MX Linux Forum

Wallon wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:18 pm "I only found one Linux system. To use Chroot Rescue Scan, you need at least two Linux systems installed on the computer".

Actually just one Linux is enough, b/c it's pre-installed on MX/antiX LiveUSB system, so very usefuly to repair also just only one installed system from a booted LiveUSB/DVD/ISO.

Dear Fehlix and Wallon,

Sorry for taking so long to return to this important topic.

Fehlix, I saw the image that you kindly captured and posted download/file.php?id=23765&mode=view, the texts are with the translations made by our Portuguese friends who kindly translated in the area pt_BR of Transifex, because at that time there were no native translators of pt_BR willing to donate their time and volunteer work to dedicate hours translating or correcting the pt_BR texts of MX linu and antiX Linux. Well, I started in August 2020 and make revisions/corrections constantly and whenever I can in Transifex.

The image proves that there is no habit of programmers and developers to look for the latest translations, see the attached image , these texts were edited by me that day 16-12-2020 and as can be seen the updated and corrected texts are not being used. Titles in bold are not translated, and several program names are not as I wrote them in Transifex's mx-all-desktop-entries file.

The "MX Tools" translated for pt_BR is "MX Tools", translations for pt-BR:
1) "Live" - "USB Executável".
2) "Maintenance" - "Manutenção".
3) "Setup" - "Configurações".
4) "Software" - "Programas Aplicativos".
5) "Utilities" - "Utilitários".

And we seem to have one exceptions with "MX Snapshot" which does have "translations" line for pt_BR - but untranslated
and a [pt] translated line.

Name[pt_BR]=MX Snapshot
Name[pt]=MX-Create ISO Image

Here you point out another problem, as the process of creating the important .desktop files is being ineffective. Transifex is still the medium that has the greatest reach to get translations into multiple languages, the forum does not have the same reach as Transifex does.

This is how the texts of the .desktop file in pt_BR would look if the latest Transifex translations were being used:

Name[pt_BR]=ISO Snapshot - Criador de Imagem ISO do Sistema Operacional
Comment[pt_BR]=Crie imagem ISO do sistema operacional em execução, podendo ser executada a partir de um meio externo CD/DVD/USB

Please compare some translated entries in Transifex and the texts that are in the image you captured. As can be seen they are not the ones I corrected. An important detail, when they are titles or texts that I know will be used in the menus (.desktop) I insert the initial letter of the word in capital letters, just as it is in English, in pt they do not follow this standardization.
Please Fehlix, go to Transifex, if you are an antix-development coordinator or manager you will have access to all translations, otherwise you will have to download .po, .qt or .txt files to have access to the texts for you be able to check the abyss that exists in the most recent texts available in Transifex to those being used in the .deb packages and in the MX Linux ISOs. This abyss that exists in the texts was much bigger in antiX, but the anticapitalist accepted to receive several corrections that I made and the abyss narrowed.

The chasm that exists in the most recent texts available in Transifex to those being used in .deb packages and ISOs will only be closed when programmers and developers get into the habit of always looking for the latest translations before creating new .deb and packages. new ISO images.

When was the last time you (programmers and developers) met so many people willing to volunteer with translations of the MX Linux and antiX operating systems?

- - - - -

Caros Fehlix e Wallon,

Desculpem-me por demorar em retornar a este importante tópico.

Fehlix, eu vi a imagem que você gentilmente capturou e postou download/file.php?id=23765&mode=view, os textos estão com as traduções feitas por nossos amigos Portugueses que gentilmente traduziam na área pt_BR do Transifex, por não haver na época tradutores nativos do pt_BR dispostos a doarem o seu tempo e trabalho voluntário para dedicar horas traduzindo ou corrigindo os texto pt_BR do MX linu e do antiX Linux. Pois bem, eu comecei em agosto de 2020 e faço revisões/correções constantemente e sempre que posso no Transifex.

