaks I made which did help (mostly switching off eye candy), in the end the killer was that something was changing the Pianoteq nice value from -19 to +3 or higher.

So my root-set process priority was being changed by another process.

The takeaway for me is that on older hardware (see below), Enlightenment looks great and is very snappy because it decides to slow down non-UI elements so that the UI can shine. That's nice if you're a User busy Interfacing with some interactive application, but terrible if you're using your machine to do something like turn live MIDI events into audio.

Maybe most people have more up-to-date hardware and won't run into this specific problem, but for me the only solution was to go back to XFCE, where it seriously out-performed Enlightenment in this application: Pianoteq did better on XFCE using a single core than when I gave it access to everything under Enlightenment. Sure, every now and then some UI element takes 1/10 of a second to open, but I honestly don't care about that.

Here's the low-down:

Hi,

Well that's disappointing news, and the first such specific complaint, Pianoteq is not among the demos and I haven't tested it for many years but it is indeed an excellent Plugin. I work in our Studio with Ardour and my workflow is about 80% Audio and 20% MIDI and I vetted Enlightenment for a long time and produced at least two full albums without noticeable performance bottlenecks it before flipping AV Linux over to it. It seems this is yet another edge-case that blemishes its already dented reputation. I had sincerely hoped with Thunar keeping most XFCE4 fans in familiar territory that I had something with nice efficient compositing, frugal memory usage and the familiarity of Thunar and the numerous handy Custom Actions. It seems for as much as I like Enlightenment personally it has not scaled to being robust enough across the board in the wild... I obviously need to dig deeper and make some tough choices for the next major release, so much for running a dark horse I guess..

Hi,

It is of course entirely possible that there is a setting somewhere which stops Enlightenment from changing the priority of other processes, and then it might be fine. It could even be something installed alongside Enlightenment, but I just didn't find it when I looked.

It's not as if XFCE is panacea. For example, it's happened about three times that the panel went crazy, displaying only some status icons and not others. I ended up in a situation where the battery status was shown, yet (amongst others) not the network applet, so I had to use nm-tui or nm-cli to change any network settings. The only way I could fix it was a rather long-winded manual process involving using a text terminal to make the fixes.

So, who knows? It might be a simple change documented somewhere in a dungeon dark, dank, and donk (if you'll excuse the Goon Show humour).

i just loaded the latest avlinux and i find enlightenment to be serious overkill and am having some trouble understanding why it was selected for a music machine.

doubly so if the above is true and it prioritizes display over audio.

isn't this why many of us are looking to replace windows10/11? the dpc latency issues are basically the result of giving framerate priority over audio.

i want my operating system to be like a dignified old english butler. lurking silently in the shadows until the moment he's needed, discreetly dealing with the task at hand, disappearing back into the shadows.

enlightenment is a lot more like an apple i-genius-bro who won't ever shut up.

Hi,

I can appreciate the concept you are talking about but what we had previously with XFCE4 and Compton also had some compositing bling (fades, shadows, etc.) and yet used significantly MORE resources than Enlightenment. Yes, Enlightenment has more in the way of animations etc. (pulsing dock items etc.) but on my development system Enlightenment uses on the average about 120Mb less RAM than XFCE4 did and the compositing is better, smoother and the ability to properly scale to large displays is something XFCE4 seemingly can't even do without outside tweaking.

I would say the situation above with Pianoteq is an extremely rare edge-case and certainly some in-depth study of all related factors is needed to determine exactly what's at fault, other than that Enlightenment might blink at you a little here and there but look at it as an English butler with fancier bowtie and a waxed moustache that's costing you less than the previous guy did... Oh, and if the bowtie and moustache annoy you you can always turn the fading and shadows off (the animations will remain).

kimyo wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2024 1:50 pm i want my operating system to be like a dignified old english butler. lurking silently in the shadows until the moment he's needed, discreetly dealing with the task at hand, disappearing back into the shadows.

enlightenment is a lot more like an apple i-genius-bro who won't ever shut up.

Pretty funny, I laughed - however, it's easy to install your preferred DE from MX Package Installer. On my respins I usually keep Xfce. It's not perfect, but it's cozy and Thunar has many custom actions that can be useful in any DE.

