MX Linux Forum

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:56 am**

MX comes with 3 desktop environment only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox. Why was GNOME 2/3 or MATE left out? Was there any design reason or some steps that GNOME team took which do not make it appealing for what MX Linux is about? Or some other reason?

I am not looking to start a flame war over here. Just wanted to know the reasons. Do not want to challenge or cast doubt on the wisdom of choosing these 3 Desktop environments only.

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:05 am**

Personal choice of the developers I guess.

There are a total of seven different versions now, and a team that consists entirely of volunteers, so developing, testing and maintaining another version would not be feasible.

Chris

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:14 am**

I'm not joining to MX's system building, (Only Art/MX Looks Design)
This view is as one MX user.
Probably it's needs strongly focus to only 3 Desktop Environments.

So if MX have many many Desktop Environments,
Development (Adjust Desktop Environments settings,design,etc) will can't take perfect control,
They are will not reach to high-completeness.

To realize high-completeness, MX Dev team focusing on only 3 Desktop Environments. (I'm wrong?)

XFCE - Simple. The de facto standard of DE.
KDE - Mepis adopted KDE.
Fluxbox - Some MX users wants lightweight more than XFCE.

I think so, if I'm wronged, Please correct feel free!

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:21 am**

We started with Xfce only. we added KDE and fluxbox out of community and dev team member interest. We don't have much interest in adding gnome, mate, or anything else really. No particular problem with those desktops, but three is enough for our team to support.

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:47 am**

I figure they were nice enough to make a Minimal Iso release.

Then one can fly to their hearts content.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/mx-lin ... X-Minimal/

Make your own.

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:27 am**

rokytnji.1 wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:47 am I figure they were nice enough to make a Minimal Iso release.

Then one can fly to their hearts content.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/mx-lin ... X-Minimal/

Make your own.

Further to that...

The MX Developers have included MX Snapshot which is essentially a tool to roll your own version of MX exactly how you like it, and if you aren't comfortable with that the MX Forum has a complete section for custom Respins and there are several folks there who are very skilled with using MX Snapshot: @Senpai , @user-green @Joseph DeGarmo @rasat and others. These are people who have taken the time and care to make and share custom Respins with Gnome, Mate, Cinnamon and other common alternatives and although their Spins are not 'official' MX releases they contain all of the great MX Extras that make MX the amazing thing that it is. I would have no concerns at all about installing Respins by these folks, they are regulars on the forum and routinely answer questions and release updated and fixed ISO's of their work.

This way the MX Developers need only support their three official variants and by brilliantly sharing their build system people looking for alternatives are also looked after in a less official but still largely supported capacity. I personally don't know any other Distro Community that is so collaborative in this way and it is a testament to the generosity of the Development team.

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:43 am**

I experimented with a Slackware derivative called SalixOS for a bit because I was scared of systemd. It was really fast and ultralight (Xfce) and I could not add any Gnome stuff to it. Someone on their forum said it's because Gnome depends on systemd. I wonder if that's maybe part of the reason... we can get Gnome stuff on MX because it "has" systemd but only uses it as a dependency for other stuff but not init. With the option to boot into systemd-init, you can do all the Gnome / MATE stuff you want.

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2024 4:46 pm**

Mx was originally conceived as a full featured but lightweight system to breathe life into old netbooks. Hence the use of XFCE. The vertical panel is one design decision that was made with that in mind. KDE was later developed and offered to those of us old Mepis heads who really really wanted our good ol' KDE back. (It's what brought me back into the fold.) As far as Fluxbox, I think that's just some old goof's hobby project. :-)

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2024 5:22 pm**

For the record: the choice of Xfce and the vertical panel was mine at the very beginning because I liked both and wanted to create an OS for myself. That was before there was any thought about its future.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:51 am**

Freja wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:14 am XFCE - Simple. The de facto standard of DE.
KDE - Mepis adopted KDE.
Fluxbox - Some MX users wants lightweight more than XFCE.

