MX Linux Forum

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:20 pm**

We want to develop a document that would link off MX Welcome (alongside the new FAQs) that would guide the new user through the 10-12 most common procedures users carry out after installation, and are looking for Community help to come up with a list. We'd appreciate your suggestions, and basing them on your own experience would be even better.

Most (if not all) will fit into the two big categories that we use in the Users Manual:

Configuration = how to get things working (e.g., drivers, kernels, dealing with Windows, etc.)

Customization = how to get it the way I want it (e.g., panel, desktop, icons, etc.)

Thanks for your help!

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:57 pm**

I've thought in the past that a 'first start up' wallpaper, that had explanations, references to like, the user manual, the wiki, this forum... and some simple definitions, because some of the program names are screwy, like 'cd/dvd burner = xfburn', etc. might be a big help.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:06 pm**

That would be as simple as adding a button on the MX Startup Page, entitled: Linux Terminology

The great thing about having a button like that is also that some other basic non-app references could be included in there. Perhaps something like:
Windows Drives/Partitions c:/ d:/ e:/ are equal to SDA or SDA1, SDB, or SDD within Linux ... something like that anyway.
On the other hand though, if too much gets into that, then it'll become too much like a Wiki or a handbook.

I agree though, I've always felt that the Linux distros with their respective desktops should include a very simple easy to understand "get to know" file with some of the more important terms & references. Here's an example why: I love the MX Linux Manual and the Wiki, but I would not recommend either of them to the people whom I know, because all that would do would be to intimidate them. Yeah, I know it may sound politically incorrect, but sometimes it's also important to be able to talk down to Joe Average in simpler terms. It's an artform ...

Most people are not computer or smartphone savvy - but everybody wants to have one or both.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:48 pm**

Having started with Mint before settling on MX, I've appreciated the "Easy Linux tips project"; such as how to optimize your SSD (https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/ssd) or "Speed up your Mint" (https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/3).

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:24 pm**

I really like the Linux Terminology idea, maybe even have a section in the manual about that and link to it (we do have an "under the hood" section).

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:33 pm**

I really like the Linux Terminology idea, maybe even have a section in the manual about that

You mean like the Users Manual, Section 8: "Glossary"?

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:39 pm**

Yeah, but not quite, for example I don't think Glossary explains /dev/sda1 notation or "what is using my memory" type of questions that you see from new Linux users.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:00 pm**

I don't think Glossary explains /dev/sda1 notation

For the record: Alt-F1 > Ctrl-F > "sda" lands on the section explaining drive labeling.

But there's lots of ways to skin a cat...

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:35 pm**

I have a two column page of notes that I've been maintaining for 8 or 10 years through various distros. Always started a new one for each new distro. There is probably much that is just notes for myself, but mostly how to setup my MX install, apps, mods, general appearance.

I'll send you a copy for your perusal. I could elaborate on the anything you find useful, since it is in a sort of cryptic
notes trying to pack everything on 1 page. I also keep lots of notes on things from the forum, etal, in a CherryTree (A Hierarchical Note Taking Application) depending on how the development of the Quick Start goes.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:51 pm**

http://mxlinuxguide.blogspot.com/ covers much of the initial desktop customizations. I've been meaning to revise, with mention of windows buttons (drag and drop/clear or opaque). I should add mention of %R for 24-hour time, option to replace Orage with regular clock if clear background is desired.
Custom Grub background might also be included (System Tools tab), along with an additional Disk Manager reference to auto-mount other partitions/drives etc.
These cover the main things a new user might want to know about desktop and basic functionality.
A mention of increasing Panel/Notification Area icon size and overall desktop fonts would also be helpful.

Edit - perhaps a quick reference to setting Screensaver, noting defaults.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:33 am**

My wife and my brother's whole adult family (at least 5 who switched from Windows to Linux, all of whom have very limited computer knowledge with no interest to spend time learning more unknown stuff) all switched from Windows to Linux. None of them liked what needed to be learned in Windows over the years, in order to confront problems, take care of disk maintenance, get used to drive ID descriptions, and so on. All of them, like just about everyone else whom I deal with, were interested in using their apps of interest and nothing else. It's those types (most) of people in particular who actually feel that "they've learned a lot / enough already" about computers, that they're just not receptive to having to learn more. It's just human nature, after having already dealt with Windows for 10 or more years. So I don't fault them for that. BUT ...

... that's also why I feel the need to be compassionate to those who are making the Linux switch, by providing something far more basic and tolerable to deal with, when first powering on and logging into their Linux. The user manual is too much for newcomers or strictly Windows users. The startup/welcome screen is the perfect place to get people interested in more useful & linux specific information, which I would create with a triple whammy of sorts. Ever see the movie Starship Troopers - Want to find out more? (grin)
Anyway, the following idea is from that movie.

1. Login screen appears, user logs in.
2. After logging in, welcome Window appears by default on the screen.
3. HUMOROUS BUTTON - Linux quick 'n' dirty for us lazy folks! (I'm serious, adress everyone fun & jovially. Humor creates interest)
4. Clicking on Linux quick 'n' dirty them provides another menu while the first one goes away (like in Mx Tools/Tweak)

Sub-Menu Appears on the screen (it's at that point the only thing on the screen) ...

1. Using the control panel, find out more ...
2. Easy & Fun terminal use, find out more ...
3. Everything your panel can do, find out more ...
4. Windows Explorer = Thunar File Manager, find out more ...

I'm talking about nothing but very basic & general textual help after someone clicks on find out more (or whatever would appear there). Every Linux machine that I install for a new user has 16 single page (not in single-space either) PDF files. Since I teach everyone to treat their file manager as the most important tool of all, there's also a folder entitled 00 HELP in the documents folder. That folder contains those 16 files and when they log into Linux, the file manager with that particular folder already open, appears automatically. It's a much more subtle approach to helping someone because they're not being stabbed in the eye with a manual ... OMG it's a friggen book ... that contains a glossary with dozens of scary pages. It allows users to better pick & choose on the quick, followed by receiving a single page that can be read easily, with minimal time required.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:49 am**

Personally speaking, I think attempts to show that linux = windows eg your

point 4. Windows Explorer = Thunar File Manager, find out more ...

is doomed to failure since Windows Explorer is not like Thunar File Manager and pretending that it is will serve to confuse rather than educate, however well intentioned.

Window users coming to linux need to know that linux is NOT windows. There are some similarities, that's all. That doesn't mean linux is difficult, just different and users should EXPECT it to be different. Those users that 'get this' will stay with linux, those that don't will give up.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:01 am**

How to install/remove programs: MXPI; mention the Popular Apps tab for a curated list of useful applications; [maybe a brief mention of Synaptic?]

Updating the system: MX updater, where the notification icon can be found, what to do when updates are indicated, right-clicking to get the settings window.