I don't think an extra DE like Xfce adds much bloat. Most of the apps that come with the vanilla MX Xfce iso are really useful. Thunar, Xfce terminal, Featherpad (save as root), Xfce Task Manager etc.

dreamer wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 1:54 pm

kimyo wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2024 1:50 pm i want my operating system to be like a dignified old english butler. lurking silently in the shadows until the moment he's needed, discreetly dealing with the task at hand, disappearing back into the shadows.

enlightenment is a lot more like an apple i-genius-bro who won't ever shut up.

Pretty funny, I laughed - however, it's easy to install your preferred DE from MX Package Installer. On my respins I usually keep Xfce. It's not perfect, but it's cozy and Thunar has many custom actions that can be useful in any DE.

I don't think an extra DE like Xfce adds much bloat. Most of the apps that come with the vanilla MX Xfce iso are really useful. Thunar, Xfce terminal, Featherpad (save as root), Xfce Task Manager etc.

maybe it would be neater to create a specific pack, a la - ubuntu studio tools - , as it was discussed in a previous glen's post that would let people to install onto a regular mx release. i think that would leave much freedom to users.
i am not an it tech, do not know how doable and difficult it could be, but i reckon it could be a great idea.

AVLinux wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 8:59 am Hi,

I can appreciate the concept you are talking about but what we had previously with XFCE4 and Compton also had some compositing bling (fades, shadows, etc.) and yet used significantly MORE resources than Enlightenment. Yes, Enlightenment has more in the way of animations etc. (pulsing dock items etc.) but on my development system Enlightenment uses on the average about 120Mb less RAM than XFCE4 did and the compositing is better, smoother and the ability to properly scale to large displays is something XFCE4 seemingly can't even do without outside tweaking.

I would say the situation above with Pianoteq is an extremely rare edge-case and certainly some in-depth study of all related factors is needed to determine exactly what's at fault, other than that Enlightenment might blink at you a little here and there but look at it as an English butler with fancier bowtie and a waxed moustache that's costing you less than the previous guy did... Oh, and if the bowtie and moustache annoy you you can always turn the fading and shadows off (the animations will remain).

Yeah, for compositing, XFCE was a pain for me. AVL is an audio first kinda distro, for me it was graphics first, then screen recording...so working using Inkscape and the likes was close to a horrendous experience for me on XFCE, I did not want to switch to KDE despite it's perks, GNOME was a no no...Enlightenment, I would use any day...So I would prefer that the enlightenment variant of AVL should still be kept, if you later decide to switch to another DE...

FGS, I couldn't do screen recording on any scale apart from 1 on XFCE, fractional scaling on XFCE leaves more than enough to be desired...

Downsides to Enlightment are:
- it is a lesser known GUI
- No option of having the newer minimalistic (flat or flat based) UI
- Documentation could be better
- very few users

Linux has only one practical DE which is KDE, (since Gnome is a no no for obvious reasons) Enlightenment is a far second...

Aceediq wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 1:32 pm
Linux has only one practical DE which is KDE

You're painting in awfully broad strokes, aren't you?
I find XFCE very practical after some 20 years of exclusively using Linux.

Resume wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 1:48 pm

Aceediq wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 1:32 pm
Linux has only one practical DE which is KDE

You're painting in awfully broad strokes, aren't you?
I find XFCE very practical after some 20 years of exclusively using Linux.

Awfully broad? i don't think so...when I mean practical DE, I mean KDE doesn't only cater for my usecase but it also caters for, if not all, other usecases the most, than other DE's, for other usecases in the Linux ecosystem...

Edit: I don't think being lightweight is a topic in linux DE's any longer, XFCE uses similar RAM to KDE, any one who is still serious about DE RAM consumption should go for Openbox, fluxbox and the likes...

Aceediq wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 1:32 pm
Linux has only one practical DE which is KDE, (since Gnome is a no no for obvious reasons) Enlightenment is a far second...

For me XFCE would be my DE of choice but fluxbox is my desktop of choice. To each their own.

siamhie wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 2:25 pm

Aceediq wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 1:32 pm
Linux has only one practical DE which is KDE, (since Gnome is a no no for obvious reasons) Enlightenment is a far second...