I think so, if I'm wronged, Please correct feel free!

Fluxbox is more light weight than XFCE? I was under the impression that only LXDE was more light weight.

dolphin_oracle wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:21 am We started with Xfce only. we added KDE and fluxbox out of community and dev team member interest. We don't have much interest in adding gnome, mate, or anything else really. No particular problem with those desktops, but three is enough for our team to support.

Thanks @dolphin_oracle that helps.

Artim wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:43 am I experimented with a Slackware derivative called SalixOS for a bit because I was scared of systemd. It was really fast and ultralight (Xfce) and I could not add any Gnome stuff to it. Someone on their forum said it's because Gnome depends on systemd. I wonder if that's maybe part of the reason... we can get Gnome stuff on MX because it "has" systemd but only uses it as a dependency for other stuff but not init. With the option to boot into systemd-init, you can do all the Gnome / MATE stuff you want.

@Artim one of my reasons for coming to MX Linux was not to use SystemD. I have nothing against it, it is just that systems with SystemD tend to be slow to boot and do not age well. That is not the case with SysVInit. I hope MX Linux continues to give the option to run non SystemD. Any chance of MX Linux giving an option to use runit too? Or do I have to go and get a Respin?

uncle mark wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 4:46 pm Mx was originally conceived as a full featured but lightweight system to breathe life into old netbooks. Hence the use of XFCE. The vertical panel is one design decision that was made with that in mind. KDE was later developed and offered to those of us old Mepis heads who really really wanted our good ol' KDE back. (It's what brought me back into the fold.) As far as Fluxbox, I think that's just some old goof's hobby project. :-)

@uncle mark Good old KDE is back. It is good that KDE did not go through the schism that GNOME went when it transitioned from GNOME 2 to 3. I also hope that as my system ages, MX and its lightweight attributes will help me in prolonging its use. Thus minimizing the impact both financially and ecologically. Hope to do more with less.

Jerry3904 wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 5:22 pm For the record: the choice of Xfce and the vertical panel was mine at the very beginning because I liked both and wanted to create an OS for myself. That was before there was any thought about its future.

It was an inspired choice @Jerry3904. It will help MX Linux.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:20 am**

LinuxSpring1 wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:51 am Fluxbox is more light weight than XFCE? I was under the impression that only LXDE was more light weight.

fluxbox is a window manager. XFCE is a desktop environment.

Code: Select all

sudo ps_mem.py | grep fluxbox
Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used
4.6 MiB + 530.5 KiB =   5.1 MiB	fluxbox

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2024 4:45 am**

Oops, I didn't know well about Fluxbox, sorry...

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:35 am**

siamhie wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:20 am
LinuxSpring1 wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:51 am Fluxbox is more light weight than XFCE? I was under the impression that only LXDE was more light weight.

fluxbox is a window manager. XFCE is a desktop environment.
Code: Select all
sudo ps_mem.py | grep fluxbox
Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used
4.6 MiB + 530.5 KiB =   5.1 MiB	fluxbox

So basically FluxBox is like IceWM?

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:36 am**

LinuxSpring1 wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:35 am
siamhie wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:20 am
LinuxSpring1 wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:51 am Fluxbox is more light weight than XFCE? I was under the impression that only LXDE was more light weight.

fluxbox is a window manager. XFCE is a desktop environment.
Code: Select all
sudo ps_mem.py | grep fluxbox
Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used
4.6 MiB + 530.5 KiB =   5.1 MiB	fluxbox
So basically FluxBox is like IceWM?

in that they are both window managers, yes. they work differently.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:51 am**

Hi,

I would say the biggest User noticeable thing about using a Window Manager vs. a Desktop Environment is that Window Managers don't 'manage' the Desktop so you will miss the traditional ability to set wallpaper, have a Panel or Dock and place launchers/icons on the Desktop.. Distros based on Window Managers (as a great example MX-Fluxbox) rely on a series of separate dedicated programs (ie Nitrogen, Tint2) to fill in and perform these tasks and it can be done very well but requires a lot more pre-configuration and customization to accomplish. WM-based Distros by and large are generally better suited to folks with at least some Linux experience where Desktop Environments have a more familiar monolithic behaviour like Windows or MacOS..

