MX Linux Forum

An excerpt from a new book, on longreads.com:
https://longreads.com/2019/09/05/how-go ... veillance/
It's basically about how Google came to get its tentacles into pretty much everything we do and "monetize" us all.

personally i hate google.

me too. I feel the computer I am using is being raped whenever the browser status bar indicates translate.googleapis or fonts,... This can get quite annoying when the mobile broadband connection I frequently use gets throttled down to 2G. At that point, mxlinux blog takes more than three minutes to load. You won't notice whenever 3G or 4G connectivity is strong. How much bandwidth gets wasted worldwide? The only reason I haven't gotten depressed is because of excitement for MX-19! I usually download via Distrowatch but if it's a monthly snapshot or respin I need, then it's mxrepo (page loads in a couple of seconds on 2G).

winemaker, same here, google is dangerous.

Use ixquick, startpage, or duckduckgo for search.

A lot of the google tracking on sites is easily blocked by noscript in firefox, so the get less data.

And gmail... I have one, but rarely use it, as a last resort only.

Their power to influence elections is scary.

been using duckduck since it came out.

What do folks here like to use instead of Google Maps?

TomTom :)

malspa wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:03 am What do folks here like to use instead of Google Maps?

A paper map :)

anticapitalista wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:10 am

malspa wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:03 am What do folks here like to use instead of Google Maps?

A paper map :)

Perfect if you have a wife or husband, yep. *giggle*

How many years do I have to wait before I can install an AntiX-19 or something to a retail smartphone and escape the exploitation of big corporations that misuse capitalism? Just saying that on a PC you can protect yourself but hardly on mobile.

Lol, yeah I do use paper maps, especially for my little road trips around New Mexico. Tom Tom, isn't that an app like for a smartphone or something? Well, I'm taking a look at openstreetmap dot org. Seems kinda slow but maybe it'll do for my purposes.

Justinian wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:35 am How many years do I have to wait before I can install an AntiX-19 or something to a retail smartphone and escape the exploitation of big corporations that misuse capitalism? Just saying that on a PC you can protect yourself but hardly on mobile.

Google owns phones, unless you are willing to pay $1,000 for a smartphone. And even then, without Google's apps a smartphone is about worthless. Years ago they used to break up monopolies--the good old days.

Tomtom is a navigation device, like Garmin.

KBD wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:53 am Google owns phones, unless you are willing to pay $1,000 for a smartphone.
And even then, without Google's apps a smartphone is about worthless.

Check out: Pinephone

https://www.pine64.org/2019/09/05/septe ... ping-soon/

It will not be the best, fastest... but it will be cheap, privacy oriented, you will be able to turn off microphone, camera, wifi, replacement battery 10$, you can easily replace it yourself...

Without googles apps in my eyes phone is just great. I don't have smartphone, don't use google, but I will get me this phone.

Also check out pinebook - tablet based on Linux for 100$ (130$ with keyboard that also acts as cover)

Eadwine Rose wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:40 pm Tomtom is a navigation device, like Garmin.

Thanks. Yeah, I've been using Google Maps, with Firefox via DuckDuckGo, on the computer at home. There's a convenient !bang code for it -- !m. OpenStreetMap isn't as good but from what I've seen so far I think it'll work for me. That one also has a few DDG !bang codes, like !ost.

Sorry about hijacking the thread, folks.

my post did not post - so - try again.
tomtom is an old app and i am not denigrating it - i just seem to remember mint bea or barbara or early ubuntu having tomtom. boy that was a long time ago.

Tomtom is not an app. It is an apparatus. A device.

https://webimg.secondhandapp.com/1.1/5c ... 768bce5ab7

sorry. for my minimal knowledge i called it as such. and it was my understanding it was listed under applications on the early distros i mentioned. my mistake.

A paper map :)

A good excuse to adapt the Luddite lifestyle for sure. And don't forget, all these big corps that compile and use your data are government contractors, too. So some of the business is capitalism and some of it is for, well, let's call it what it is: the spying trade for big brother.

People will post all kinds of personal stuff online, well, that's the people's fault. That stuff is being vacuumed up and compiled by the new owners with glee. And these new owners are using that information and the platform to form their propaganda and change nation states into their own image.

But these same new owners of your personal information are funding Silicon Valley giants to get much more data than you would give up freely, if you only realized how it was done. (Don't watch the sausage maker if you want to eat sausage).

Most non-technical folks would be very appalled to find out that almost everything they do online (and offline) is being watched and the system paid for, mostly off the backs of hard-working class folks.

On a pleasant note, the weather here has been very nice.

The Tramp

As a lorry driver I do not use a sat nav because they try to guide you through town centres, rather than avoiding them, and down the narrowest roads as if they were motorways, yet part the way down you find they've shrunk widthways until there's no room to pass another vehicle coming in the opposite direction! Paper maps are here to stay for very many years to come. And you can read them in conjunction with a compass even when there's no satellite signals in that area.

Also +1 to Buck Fankers.

turtlebay777 wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:03 pmPaper maps are here to stay for very many years to come.

I really hope so! They seem to be harder to find around here. Seems like back in the day I could always pick one up when I stopped for gas. These days I kinda have to plan ahead more to make sure I'll have a paper map to use. Last few times I needed maps, I ended up finding some at Barnes & Noble.

Google stuff is convenient but getting more and more creepy. (Or am I just more paranoid now? Lol.) I certainly haven't completely gotten away from all Google-related products and services, but I'm doing better lately at looking for and finding alternatives.

it is not paranoid - it is unfortunately reality.

Check this just for fun... I updated my Garmin Nuvi for free using Open Street Maps!

In case some of you want to compliment your suggested reading here,
a quick search for "google" on www.corbettreport.com and you'll find a fist full of solid documentaries.
https://www.corbettreport.com/?s=google

Last night, i listened to a Youtube by Bill Still via Vivaldi browser.
Went over to his site and got this message:
http://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/860/tuQYYW.png
Clicked on "visit this unsafe site" and still could not access.
Unchecked the Google things
http://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/9791/s8guk9.png
and everything went fine.