A imagem prova que não existe o hábito dos programadores e desenvolvedores em buscarem as traduções mais recentes, observe a imagem anexa , estes textos foram editados por mim no dia 16-12-2020 e como pode ser observado os texto atualizados e corrigidos não estão sendo utilizados. O títulos em negrito não estão traduzidos, além de vários nomes dos programas não estarem como eu os escrevi no arquivo mx-all-desktop-entries do Transifex.

O "MX Tools" traduzido para pt_BR é "Ferramentas do MX", traduções para pt-BR:
1) "Live" - "USB Executável".
2) "Maintenance" - "Manutenção".
3) "Setup" - "Configurações".
4) "Software" - "Programas Aplicativos".
5) "Utilities" - "Utilitários".

And we seem to have one exceptions with "MX Snapshot" which does have "translations" line for pt_BR - but untranslated
and a [pt] translated line.

Name[pt_BR]=MX Snapshot
Name[pt]=MX-Criar Imagem ISO

Aqui você aponta um outro problema, como está sendo ineficaz o processo de criação dos importantes arquivos .desktop. O Transifex ainda é o meio que possui o maior alcance de obter traduções para vários idiomas, o fórum não possui o mesmo alcance que no Transifex possui.

Assim é como deveria estar os textos do arquivo .desktop em pt_BR se estivessem sendo utilizados as traduções mais recentes do Transifex:

Name[pt_BR]=ISO Snapshot - Criador de Imagem ISO do Sistema Operacional
Comment[pt_BR]=Crie imagem ISO do sistema operacional em execução, podendo ser executada a partir de um meio externo CD/DVD/USB

Por favor, compare algumas entradas traduzidas no Transifex e os textos que estão na imagem que você capturou. Como pode ser observado não são os que eu corrigi. Um detalhe importante, quando são títulos ou textos que eu sei que serão utilizados nos menus (.desktop) eu insiro a letra inicial da palavra em maiúscula, da mesma forma como está em Inglês, em pt não seguem esta padronização.
Por favor, Fehlix, acesse o Transifex, se você for um coordenador ou gerente do antix-development, você terá acesso a todas as traduções, caso contrário você terá que baixar os arquivos .po, .qt ou .txt para ter acesso aos textos para você poder conferir o abismo que existe nos textos mais recentes disponíveis no Transifex aos que estão sendo utilizados nos pacotes .deb e nas ISOs do MX Linux. Este abismo que existe nos textos era muito maior no antiX, mas o anticapitalista aceitou receber várias correções que eu fiz e o abismo diminuiu.

O abismo que existe nos textos mais recentes disponíveis no Transifex aos que estão sendo utilizados nos pacotes .deb e nas ISOs, só será extinto quando os programadores e desenvolvedores criarem o hábito de sempre buscarem as traduções mais recentes antes de criarem novos pacotes .deb e novas imagens ISOs.

Quando foi a última vez que vocês (programadores e desenvolvedores) encontraram com tantas pessoas dispostas a serem voluntárias com as traduções dos sistemas operacionais MX Linux e antiX?

@marcelocripe @Wallon ,
thank you both for you valuable feedback. I think we will go through the mentioned issues. And let's see whether missing translations can be updated just by loading and re-fresh from transifix, which currently is in progress, as mentioned by @ravrett. In case if still some translations would be not shown/missing within the app or desktop files missing, we might go through those individual apps and get in touch with the respective developers.

Dear fehlix, Dear ravrett,

You can check with anticapitalista that Marcelocripe and I are serious about doing the translations.

Marcelocripe and I can directly edit the translations in the scripts to help the busy developers. We can also do some tests to check that the translations look good on the screen. Sometimes we forget to put a line break, a space in front of or after the string or we didn't receive instructions from the developer for the translation in Transifex. That is why testing is important in the local language.

Marcelocripe and I also insist on a better collaboration between developers and translators. We should not stay behind walls and keep everything separate. You are a translator and you have nothing to say... That's not the way to move forward with programmes.

