MX Linux Forum

Understood,

A while ago the folks over at PeppermintOS managed to get 32-bit running on Ubuntu & Debia after Ubuntu bailed. Perhaps they could be convinced to partner with other distros who want to keep ancient hardware afloat.

Adrian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 5:55 pm I doubt people cannot find hardware that companies started to dispose off at least 15 years ago (I know we were disposing of stuff with Intel Core Duo about that time). I'm not telling people to dumpster dive, but you can get stuff for $20-$35 that runs on 64-bit BETTER than anything you might have that is 32-bit-only. I mean even a Raspberry PI previous version can run 64-bit and you can get it brand new for $35, I'm sure you can find some cheaper from people who want to upgrade to Pi5 -- I know those are ARM-based, but it's just an example.

This underlines another issue that I feel is more pressing. Instead of fretting over if 32-bit kernels are going to stay in current distros over the next few years, we should be figuring out a good migration strategy off of x64 onto whatever the next new thing is going to be. Will that be ARM64? Or RISC-V? It's time to start looking towards the exits and making a plan.

Adrian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 5:55 pm Also... if you still don't want to upgrade, continue to use Bookwork, or use antiX or other specialty OS

I considered against mentioning it before, but I may as well now that this afternoon OSNews published an article on NetBSD, which serves as a terrific catch-all for obscure and obsolete architectures. One of the NetBSD Project's goals is robust portability and that extends to some fairly ubiquitous processors. 32-bit processors are going to be around for a long time and there will always be a community that surrounds itself around them. It just doesn't have to be this one.

After researching and reading replies to my own thread on this, I think my final opinion on this here is gonna be that it's not necessarily x86 getting dropped that I find to be the issue... Per se. It's much more the manner in which the Debian team decided to drop it. It was pointed out to me (viewtopic.php?p=796645#p796645) that a news story about a year ago broke which announced the plans to finally start dropping x86 support. In fairness, I didn't see that story at all, so it was probably on me that I wasn't keeping up with most Linux news at that time but... Even so, I dunno, guys. We also have to understand that Debian is an incredibly popular distro, and lot of average users in the Linux community may not be keeping up with Linux news constantly, so it still feels like this could have been handled a bit better.

Now, we do need to face that x86 is getting old as the hills now. I agree generally with the MX devs that sooner or later, this architecture will have to be let go. (At least for MX main anyway.) But still, x86 was an extremely popular architecture for a long time, even after x64 was out for a little bit. Maybe we should have given it more forewarning and a proper send-off, you know?

Arnox wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 10:39 pm I think my final opinion on this here is gonna be that it's not necessarily x86 getting dropped that I find to be the issue... Per se. It's much more the manner in which the Debian team decided to drop it.

lot of average users in the Linux community may not be keeping up with Linux news constantly, so it still feels like this could have been handled a bit better.

Maybe we should have given it more forewarning and a proper send-off, you know?

This wouldn't be the first time a controversial decision in Debian has been made quickly, shadily, and with a lot of casualties.

Maybe we should have given it more forewarning and a proper send-off, you know?

Since Trixie is a long way from a release, that makes roughly two years advance notice, give or take some months.

Stevo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 1:17 am

Maybe we should have given it more forewarning and a proper send-off, you know?

Since Trixie is a long way from a release, that makes roughly two years advance notice, give or take some months.

Regardless though, most casual Debian users won't know about any of this until Debian 13 fully releases as many aren't going to keep track of Linux news. The best way to inform them would have been something more direct, like a bolded message on the download page of the x86 edition of Debian 13 warning them of deprecation and future EoL or maybe a simple banner that pops up in every DE, letting users know that x86 EoL is coming. Those are just some ideas off the top of my head, but the point is to get the message out where EVERYONE can see it before the change happens. Hell, even I almost missed this as I don't check Linux news very often.

I don't get it, what do they need to know about? What kind of decision do they need to make?

Stevo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 4:40 pm What percentage of those are using Intel x386 instead of 32-bit ARM by now, though? My $15 el-cheapo smartwatch may be more powerful than my first desktop (why, yes, I am old).

That's a fair point. My gut feeling is that the people who use industrial x386 SBCs are mostly running Windows on them. Or DOS, even. I've got some of these boards, but I can't really think of anything I could do with them, that I couldn't do with an ARM board. That's probably why most are still in the box. Nevertheless, VIA boards advertise Linux support, so I guess somebody must be using them that way.

All I'm saying is -- don't assume that Linux is only used on desktop computers. I suspect that's the smallest proportion of Linux installations. I appreciate, of course, that MX Linux is specifically targetting desktop installations. But changes to the kernel could have far-reaching consequences.

BR, Lars.

Adrian wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 2:43 am I don't get it, what do they need to know about? What kind of decision do they need to make?

Maybe Debian should switch to a single sign-on model to make sure every user is constantly informed, all the time. Users can sign up for a free Authenticated Debian Sign-in (ADS) using a valid e-mail address, a password, and the choice of a 2FA phone app for extra security. This way whenever a user signs into any Debian-based system they can expect to get all the latest news, blog posts, and special product offers and discounts. Whatever the Debian Project wants to share can be presented in a simple, convenient notification window at login that the user can close after clicking through all of the new stories, blurbs, and coupons. Yes, I can imagine that everyone will love it when Debian gets support for ADS.