MX Linux Forum

Please note:
World Backup day: https://www.worldbackupday.com/en

Also: Good stuff in the MX Manual https://raw.githubusercontent.com/MX-Li ... xum_en.pdf section 4.8.1

I always back up my data to a separate external drive....

Of course my stuff is backed up.

To me this is a "duh" answer.

I just backup my data only. I never back up my whole system. Data is the only important stuff to me. Stuff I created or stuff I know will be hard to find, when it gets abandon or discontinue. I just do this manually. Copy and Paste or drag n drop. I don't encrypt nothing either, much easier to access if things goes wrong. I backup to externals and some stuff to the cloud storage. Been backing up data since 1995 my Windows years, up to 2003 when I switch and I still backup during my Linux years as well.

gimcrack wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 5:46 am I just backup my data only. I never back up my whole system. Data is the only important stuff to me.

To this point, a backup means different things to different people. Some consider a backup to mean "I *must* be able to go back to *exactly* where I was at 4:43 PM yesterday!". And to others a backup means "If my machine explodes I can reinstall it from a new ISO, but my bookmarks, e-mail, and tax documents are all somewhere where I can get them again if I need them".

Personally, I maintain once-a-week, once-a-day, once-an-hour, and every-15-minutes snapshots of my daily driver ZFS datasets, and so far I've never needed to do a major salvage operation on any of them other than when I did some serious experimentation with a few Liquorix kernels. I run this on a single disk and I accept that risk, in large part because most of the stuff I work on all day is running on different systems and I spend most of my time remoted into VM and physical machines.

The important thing everyone should ask himself or herself: what is the exact monetary value you would put on losing your data today? How many dollars, euros, pesos, pounds, krona, yen, yuan, or Starbucks gift cards would you be willing to pay to get your data back from a ransomware gang?

Family photos. Love letters. A voice mail you saved to MP3. Maybe from a loved one who has passed away. Is it worth a 100 to you? Maybe 200. Maybe more.

Think about what that number is. Really think about it. Memories are priceless, yes, but most people would balk at a professional recovery service who says "we can restore your data from this failed hard drive for $1000." Think about what your "OK, do it" price is. And then consider what percentage of that you've invested into making sure that the crypto-lockers of the world can't take those files away from you. And then make sure the things you want to preserve get preserved.

Whose turn is it to backup the internet?

Like gimcrack, data backup is much more important to me. I back up to external drives and also a NAS.

I'm not so concerned if an installation of a distro borks, and this is in any case rare with other distros and does not happen with MX at all.

I have other installs on both my PC and laptop, so even if one distro dies, there are others I can run while I restore the distro that is messed up. If the whole machine dies, I have my data backup.

All my customisation files [fonts, icons, themes, conkies, wallpaper] are all part of the data that is backed up. Or I can copy over some of the stuff from another distro or the Data partition on the same machine if the machine itself is still working.

Also, once every few months, I do use gparted to copy and paste whole partitions [ie, the distro installations] to yet another external drive. This will provide a useful last resort starting point for any restoration. The partition copy may be a few months' old, but that's not a problem usually. And before I make a gparted copy, I always make sure that the distro I'm copying is working well at that point in time.

For instance, in end Feb, my test install of Arch+CosmicDE alpha simply refused to connect to the network after an update. I tried restoring various Timeshift snapshots that were fairly recent but somehow the problem was still there. So I took out my early January Gparted copy and pasted it back into the partition, and that worked. From there, I just did a system update, and this time it went well.

This is my strategy:

My data is on a separate drive within my PC. That drive has my (2TB) Dropbox folder. That folder is shared on my home network, so the data is available from different machines.
Once a day, Grsync mirrors 'home' to the data drive, so that at any one time there are three copies of 'home', two local and one in the cloud.

Chris

I am pretty much with DukeComposed on this one.. and handle my backups the same methods... + a daily timeshift.

In my experience there are two types of people when it comes to computers.
1) The person that understands how to recover from issues, and so they plan and operate their systems as such.
2) Everyone else... and these people either need or want their system to be a simple recovery - as easy as it can be.

For me... I need my systems up... period. So.. I have no problem spending the cycles and space to have as quick and automated a "recover" as I possibly can.

@MikeR Thanks for informing us about "World Backup Day"

I do Weekly Timeshift Snapshots of my 3 MX distros: Fluxbox, KDE, and Xfce. I only keep 2 of each at any one time. Thankfully, I have never had to restore my system from a Timeshift Snapshot.