For me XFCE would be my DE of choice but fluxbox is my desktop of choice. To each their own.

I explained why KDE is the most practical DE in a previous reply, but yeah, every user with their usecase which is why I use linux, it can be as bespoke as you want it to be...it's just unfortunate that it doesn't have enough apps to pull it's own weight when it comes to graphics and video (effects)...

it's just unfortunate that it doesn't have enough apps to pull it's own weight when it comes to graphics and video (effects)...

KDE Plasma Multimedia apps. Seems pretty extensive.
https://apps.kde.org/categories/multimedia/

Hi,

Truth be told I currently have my development system loaded up with KDE Plasma installed alongside Enlightenment and it's been about a month of testing, my impressions so far:

- KDE Plasma is indeed a full DE and not very directly comparable to Enlightenment which is more of a Window Manager +minimal DE
- I was biased against KDE from prior experiences long ago but will admit to being impressed, I do prefer it to XFCE4 now..
- Plasma is very configurable and scalable from very plain to extremely composited.
- KDE seems quite stable for daily use but I've found several quirks and settings that have taken a few cold boots to actually work.
- Kwin can crash, but it's only happened once to me so far.
- Sorry to disappoint but on my system with a lot of RAM KDE at idle consumes 1.4Gb and Enlightenment consumes about 850Mb
- Some people say Enlightenment has too many convoluted settings, TBH I find KDE is similar in this regard.
- Native KDE apps do not theme well in Enlightenment even though QT5 stuff themes perfectly, not sure what the answer is yet..
- Dolphin is nowhere near as easy to configure with Custom Actions as Thunar is, it's nice for sure but I still far prefer Thunar..

So far although I'm enjoying the scenery in KDE I'm not especially swayed to make a permanent switch, it very much reminds me of Windows 10/11 and it doesn't leave me with much creative input, that may sound flaky and stupid to most people and that's fair enough.. As a musician, writer and so-called 'artist' (not in any quantitative sense) some of the appeal of Enlightenment has been taking some raw clay and making into something new and more useful, this is in itself a challenging expression of creativity and Enlightenment has 'needed' my untutored input to become an install-and-use product.. (The only others are Bodhi and Elive to my knowledge).. KDE doesn't need me at all and for that reason I find it a bit unchallenging and boring from this viewpoint..

If you want a corporate multimedia production experience that features KDE then Ubuntu Studio has you covered, if you want something for artists by an artist with more homespun layers to explore then I might suggest AV Linux with Enlightenment is catering to that niche...

@AVLinux your post rings true in a lot of ways, most especially on the personal level...at the very least I am happy because your judgement on KDE is quite true and despite your artistic values which has its truth, you admitted that based on average usecases, KDE still takes the gold and you realized that despite KDE taking the gold, it still doesn't stop you or anyone from have his/her own DE or WM that is not KDE/KWin...

And I think those who have artistic taste and decide to say that is the only usecase, also that their choices represent all other usecases in the entire Linux ecosystem is a big hindrance to Linux posing significant competition to Windows/Mac

But, your artistic approach to AV Linux is why I would advice anyone to use it over Ubuntu Studio.

Studio's approach is to find the apps that allows creative expression on Linux, put them all together in an Ubuntu flavour and stitch them together...

But your approach is to find ALL the apps that allow creative expression on Linux, if there is more than one in a category, you take the effort and pains, personally to find out the pros and cons of each and pick a winner and if the difference isn't much, in some cases, you offer the two, put them together and make them work seamlessly rather than stitching them together...

TLDR:
Studio makes a distro based on what is known to work, then sprinkle a little experience here and there

AVLinux, based on what has been experienced on a personal level or what has been experienced in your line of work, gathers all apps and settings that has delivered time over and gives us a distro...which is why I would want a KDE flavour of AVLinux from you, rather than using Ubuntu Studio...

The only advice or adjustment I would like is that as your userbase grows, they will still mostly be artists but you will start having artists who also spend a significant part of their time not being an artist or doing an artist's work and who would want their PC that they've used to do artist's work to also cater and deliver on non-artistic work...