Tried Slimjet and Firefox, both had same blocking pattern but i did not go deeper to find out how to change DNS etc.

Then, this a.m. tried again with Vivaldi:
"Error establishing a database connection"

HTTPS is enabled in Vivaldi and i know Bill Still for quite some time.
The initial excuse not to go there is stupid and to block me from going there is even stup...der!

- - - - -

Update:
Even VirusTotal finds nothing wrong with the site:
http://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/8121/oPggAj.png

Question is "how to change DNS" on MX?

Can do on Windows but not that familiar with Linux.

danielson wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:15 pm Question is "how to change DNS" on MX?

Can do on Windows but not that familiar with Linux.

The MX manual is a wonderful thing. Section 3.4.5 for instance.

@JayM - how true!

Evidently needed to be reminded of that.

When it comes to big corporations like Google, Facebook, Microsoft,.... if you are not paying for it then you are the product.

jeffreyC wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:53 pm When it comes to big corporations like Google, Facebook, Microsoft,.... if you are not paying for it then you are the product.

True. But don't think that because you know the game, that you can beat it. This is what I tell myself anyway (as I'm repeatedly drawn to youtube).

Ah well.. nobody cares about little me, least of all Google.

jeffreyC wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:53 pm When it comes to big corporations like Google, Facebook, Microsoft,.... if you are not paying for it then you are the product.

Per the article we're not Google's product, we're their source of raw materials from which they make their product which is selling information about what we do whether on our computers or not.

@Eadwine Rose - i care about you!

Thing is, have been using Google services since the beginning.
Not easy not to and even then as JayM pointed out, there appears to be no way out.

People visit this page and enable privacy settings.
https://myaccount.google.com/privacycheckup?pli=1

I don't even want out.. I'm happy with being part of the googlefu

danielson wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:52 am @Eadwine Rose - i care about you!

Thing is, have been using Google services since the beginning.
Not easy not to and even then as JayM pointed out, there appears to be no way out.

I didn't say that. Of course there is: run script and ad blockers in your browser, don't let your Android smartphone connect to the Internet or replace it with a "dumbphone", avoid visiting Google/Alphabet-owned websites like YouTube, patronize local brick-and-mortar stores rather than shopping online, don't buy any "Internet of things" devices. It's all about personal choices. It's like signing up to get one of those store or supermarket discount plastic cards: if you do and use it you may save a little money but in return they get to gather the data of what you've purchased, and exactly who bought it and where and when. Same if you use a credit or debit card instead of paying in cash. Don't feed the data collectors.

JayM wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:09 am

danielson wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:52 am @Eadwine Rose - i care about you!

Thing is, have been using Google services since the beginning.
Not easy not to and even then as JayM pointed out, there appears to be no way out.

I didn't say that. Of course there is: run script and ad blockers in your browser, don't let your Android smartphone connect to the Internet or replace it with a "dumbphone", avoid visiting Google/Alphabet-owned websites like YouTube, patronize local brick-and-mortar stores rather than shopping online, don't buy any "Internet of things" devices. It's all about personal choices. It's like signing up to get one of those store or supermarket discount plastic cards: if you do and use it you may save a little money but in return they get to gather the data of what you've purchased, and exactly who bought it and where and when. Same if you use a credit or debit card instead of paying in cash. Don't feed the data collectors.

I would consider that crippling my systems.

IMO, it's really time to get rid of Google.

I do not use their services/products anymore. I deleted Android of my phone and replaced it with LineageOS or AOKP.

For an alternative to Google Maps, Open Street Map does the job.

You know what would be crippling me? Aside from being already crippled

If I HAD to always pay using cash.

Going to the bank costs me way too much energy, as they are closing banks as we speak and I have to go all the way across town. For normal healthy people that's not an issue, for those on disability it's a different story.

Buying stuff.. I buy a LOT online, because I HAVE to. And I am glad that option is there. Nope I do not have a credit card, but a debit card is common ground here, and when from abroad I use paypal (GASP!!!) to pay for the stuff.

Trust me.. trade with me, see how well you get by when you are all alone without people helping you, and without all those online things. Not very well lemme tell ya.

zorzi wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:19 am IMO, it's really time to get rid of Google.

I do not use their services/products anymore. I deleted Android of my phone and replaced it with LineageOS or AOKP.

For an alternative to Google Maps, Open Street Map does the job.

I'm a huge Google fan. I actually want only Google to have my info, instead of spreading my info think over other unreliable and less trustful companies and services I prefer that one company has my info.

Since I use an Android phone Google knows where I am anyway, if I were to disable location it would cripple my phone way too much, why give my location and map search info to any other company that I might not trust, both in technical capability -- whatever you can say Google has shown that they can secure their xxxxxxx -- and in business deals. At least being a big company is under scrutiny and has responsibility, spreading your info to small companies that can go bankrupt be acquired by I-don't-know-what company or are unreliable is not a better idea.

Whenever I see this threads with "X company sucks" I get angry because people get so presumptions. Not everybody has your preferences, not everybody worries about the same thing as you do, not everybody reaches your conclusion. The silent majority who happily uses Google products is not likely to be attracted by such threads, so you'll see some kind of opinions over-represented.

BTW, I want somebody to tell me what bad thing Google did with my info.

Go Google!

Adrian wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:38 am
I'm a huge Google fan. I actually want only Google to have my info, instead of spreading my info think over other unreliable and less trustful companies and services I prefer that one company has my info.

Since I use an Android phone Google knows where I am anyway, if I were to disable location it would cripple my phone way too much, why give my location and map search info to any other company that I might not trust, both in technical capability -- whatever you can say Google has shown that they can secure their xxxxxxx -- and in business deals. At least being a big company is under scrutiny and has responsibility, spreading your info to small companies that can go bankrupt be acquired by I-don't-know-what company or are unreliable is not a better idea.

Whenever I see this threads with "X company sucks" I get angry because people get so presumptions. Not everybody has your preferences, not everybody worries about the same thing as you do, not everybody reaches your conclusion. The silent majority who happily uses Google products is not likely to be attracted by such threads, so you'll see some kind of opinions over-represented.