Plus: maybe touch on the MX-Updater entry in whisker menu, to re-enable MX-Updater should it not appear on the panel notification area

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:23 am**

This is by no means something that I would suggest using as it serves strictly to show another method of how a welcome window can look. Today everyone is into pretty pictures, symbols, etc., regardless if people are using Linux, Windows, Mac, or Android. Graphics pull people in, it's as simple as that and I'm sure that just about everyone in the Ad industry will agree with that. If Graphics work, don't be afraid to use them. I don't mind greyscale, but does it have to be so square without any fun in it?

Speaking strictly from a user point of view like my wife and my brother, both of whom will *NEVER* use a terminal, for people like that you have to have something that makes them feel at ease about a replacement for Windows Explorer which they may have been using for many years on their Windows machines. Like it or not, in MX Linux Thunar happens to be that replacement. Windows Explorer is the default user file manager for Windows XP, 2000, NT, Vista, Windows7, and that's exactly how I make use of Thunar each and every day on my desktop. Granted, Thunar is so much more and it can do so much more, but for those people who are used to Windows Explorer and strictly point 'n' click performance, Thunar will never be anything more than a file manager, until those people accept that it's okay to broaden their horizons ... on their own.

MX Willkommen_Start.jpg

Again, that image is nothing more than a rudimentary idea which could be expanded upon, fleshed out with more detail, or be ignored altogether.

EDIT: This here is a perfect example of today's "professional" computer user, who would have been much better off with some "windows understandable" advice, or better yet, a laptop with MX or Mint that was installed for this guy by someone with a tiny bit more computer knowledge. I deal with these types every week ...
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/switc ... 37406.html

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:35 am**

i was trying bunsenlabs yesterday and they have a conky which is one of the first things you see when you try the live usb and this conky has some information to it. for example, super key + T = open terminal, things like that. i found that very interesting and very good idea.
here is a screenshot they have

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:31 am**

Grampa used to say, "If all else fails read the directions." So you KNOW I didn't read the manual. These days if there's a problem it's, "Google it." MX just needs it's own AI bot to serve up the answer.

A problem I just solved in MX was, How do I restore the backup of my panel configuration. The following steps were involved:
1 Key word search "panel" in the manual. Fail
2 MX forum search. Fail
3 Internet search. Fail
4 Help button on MX Tweak. Win!

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:01 am**

a Quick Start from where?

- getting MX and installing it ?.
- customizing an already installed MX ?

that's really Two Documents . . . and some N00Bs would probably need Both.
:)

starting with the increased difficulty in Dual_Boot with the latest version of the Windows System:
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic. ... 2&t=163126
maybe a shorter version of that ?.

then another Quick Start on How to Use the MX system. .. . using the Basic Use - section of the MX Users Manual.
- which most probably what was originally being suggested .

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:13 am**

As stated in OP, it's to be an item on the Welcome screen.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:20 am**

A quick start from the welcome window once MX has been installed. Look at the image above. Something right at the very top of the welcome window, which can be clicked on by people who don't like to read, for some very brief yet useful information. A window similar to the welcome window, with 8 - 10 quick links in text only form. Using your start button, Obtaining more favorites with right click, How to customize your side/bottom panel, Helpful tips for using Thunar, Return to welcome screen, etc. etc.

It truly amazes me how little technically inclined people on forums such as this, understand about people who just want to point and click, period, with as little as possible reading required. I deal with these people each and every week, month after month, year after year. Today, most regular users who are not technically inclined simply want either pretty pictures or for things to work with point 'n' click only. The ones that you can get to read, most of them are "over-burdened" when the amount of text passes the 1 page mark. They're still all (presumably) good people who can do great work with computers, but it takes a little effort to push them in the right direction, to be receptive to actually learning a little bit more.

So give them the welcome window, then a top choice there for quick n dirty lazy folks info., while keeping the wiki and handbook available at the same time. That way, with a little luck, if the user is satisified with the quick info., then perhaps later they'll be more receptive to reading information from the manual and the wiki as well.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:48 am**

...once MX has been installed

Or running Live.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:24 am**

Sorry, you're right of course.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:38 pm**

anticapitalista wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:49 amWindow users coming to linux need to know that linux is NOT windows. There are some similarities, that's all. That doesn't mean linux is difficult, just different and users should EXPECT it to be different. Those users that 'get this' will stay with linux, those that don't will give up.

Oldie but goodie:

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

Clearly, software designed around the needs of the first user will not be suitable for the second, and vice versa. So how can any software be called "user-friendly", if we all have different needs?

The simple answer: User-friendly is a misnomer, and one that makes a complex situation seem simple.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:55 pm**

uncle mark wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:38 pm
anticapitalista wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:49 amWindow users coming to linux need to know that linux is NOT windows. There are some similarities, that's all. That doesn't mean linux is difficult, just different and users should EXPECT it to be different. Those users that 'get this' will stay with linux, those that don't will give up.
Oldie but goodie:

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

Clearly, software designed around the needs of the first user will not be suitable for the second, and vice versa. So how can any software be called "user-friendly", if we all have different needs?

The simple answer: User-friendly is a misnomer, and one that makes a complex situation seem simple.

Very good article. Thanks for posting. Should be read by every Windows user coming to Linux.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:21 am**

Well, in this day and age I have to pretty much disagree with that article. As far as I'm concerned, that was written back in the day when people moved to Linux out of mild or blind curiosity, moving to an OS with an iron clad reputation, having expectations of doing everything Windows related while simultanously (potentially) saving a ton of money, and so on. Hence, back in the day from which Linux and most epecially the user desktop experience have massively evolved. I teach people that there is no difference for general and even most professional users anymore ... and I back this up with hands on proof.

I have a dual-boot Windows7 and MX Linux machine for people to play around with. Windows7 gets booted up first. Most people whom I deal with have some computer experience, primarily with WindowsXP, WinVista, and Windows7 ... all of which use a Start Button, a Start Menu, a Start Panel/Taskbar, the ability to have Favorites in the Panel and/or the Start Menu, and a File Manager (Windows Explorer) for exploring the contents of their mounted Media, regardless if mounted externally, on stick, or interrnally.

By default ... XFCE has all of that ... and MX Linux is more like Windows7 (by appearance) than any other distro/desktop out there (IMO). I'm talking specifically about the comfort level about the look & feel of a visual setup that the user experiences after logging in.

I'm not talking about gamers - I refuse to work with them, period - and I'm not talking about people (the vast minority) who must have access to very special Windows Software in order to earn a living.

Most of the people that I deal with want to enjoy all or some of ...
Working with Microsoft Office, OpenOffice, or LibreOffice - Which they can do on both setups that I show them.
Perhaps they love tinkering with the Media Center - So I show them VLC, SMplayer, Handbrake, and OpenShot.
Others like access to various Windows Tools - related to things like Xfburn, Varying calculators, Thunar, Filezilla, etc.
Some people just want their LiveMail or Outlook as well as decent Browsing - such as with Thunderbird, Firefox, Opera, etc.
(BTW: many Windows people know about or use VLC, Gimp, Thunderbird, Firefox, LibreOffice, Filezilla, etc. on Windows already)

Today, I unabashedly tell people that the Linux distributions which I show them, have so much in common with Windows that it's ridiculous. And you know why I do that? I'll tell you why. Because so far, in 5+ years of helping people convert to Linux, never once was someone forced to use the console because with a little research there was always a fix to be found, for the simple issues that arose, which could actually be fixed with a point 'n' click solution.