Translators can also bring added value to the programmer who has his head down in the handlebars of his bike. This is understandable, for the developer, his program must work...
Example;
- The developer asks technical questions in his program that nobody understands. The translators will ask for explanations. Often, the translators will not translate but interpret.
- The developer uses an English word that can be translated 10 different ways into another language. The word "Times" in English can be translated into French as "heure", "durée", "moment"...
- The developer asks to answer "Yes / no" at the end of a question. The translators will ask if the Yes or No can be translated into the local language. One developer even admitted to us that he had forgotten to take the local values to run his program.

So we hope for a better collaboration and don't hesitate to come back to us so that we don't leave the translations as they are for the moment.

Best regards,
Wallon

Wallon was able to perfectly synthesize our experiences involving translations.

The word "Time" is also problematic for us to translate to pt_BR, as there are several possible translations and only one will be correct in the context. Another example: "browser", is the "browser" of what? Is it the "file browser", "web browser" or "folder browser"?

I've read here on this forum "anything we use DeepL's translation", but the machine doesn't have the ability to interpret or try to guess what the sentence really means or where it will be used. The use of machine translations will discredit MX Linux in the eyes of the natives of the language and who loses the most with this are the GNU/Linux operating systems.

We translators have no way of guessing what can or cannot be translated, that's why I cite the voluntary work of Robin.antiX, he has experience translating and developing programs, in his programs he always uses comments and always that he believes something might be misunderstood in another language, he always makes comments containing examples. Even though I don't know how to read or write in the English language, I am able to make richly detailed adaptations of Robin's programs, due to the great effort he puts into ensuring that communication is the best possible.

An excellent program where people don't understand it, it just doesn't have any use, because people can't operate because they don't understand it.

The above sentence seems to be obvious, but it is not what we find in practice, we find the use of texts without beginning, middle and end, ambiguous sentences, sentences with double interpretation, etc.

We want to help and hope this can be noticed and understood.

- - - - -

O Wallon conseguiu sintetizar perfeitamente as nossas experiências envolvendo as traduções.

A palavra "Time" também é problemática para traduzirmos para pt_BR, pois existem várias possibilidades de traduções e apenas uma será a correta no contexto. Outro exemplo: "browser", é o "browser" do quê? Trata-se do "file browser", "web browser" ou "folder browser"?

Eu já li aqui neste fórum "qualquer coisa a gente utiliza a tradução do DeepL", mas a máquina não possui a capacidade de interpretação ou de tentar adivinhar o que a frase realmente quer dizer ou onde será utilizada. A utilização das traduções automáticas irão descredibilizar o MX Linux aos olhos dos nativos do idioma e quem mais perde com isso são os sistemas operacionais GNU/Linux.

Nós tradutores, não temos como adivinhar o que pode ou o que não pode ser traduzido, por isso eu cito o trabalho voluntário do Robin.antiX, ele possui experiência traduzindo e no desenvolvimento de programas, em seus programas ele sempre utiliza os comentários e sempre que ele acredita que algo pode ser mal compreendido em outro idioma, ele sempre faz comentários contendo exemplos. Mesmo eu não sabendo ler ou escrever em idioma Inglês, eu consigo fazer adaptações ricas em detalhes dos programas do Robin, devido ao grande esforço que ele dedica em garantir que a comunicação seja a melhor possível.

Um programa excelente onde as pessoas não o compreendem,simplesmente não possui utilidade, pois as pessoas não conseguem operar por não o compreenderem.

A frase acima parece ser óbvia, mas não é o que encontramos na prática, encontramos o uso de textos sem começo meio e fim, frases ambíguas, frases com dupla interpretação, etc.

Nós queremos ajudar e espero que isto possa ser percebido e compreendido.

Dear ravrett, Dear fehlix,

Here is an example that shows a difference between a French installation and a French Belgium installation from a Live usb key.

Test 1
First screen;
F2 Language = Français_BE
F3 Timezone = Brussels*

You have 4 options in the middle of the screen (the first 3 are translated but not the 4th)
1) MX-21 x64 ...
2) Boot from hard disk (is translated "Amorcer depuis le disque dur")
3) Memory test (is translated "Test de la mémoire")
4) Switch to Grub bootloader (is not translated)

Test 2
First screen
F2 Language = Français
F3 Timezone = Paris

You have 4 options in the middle of the screen completely translated;
1) MX-21 X64...
2) Amorcer depuis le disque dur
3) Test de la mémoire
4) Basculer vers le chargeur d'amorçage Grub

Best regards,
Wallon

Wallon wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:38 pm Dear ravrett, Dear fehlix,

Here is an example that shows a difference between a French installation and a French Belgium installation from a Live usb key.