[...]

Go Google!

Pretty much agree, and

Adrian wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:38 am [...]
BTW, I want somebody to tell me what bad thing Google did with my info.
[...]

Google are doing nothing that every other company/country isn't trying to do or doing already

You could still use your debit card to withdraw cash from ATMs at the stores or supermarkets you shop at, or nearby, All that would be known is that Eadwine Rose withdrew such-and-such amount at this location. They wouldn't know what merchandise or services you bought with that money.

I do a lot of purchases online too, because they save me lots of time, money and effort. Rather than taking taxis or other public transport to stores here and there only to be told "Out of stock, sir" it's easier and less expensive to buy via Lazada.com.ph and have it delivered for way less than taxi fare to and from a store, or in reality several stores, would be. So yes, I do contribute to the (meta)data collection machine a bit. But I always pay COD so at least my bank can't get into the data-collection act (plus if an item doesn't get delivered I still have my money.)

A person could go completely off-grid where their shopping and purchasing habits are concerned (another way to do that is to use Craigslist and similar online classified sites and buy stuff from private sellers) but at least most of us can decrease the online data collection to some extent. At very least we can avoid feeding the Google, Facebook, etc. as much as we do. But like RichB mentioned it's a personal choice. He considers trying to restrict the outflow of data regarding his personal online habits to be crippling his systems. Others may decide differently. It's like using Windows vs. Linux or BSD, Personal choice and convenience.

Adrian wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:38 am

zorzi wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:19 am IMO, it's really time to get rid of Google.

I do not use their services/products anymore. I deleted Android of my phone and replaced it with LineageOS or AOKP.

For an alternative to Google Maps, Open Street Map does the job.

I'm a huge Google fan. I actually want only Google to have my info, instead of spreading my info think over other unreliable and less trustful companies and services I prefer that one company has my info.

A default choice is not a choice, I suppose...

For those familiar with the movie Tom Cruise did, working for the IAC (alias for CIA) - Alphabet (alias for Google) sends all data to storage.
The cost to keep those units cool is enormous!
Why the ever increasing need to spy on our own citizens?
If you don't think Google is a portal or front for the CIA, think again.
Watch a few of those reports by James Corbett.
They are all well documented.

danielson wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:52 am @Eadwine Rose - i care about you!

Thing is, have been using Google services since the beginning.
Not easy not to and even then as JayM pointed out, there appears to be no way out.

I'm scared when I read this. How fatalist...

KBD wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:53 am

Justinian wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:35 am How many years do I have to wait before I can install an AntiX-19 or something to a retail smartphone and escape the exploitation of big corporations that misuse capitalism? Just saying that on a PC you can protect yourself but hardly on mobile.

Google owns phones, unless you are willing to pay $1,000 for a smartphone. And even then, without Google's apps a smartphone is about worthless. Years ago they used to break up monopolies--the good old days.

My phone works perfectly with LineageOS. No need to spend $1,000, just move your ass and throw your Android to garbage.

Paying cash for everything might be a good thing in non-surveillance state countries, but here it will get you on a watch list for either being an anti-government radical privacy extremist or a drug dealer (or both).

But then, the last time I looked the list of things that could get you put on a watch list was a 143mb PDF (and no, I didn't leave out any decimal point).

Best Goggle achievement is probably when its users think they can't live without it...

zorzi wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:25 am Best Goggle achievement is probably when its users think they can't live without it...

Worst achievement is when people assume things about people they don't know

zorzi wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:25 am Best Goggle achievement is probably when its users think they can't live without it...

It's not that I cannot use without it, the question is why? I don't have any problem with Google. But pray tell, what harm did they do to me? Please not BS about CIA and other stuff that was posted in this thread, please pinpoint exactly what was the harm that they do to me.

I can show you what benefits I got from them:
- google.com
- Gmail
- Google Chrome (right now I'm on Firefox though, I want to give it another fair trial)
- Google Maps
- Android
- Chromebook
- Google Pictures
- Google Drive

I love all these products, I could replace each of them with inferior versions, but I don't see the "why".

The problem with Google is that there are not many good alternatives to their products. You have to jump into another ecosystem like Apple or Microsoft to get even a fraction of services Google offers, mostly for free. I've tried alternatives, and besides Linux as a major OS it's hard. You accept a ton of inconvenience and loss of many useful services. Nothing compares to gmail and I have Outlook, Protonmail, and Tutanota. Same with Calendar, Maps, Keep, Voice, Youtube, Photos, and Search. I like Duck Duck Go, but it's just not there yet. I use Startpage, but it's still Google without the targeted ads and you can be sure Google knows its you. I have everything I can turn off turned off on privacy settings, but the only way this ends well for users is for Google to be broken up to stop its mass surveillance and collection of data.

Nothing compares to gmail and I have Outlook, Protonmail, and Tutanota. Same with Calendar, Maps, Keep, Voice, Youtube, Photos, and Search. I like Duck Duck Go, but it's just not there yet.

That's one problem, but even if you can get yourself to live with inferior products there are still the issue that you'll spread the info to MORE companies instead of less. Why would one trust more companies with your data than Google?

the only way this ends well for users is for Google to be broken up to stop its mass surveillance and collection of data.

Same question, now you'll have more companies tracking your information. Some of those companies might not even have Google's high security standards, will be less monitored by public and legislators so they will probably feel free to be more cavalier with your info. Some might be acquired by bad actors, having a big company like Alphabet/Google that won't go bankrupt anytime soon actually offer a protection to users.

Ugh. Screwed either way.

malspa wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:38 am Ugh. Screwed either way.

I don't see it that way, I got a LOT of benefits from using Google products and nothing bad came out of it. "Potential" harm means pretty much nothing.

Adrian wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:19 am
That's one problem, but even if you can get yourself to live with inferior products there are still the issue that you'll spread the info to MORE companies instead of less. Why would one trust more companies with your data than Google?