You know what I perceive to be the biggest stopper for people switching to Linux (and mind you I'm saying this as someone who's almost 60 years old). The biggest stopper or turn-off is directly related to all of those old-time long-time (decades) Linux users who simply never evolved themselves with the times of Point 'n' Click technology. It's like that on every Linux forum that I ever participated on. Most of these old-timers simply refuse to accept the fact that most generic & basic professional computer users, will never have the need to do anything on a console. My wife has been using Linux for 6+ years and never ever uses the console. My brother for 3+ years, and he never uses the console either. When I present a Linux system to someone that's never worked with Linux before, they are simply astonished at the many many similarities (XFCE desktop) between Windows & Linux.
Combine that with a dozen or so simply written single page help files, and "my people" are happy indefinitely with their Linux.

To me, today, as a general & professional desktop user ... Linux is indeed very much so, (like) Windows!

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:20 am**

For me the biggest problem is understandable manuals/programs,most are OLD and do not work on this version of linux.
That why the mx forum is a great place,help is always there ! chapeau. One other problem is WC programs that fork to work under linux, the programs mostly work but there help and/or forums are mostly WC pfff bad, like lmms the do not set there OS in the subject ,so i do not look there anymore.
Just my 2 cts

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:26 am**

I still think it is a valuable article. Yes, the desktop looks and functions essentially the same but when it comes to software installation a Windows user needs to completely forget the Windows model. I experienced this 20 years ago when I adopted Linux and it is still true today.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:34 am**

so, i installed bunsenlabs on a usb stick and i realised that they have a welcome script. that was nice, i think you have to check it if not already. at least something like that would prevent some users to break their system by adding ppa's, since they have a warning about it and i have seen such threads here.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:55 am**

I know this probably sounds ridiculous to some people, but I believe in making everything point 'n' click dummy-proof. For one thing, we live in Germany and I'm the only knowledgable Computer/Linux user that I know of in our area, no kidding (we don't live in a large city). Consequently, there's only one of me to deal with dozens of clients who use my Linux setups. If those weren't dummy proof, I'd probably lose my mind with support issues. But as it stands, and I kid you not, I can't even recall the last time that anyone asked me for any assistance. And even though everyone automatically receives links to this forum in their help files, somehow I have a feeling that nobody has experienced any significant problems yet, which might prompt them to come to this forum. Not bad, eh?

On the other hand though, richb. If you're the one who's doing the installing, then it's only fair that you're the one who may have to deal with borked setups. In my case, I'm the one who's doing all of the installing in advance though, so for me "dummy-proof" works perfectly, providing me and everyone else with piece of mind. The biggest user problem that I encounter, have encountered for a number years, is the lack of willingness by users to read more than a page of information at a time (preferably no reading at all).

That's why I think a "quick 'n' dirty" here are some basic know-hows quick start from the welcome screen would be so hepful for new users.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:16 am**

The biggest user problem that I encounter, have encountered for a number years, is the lack of willingness by users to read more than a page of information at a time (preferably no reading at all).

There is certainly a whole group like that, only question for us is: do we want to bring everything to that level? The big Linux OSs have huge resources and are already doing that.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:26 am**

It would seem one solution does not fit all. The user you describe is well served by point and click and do not bother me with learning anything about the OS. But there is another user who is not a Linux coder or developer, but does not want to blindly follow point and click without knowing what is behind it. Distro developers decide whether to cater to the one or the other, or a third option, a middle ground. I think MX has, to date anyway, chosen the third option.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:42 am**

Alright, let's see how I got involved with MX Linux? I was searching Online for the fastest, easy to use Linux OS out of the box. I wasn't looking for myself because I was actually pretty pleased with Mint 17 XFCE and Mint Cinnamon, but I was looking for something that I could use on older computers as I like to rebuild those, without looking for a Linux that can be used specifically on old machines. It's not good enough to work, it also needs to be fast, for anyone to be impressed by "old" hardware. So I run across various top 10 lists with Linux distros, most of which I'd tried in the past and knew I had no intrerest in. Until finally, out of all of those lists I noticed that three of them mentioned MX Linux 15 or MX Linux 16, which I'd never heard of before. It was #3 in one of those lists. Then I ran across a review by Dedoimedo. That, combined with the fact that MX Linux uses strictly the XFCE desktop, prompted me to get started with MX.

Mind you that at that time I already had dozens of people converted to Mint and that I had already personally written oodles of help files, etc. But I was looking for something different without exactly knowing what that was. Certainly something that felt like it was running with the wind, right out of the box. Not just fast, but fast and free. I dunno, can't really explain it.

I've been a professional computer user for close to 30 years, a Linux user close to 10 years now. I used MX Linux for the first couple of weeks and simply couldn't believe how impressively everything seemed to just flow, and how Windows7 like, this MX was. That was my first impression of MX and I felt so strongly about it that, for the first time in years, I felt that something had been accomplished here which deserved a donation since that was all that I could think of to do, while grinning from ear to ear about the fluidness of this OS. We're not money people, rich by any means, but that's how utterly impressed I was. And when I found out how easy it was to create a re-usable snapshot, to transfer entire setups from one machine to another, that's when I decided that no Linux in the World was better suited for noobs and Windows switchers, than MX Linux. I could simply update help files and such from snapshot to snapshot, burn the isos on a stick, or even a 32bit version on a DVD. Hah, I could finally build something that *ANYONE* could use !!! (Sorry for the long windedness).

So anyway, based on my experiences, based on the increases of monthly sign-ups here, and based on the rankings from distrowatch, it honestly seems to me as though there's not much choice in the matter. You guys have created something incredible and people are beginning to notice it more and more. Part of that obviously results in more people from the general masses, starting to use this wonderful OS. And in order not to go nuts with potential support issues, it only works to the developers benefit to create an OS that's as simple as possible to use, with some simple help steps here and there, to provide people with an even more awesome experience.
If an OS is as good as MX, then why not make it even easier to use? Is there a logical reason why not?

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:49 am**

If an OS is as good as MX, then why not make it even easier to use? Is there a logical reason why not?

Easier to use, yes, dumbed down to just point and click? no. Installed with jut basic applications that do not appeal to the advanced duser?, no.
MX is simple enough to use for the novice, yet still appeals to more advanced users which is the sweet spot in my opinion.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:06 am**

OK guys, back to the topic please.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:12 am**

How to create a panel launcher.