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:27 am**

I believe the MX version of fluxbox has a fair number of graphical tools/menus to make certain tasks/configuration easier.

Probably less need for editing text files for configs than maybe other vanilla WMs.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:33 am**

asqwerth wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:27 am I believe the MX version of fluxbox has a fair number of graphical tools/menus to make certain tasks/configuration easier.

Probably less need for editing text files for configs than maybe other vanilla WMs.

Indeed, I intended to get that across by saying it was pre-configured, but yes I should have clarified it also has significant custom tools to aid in configuration.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2024 12:07 pm**

AVLinux wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:51 am
Window Managers don't 'manage' the Desktop so you will miss the traditional ability to set wallpaper, have a Panel or Dock and place launchers/icons on the Desktop

I had played around with various WM's (afterstep, windowmaker, fvwm, sawfish, etc.) before I came across fluxbox back in the early 2000's and this is what attracted me to that desktop.

Features

Right-clicking on the desktop gives a root menu
Customizable root menu
Wallpapers
Running applications appear in a taskbar
Support for desktop themes[2]
Customizable keyboard shortcuts
Window tabbing
Slit for applications such as system monitors

Customization

Customization is done by editing configuration files in the .fluxbox subdirectory in the user's home directory:

Keyboard shortcuts are stored in the ~/.fluxbox/keys file.
Menu layout is in the ~/.fluxbox/menu file.
Everything that is run at startup is kept in the ~/.fluxbox/startup file.
The fluxbox configuration file is held at ~/.fluxbox/init.

Sorry to have strayed off topic.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:58 am**

siamhie wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 12:07 pm
AVLinux wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:51 am
Window Managers don't 'manage' the Desktop so you will miss the traditional ability to set wallpaper, have a Panel or Dock and place launchers/icons on the Desktop

I had played around with various WM's (afterstep, windowmaker, fvwm, sawfish, etc.) before I came across fluxbox back in the early 2000's and this is what attracted me to that desktop.

@siamhie , @AVLinux are there any screenshots of the WM only Linux systems? If you are using WM only Linux would you please attach 1-2 screenshots on how they appear. And thanks for the clearest explanation that I have seen till date on what is the difference between Desktop and Window Managers. It helps a lot.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:09 am**

You could check out Bunsenlabs distro, which is based on openbox and Debian Stable.

And for a huge number of other WMs contained within 1 distro, check out our sister distro, antiX.

They use various other independent (ie, non-DE) programs to sort out wallpaper, panel, etc.

And lots of tasks can be done by simply right clicking on the desktop.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2024 3:24 am**

@LinuxSpring1

Mx Fluxbox screenshots

there are a few on the home page
https://mxlinux.org/

and what users do with mxfb
viewtopic.php?t=55055&start=1190

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2024 3:38 am**

LinuxSpring1 wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:58 am @siamhie are there any screenshots of the WM only Linux systems?

Whenever I change background images, I like to match a style to go along with it.

Here's a Purple theme I put together.

Green theme

Blue theme

This is a style I wrote based on the colors from the XMMS (audio player-top right) skin called N_Log that pairs well with black and white photographs.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:06 am**

asqwerth wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:09 am You could check out Bunsenlabs distro, which is based on openbox and Debian Stable.

And for a huge number of other WMs contained within 1 distro, check out our sister distro, antiX.

They use various other independent (ie, non-DE) programs to sort out wallpaper, panel, etc.

And lots of tasks can be done by simply right clicking on the desktop.

Isnt antiX a rolling distro like Slackware and Arch?

siamhie wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 3:38 am
LinuxSpring1 wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:58 am @siamhie are there any screenshots of the WM only Linux systems?