Same question, now you'll have more companies tracking your information. Some of those companies might not even have Google's high security standards, will be less monitored by public and legislators so they will probably feel free to be more cavalier with your info. Some might be acquired by bad actors, having a big company like Alphabet/Google that won't go bankrupt anytime soon actually offer a protection to users.

To my thinking I'd rather have my info split along several smaller companies than one giant company with tons of info on everything I do and everything about me on the web--that's just too much power and control.
I think breaking Google up into several companies would also lessen the influence of just a few individuals to push ideas/agendas on its users. Search in particular needs split off, and youtube.

Wow. Excellent points both ways. I'm heading back to the porch!

Oh, one more argument I forgot to mention, big companies like Google and Apple have successfully fought government subpoenas, a bigger company has more interest and more leverage (money and lawyers) to do that, what do you think a small company would do when government comes knocking at their door?

Adrian wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:58 am Oh, one more argument I forgot to mention, big companies like Google and Apple have successfully fought government subpoenas, a bigger company has more interest and more leverage (money and lawyers) to do that, what do you think a small company would do when government comes knocking at their door?

That could be good or bad.
If the government is just being jerks and pushing tech companies around--bigger is better.
However, if the government is trying to get a company to obey proper law enforcement--smaller is better.

Smaller indeed is better for them. Easy prey.

@Adrian - no Youtube?

Moderator
Post content deleted. Political in violation of Forum Rules.

Adrian wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:40 am

zorzi wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:25 am Best Goggle achievement is probably when its users think they can't live without it...

It's not that I cannot use without it, the question is why? I don't have any problem with Google. But pray tell, what harm did they do to me? Please not BS about CIA and other stuff that was posted in this thread, please pinpoint exactly what was the harm that they do to me.

Personaly, I refuse to use services in exchange of my personal datas. Moreover, I can't stand some of Google behaviors. I try my best to get rid of GAFAM. It's almost done.

I guess next step for me is probably to use 100% free Linux distros.

For me it's just no expectation of privacy if you use any Internet-connected device. Even your "smart TV," Alexa, whatever. As long as I know that going in, it's fine. But I want to be told when my device is phoning home" to report on what I watched, listened to, or asked Alexa to do. They don't say, so now I just assume "if it's on, it's recording."

I'm sure I'm not very important to the government, nor to marketers anyway. And if Google is tracking me in order to make a profile that can predict where I'll go and what I'll buy, etc., is that such a bad thing? I don't think it is, but not being told ahead of time about their "surveillance" is what I find distasteful. No opt-out option offered, no advance notice, unless perhaps if you take the time to read all the fine print in their "privacy policy" every time they change something.

If it were just a case of Google predicting where you will go, and what you like, that would be one thing. But Google (and Facebook) don't stop there. They influence their users in a particular direction, to a place where you are easier to predict and manipulate. Google has good products that are very convenient to use. No doubt about that. But what is the cost to the user? Why are Google worth so much money if they give their services for free? Are we consumers getting a good deal out of what we willingly (often unwittingly) give? How much control do you want to give to one company? The answer is apparent I think, that Google are getting the best deal by some long stretch.

I often hear an argument that there is no harm done, because after all, what is the harm of seeing videos that you're interested in, and seeing adverts for things that you like? Also, that Google and Facebook have no interest in little old me. They build a profile on you, secondarily for your benefit, but firstly for their benefit. That is clear, no?

So, is that challenge to understand the "deal" better and make it work better for you? Is that even possible?

Also, that Google and Facebook have no interest in little old me. They build a profile on you, secondarily for your benefit, but firstly for their benefit. That is clear, no?

And why should I care about that. I am not easily manipulated. If I like something I will bite, If I do not I will not regardless of their profile on me or their attempts to influence me. For me the benefits outweigh their non-existent influence on me.

richb wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:45 am

Also, that Google and Facebook have no interest in little old me. They build a profile on you, secondarily for your benefit, but firstly for their benefit. That is clear, no?

And why should I care about that. I am not easily manipulated. If I like something I will bite, If I do not I will not regardless of their profile on me or their attempts to influence me. For me the benefits outweigh their non-existent influence on me.

Same here. They advertise based on what I like.

Well.. I like Demolition Ranch.. I will however never buy any of the products displayed there.. *shrug*
I also like Snake Discovery.. will I get me a snake or snake supplies? Nope.



By the way: Hi Demolitia!!

I've already been using Duck for a few years now instead of google. And when Vivaldi comes out with its onboard mail client, I plan to switch away from gmail, which logs, through redirection, every click I make in emails. I still use maps and calendar. I guess I'll revisit that when I make the mail move.

Google is not a company to be trusted, as its increasing involvement in shaping public opinion according to its own worldview shows. It's seldom a good idea for too much power to be concentrated among too few, as currently is the situation with much of big tech. I will do my small part to help the situation, and at the same time afford myself a bit of privacy (I know this does not allay NSA-level privacy concerns).

People with something to sell (and in more recent times, Marketing companies) have been trying to manipulate us for 100s if not 1000s of years. Every time you watch a movie or a tv show you are being manipulated (it used to be called "Product Placement"... maybe still is). Tobacco companies did it with huge billboards and also ensured that the star and/or or the "leading lady" of a movie was smoking on screen (even before movies were in colour). How many times do you see a Laptop on a show with the Apple logo on the back? How often do you see the Windows logo on a PC screen? The fact that the Laptop was an Apple product, and the fact the PC was running Windows, wasn't relevant to the plot... it was advertising.

Google just has better and more effective tools... the aim is the same. If you are easily manipulated by advertising and you've things in your house that you bought and never use, and can't even remember why you bought them - you've more than Google or Facebook to worry about

Artim wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:19 am For me it's just no expectation of privacy if you use any Internet-connected device. Even your "smart TV," Alexa, whatever. As long as I know that going in, it's fine. But I want to be told when my device is phoning home" to report on what I watched, listened to, or asked Alexa to do. They don't say, so now I just assume "if it's on, it's recording."