May be too advanced for a Quick Start Guide.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:37 am**

As I've said here (and elsewhere) many many times, the best prospect to convert to desktop Linux is the least sophisticated user imaginable. So-called self-proclaimed Windows "power users" are a waste of time.

I've done a dozen or more conversions. I vet those candidates carefully, the least savvy the better. I also do the installs and setups myself (in nearly every case Mint KDE) and set up the desktop and menu and Panel and such to mimic XP/W7 as closely as possible. I give them a brief walkthrough, clicking on the various icons and menu buttons, and turn them loose. I never hear from them again. I have not had a single one come back to me with problems or complaints. The option to reinstall Windows is always part of the deal; no one has taken me up on that.

The MX Community should be applauded for its efforts to provide a full featured, point 'n' click experience out of the box, with support and documentation second to none. That said, there is a point of diminishing returns. I sometimes wonder if the energy would be better spent refining the product instead of catering to the lowest common denominator.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:45 am**

I don't think so at all. Everyone whom I know expects a little eye-candy and more importantly, how to change existing eye candy if they don't like the initially presented setup. My simple, quick 'n' dirty help files include:

Automatic updates, how they work, plus 6 small graphics from beginning to ending updates.
The start menu (MX button) with, from myself customized, favorites, and how to use the menu.
Setting up or Altering your panel - which includes pulling existing objects into the panel.
Changing your desktop background, from within the settings as well as from the desktop.
The file manager (Thunar), opening all of your personal files, regardless of type, from there.
Changing your mouse cursor to match theme colors, disabling the touch-pad on laptops.
Playing around with the pre-installed themes, hints & tips.
Alternative Software such as LibreOffice, GIMP, VLC, and hints for usage.
One of my newest files ... Why MX, and not Linux Mint, Ubuntu, or others.
Careful, there are apps which will help you destroy your MX setup (Synaptic).

There are other files too, of course. My setups are different from straight MX though. For one, I keep the update box hidden until updates are actually available by default, and when you click the start button, my version of favorites includes at least 12 to 15 items for anyone, including professional users. Some of my descriptions have been changed to make more sense. Xfburn, an app to burn CDs and DVDs. That's great for all of us, but not for someone who doesn't even know what burning a CD or a DVD means. Even worse, SMplayer = A great mplayer front-end. Seriously? Nobody knows what that means, except someone who already knows what mplayer is. Plenty of other scratch your head descriptions like that. When my users hover over a fairly common, widely used app symbol, they know exactly what they're getting into before clicking on it. I stop them in their tracks, from opening "stuff" without really knowing what that stuff does.
That's IMO step one in the prevention of borking your own setup!

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:50 am**

Again: we're looking for ideas for a document for the current MX Linux.

These ideas are well worth considering, but not in this thread.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:56 am**

richb wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:49 am
If an OS is as good as MX, then why not make it even easier to use? Is there a logical reason why not?
Easier to use, yes, dumbed down to just point and click? no. Installed with jut basic applications that do not appeal to the advanced duser?, no.
MX is simple enough to use for the novice, yet still appeals to more advanced users which is the sweet spot in my opinion.

Dumbing down and making things that will always exist via the console anyway, easier to use, are not the same thing. Linux is Linux and anyone who wants to code, to develop, to dive into the guts of the system, will always be able to do so. That will never change. But I'm talking about making MX easier to use for all of those people who have no interest in learning what's behind the curtain. For those people, there's still a lot more that can be done. And BTW, if all of us didn't enjoy being dummied down a bit ... then there wouldn't be any desktop environments for Linux in the first place, right?

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:00 pm**

Jerry3904 wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:50 am Again: we're looking for ideas for a document for the current MX Linux.

These ideas are well worth considering, but not in this thread.

I thought that's what the post above that one was. Sorry if that wasn't the case. I had listed numerous help documents which can be created, in order to be accessed directly from the welcome screen. I provided those examples as ideas what kind of documents could be included behind the welcome menu, with a click of a button, directly from the welcome menu. I thought that was the start document that you were referring to?

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:20 pm**

I just lose track sometimes.

For now, we only have the resources to produce a single document. Once that is done, it will likely generate multiple documents that may look like what you are talking about.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:22 pm**

@HessenZone,
You have done a very good job of making MX Linux useful for Windows users new to Linux.
I think what you are doing is laudable.
I hope you will continue doing and sharing it.
MX Linux does not have to change to adapt to you, you are adapting MX to your needs.

That said, MX Linux tends toward incremental refinements, generally.
I'm sure some of your refinements will make it into MX.
MX is not and I do not believe ever will nor need to be
a newbie distro.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:18 pm**

We want to develop a document that would link off MX Welcome (alongside the new FAQs) that would guide the new user through the 10-12 most common procedures users carry out after installation, and are looking for Community help to come up with a list.

Regardless of its curated content, adding a (another) new static document won't do much to advance the status quo.

Let's take a visual stroll...

v---- note the evolution of the Mint welcome device, across versions:

gitlab.com/linuxlite/[...]usr/bin/lite-welcome
✓ licensed GPL v3 (and no "branding" copyright is emblazoned within the GUI)
✓ is not "just a document viewer" ~~ embedded hyperlinks can launch programs, execute commands
✓ localization strings can be easily managed, collaboratively (pairs of json strings, edit in place at gitlab/github, via browser UI)
✓ flexible delivery of content (via deb pkg update) adjust hierarchy, add content nodes, revise content

video: Linux Lite 4.0 - Review & Critique - Disservice To New Users (cannot please everyone)
related point: As critically mentioned in the LL review video, a UI chock full of odd-named, custom, in-house tools
accompanied by arbitrary icons and minimal descriptions... does not serve a welcoming presentation.

[ placeholder: screenshot of MX Tools UI ]

a generic list of getting-settled-in tasks:
-- install drivers (DisplayLink drivers for USB docking station)
-- find-n-use GRUB Customizer ~~~ related: Get information n details (UUID) about HD/SSD partitions
-- adjust newtork connection(s)
-- pairup bluetooth devices
-- adjust mouse/trackpad/TrackPoint speed n sensitivity
-- understand pre-installed apps (goofy linux names vs function/purpose of each) and find installable alternative apps
-- adjust brightness, colors, theming, fonts (? HiDPI scaling ...panel layout h/v)
-- check n adjust sound

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:30 pm**

Good suggestions.

Yeah, Mint really gets the gorgeous visuals...

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:44 pm**

I'm a bit late to the thread (I just began using MX only last week):

Not really a quick start up file but a suggestion to ease new users comming from Windows:
Have a "install new software" link on the desktop.
Also move the Software part of the MX menu nearer to the top. I'm a long time Linux user, I've been using antiX for over a year and I kid you not that I stared at the screen for almost a minute before realizing where I had to click to install new software.

Also: rename "Package installer" to something more user friendly (btw: most of MX tools menu is not translated into my language (I could help with that) and that may cause even more confusion to non English speaking users.
Most windows users don't have a clue what packages are, but they do know what "App" "Applications", "Programs" or "Software" means...