I also do a monthly MX-Snapshot of my 3 distros, and then use MX-LUM to make the live, bootable flash media. I think about 4 years ago I did opt to re-install from one of these snapshots.

I run "LuckyBackup" (rsync) for my data:
docs (work, finances, browser bookmarks, SSH keys (thanks mention]DukeComposed[/mention] ), music & audio (recordings, podcasts), pics, and videos -- all add-up to about 3TB, and I have all of that backed-up across 4 separate external hard drives. I also have many of my documents backed-up to Dropbox (which I upgraded about 6 months ago to the lowest "paid" version -- 2TB, I think). Now, 2 of the external hard drives are only 1TB & 2TB each, so I am not backing-up my entire video collection to those drives. However, I do backup ALL of my data to the other 2 drives (4TB and 5TB each). Besides Dropbox (again, which has everything, except large videos), I do keep one of my backup drives "offsite"; namely, in a separate sub-basement. So, maybe not exactly offsite

Sitting on a shelf, I have 2 more 4TB drives, and one 8TB drive, waiting for me to decide exactly how to integrate them into my backup scheme. Additionally, I have a family-member who is willing to have me set-up a machine on their network, so that I can SSH into it, and I am seriously considering using that for a TRULY OFFSITE backup.

One final addendum: I was recently educated about the type of file system of my backup drives, and how that might be a determining factor, especially if I'm backing-up SSH Keys Here's the Forum link for that conversation: viewtopic.php?p=809381#p809381 Importantly, that thread mentions one of my backup-drives failing!!! So, that's the reason I am insistent on the 3-2-1 (3 copies, 2 different types of media, and at least 1 offsite) principle of backup, though I don't strictly adhere to the 2 different types of media thing. For me, I feel secure if I have at least 3 separate backup drives containing the same data, and at least one offsite.

Oh, yeah, I have also backed-up my old Windows installation, and I keep those backup files on one of my large backup hard drives. I also have this install on a separate working drive on my rig, but which is actually not even "registered" with GRUB. I just know it's there, and can get to it via my BIOS (UEFI, really; and no, it doesn't even show-up on my rEFInd GUI). This is how I backed-up the drive that has that Windows install:
Important: the "if" (input file) drive (e.g. /dev/sdb1) has to be UNMOUNTED !!!
Whereas, the "of" (output file) drive (e.g. /media/opera-dude/....) has to be MOUNTED !!!

Here's the results of the above operations:
part1.img.gz = 8.4 MiB
part2.img.gz = 10.4 GiB

Here are my sources for "dd" documentation:
https://tecadmin.net/drive-and-partitio ... d-command/ & https://linoxide.com/linux-command/linu ... -1gb-file/

EDIT:
Here's how that (working) Windows install looks on my separate hard drive: Thanks again for "World Backup Day"

NickStone wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 7:07 am Whose turn is it to backup the internet?

A lot of the stuff on the internet is old & out of date, so I don't think many would miss it, whereas, most people who use the internet have copies of their data already...

MikeR wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 12:49 am Please note:
World Backup day: https://www.worldbackupday.com/en

Also: Good stuff in the MX Manual https://raw.githubusercontent.com/MX-Li ... xum_en.pdf section 4.8.1

My backup script runs every two hours via cron close to like time machine does on Apple machine. It uses rsync with hard links to save on the space only saving changes to the file system to keep the space used to the minimum needed. And as always a backup is useless unless tested to be proven usable. A couple of times at least a week I use the similar/same script to clone my running install to external drive which then gets cloned onto my backup machine after booting on it then confirming it works. I am even more paranoid with my large media files, four machines accumulated over the years filled with twenty hard drives in zfs raidz configuration so I have four copies of that data, not the couple like my main and backup machine. And of course each personal machine has backup drives in them that are used for clone of main used install separate from the backup drive used in those machines. So yeah my stuff is backed up.

Hi,

I know better but am generally terrible at Backing up... Like many here have also said I never have anything important within a Linux install itself and always on separate drives and partitions which of course is no guarantee but at least if the OS goes south the Data is separated.