Test 1
First screen;
F2 Language = Français_BE
F3 Timezone = Brussels*

You have 4 options in the middle of the screen (the first 3 are translated but not the 4th)
1) MX-21 x64 ...
2) Boot from hard disk (is translated "Amorcer depuis le disque dur")
3) Memory test (is translated "Test de la mémoire")
4) Switch to Grub bootloader (is not translated)

Test 2
First screen
F2 Language = Français
F3 Timezone = Paris

You have 4 options in the middle of the screen completely translated;
1) MX-21 X64...
2) Amorcer depuis le disque dur
3) Test de la mémoire
4) Basculer vers le chargeur d'amorçage Grub

Best regards,
Wallon

OK, good example. Let's have a look what I see with LiveBOOT from MX-21_x64.iso in BIOS boot mode:
In MBR/BIOS boot mode we get the GFX-boot menu (syslinux/isolinux),
which provides within F2 Language selection 4 French locale
Français = fr_FR
Français (BE) = fr_BE
Français (CA) = fr_CA
Français (CH) = fr_CH when selecting those we got this:
LANG=fr_FR: LANG=fr_CA: LANG=fr_CH: LANG=fr_BE: So it appears only fr_BE, does not have a full translation set from transifex,
within the liveBOOT menu of the used iso.

Now, checking on transifex, we seem not to have any translation for fr_CA and fr_CH,
which means the live system is using the "base" language "fr" (=fr_FR).
But, we appear to have fr_BE translation on transifex for live-boot,
and all translation for fr=fr_FR are currently identical to the current updated fr_BE.

Conclusion: We could have for the transifix resource live-boot just remove fr_BE completely,
and the LiveBoot menu would have used all available translations from fr_FR,similar to fr_CA and fr_CH.

Now, as it appears all translations for fr_BE ( as duplication from fr_FR are now available)
what needs to be done would be re-generation of the LiveBoot system.
(Either by keeping fr_BE or simply remove fr_BE completely from live-boot on transifex.)
After this a new package for iso-template would contain the new translation.
which is used by MX Snapshot to create new isos.

Dear ravrett, Dear fehlix,

An other one not translated for [fr_BE]

MX21 = installation [fr] FRANCE, Conky Manager v2.7 is in French.

MX21 = installation [fr_BE] BELGIUM, Conky Manager v2.7 is in ENGLISH.

Would you please add in the desktop file the French comment "Gestionnaire des thèmes Conky" ?

Thank you very much.
Wallon

Wallon wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:21 pm Dear ravrett, Dear fehlix,

An other one not translated for [fr_BE]

MX21 = installation [fr] FRANCE, Conky Manager v2.7 is in French.

MX21 = installation [fr_BE] BELGIUM, Conky Manager v2.7 is in ENGLISH.

Would you please add in the desktop file the French comment "Gestionnaire des thèmes Conky" ?

Thank you very much.
Wallon

@Wallon , wow that's a good one and another special one. But we can fix it for French. The "speciality" is about, that this tool is from "upstream" (so to speak) and we adjusted (fixed) some code issues.
But haven't looked into any locale issue. The fix is simple by moving the provided translations for conky-manger2 from [fr_FR] to [fr], this would make the translations available for all French locale fr_BE, fr_LU, fr_CA and fr_CH
So another updated package for conky-manager2 will be prepared including the fix for desktop file and will be availaable in the repos a.s.a.p ...
Note: If you want to check the fix in advance before it will be available in the repos:
Do manually move the translations into the right place:

Dear Felix,

Would you please confirm there isn't problem with fluxbox and kd regarding languages with 4 letters? I think that fluxbox is more sensible.

Thank you again for your support.

Best regards
Wallon