Some presentation referring to what people talked in this thread before (what the drive and partition names mean, what a file manager is and how to edit a office document or play a video or music file and how to get on-line ... That covers about 90% of the more common uses to a PC.

Thanks to Valve's Steam Proton "revolution" you could add on the presentation/quick start file an entry about that Gaming (explaining how to install Steam and what a wine/proton is and that it's not 100% efficient running windows games on Linux and that that's not MX fault...)

P.

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:30 pm**

Good suggestions, thanks. On translation, please send a PM to Old Giza, who oversees that area--we'd be glad to have the help!

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:09 pm**

FI: For "Quick Start" document, app, etc I now use synapse.
http://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=46226

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:20 pm**

I'm not sure whether this has been mentioned, so forgive me if I'm repeating this.

I think it would be sensible to mention the following from the manual:

SSDs
Increasingly, machines may have an internal SSD: a solid state drive that has no moving components. These drives tend to accumulate blocks of data that are no longer considered in use, slowing down this very fast drive. To prevent this from happening, MX Linux runs a TRIM operation on a weekly schedule that you can view by opening the file /etc/cron.weekly/fstrim-mx.

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:53 pm**

Richard wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:22 pm MX is not and I do not believe ever will nor need to be
a newbie distro.

My feeling is that this is a bit contradictory with all the so easy to use tools the devs have came up with.
I even think that from the point of view of ease of use MX already is a newbie distro. To become a proper newbie distro MX would just need a sort of "Quick Start" document, as suggested, and a short introduction to Linux in general and to Debian in particular, since MX gets its foundations on both. Short info, though, probably best placed at the beginning of the Quick Start document. For instance, regarding Linux a short explanation of what are deamons and what they do, including for people to easily understand MX position regarding systemd stated in the manual (the position is clear, but I'm not so sure about the systemd "thing" - the fact that's a demon and what a demon is). Regarding Debian, some short info about packages and about the Debian "distro management system" (stable, testing, etc).
MXPI is very simple and intuitive to use, a typical newbie app IMO, but whoever comes from Windows directly to MX shouldn't be left without a very brief explanation of the repos matter.
I don't think it makes much sense to "chase people away" just for lack of some basic and quick start information readily available.

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:10 pm**

This is all in the Manual

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:58 pm**

I've been working on this page the past few days (with ongoing editing and streamlining) bringing together many of the desktop and general tweaks that typically occur post-install. I'm sure there are a few others I've overlooked and will edit into the mix but for now, in somewhat incomplete form:
http://mxlinuxguide.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_64.html

I'll probably include a page index and revise images with the view to making a *gif slide show (animation) with captions when I run out of new tips.

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:59 pm**

Jerry3904 wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:10 pm This is all in the Manual

+1

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:37 pm**

I personally don't have an SSD in my PC so trimming serves me no purpose, but I feel a brief mention in the quick start document would be helpful, even a simple line like "MX Linux runs a weekly TRIM operation on devices which have an internal SSD" would inform people of this functionality, and this would eliminate unnecessary forum questions.

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:39 pm**

Zeh:
My feeling is that this is a bit contradictory with all the so easy to use tools the devs have came up with. I even think that from the point of view of ease of use MX already is a newbie distro. To become a proper newbie distro MX would just need a sort of "Quick Start" document, as suggested, and a short introduction to Linux in general and to Debian in particular, since MX gets its foundations on both.

To me, "newbie distro" implies "beginner distro" which is my point of departure.

Yes, the idea of this discussion is to improve our Quick Start page.
The biggest problem is not just to have one but to have it be read.
Many good suggestions have come up in this thread.

Jerry3904, Gordon, Old Giza and others have worked hard and for many hours preparing
and maintaining the MX User Manual. We even make an effort to provide
various translations to aid Newbies from other languages.

I do not believe that MX is a newcomer's distro.
I believe that MX Linux is already easy to use.
I believe that MX has a great manual that is continually being expanded and improved.
I agree that MX needs a *great* Quick Start page or pages.
Maybe we could give First Boot a timed, inescapable reading of the Quick Start page. :)

MX is a great place for new users after they have acquired some experience
and knowledge with one or several of the distros mentioned in the Beginners article.
There are many satisfied Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Zorin and Elementary users.

In my mind, a newbie distro is something like these distros for Beginners,
and I see no reason for MX Linux to jump into this puddle:

I could be wrong. I have been wrong before --more than once.

From the Beginner Linux article, https://itsfoss.com/best-linux-beginners/:

Linux is more than an OS. It’s an idea where everybody grows together
and there’s something for everybody. We have already covered:

Best Linux distributions for Windows users https://itsfoss.com/windows-like-linux-distributions/
Best lightweight Linux distros
Best Linux distributions for hacking
Best Linux distributions for gaming
Best Linux distributions for privacy and anonymity
Best Linux distributions that look like MacOS

In addition to that, there are distributions that cater to the needs of newcomers
especially. So here are a few such Linux distros for beginners. You can watch it
in a video and subscribe to our YouTube channel for more Linux related videos.

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:02 pm**

Richard - I agree with some of your thoughts and comments. If you have been brought up on a diet of MS Windows, changing to Linux at Win 7, then I would not consider you to be a newbie and the introduction to MX should not be much of a shock. A person with experience only in the later MS products, or none at all, may need more help. I know I have been banging on about info' being available in the MX Manual but it certainly is not a quick start document - 150 pages of detailed information may well frighten some potential users from reading it. As is obvious from a trawl through the MX forum, there are some experienced users who do not read the manual either, finding it easier to pose their questions on the forum.

I guess that I was lucky in this respect. Several years ago and wanting to find out something about Linux I saw the local User group advertised, went along to a monthly meeting and met Mike Pav. He introduced me to Mepis then guided me through the installation and sguided me through the teething pains of a new system. When MX came along a few years later transition was easy.

Was thinking about that introduction today and about how someone without a nearby user group would get started. So I entered MX-17 into my browser. Up came a
lengthy list of possibilities, most of them about golf clubs. There was one titled MX 17 | MX Community that looked promising, but was not. The title of MX Linux MX Community was much better, with an introductory page and links to downloads, other MX sites etc.etc. A lot of valuable information for a newcomer. There are a couple of references to earlier versions of MX, that might be of concern. The Manual does get a mention, under the Help heading. Yes, the Manual is well Indexed but if newbies do not really know what they are looking for then more assistance may be required.

After reading much of this thread again, and thinking about it, perhaps all that is needed in a Quick Start document is a list of references to Sections of the Manual with a minimum of extra explanation if needed.

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:18 pm**

Having watched the development of MX tools and tweaks it is clear that many focus upon desktop functionality and key system settings, making it easier to get up and running. This is on the back of an excellent installation experience that accommodates a vast array of hardware, making it stand out from other Linus distributions.

