MX Linux Forum

manyroads wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:54 pm The requirement for it in v 3.8 seems bizarre.

GNOME is currently on v3.32

That Gentoo wiki page is incorrect, at least in respect of OpenBSD & GNOME.

manyroads wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:41 pmI just found a disturbing article that says effect 3.8 Gnome will require systemd. Personally I don't use it (systemd or Gnome). But it seems a bad requirement. Torvalds agrees.

This is all over my head... see: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd/In ... om_scratch

There is a race between people who seem to be trying break things in order to lock you into systemd and other people who are working to fiix things and give you a choice. When that article was written the forces of darkness were ahead but now the good guys are catching up.

manyroads wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:54 pm [It's tough getting old.

But it's better than the alternative!

Gnome requires services that the logind part of systemd provides.
elogind is a fork of logind that provides those services without requiring systemd installation.
Gnome is currently installable with elogind. Whether or not that changes is up to the Gnome devs.

timkb4cq wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:06 pm Gnome requires services that the the logind part of systemd provides.
elogind is a fork of logind that provides those services without requiring systemd installation.
Gnome is currently installable with elogind. Whether or not that changes is up to the Gnome devs.

Sounds like the guys who specialize in reverse-engineering software have a fair amount to keep themselves entertained.

BitJam wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:00 pm There is a race between people who seem to be trying break things in order to lock you into systemd and other people who are working to fiix things and give you a choice.

Don't you think that's a bit melodramatic?

The GNOME developers are trying to improve their desktop and systemd is now the de facto init system for GNU/Linux so it makes sense that they would avail themselves of it's impressive raft of functionality.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:18 pm

BitJam wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:00 pm There is a race between people who seem to be trying break things in order to lock you into systemd and other people who are working to fiix things and give you a choice.

Don't you think that's a bit melodramatic?

The GNOME developers are trying to improve their desktop and systemd is now the de facto init system for GNU/Linux so it makes sense that they would avail themselves of it's impressive raft of functionality.

I don't think it's melodramatic. It's how I view the situation. YMMVG. IMO this attempt to force people to use systemd and make it very difficult not to is very similar to Microsoft's attempts to force people to use Windows and make it very difficult not to.

It usually turns out that the "impressive raft of functionality" of systemd used by Gnome and others was already available using standard tools. The rush to make systemd the "de facto init system" also felt malevolent in the same way Microsoft has tried to break things by pushing incompatible standards. If you look at the top page-hit distros on distrowatch then you will see there is a lot of resistance to accepting systemd as the defacto standard despite all the obstacles that are thrown in the path of people who want choice.

I'm reminded of the parable of the North Wind and the Sun. People and actions that seem to intentionally cause me a lot of extra unnecessary work unless I bow to their will are considered *bad* in my book. I can cite specific examples for both Microsoft and systemd but that hardly seems necessary.

My gripes about systemd and Microsoft can be summarized as does not play well with others. In my view of the world, humans dominated other species because language gave us a better ability to cooperate (and gang up). Societies and civilizations are based on trust and cooperation. In my view by not playing well with others both Microsoft and systemd are selfishly bettering their own position at the expense of society as a whole. This is almost the exact opposite of the philosophy of the FOSS community that I adhere to.

What is/was the motive of systemd developers. I do not mean the technical or philosophical motive, but the more nefarious motive that seems to be a popular narrative. I simply ask as I do not know and not as argumentative.

richb wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:56 pm What is/was the motive of systemd developers. I do not mean the technical or philosophical motive, but the more nefarious motive that seems to be a popular narrative. I simply ask as I do not know and not as argumentative.

They are trying to make Linux their own private monopoly, just like Google with Android.

GuiGuy wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:55 pm

richb wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:56 pm What is/was the motive of systemd developers. I do not mean the technical or philosophical motive, but the more nefarious motive that seems to be a popular narrative. I simply ask as I do not know and not as argumentative.

They are trying to make Linux their own private monopoly, just like Google with Android.

Google and get mostly opinion. To what end are they trying to make Linux their own private monopoly?

Android is a closed system, totally under the control of Google, and a contributor to their billions both directly and indirectly.