My personal data and projects are quite tremendously important to me (including custom audio recordings spanning a couple of decades, which I routinely pull from as raw material in my work, and these largely only exist in places I directly have control over), so I have everything appropriately backed up. This also includes a completely off-site, physical, air-gapped twice-redundant copy that I sync by literally bringing physical drives to said location :P

Also, setting up a production system from scratch takes almost a couple of weeks full time, so having all such systems properly backed up and readily re-installable in the case of something like a hardware failure is important to me, too (and I have actually recovered from a couple of those, using my system backups, through the years).

Nokkaelaein wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 2:43 pm
Also, setting up a production system from scratch takes almost a couple of weeks full time, so having all such systems properly backed up and readily re-installable in the case of something like a hardware failure is important to me, too (and I have actually recovered from a couple of those, using my system backups, through the years).

Hehe, I know one that installs in about 20 minutes...

AVLinux wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 2:50 pm Hehe, I know one that installs in about 20 minutes...

Hehh, yes, and it's great - but it's a generalized system that isn't the production system of some specific company or studio, with all the software and licenses and tooling etc. etc. in place that are used in that specific location. But yeah, I know it was just a lighthearted comment , AV Linux rocks.

As I've mentioned, on the Linux side, I do have my own such system with the software and tooling in place that I personally use. Not unlike AV Linux, only more deeply integrated with the commercial tools in use over here (which wouldn't be possible for a publicly available free distribution). That one naturally doesn't take long to redeploy, and it's invaluable as a fallback in many unforeseen situations. I've done some on the fly editing on that one even on some random company laptops, simply booting it live, heh.

Yes on 100K floppies from 1995.

richb wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 2:59 pm Yes on 100K floppies from 1995.

How did you know what my "completely off-site, physical, air-gapped twice-redundant copy" looks like?

Nokkaelaein wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 2:56 pm

AVLinux wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 2:50 pm Hehe, I know one that installs in about 20 minutes...

Hehh, yes, and it's great - but it's a generalized system that isn't the production system of some specific company or studio, with all the software and licenses and tooling etc. etc. in place that are used in that specific location. But yeah, I know it was just a lighthearted comment , AV Linux rocks.

As I've mentioned, on the Linux side, I do have my own such system with the software and tooling in place that I personally use. Not unlike AV Linux, only more deeply integrated with the commercial tools in use over here (which wouldn't be possible for a publicly available free distribution). That one naturally doesn't take long to redeploy, and it's invaluable as a fallback in many unforeseen situations. I've done some on the fly editing on that one even on some random company laptops, simply booting it live, heh.

Yes, I understand exactly, even my own actual Studio production system differs significantly from a generic AVL install. We are so fortunate to have the MX backup and snapshotting tools at out disposal for such detailed deployment and emergency reinstallation purposes!

AVLinux wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 3:16 pm We are so fortunate to have the MX backup and snapshotting tools at out disposal for such detailed deployment and emergency reinstallation purposes!

Yes! I occasionally bring up how I think MX Snapshot doesn't get enough cred. It's still often confused with HD imaging tools like Clonezilla. Even when it seems like a discussion takes place between people who actually know what it is... it might turn out that the greatness and point of still wasn't fully realized ... (Not that long ago, I bumped into a random conversation like this, which went on for a while, and then someone basically said something to the effect of "yeah that MX Snapshot is cool, but surely you aren't trying to install your snapshot on a different computer than the one you made it on, that's bound not to work" XD argh.)

So yeah. This is one of those tools that really literally changed the way I approach using computers in general. Not a lot of tools of that calibre around, on any system!

AVLinux wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 2:28 pm
I know better but am generally terrible at Backing up... Like many here have also said I never have anything important within a Linux install itself and always on separate drives and partitions which of course is no guarantee but at least if the OS goes south the Data is separated.

I've been spoiled. My Linux systems have been rock solid since I moved over permanently some 20 years ago. Never have had a catastrophic failure requiring a full restoration. That said, I back up my entire home to an external and my email and browser profiles to a thumb drive every couple days. If this drive ever craps out it will force me to update from this MX-19 install. I wouldn't be happy about it but it wouldn't be a huge problem.

I save snapshots on 3 TB harddrive after getting everything working after a install.