With the xfce environment that may be new to someone first trying MX, coming from MS or other Linux systems, some introduction to common settings and options for Grub, the Panel, Thunar and Whisker Menu seem obvious, so users can settle in' with some personalised functionality and ergonomics. This is where I focus most of my attention.

What I have observed in teaching a friend to use MX I installed on their laptop, and in hearing of others via the forum, similarly assisting family and friends,
is that MX suits a wide range of users and technical skills. Casual users can easily update, configure and get on with routine browsing, multimedia and office tasks.
Others with more ambitious needs can extend MX's underlying capacity by delving into more advanced applications.

The other strength of MX is the documentation, augmented by video guides, a great forum and social media presence.

People absorb things differently so having a range of material aimed at beginners through to advanced users in different formats and languages seems a good thing. Other language support and blogs are valuable features of MX and should not be overlooked.

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:55 am**

Gordon Cooper wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:02 pm...

After reading much of this thread again, and thinking about it, perhaps all that is needed in a Quick Start document is a list of references to Sections of the Manual with a minimum of extra explanation if needed.

That is helpful but perhaps will be better within the context of an introductory slideshow that pops up the first time one logs in, and ends with the current Welcome Window.

Slideshow should be more of a "where do I go to find this?" tour, like pointing out:

1. the start button to find apps, pointing out the search field
2. MX tweak in start menu (called "whisker menu") to change panel orientation (vert, horiz, top, bottom) and themes/icons
3. XFCE settings manager (point to icon at the top of the whisker menu) for various settings - explain these are general settings that come with the desktop interface that MX uses
4. MX Tools in whisker menu, which is MX's own custom tools to do many useful tasks and customisations, and that MX tweak is one of these tools, as is the....
5. MX Packageinstaller for installing software. Suggest they search first under Popular Apps tab for a list of curated apps in different categories, as installation from there is quick and for some apps will include certain necessary pre-configuration steps as well.
6. the MX Manual, for detailed information of the OS, but perhaps point to a guide [chapter zero of manual?] with a list of sections to read first, per Gordon Cooper's suggestion.
7. the browser (FF) icon on the left panel - they can use it to access the MX forum and Wiki for even more help, as well as online version of Manual
8. End with MX Welcome screen.

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:28 am**

One thing I can't understand is, why is the standard firewall switched off by default?

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:47 am**

Jerry3904 wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:10 pm This is all in the Manual

Maybe with the exception of a little further background info on GNU/Linux and Debian (since these are the foundations of MX), you’re absolutely right, it’s all in the manual, which is one of MX pluses. Nevertheless, the issue of initial support info arises from time to time.

So, it seems that there is the need of figuring out why people don’t seem to make use of the manual, even when it’s the first button to be seen in the MX Welcome screen. Could it be that people just run away from anything called “manual”, for it giving the idea of a big boring document?

Maybe the MX Welcome screen is the type of quick start “document” one poster was looking for (everything is there: manual, wiki, tools – including the MXPI, the type of tool he was looking for), but for some reason he didn’t come across it. If so, what could be the reason(s) that make people overlook the MX Welcome screen? And, if people overlook the MX Welcome screen, linking yet another document to it won't solve the issue.

Regarding the 10-12 most common procedures people carry out after installation, they may already be in the manual, Section 3, Configuration. Maybe it would suffice to have the manual's table of contents expanded to include the sub-sections, so that people can easily see what's in the manual and from there access what they're looking for with just one click.

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:39 am**

Adding to my previous post.

Zeh wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:47 am Maybe with the exception of a little further background info on GNU/Linux and Debian and antix [not only because it's fair, but also to provide some more advertising for antix, because it undoubtedly deserves it] (since these are the foundations of MX) (...)
(...)
(...) if people overlook the MX Welcome screen, linking yet another document to it won't solve the issue. Maybe adding a 'MX Help' entry to the Start menu linked to the MX Welcome screen?
(...) Maybe it would suffice to have the manual's table of contents expanded to include the sub-sections (...) Having a section table of contents in each section as well, listing the section's sub-sections for the same purpose of getting to desired subject with just one click

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:17 am**

Zeh wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:47 am (...)Maybe adding a 'MX Help' entry to the Start menu linked to the MX Welcome screen?

I think if you want it visible and easily discoverable, the title has to be more explicit, e.g. "Introduction for Newcomers".

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:28 am**

asqwerth wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:55 am That is helpful but perhaps will be better within the context of an introductory slideshow that pops up the first time one logs in, and ends with the current Welcome Window.

Slideshow should be more of a "where do I go to find this?" tour, like pointing out...

This would be a good idea for both new users and people who are reviewing MX.

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:33 am**

(OT)
If I would like to suggest some change in the manual (from beginner view point, something I still don't understand even after reading it more than once - so some other beginners may have similar problem), where could I do this, does someone have link handy?

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:59 pm**

This animated Gif is 1.6MB so I provide a link to Drive.

It highlights various MX features with relatively concise captions, to help someone new to MX and xfce to locate key features and settings.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=17uIKR ... tu9GEsyyLR

Best saved locally and opened with a web browser for simple viewing.

Nothing too fancy with no transitions, with a typo or two, but I wonder if it covers enough to get a new MX user somewhat up and running?

* I have noticed the Windows Buttons button in MX Tweak too since...

Posted: **Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:13 am**

tascoast wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:59 pm This animated Gif is 1.6MB so I provide a link to Drive.

It highlights various MX features with relatively concise captions, to help someone new to MX and xfce to locate key features and settings.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=17uIKR ... tu9GEsyyLR

Best saved locally and opened with a web browser for simple viewing.

Nothing too fancy with no transitions, with a typo or two, but I wonder if it covers enough to get a new MX user somewhat up and running?

* I have noticed the Windows Buttons button in MX Tweak too since...

That's very nice! However I feel this jumps straight into certain tools/settings (why is MX Boot Repair the first topic?) that a newcomer might not even know how to find.

My proposal just 1 page back would have started from a user's first encounter with MX, as a sort of tour around the desktop. Parts of your tutorial will certainly slot in nicely, e.g. MX Tweak for panel and the single/double mouse click thing; Thunar - stop expanding columns, desktop background (the file manager launcher on the panel can be pointed out).

Slideshow should be more of a "where do I go to find this?" tour, like pointing out:

1. the start button to find apps, pointing out the search field
2. MX tweak in start menu (called "whisker menu") to change panel orientation (vert, horiz, top, bottom) and themes/icons
3. XFCE settings manager (point to icon at the top of the whisker menu) for various settings - explain these are general settings that come with the desktop interface that MX uses
4. MX Tools in whisker menu, which is MX's own custom tools to do many useful tasks and customisations, and that MX tweak is one of these tools, as is the....
5. MX Packageinstaller for installing software. Suggest they search first under Popular Apps tab for a list of curated apps in different categories, as installation from there is quick and for some apps will include certain necessary pre-configuration steps as well.
6. the MX Manual, for detailed information of the OS, but perhaps point to a guide [chapter zero of manual?] with a list of sections to read first, per Gordon Cooper's suggestion.
7. the browser (FF) icon on the left panel - they can use it to access the MX forum and Wiki for even more help, as well as online version of Manual
8. End with MX Welcome screen.