The reply gotten most in the Linux ecosystem is 'go use another distro' spiced up with rudeness and then we wonder why we still hope for the year of the Linux destop...Windows/iOS does exactly this, no matter your expression, they've got your back...it's just that Windows have a lot more app options than iOS...

richb wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 5:45 pm

it's just unfortunate that it doesn't have enough apps to pull it's own weight when it comes to graphics and video (effects)...

KDE Plasma Multimedia apps. Seems pretty extensive.
https://apps.kde.org/categories/multimedia/

Yeah, Linux apps for basic functionalities are quite extensive but most of them don't have fuctionalities that can compete with the de-facto industry standards

Blender is ther already and can become better

Audacity, I would say, is there too, what I would have wanted is for them to have automatic noise reduction that is as good as Adobe Audition

Krita is half a notch above Inkscape when in comparison with other apps in their respective category that are de-facto industry standards...

I would say Reaper is way better than Ardour which is better than LMMS

Autograph, Davinci Resolve and Adobe's options are way better than KDEnlive, Shotcut and the likes...I am still hopeful for Natron

For CAD enthusiasts, I don't know a capable competitor on linux

Libreoffice and Onlyoffice are manageable when dealing with docs and maybe presentation but when Excel is in the fray, LO and OO are not even worhty of Excel's oblivion horizon

For gaming, Linux is theeerrreeee except for those games with some form of anti-cheat implementation


Please note, my conclusions about the apps mentioned is based on which apps can deliver, no matter how niche what you want to do is...for example for Audio production, we have Harrison, Bitwig and others but they cater for certain audio production processes...

@Aceediq you say "Reaper is way better than Ardour" only reaper is a maybe works on linux.
And " Autograph, Davinci Resolve and Adobe's options are way better than KDEnlive" yeah nice windows programs pfff.

Be OK wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:44 am @Aceediq you say "Reaper is way better than Ardour" only reaper is a maybe works on linux.
And " Autograph, Davinci Resolve and Adobe's options are way better than KDEnlive" yeah nice windows programs pfff.

On AVLinux, Reaper works fine...

'Nice windows programs' you say? Well, I can't relate to B*, since both Autograph and Resolve cater for Linux...and I forgot to mention Lightworks and Hitfilm pro...

Unfortunately, not all linux users moved to this ecosystem to revel only in the accomplishment of using a 'non-big corp' OS...many of us also need to get work done...

Imagine if Torvalds made excuses as some app developers in Linux ecosystem make e.g 'I develop the app in my spare time', 'pay up if you want your bug/opinions to be quickly resolved', blah blah blah...just imagine how appaling Linux will be if Torvalds and the other made such excuses?

Now, from certain perspectives, those excuses are valid but if one is going to start something, then one should be ready to put in one's all to finish it up properly...

I mean what then is the difference between Linux ecosystem and Big corps, if we eventually end up needing a few dollars less to develop apps?

It works but i read that linux is experimental.I find it infuriating that on linux forums the talk over windows en mac software.Or a article over a music software and then its windows only pff
But i stop this off topic discussion.

Be OK wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2024 6:21 am It works but i read that linux is experimental.I find it infuriating that on linux forums the talk over windows en mac software.Or a article over a music software and then its windows only pff
But i stop this off topic discussion.

Well, I'll reference the usecases logic in previous post, if the lack of linux alternatives to Windows/Mac softwares doesn't impair your usage of linux fine, it's all well and good but I'll like to ask that you don't force your preferences or linux lifestyle down the throat of those who don't care for your tastes...

the fact that you do not have need for a DAW or Video (effects) editor shouldn't bully those who speak up that they need what you don't need on Linux, if Linux have no capable equivalent or alternative...

At the very least, the developments of WINE, Proton, Bottles, Steam for Linux, the likes and their improvements show and prove that Linux has a long way to go when one considers it's app offerings...

And I'll ask another way, if we are being clamped down because we are adventurous in finding ways to scratch our itch on Linux, how are you different from big corps?

Be OK wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2024 6:21 am It works but i read that linux is experimental.