OP here.
In a previous life I was part of a team maintaining the weekly backup of over two-hundred SCSI disks (sizes two- to three-GB each - that will hint as how long ago this was) on a system with over-1000 logged-in users. This left me as a rather fanatic backup nut.
Some experience gained in those days:

1. If your backup schedule includes the word 'about', as in 'about monthly', 'more or less weekly' procrastination will hit you at the most inconvenient time.
And it will happen.
2. If you backup, but have not tested your restore procedure to completion, there in an unfortunate accident waiting for you.
3. Try to have at least three generations of backup, on separate (not necessarily different) media. Keep one copy elsewhere. Always.

My current preferences:
1. Before making any possibly-irreversible changes I take a snapshot. (On Ubuntu I use PinguyBuilder(*) and have had occasion to restore from it)
2. For my more-or-less daily PC I have three extra disks identical to my system, which I clone (Clonezilla) in rotation, on a fixed date every month, and then test by booting and running some tests -- on all partitions.
3. For occasional quick tests I backup using a program called 'clone-ubuntu'(**) (works on MX too) which writes '/' and '/home' to a bootable SSD

HTH,
Mike

(*) https://sourceforge.net/projects/pinguy ... O_Builder/
(**)https://github.com/thiggy01/clone-ubuntu

MikeR wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 8:05 am 3. Try to have at least three generations of backup, on separate (not necessarily different) media. Keep one copy elsewhere. Always.

The current iteration of this advice is the "3-2-1" backup guideline: for any data you care about, make sure you have three copies, in at least two different locations, and have one copy in the cloud.

MikeR wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 8:05 am My current preferences:

More people should have this level of rigor in managing their backups. If folks were half this organized we'd have a lot less griping about trying to get back into a failed disk.

I have two conventional 8TB HDDs each with a backup copy from my main 8TB SSD using Lucky Backup and everything is full disk encrypted on all drives.

@DukeComposed

The current iteration of this advice is the "3-2-1" backup guideline

For a commercial setup, where data is invaluable, that setup is probably correct. Perhaps even as a base for a more complex and secure protocol.
Anything up to and including having a fully redundant remote backup site. Which probably would be useless e.g. in an atomic apocalypse or a local equivalent
For the common-or-garden hobbyist it seems a trifle too demanding.
Also I would worry that encrypting your backup might place a possible hurdle when restoring. Are you protecting against your backup being stolen?
Other than storing an (updated, possibly encrypted, or read-only) remote copy a convenient attitude might be :
'Put all your eggs in one basket AND WATCH THAT BASKET'

But most important: **BACKUP**, Have a backup system/protocol/regime!! Test it!!

@MikeR The (World Backup) Day is Finally Here

Thanks again for the thread!

To summarize my procedures, and in accordance with your "current preferences":

1. Monthly MX-Snapshots (and MX-LUM).
2. Weekly Timeshift Snapshots (includes / (root), & /home)
3. Daily "Data" backup via LuckyBackup (rsync) & "cloud" (Dropbox)

===> Data is "cloned" to 5 separate hard drives, and 1 "cloud"
===> MX-Snapshots (MX-LUM to SD/USB) are tested
===> Timeshift Snapshots are tested
===> Data is tested/checked

Coming to you LIVE (via MX-LUM --> Fluxbox)

Well, almost had a panic attack, after all of my SD cards failed with MX-LUM

Thought maybe one of my ports was bad, tried changing them; no diff !!!

Looked closely at the output when I got the dreaded "Failed" error message.

Looked weird: -1234 (some number) MB.

Looked at LUM.log, and LO-AND-BEHOLD:

All my SD cards were 16GB, but my Snapshots are now all OVER 16GB.

Simple Fix: Bumped it up to 32GB SD cards.

Living Large

Happy "World Backup Day"

Coming to you LIVE (via MX-LUM --> KDE)

Just to report another near-wrinkle:

First-time ever, after booting MX-Fluxbox (Live, via MX-LUM), I was NOT able to set the initial passphrase; got this error: "IO error while encrypting keyslot".

Tried a couple more times; no luck!

Switched the USB port, and VOILA (succeeded in setting new passphrase).

So, yeah, as OP urged...test those backups

Coming to you LIVE (via MX-LUM --> Xfce)

No problems with setting passphrase (neither for KDE, nor Xfce; Fluxbox resolved !!!).

The Universe, Man!

Like WEIRD...

All is Good!

Some relevant war stories and lessons learned
(go through the comments for people's experiences)
https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/01/ ... /?td=rt-3a

Mike

Whenever I see such a discussion I'm reminded of this classic from wayback in 1997:

http://taobackup.com/index.html