From there, the user would then know that they can find the MX Boot Repair in MX Tools, what the whisker menu is, etc, and the rest of your tutorial will be the next step.

Posted: **Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:58 am**

I did order things in a 'first boot' fashion and can see a more general to specific style being more engaging initially.

Adding am/pm to the clock might also be good.

It isn't that hard to make an animation or rearrange things. I did once do this using full screen shots and a bit more on demonstrating Panel and menu functions, adding icons etc.

Thinking of the bigger graphic file this produces led me to adopt a more compact method this time. Elements of both styles might eventually be desirable.

Precisely how such an intro would be used is the other question, with regard to final rendering.

*Some of the content here was a guide and I did mention the search part and Manual, before the Blogger font face started getting cranky with me.
http://mxlinuxguide.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_64.html
I'll do a revision once I read through your notes and comments.

Posted: **Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:54 am**

@ tascoast - using a presentation very much like the gif you made, playing during the install or just before or after the install, for example would be nice.
But, once again, most (new) users that need a slideshow/ quick start file probably won't be thinking about Grub recovery... Maybe starting with something more basic like (in no particular order):
1- how to use the menu and how to find applications (and help knowing what the main apps do)
2- clicking Firefox to get on-line (some very basic windows users don't even know that any other browsers exist for a PC, other than the ones that come pre installed on Windows...) also how to connect to a WiFi network
3- using the file explorer to access and use music and video files (referring to VLC as the default media player)
4- same for office files (warning about very good but not full compatibility with MS Office products- it's not the scope of a quick start but you can mention MS Office on-line [ I did a how to over here: https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php ... ce#p462125 ]. At least it has the exact User Interface new users are used to. Not for a Quick Start but handy for newbie users- a quick explanation somewhere on the Libreoffice MX menu about how to change the UI to the "ribbon" most new MS office people are now used to and love)
5- Once again, one of the complains people talk about on-line: software compatibility, in particular Games - show the games that come preinstalled - Solitaire is probably the most used computer game ever and a version of it comes with MX- and of course Steam and how to enable Proton for all games (that's complicated because Valve could change that any time)

Then Troubleshooting: installing drivers, helping with grub problems, how to create and use backups, help with dual boot- once again that's a though one- most people think that computers have only 2 operating systems, Windows for "PC's" and Mac OS for "Macs". And their minds would be blown by the idea that they can have multiple OS boot options...)

A bit off topic: I'm trying to recall why did I begin trying new OS other than Ms's... And apply that to new users. I believe that I grew more worried about using pirated software and began using free and legal OS's and Office suits. Most people don't worry about that because:
1.1- most desktops and laptops already come with a legal (and "Free", because it's already included on the cost people pay) Ms Windows OS, and
1.2- MS windows "new" tactic of first offering their W10 as a free upgrade and later of offering it as a kind of "Freeware"- WinRar style- people can download, install and use it for free without activating it and have basically no other problem than a polite warning on the lower right side of the screen (but still it's a non compliance of it's terms of use).
2- most people don't really care about the legality of what's on their computers.

So I guess there are only a few kinds of users a Linux OS can appeal to: (idealist) people worried about being spied by big companies like MS and Google; tech geeks; people with older hardware that does not play well with other OS; curious people that like to try new stuff or have a system than they can run from a USB stick in case their main system crashes (hey I'm included on all these categories)

P.

Posted: **Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:41 am**

My first frustration with Linux was, when (on Mint) I copied some files from one computer to another and user names were different. Of course I could not access the files and I didn't know why. I remember my frustration then, "why Linux has to be so complicated" ;-)

MX setting in Thunar: "Ownership for User" may be worth mentioning for all coming from windows.

Posted: **Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:33 am**

I like the idea of a wallpaper on just one desktop. The other desktop(s) could have whatever? on them.

On the one with the helpful wallpaper would be the very basics that a new-ish to Linux user may want to refer to & to also refresh their memory with from time to time.

After whatever period of time, the user would be able to easily clear the image from having the job of being a wallpaper. Though having it still sitting in the ~/Pictures directory wouldn't hurt.

Really, if it came down to it, you could have a number of wallpapers going from the very basics & each moving on through slightly more advanced, or at least wider areas of basic usage.

A user would be able to use multiple reference wallpapers at once, or, move on up the line as it suits them.

I may get around to making such a thing for myself, as my memory is gradually slipping away, day by day...

Something that just occurred to me after I just saved this page: is that if the information was provided to the user, that showed them how to (step by step) create their own wallpapers.

Me, I'm a practical person with nary an artistic bone in my body. So I can see me writing down what I want in either a text editor where I can control the colours of the text & the background, or a word processor where I can do the same.

I could surely make a better job of it in a word processor.

After which I could make a screen shot & then tell my system to use it as a wallpaper.

Which is a much easier & simpler proposition on some DE/WM than others.

Certainly, telling seven different desktops to each have a different wallpaper on Openbox, is something that I would have to do a little research on... lol

Posted: **Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:26 pm**

As a belated afterthought, why doesn't Dolphin create a video which gives a dummies guide to MX's features? There are plenty of suggestions in this thread, simply go through what's most important, MX Tweak, MXPI etc. The video could be accessed via a button on the MX Welcome screen.

It's said a picture is worth a thousand words, I'd say a video is more effective than that.

Posted: **Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:03 am**

handy wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:33 am I like the idea of a wallpaper on just one desktop. The other desktop(s) could have whatever? on them....

I like this idea too, but with synapse, I just tape "mx" keys and I have " mx-welcome" first (mx-accueil in french): , and all others mx-references, mx-manual , etc...

Code: Select all

mx-boot-options       mx-findshares         mx-packageinstaller   mx-snapshot           mx-tweak
mx-bootrepair         mx-live-usb-maker     mx-paste              mx-switchuser         mx-usb-unmounter
mx-cleanup            mx-manual             mx-remastercc         mx-system-sounds      mx-user
mx-codecs             mx-menu-editor        mx-repo-manager       mx-timeset-gui        mx-viewer
mx-conky              mx-network-assistant  mx-select-sound       mx-tools              mx-welcome

Posted: **Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:01 am**

oops wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:03 am I like this idea too, but with synapse, I just tape "mx" keys and I have " mx-welcome" first (mx-accueil in french): , and all others mx-references, mx-manual , etc...
Code: Select all
mx-boot-options       mx-findshares         mx-packageinstaller   mx-snapshot           mx-tweak
mx-bootrepair         mx-live-usb-maker     mx-paste              mx-switchuser         mx-usb-unmounter
....