The Smart TV thing really reminds me of Orwell's 1984 with cameras and microphones, of course we have had them on phones and computers for awhile now, but there seems no good reason to have them on our TV's except for surveillance.
I'm glad my TV's are still stupid :) But I expect the next one I buy will have to be a 'Smart TV' as the dumb ones are getting harder to find now.

alexjack wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:39 am
I often hear an argument that there is no harm done, because after all, what is the harm of seeing videos that you're interested in, and seeing adverts for things that you like? Also, that Google and Facebook have no interest in little old me. They build a profile on you, secondarily for your benefit, but firstly for their benefit. That is clear, no?

So, is that challenge to understand the "deal" better and make it work better for you? Is that even possible?

I used to think Google was not as bad as government spying because they just wanted to sell me stuff. But there is no doubt Google has gone evil. When they were willing to set up a spy network for China, and only backed down when they got caught and an uproar followed, all benefit of doubt was gone. Their spying and giving over user info in China to the government was a serious matter that could put people in prison and worse. No, google lost all credit it ever had in that instance. Break them up, the sooner the better IMO.
Dragonfly
https://theintercept.com/2018/09/21/goo ... -in-china/

Edit: more recently:
https://theintercept.com/2019/07/11/chi ... -semptian/

Google has gotten too powerful and borderline dangerous to human rights.

Google has gone from finding what you want to buy to ignoring what you want and showing you what they are paid to sell you.... and have dominated the search engine market so much that it is very hard to develop anything to replace theirs. This makes it doubly hard to find what you want instead of what they are attempting to manipulate you into buying.

Well, this thread has given me a lot to think about. Thanks to all who have posted; very interesting reading.

I do want to continue to keep my eyes and ears open and try to protect myself, but I don't think I'm gonna be so worried about Google anymore. Anyway, life's too short.

Adrian wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:40 am It's not that I cannot use without it, the question is why? I don't have any problem with Google. But pray tell, what harm did they do to me?

I'm not aware of any harm that Google has done to me, either.

Big monopolies, I don't feel comfortable about that part. But I don't want to stress out about it. Too many things causing me stress in my life as it is. I'll likely continue to use DuckDuckGo and Startpage because I feel satisfied with the results I get. I don't really need Google for web searches. I'll use OpenStreetMap, too (and paper maps, because I like 'em!), but I won't hesitate to use Google Maps when I need to. Keeping my Gmail account as well, although I do like using ProtonMail, and I'm not getting rid of that, either.

Best of luck to all! Mods, thanks for letting this thread go on, it has really helped me look at different sides of things.

Eadwine Rose wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:49 am

richb wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:45 am

Also, that Google and Facebook have no interest in little old me. They build a profile on you, secondarily for your benefit, but firstly for their benefit. That is clear, no?

And why should I care about that. I am not easily manipulated. If I like something I will bite, If I do not I will not regardless of their profile on me or their attempts to influence me. For me the benefits outweigh their non-existent influence on me.

Same here. They advertise based on what I like.

Well.. I like Demolition Ranch.. I will however never buy any of the products displayed there.. *shrug*
I also like Snake Discovery.. will I get me a snake or snake supplies? Nope.



By the way: Hi Demolitia!!

I'm not sure the model is as limited as "find out what they like with high accuracy, then show them ads for what they like". Referring to more to Facebook (I think it's likely that Google operate similarly), the model works by changing "you" into someone that is more easily engaged and receptive to ads. For example, if you're more politically extreme in some way, then it's easier to keep you engaged. It doesn't matter which way your are pushed, as long as you are more engaged and more receptive to whichever ads they show you. I agree that advertisers have been influencing us for a long time, but this is another level and I find it disturbing.

I hope you're correct that this can be effectively countered by being informed and alert. I'm not so sure. We've all got human brains with the same loop holes and psychological levers to pull.

Yes this can be dealt with when you use your brain.

Basically not getting worked up over stuff you shouldn't be getting worked up over will help a lot. Lighten up. We all die one day, what is the use worrying over all this when there is a LOT more serious stuff to worry about. Like family and friends.

Eadwine Rose wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:00 pm Yes this can be dealt with when you use your brain.

Basically not getting worked up over stuff you shouldn't be getting worked up over will help a lot. Lighten up. We all die one day, what is the use worrying over all this when there is a LOT more serious stuff to worry about. Like family and friends.

Well, it is the thread topic

Eadwine Rose wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:00 pm Yes this can be dealt with when you use your brain.

Basically not getting worked up over stuff you shouldn't be getting worked up over will help a lot. Lighten up. We all die one day, what is the use worrying over all this when there is a LOT more serious stuff to worry about. Like family and friends.

Agreed. Getting worked up is useless.
Being informed can help though, especially when it informs our decisions.
Here in the U.S. back in the 1970s we had a phone company monopoly. Lousy service, high prices, and no other options. Thank God we had leadership wise enough to break up that mess.
We have something similar now. If you use the Internet you cannot avoid Google/Alphabet. Skip Gmail? You still end up on their servers because someone you send email to has Gmail. Google servers power a number of businesses. If you don't have an iPhone you are using Google/Android. Google can't be fully avoided even if you try hard.
About the only thing we can do is ask our leaders to hold Google/Alphabet's feet to the fire. Hold them accountable. Remove special protections they have been given over the years. Make sure they are a fair player on the Internet, and world stage. This was done to Microsoft when they got too big, now it's Alphabet's turn and a few others. This is our best hope and what we should encourage and support in our leaders.
But getting upset does no good. Don't lose any sleep over Google.

Here in the U.S. back in the 1970s we had a phone company monopoly. Lousy service, high prices, and no other options. Thank God we had leadership wise enough to break up that mess.
We have something similar now.

We do? Lousy service, high prices, and no other options? That does not seem to me to describe Goggle.

malspa wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:03 am What do folks here like to use instead of Google Maps?

If I need a web based map I use Open Street Map or Open Topo Map.
I hate Google. The only product of theirs that I use is Google Earth but you have to set it to:

• no cookies

• use external browser

• no access to local files

• some others I forgot because I don't have it installed on my MX USB that I'm using right now.

Just to be safe I don't store anything under My Places I keep all my maps in different KML and KMZ files in their own directory that I have to open from the menu.