And what's wrong with an app being experimental? Or do you want to say that all apps on Linux are out of experimental stages?

And of what benefit is it, that an app on Linux, fully developed, not experimental, but can't stand on equal toes with an app that is experimental on Linux, fully developed on Windows/Mac?

I would say that Reaper is simply covering it's butt saying it's 'experimental', I'm sure like many projects who are testing crossports into Linux they don't have the manpower for the degree of support for Linux that they give to Win/Mac. Speaking personally free of OS politics Reaper works very well on Linux and is probably the best option for MIDI workflows in a professional sense, Ardour still has a long way to go with MIDI support. I personally also use U-he, AudioThing and AudioDamage Audio Plugins pretty much daily, they all say they provide 'less support' for Linux but in my experience regardless of what they say they work perfectly in AVL. Experimental is a pretty vague term in software..

AVLinux wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2024 12:17 pm I would say that Reaper is simply covering it's butt saying it's 'experimental', I'm sure like many projects who are testing crossports into Linux they don't have the manpower for the degree of support for Linux that they give to Win/Mac. Speaking personally free of OS politics Reaper works very well on Linux and is probably the best option for MIDI workflows in a professional sense, Ardour still has a long way to go with MIDI support. I personally also use U-he, AudioThing and AudioDamage Audio Plugins pretty much daily, they all say they provide 'less support' for Linux but in my experience regardless of what they say they work perfectly in AVL. Experimental is a pretty vague term in software..

yeah, your informed choices based on personal experience is what makes AVL different...

the other user's excuses is majorly what's obtainable in the Linux ecosystem...being pragmatic is thrown out the window over ideologies which makes life difficult for certain Linux users...

the painful thing is that most know that they can't back up their ideologies with 'Linux-only' pragmatic effort and they still force their choices down everyone's throats...

Aceediq wrote: Sat Aug 31, 2024 3:50 am yeah, your informed choices based on personal experience is what makes AVL different...

the other user's excuses is majorly what's obtainable in the Linux ecosystem...being pragmatic is thrown out the window over ideologies which makes life difficult for certain Linux users...

the painful thing is that most know that they can't back up their ideologies with 'Linux-only' pragmatic effort and they still force their choices down everyone's throats...

The beauty of FOSS is that you are allowed to change everything and anything. In this respect it’s better than proprietary solutions. For professional musicians proprietary platforms might be better. The cost may not be a huge deal if there are paying clients. In essence Linux is the free choice where you are in charge. Choice between FOSS and proprietary is also a good thing.

dreamer wrote: Sat Aug 31, 2024 2:36 pm [The beauty of FOSS is that you are allowed to change everything and anything. In this respect it’s better than proprietary solutions. For professional musicians proprietary platforms might be better. The cost may not be a huge deal if there are paying clients. In essence Linux is the free choice where you are in charge. Choice between FOSS and proprietary is also a good thing.

I do take that very seriously, like everyone I have my own opinions and in my working Studio I use Linux FOSS and proprietary software together, even with occasional commercial Windows stuff running in Wine/yabridge. AV Linux comes with a 1-click "Demo Software Remover" menu item to remove all non-FOSS applications and demos. My mandate is to provide as many real-world options as possible and let the User make their own choices.

Since my post which started this thread I have run into multi-user issues as well as issues when using XFCE which were not there in the previous AV Linux release. This was on our Netflix laptop, but now I have to install the latest on my work laptop. Getting Wi-Fi to work at all required installing NetworkManager and still ends up with many instances of the applet in the XFCE task bar.

I am happy to assist in sorting these out as much as I am able, given my use case, which is explained below.

This is my dilemma: our hardware is fine to run all of this for years longer, but we cannot afford to upgrade it to what Microsoft requires for Windows 11.

What drew me to AV Linux originally are the following points:

• That the integrations are all done, which is an enormous amount of work (thank you, Glen!).
• The focus on performance, as that impacts live work, of which I do a lot (see below).
• That it used (now sadly past tense) XFCE by default, which can easily be tweaked to forego eye candy, so as not to impact live use.