Note sure, wheher this is a good way of starting applications. I would rather recommend to stick with the provided starter available through the menu. E.g., just type "mx" within the whiskyer menu, and all "mx" applications starter are shown.
Reason: some applictions needs to be started as intended and provided within the menu-desktop-starter, e.g. some need special start-commands to get proper environment and privileges.

Posted: **Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:21 pm**

fehlix wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:01 am ...
1-) Note sure, wheher this is a good way of starting applications. I would rather recommend to stick with the provided starter available through the menu. E.g.,

2-) just type "mx" within the whiskyer menu, and all "mx" applications starter are shown.
Reason: some applictions needs to be started as intended and provided within the menu-desktop-starter, e.g. some need special start-commands to get proper environment and privileges.

For 1-) The result is graphic (see picture) and you can use the mouse scroll, etc
For 2-) I did not know until now ;-)

Posted: **Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:57 am**

Hi again,
I don't know if this is the correct thread to say this, but I recently did try (and managed) to add Google Drive as a mountable drive to my file explorer. I've always used the web interface, but this was a very good small "trick" to speed up the process of backing up some stuff to the web. It's not a "linux Google drive client"- for me it's better than that, because I don't want to have a copy of a local folder on google's servers, always synching up. I just wanted it to be like a backup thumb drive that I plug in and copy files to when I want. and that's what I got installing and using "gnome-control-center" (and some dependencies and so on...). I haven't tested it but it seems to work with microsoft web storage and a few more...

My point: Does a entry like "Can I use Google Drive on MX-Linux?" seem to be important enough to be in a "quick start" document? Or it would be better to just mention that and refer to a (I belive not yet existent) MX Manual entry...
If there's too much information on the quick start guide, with won't be "quick" to read

, but a MX manual entry is always helpfull.
The only "con" is when using a shared computer, everyone else will have access to your Gdrive without having to enter a password...

EDIT- and I just now found out about odrive (a google drive client with a appimage version. How did this escape me googling about a google drive linux client for so long? Anyway, I already got my GDrive available...

P.

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:29 pm**

Some kind of cheat-chart / graphic guide with cool tips & tricks, quick reference, pointers and good practices. The most important stuff from the FAQs, tips & tricks, wiki and manual. Could be made into a wallpaper / background. Just a thought ...

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:41 am**

What about having a start menu like deepin has on the right hand side of the screen. That scrolls threw a categorized menu from top to bottom instead of the same old windows start menu. Tip and trick could be one of category's. Yep this is not quite what you are asking i know. I just think that Linux does not have to look a windows a desktop to be functional.

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:48 am**

Thanks. We ran out of time (and personnel) for this whole set of interesting ideas.

We do now have a good FAQ set linked off the top of the new Welcome screen--have a read through and see if something common comes to mind that could be added.

Posted: **Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:14 pm**

I have recently learned how to:

-connect to my VPN server at startup, disable any other communication, and shut down IPv6

This involves simple ufw rules that obviate the need for any kind of kill switch. The details are all here: https://www.linuxquestions.org/question ... 175645618/, and you could see about including as a set-up option.

I have this box set up that way, as per my thread viewtopic.php?f=104&t=47748

The only issue I concern myself with now is browser fingerprinting - and I have ideas about that.

Posted: **Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:16 pm**

There are two areas which newbies probably struggle with ( I did!):

A. Getting the right permissions set on USB drives and internal/external ssd. The permissions vary depending on the file-format ( FAT32, NTFS, EXT4 - each have different permissions). Some need an entry in /etc/fstab( like internal second ssd/hdd). Some dont ( like USB sticks). A clear paragraph on exactly what to do about all this would be great.
Also - I had to set sysctl : vm.dirty_bytes = 200 MB and vm.dirty_background_bytes =100MB to get USB sticks working satisfactorily ( I wonder if these are better defaults than the 20%/10% that is the current default: which in my 16GB machines is way too big and results in a very long wait to eject a usb stick after it says it is done copying).

B. Live -USB-Maker: Need to inform new users to select "persist_static" and allow the creation of rootfs and homefs. Then allow the saving of /home into homefs . ( I actually think this should all happen by default - allowing users to customize it later through MX tools - if they want to load rootfs into ram etc.).

A third ( somewhat minor observation) has to do with MX Tweak. I found it confusing that it offered "Theme Options" that over-ride the options in "Appearance"(theme, Icon) and Window Manager. Is this really necessary?

Posted: **Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:07 pm**

had to set sysctl : vm.dirty_bytes = 200 MB and vm.dirty_background_bytes =100MB to get USB sticks working satisfactorily ( I wonder if these are better defaults than the 20%/10% that is the current default: which in my 16GB machines is way too big and results in a very long wait to eject a usb stick after it says it is done copying).

I agree, that's a good point. FWIW, the live-remaster and live-usb-maker tools check//change the dirty_bytes and dirty_ratio during each run (restoring the as-found original values before they exit).

A related consideration: FAT32 drives and presence or absence of sync mount option and... /etc/fstab

Need to inform new users to select "persist_static" and allow the creation of rootfs and homefs. Then allow the saving of /home into homefs . ( I actually think this should all happen by default - allowing users to customize it later through MX tools - if they want to load rootfs into ram etc.).

You've already promoted this idea (static + homefs should be default) in a recent topic and I've already respectfully disagreed (and spent a few lines explaining why so).

New thoughts to mention here:

+ Yes, it will be a real bummer to a user EXPECTING (presuming) persistence is pre-enabled during first-run... when s/he discovers that all those happy tweaks performed during firstrun session will not be saved.

- Yes, it will be a real bummer (only get ONE chance to make a first impression)
if static-persist-constrained r/w operations turn away new users because of the comparatively dogacid-slow user experience.

Posted: **Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:58 pm**

One of the first things I had to check on was how to add user!

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:26 am**

I recently switched from Windows 10 to MX-19. After I completed the install from LiveUSB I did nothing for a week except read the MX User manual. Which I found frustrating at times.

What's needed in my opinion :
1. Multiple living docs (in non-PDF format so they can be quickly updated/modified by doc authors and the updates stored in somewhere easily available to MX users)
2. multiple docs each of which is focused on one topic e.g.
one doc covering installing MX (aka 'Quick Start'), another covering desktop navigation, another covering basic MX apps, Networks, CLI basics, etc, etc
The current MX Uman is a gigantic task to update and keep current; multiple docs (each assigned to a different author) makes this task less daunting, allows for multiple people to modify/update independently of other authors and assures MX users they have the latest and best info authored by MX experts

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:31 am**

The following two statements are usually both true:

There's not enough documentation.
There's too much documentation.

--Larry Wall

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:22 am**

"Why are there so many manuals and documents? I can't even figure which one I need, there are so many! Why don't you put all of that information in just one user manual that I can search for what I'm looking for?"

Now, on the other hand, maybe if they were all in HTML format and there was an main index with hyperlinks... but I don't know what the advantage of that would be over a pdf document.

MX Linux Forum

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