GE is amazing and it runs well on linux. I tried KDE Marble instead of Google Earth but it sucks too much.

BV206 wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:34 pm
GE is amazing and it runs well on linux. I tried KDE Marble instead of Google Earth but it sucks too much.

I often use Gnome-Maps, especially if I want to look at satellite photos. I also have Marble installed, but don't use it much as Gnome Maps which usually works better for me, even though at least at first it seems very basic with few features. I do use Marble if I want to look at topo maps.

I also have Google Earth installed when I need extra features, but I try to make do with Maps and Marble as much as possible.

KBD wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:15 pm If you don't have an iPhone you are using Google/Android.

I don't have an iPhone or a Google/Android thing. I guess I'm about the last one in the world who doesn't want to be "connected" all the time.

richb wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:23 pm

Here in the U.S. back in the 1970s we had a phone company monopoly. Lousy service, high prices, and no other options. Thank God we had leadership wise enough to break up that mess.
We have something similar now.

We do? Lousy service, high prices, and no other options? That does not seem to me to describe Goggle.

I was just pointing out a company that had too much power and control in one industry. Google has been a bad actor in other ways.

JeffA wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:06 am

KBD wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:15 pm If you don't have an iPhone you are using Google/Android.

I don't have an iPhone or a Google/Android thing. I guess I'm about the last one in the world who doesn't want to be "connected" all the time.

I need to call and text people and email for that matter. Google maps are occasionally necessary as well. I don't do the social media thing though.

malspa wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:45 pm Google stuff is convenient but getting more and more creepy.

Creepy is the word.

https://www.thecreepyline.com

The Creepy Line is a 2018 documentary showing the huge influence Google (and Facebook) have on public opinion.

'Google (and Facebook) push users away from privacy-friendly options on their services in an "unethical" way, according to a report by the Norwegian Consumer Council.'

'This feature documentary reveals the stunning degree to which society is manipulated by Google and Facebook, and blows the lid off the remarkably subtle and powerful manner in which they do it. Offering first-hand accounts, scientific experiments and detailed analysis, the film examines what is at risk when these tech titans have free reign to utilize the public’s most private and personal data.'

Adrian wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:40 am I don't have any problem with Google.

So you have no problem with this?

'Google manipulates you from the moment you enter the first character in the search bar'

- Robert Epstein, former editor in chief of Psychology Today, visiting scholar at the University of California, San Diego, and founder and director emeritus of the Cambridge Center for Behavioral Studies, interviewed in The Creepy Line film.

Or these?

zorzi wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:53 am I can't stand some of Google behaviors.

I ditched gmail because of this. Because google wants to know everything about you they always log your ip address. Earlier this year I was in the south of one country and checked my gmail one morning before heading to the airport. At my destination further north I checked it again that evening. The next day I went to another place 100 kms away where I checked it again that afternoon. So far no probs. But the next day, still in the same place, when I tried to sign in I was greeted with an error message: 'Your account has been suspended due to suspicious activity'.

I had to wait 2 days before I was allowed back in. Can somebody explain why google doesn't understand the concept of air travel, where, in this day and age (actually for more than half a century probably) it's possible to be in different locations in a particular country in a matter of hours?

LU344928 wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:54 am

Adrian wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:40 am I don't have any problem with Google.

So you have no problem with this?

'Google manipulates you from the moment you enter the first character in the search bar'

- Robert Epstein, former editor in chief of Psychology Today, visiting scholar at the University of California, San Diego, and founder and director emeritus of the Cambridge Center for Behavioral Studies, interviewed in The Creepy Line film.

Or these?

You are manipulated from the moment you are born, have you left the world because of that?

Adrian wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:33 am You are manipulated from the moment you are born, have you left the world because of that?

Although that is correct, it's a logical fallacy when applied here. I think LU344928 was trying to suggest, that Google is actively trying to control discourse, hence his link to Project Veritas.
Mr. Epstein's reference about the moment you type the first character, is very likely, in reference to the auto-complete menu that drops down.

It's a whole different ball game to what you are referring to. Using a similar logical fallacy, I can suggest that murder is OK because we kill bacteria on a regular basis.

AK-47 wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:48 am It's a whole different ball game to what you are referring to. Using a similar logical fallacy, I can suggest that murder is OK because we kill bacteria on a regular basis.

That's a bit different, I think your example is an exaggeration while mine was in the ballpark, think about it, you go to school - you are manipulated, you go to work - you are manipulated, you go to store/restaurant - you are manipulated, you go to a webpage - you are manipulated. Is that such a big difference between Google manipulating you and you going to a grocery store and being able to get the milk only from a fridge in the back? Is really that comparison like suggesting that killing is OK if it's OK to kill bacteria?

Adrian wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:08 pmThat's a bit different, I think your example is an exaggeration while mine was in the ballpark, think about it, you go to school - you are manipulated, you go to work - you are manipulated, you go to store/restaurant - you are manipulated, you go to a webpage - you are manipulated. Is that such a big difference between Google manipulating you and you going to a grocery store and being able to get the milk only from a fridge in the back? Is really that comparison like suggesting that killing is OK if it's OK to kill bacteria?

Mine wasn't an exaggeration, but a demonstration of the logical fallacy you were using: X happens all the time so that makes it OK. We kill bacteria, we kill pests, and we kill animals food (hunting), how is killing a human any different?
Google's manipulation (which extends beyond their search engine) is quite different from getting milk only from the fridge in the back (which generally only affects impulsive buyers). Note that Google have legal exemptions from some liability under the expectation that it will be neutral. Grocery stores have no such exemption.

It's not just Google's search engine either: YouTube is known for censoring or attempting to de-platform creators who have certain political views (which I won't delve into here) or who say certain words or things. Definitely going beyond "grocery store grade" manipulation techniques.

Note that Google have legal exemptions from some liability under the expectation that it will be neutral.

That's not a correct interpretation of the state of fact, every content provider including this forum is protected by Section 230, that proposal to remove even for some companies it is very dangerous, hopefully won't happen.