My plan was to run it for some time as my daily driver on my laptop before I would go to the next step — full live use, covering the following:

• Running our DMX lighting controller using QLC+.
• Running Worshipsong Band under Bottles) to control lyrics display in sync with bi-directional multi-track audio (simultaneous playback & recording) using Ardour and connecting to our sound desk. This allows individual multi-track stems to be mixed by our engineer live, using the desk's physical control surface instead of a mouse on a screen. The flow of a song is controlled from the stage by the band leader over Wi-Fi, utilising a tablet, and all band members can see both what they're playing now as well as what is queued up. Click and cues also stay in sync as live changes to a song's geography are made.
• Running four separate monitor outputs, some of which are duplicated physically as well, i.e., up to four separate images going to lots of screens. Eventually I'd like to run them with Multicast over Wi-Fi, with a Raspberry Pi at each projector or screen.
• Running OBS Studio to handle the following:
  • Live video and audio input from a camera via an external AV capture card.
  • Present a virtual camera (with audio) to Zoom for live streaming.
  • Applying pre-set scenes to any of the four screen outputs as well as to the virtual camera. With the pre-set scenes this enables things like picture in picture to any of the OBS Studio outputs. It also makes possible displays for those who don't have direct line-of-sight for events when we have to use over-flow seating or even outside projection for evening events: one scene would show lyrics, another only the speaker, another PowerPoint slides with the speaker small in the top right, etc.

For large events all of the above will be happening simultaneously.

In addition, the machine will have multiple users with different levels of access, most of whom will have any changes rolled back when they log out. Then their next session will present as the previous one did, including open windows and their screen positions, since the users have static roles they need to fulfil.

This is not a general purpose computer, but is an AV controller for critical live use. Enterprise level management will be exercised over the whole lot, given the potential for disaster when lack of knowledge is exercised.

I trust you can see that eye candy is the last thing I want, and the live performance hits imposed by Enlightenment's cool looks are a waste for me. What I need is raw performance of the programs that I am running in the moment.

Live production doesn't have the luxury of multiple takes or of it being OK for rendering to take two minutes longer — everything has to work at the same time, all the time. Of these, lights and audio are the most crucial. A single dip in the lights or a glitch in the sound will be remembered, while most people won't even notice 10 dropped video frames per minute as long as the sound and lights are OK.

Hi @b3ta

Since I've never installed XFCE4 an AVL 23.X-based system I really can't tell you what may have gone wrong, a key difference is that Enlightenment uses "Connman" and XFCE4 uses Network Manager, When you installed Gnome Network Manager did you remove Connman and it's related Packages? They shouldn't interfere with each other but who knows..

I won't be going back to XFCE4 and I've actually uninstalled KDE Plasma from my development system because I'm just not sold on it, or at least not sold on it installed alongside Enlightenment. I wonder for your needs simply installing MX's own XFCE4 ISO, installing a Liquorix Kernel and adding a "threadirqs" boot parameter wouldn't get you most of the way to where you want to get to? I could help you with a few remaining minor performance tweaks if needed. It appears your grocery list above is using stuff that isn't in AV Linux anyway, if you wanted some of the AV Linux custom packaging then it is all archived with every release here:

http://bandshed.net/packages/AVL-MXe-23 ... _Packages/

>> I wonder for your needs simply installing MX's own XFCE4 ISO, installing a Liquorix Kernel and adding a "threadirqs" boot parameter wouldn't get you most of the way to where you want to get to? I could help you with a few remaining minor performance tweaks if needed.

like b3ta, my focus is on older computers. i have several laptops which are 3-4 years old, not speedy but quite capable. using w10 is not feasible, due to the latency/dpc issues.

i've installed av linux on a couple, and have installed xfce. their performance is improved from the standard mx package, a lagging audio issue has been resolved.

but there are several problems, including a lock on the package manager in xfce, i have to log into enlightenment if i want to install / update.

i will now go back to mxlinux and use the liquorix kernel / do the threadirqs boot parameter.

thank you for the package list, it is very helpful.

if you have any other tweaks, especially those for older systems please do consider posting them.

kimyo wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 5:34 am i have several laptops which are 3-4 years old, not speedy but quite capable. using w10 is not feasible, due to the latency/dpc issues.

if you have any other tweaks, especially those for older systems please do consider posting them.