This is a summary what "Section 230" is: https://www.eff.org/issues/cda230

LU344928 wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:14 am

zorzi wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:53 am I can't stand some of Google behaviors.

I ditched gmail because of this. Because google wants to know everything about you they always log your ip address. Earlier this year I was in the south of one country and checked my gmail one morning before heading to the airport. At my destination further north I checked it again that evening. The next day I went to another place 100 kms away where I checked it again that afternoon. So far no probs. But the next day, still in the same place, when I tried to sign in I was greeted with an error message: 'Your account has been suspended due to suspicious activity'.

I had to wait 2 days before I was allowed back in. Can somebody explain why google doesn't understand the concept of air travel, where, in this day and age (actually for more than half a century probably) it's possible to be in different locations in a particular country in a matter of hours?

And, all of their sites automatically default to whatever they think is the language of whatever country you're in rather than allowing you to choose. They've also never heard of tourists or ex-pats, apparently. If you happened to fly to Mexico City on business and accessed Gmail's site it would all be in Spanish (not your actual emails, but their web interface.) Same with Blogger.

I said "whatever they think is the language of whatever country you're in" because in the Philippines all Google-owned websites default to Filipino (Tagalog.) This shows that they know absolutely nothing about the Philippines. 1: there are two official languages here, Filipino and English. 2. There are at last count 171 different languages and dialects spoken here, so both Filipino and English are second and third languages for the majority of Filipinos who learn them both in school starting in grade 2 and continuing until graduation from high school. (Even in the Manila area people actually speak something called "Taglish", which is a kind of blend of the two, as their everyday language rather than pure Tagalog.) So by forcing their websites into Filipino they're inconveniencing most Filipinos just as much as if they'd left the sites in English, and they're also showing their stark ignorance of the country and its people.

Adrian wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:33 am
You are manipulated from the moment you are born, have you left the world because of that?

I would suggest the term indoctrination is more apt. We are certainly indoctrinated from an early age but when we become adults we can make our own choices and decisions. But what google does is manipulate your search results based on your personal data. You're given different results based on your income - google knows everything about you, including how much you earn; or based on where you live, or a host of other criteria. This is known as the 'filter bubble'. And the filter bubble is particularly pernicious when searching for information on that topic the discussion of which is against forum rules.

You also asked what harm has google done to you. As Eli Pariser, who coined that term, points out, we get trapped in this filter bubble and don't get exposed to information that could challenge or broaden our worldview. This will ultimately prove to be bad for us and bad for society.

When I do searches on Google I get articles from all points of view, not tailored to my particular world view. As far as articles tailored to my interests, which is different than general articles on news items, that is something I appreciate.

Quite a bit has been written about both subjects:

Surveillance Capitalism
https://www.amazon.com/Age-Surveillance ... 2HVQXHJKEB

Filter Bubble (Eli Pariser's book)
https://www.amazon.com/Filter-Bubble-Wh ... =0&ie=UTF8

JayM wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:08 pm

LU344928 wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:14 am

zorzi wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:53 am I can't stand some of Google behaviors.

I ditched gmail because of this. Because google wants to know everything about you they always log your ip address. Earlier this year I was in the south of one country and checked my gmail one morning before heading to the airport. At my destination further north I checked it again that evening. The next day I went to another place 100 kms away where I checked it again that afternoon. So far no probs. But the next day, still in the same place, when I tried to sign in I was greeted with an error message: 'Your account has been suspended due to suspicious activity'.

I had to wait 2 days before I was allowed back in. Can somebody explain why google doesn't understand the concept of air travel, where, in this day and age (actually for more than half a century probably) it's possible to be in different locations in a particular country in a matter of hours?

And, all of their sites automatically default to whatever they think is the language of whatever country you're in rather than allowing you to choose. They've also never heard of tourists or ex-pats, apparently. If you happened to fly to Mexico City on business and accessed Gmail's site it would all be in Spanish (not your actual emails, but their web interface.) Same with Blogger.

I said "whatever they think is the language of whatever country you're in" because in the Philippines all Google-owned websites default to Filipino (Tagalog.) This shows that they know absolutely nothing about the Philippines. 1: there are two official languages here, Filipino and English. 2. There are at last count 171 different languages and dialects spoken here, so both Filipino and English are second and third languages for the majority of Filipinos who learn them both in school starting in grade 2 and continuing until graduation from high school. (Even in the Manila area people actually speak something called "Taglish", which is a kind of blend of the two, as their everyday language rather than pure Tagalog.) So by forcing their websites into Filipino they're inconveniencing most Filipinos just as much as if they'd left the sites in English, and they're also showing their stark ignorance of the country and its people.

I noticed this in Thailand. Incidentally, that country I mentioned earlier just happens to be the Philippines - Cebu one morning, Manila that afternoon and Subic the following day. Those travel movements are suspicious activity according to gmail. Ludicrous!

But back to Thailand. When I was there I created another gmail account. When I left and tried signing in from a neighboring country I was told "You are signing in from an unrecognized device'. Of course it's an unrecognized device. It's a different computer in another country. They're called internet cafes and have been around for 25 years or more. Why doesn't gmail understand the concept of internet cafes? So I could go no further. Luckily it wasn't my main email account.

When I got back to Thailand and was finally allowed to sign in I see the message 'Someone has your password. Was it you?' When I clicked on YES I thought that would be the end of. Not a chance. On my next trip exactly the same sequence of events happened, ie not being allowed to sign in from another country and then when returning to Thailand seeing the same, someone has your password, was it you message.

Who in their right mind would continue to use gmail after being put through all this!

richb wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:42 am When I do searches on Google I get articles from all points of view, not tailored to my particular world view.

Sounds like you weren't signed into any of google's services.

I doubt that is the case. When you're using google you're always signed in to sync stuff.

LU344928 wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:57 am

richb wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:42 am When I do searches on Google I get articles from all points of view, not tailored to my particular world view.

Sounds like you weren't signed into any of google's services.

Indeed I was.

You WERE logged in, or you were not? Hehe.. now I am confuzzled

For me. Yes I was logged in to Google. I always am when my computer is on.

You also have a choice of signing out or using "incognito window" that doesn't give you personalized results.

There is also this. You can turn off location history, activity logging and a bunch of other stuff.
https://safety.google/privacy/privacy-controls/

richb wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:40 am There is also this. You can turn off location history, activity logging and a bunch of other stuff.
https://safety.google/privacy/privacy-controls/

I expect Google to respect that setting just as much as they respect the setting in search to give me results in English: which gives me results in every language on the planet and an offer to translate them. If it was in English it would not need translated into English.

Well Rich.. you cannot win. If people are dead set against google they will find and use any and all arguments to spout and show you it is bad.

Eadwine Rose wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:46 am Well Rich.. you cannot win. If people are dead set against google they will find and use any and all arguments to spout and show you it is bad.

Of course, if you don't like a company don't use their products, I for example won't touch anything that Facebook is involved in, you can tell me that Facebook has privacy settings or whatever it won't convince me, however I don't necessarily go around telling people not to use Facebook, each person has their own values and perspective about things.

+1 on that one Adrian.

I do use facebook, I use google, I even use GASP Netflix. I am so doomed. But if you don't want to use it.. fine with me. You do you and all that.

...But if you don't want to use it.. fine with me. You do you and all that.

And THAT is why I keep coming back here, heh, heh.

Love to you ALL!

The Tramp

I'm both impressed and mortified that there are people who believe that, if a company is readily offering services like this for free and shoving it in your face a la Facebook, there won't be a catch.

• Google - search engine, YouTube, etc. supported by personalised ads and data mining. You are the product.
• Facebook - relationship destruction dossiers, supported by selling users' personal data to unknown corporations and performing social experiments on their users. You are the product.
• Twitter - micro-blogging for micro-brains. Revenue stream supported by data mining. You are the product.

I disapprove of many of their actions, particularly in recent times, but people need to take responsibility for themselves. A nice feature of capitalism is the ability to vote with your wallet. If you find an online service useful, you can decide if you want to pay for it or not. You will be paying for it in some way or another.

One should not presume to make decisions for others or denigrate their choices. I am sorry if anyone is mortified by my choices. But it is what it is.

Google - search engine, YouTube, etc. supported by personalised ads and data mining. You are the product.

I'm perfectly fine with the exchange, I get a lot of benefits from Google for little in exchange, what's the problem being served "personalized" ads that I either ignore or block (I know, that's bad of me), and even if I would not ignore the ads what would be the problem if they sent me an ad relevant to my searches?

I'm both impressed and mortified that there are people who believe that, if a company is readily offering services like this for free and shoving it in your face a la Facebook, there won't be a catch.

I like the qualifier "and shoving it in your face", we do offer a free product and there's no catch. But yeah, we are not a company that has fiduciary responsibility to shareholders.

Another thing about Google is if you haven't paid them money for search results of your name, they prioritize results which could be damaging to your image. I tried this my self and the search results would pull pages from more than a decade ago where I was not acting nice against another forum member. Google results simply ignored more recent pages where my name also appears. I get normal results when searching with DuckDuckGo and Yahoo.

When I google on my name the results are all benign. I just found my old tweets, had a good laugh about them. On youtube found mostly cat videos, my sewing machine on flickr, a mention on the Mepis forum from back in 2008, and the rest is this forum for the quick run through I did.

The general rule applies with everything, whether you use google, bing, yahoo, whatever: if you don't want it on the internet, don't put it on the internet.

There are alternatives to these platforms:

• Instead of Facebook try Diaspora, Friendica, or Hubzilla (but beware of this and this).

• Instead of Google try Duck Duck Go or Startpage.

• Instead of Twitter try Mastodon (but again, this).

I honestly don't use any of them anymore, except Gmail as a "junk mail" address that I never check, and Facebook because some family members insist on it - again, rarely ever checked.

richb wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:07 am For me. Yes I was logged in to Google. I always am when my computer is on.

I think you'd get quite different results using Tor browser.

Eadwine Rose wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:46 am Well Rich.. you cannot win. If people are dead set against google they will find and use any and all arguments to spout and show you it is bad.

Fact is google has behaved badly:

'Google suffered a major blow on Tuesday after European antitrust officials fined the search giant a record $2.7 billion for unfairly favoring some of its own services over those of rivals.'
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/27/tech ... -fine.html

And more recently:

'Texas will lead a joint state investigation into Google over antitrust concerns, state Attorney General Ken Paxton announces'
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/09/texas-a ... probe.html

'Attorneys general for 48 U.S. states as well as Washington, D.C., and Puerto Rico are launching probes into whether Google is violating antitrust law.'
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/google-ant ... -and-data/

LU344928 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:49 am'Google suffered a major blow on Tuesday after European antitrust officials fined the search giant a record $2.7 billion for unfairly favoring some of its own services over those of rivals.'
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/27/tech ... -fine.html

This doesn't add to any case of Google behaving badly. Google is just doing exactly what businesses are meant to do, and it's people who decide to use their services. That's what you want for any business regardless of size.

LU344928 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:49 am'Texas will lead a joint state investigation into Google over antitrust concerns, state Attorney General Ken Paxton announces'
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/09/texas-a ... probe.html

'Attorneys general for 48 U.S. states as well as Washington, D.C., and Puerto Rico are launching probes into whether Google is violating antitrust law.'
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/google-ant ... -and-data/

Launching investigations and probes doesn't automatically mean someone is guilty, it just means someone is suspected of doing something wrong. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for investigations and probes of wrongdoings, but let's wait until the conclusions of the investigations are available from a reliable source before making conclusions. Everyone including Google has the right to a fair trial, and these investigations are just stages of discovery, to find evidence. Many investigations reveal insufficient evidence to prove a wrongdoing.

it seems that tascoast didn't elaborate:

Tech giant Google has been hauled into the Federal Court by regulators over allegations,
it has been misleading consumers about the personal location data it collects, keeps and uses.

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) said it was the first time a regulator anywhere in world had taken on the global giant, which has a current market value of about $US880 billion (A1.3 trillion), over the alleged misuse of personal data