With all due respect, a 4-year-old system is not an "older system". Any machine made in the last 10 years or so should be capable of running Windows 10, and I run MX Linux on a laptop that's probably 12 years old without issue. I own a Thinkpad that's older still and it runs Windows 10 equally well, though I don't use it very much for gaming. Speed these days, insofar as an abstract thing can be quantified, is largely dictated by hard drive latency. A laptop made in the last 4 years is going to be fine with respect to DRAM CAS and CPU clock speed, all you really need to do is make sure you install an SSD hard drive and the thing should run for 5-10 years without too much trouble.

i have at least three 'not older' systems which will not run audio on w10 or w11 without crackles. multiple audio interfaces, fully updated, i am certainly not alone in finding w10 and a 4 year old laptop non-functional for audio purposes.

laptops on the top half of this list will be problematic:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/DPC-Laten ... 376.0.html

yes, i have ssd's installed. yes, the systems will last just fine for another 5-10 years. NO, they DO NOT provide crackle-free audio, even at 256 samples/ 44.1 or 48k.

kimyo wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 6:23 am i have at least three 'not older' systems which will not run audio on w10 or w11 without crackles

This is a driver issue; saying "using Windows 10 is not feasible" is not the same as "these models do not have good audio drivers". If the audio drivers are bad, say so.

If you've run SDIO and the drivers are still unsatisfactory, say so.

obviously you aren't using windows to make music. if you were, you'd be on my side.

there is absolutely no point in running sdio. the problem is elsewhere (w10/11 optimized for gaming framerate instead of audio stability).

for reference:

kimyo wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:18 am there is absolutely no point in running sdio. the problem is elsewhere (w10/11 optimized for gaming framerate instead of audio stability

Saying "w10 is not feasible" on a 4-year-old laptop is not an accurate statement if the driver is the issue. Maybe you're having driver issues. I don't have first-hand experience with your machine, but that's entirely different from saying a 4-year-old machine is allegedly "older" and therefore unusable, or tantamount. Are you waiting for a better Windows driver? OK. Good to know.

There are several machines made much more than 4 years ago with drivers that provide perfectly fine audio. I'm not sure what more you want from an audio setup from a laptop with drivers that aren't to your liking.

I have to smile... I have a first generation Dell Inspiron Centrino core Duo laptop (only 32bit), the date of manufacture is worn off but it's at least 14 years old. I run Enlightenment on it and with 2Gb of RAM it boots up to about 200Mb of RAM at idle, almost the same as Fluxbox and significantly less than XFCE4... A 4 year old machine can run any Linux DE you want without blinking. If you have Enlightenment and XFCE4 side by side I'd be curious what the fresh boot RAM consumption is on your machine... For me XFCE4 used about 120Mb more RAM at idle..

Has the issue with Pianoteq been discovered and solved yet? I'm interested in buying Pianoteq, but not if it won't run properly on AV Linux Enlightenment
(which is running extremely stable on my system so far). I'd hate to install a program, and have it make my system run all janky. Thanks.

Hi,

I have no idea, but will be finding out in the next few weeks once I get it all installed and configured on a machine that will hopefully be built for us this coming week.

From my testing it is clear that at that time there were issues when using Enlightenment but not when using Xfce, as detailed in my first post. Addressing them would likely require assistance from someone on the Enlightenment side of things. Since the machine on which I originally tested no longer exists in that format I'll only go there once the above is in place, so that I can assist in the process.

Remember that:

1. The Pianoteq evaluation version is the full version with a time limit and some notes switched off, so you can download it and try it out.
2. You can run it as a plug-in. That might sort it out, though I doubt it. Still, give it a go.

8-)

Off topic, but important correction to misleading info about Reaper: in multiple posts, it's been suggested that the Linux version of Reaper is experimental. It hasn't been in experimental status in years, and moved to fully supported a long time ago. These days, Linux is a first class citizen among supported platforms there, and 100% officially supported. Reaper works extremely well in Linux, and is for example my own go-to there for very advanced audio/music needs, heh.