This is a style I wrote based on the colors from the XMMS (audio player-top right) skin called N_Log that pairs well with black and white photographs.

This one is great.

. Almost looks like batman with his mouth agape.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:22 am**

You can choose Debian Stable or Debian Sid when you install antiX.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:41 am**

LinuxSpring1 wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:06 am

This one is great. . Almost looks like batman with his mouth agape.

It's like a bridge to the bat cave. It's called St. Johns Bridge in Portland Oregon.
The bridge has been featured in the televisions series Grimm and The Librarians.

LinuxSpring1 wrote: Isnt antiX a rolling distro like Slackware and Arch?

Slackware is a stable distro just like Debian. The latest release 15 (Feb 2022) comes with the 5.15 kernel.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:22 am**

I've been exploring the idea of creating a Budgie respin. The Budgie desktop brings better system video performance than Cinnamon, but at the expense of losing all those Cinnamon applets, desklets, and extensions. The thing is I want it to have the same suite of applications as CinnaMX and add Plank. I could remix CinnaMX into such, but installing Budgie and removing Cinnamon will cause Budgie to start up into an error screen when restarting the session after logging out. The problem does not occur if I leave Cinnamon intact. So I could go one of two ways:

Install Budgie as an alternate desktop session on CinnaMX, configure its own desktop layout / theme color / wallpaper, install the Firefox ESR browser on it (to avoid keyring issues), and attempt to force LightDM to default to the Cinnamon session. Or...

Install Budgie on CinnaMX, configure it and set it as the default session, change the Cinnamon desktop to fallback to the Budgie theme / wallpaper, and rename the project as MX Linux Budgie Remix or something else which would involve a dual-desktop distro.

The other issue with Budgie is that you cannot add custom wallpapers to the Budgie Control Panel settings and Nemo cannot set images as desktop backgrounds. But the recently-added Pix application will address that issue, so it will be required for changing the desktop background.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:17 pm**

Joseph DeGarmo wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:22 am I've been exploring the idea of creating a Budgie respin. The Budgie desktop brings better system video performance than Cinnamon, but at the expense of losing all those Cinnamon applets, desklets, and extensions

user-green has published Budgie respins for both MX-21 and MX-23. They may prove useful for study.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:19 pm**

To give a comparison the Linux Mint team some years ago made releases with at least six DEs and WMs, they have since dropped all but three Cinnamon, Mate and Xfce due to only having so many devs and other resources.

There are other distros that do make releases with more DEs and WMs, but from what I have seen they have few to no tools developed in house.

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 1:57 am**

As for a Budgie respin, I discovered that I could install the Budgie session on CinnaMX, but keep Cinnamon the default session by renaming the Budgie session as "MX Budgie" in the xsessions directory in the file system. That way, since LightDM lists the desktop sessions in alphabetical order, it will keep Cinnamon on top instead of falling back to Budgie for new users or live sessions. Therefore, I could add the alternate Budgie session with its own appearance settings and upgrade the project into "CinnaMX Plus". But while the Budgie desktop will use the generic or MX logo for the menu launcher, Neofetch will still display the distro as CinnaMX, which will kind of look out of place on the Budgie desktop. Unless, of course, if I revert the ascii logo back to the MX logo and just update the distro name. What do you think?

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 2:37 am**

---->> What do you think ?
I think you should try !
I certainly will download, install and comment !

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:20 am**

Looks like I have to cancel the plans for a Budgie spin. I tried to run the Budgie desktop on a pre-installed CinnaMX and after logging out of the Budgie session, logging back into it results in a session crash EVERY FRIGGIN' TIME!!! It did not seem to occur on a live session, so I don't know what the problem is.

EDIT: After one more attempt, I discovered that the Budgie login error occurs on MX Linux's default init system, but does not seem to have any issues logging in when the system is running on systemd mode! So it appears that Budgie and GNOME apparently use systemd as a dependency to avoid issues. So I'll look further into this and attempt to throw the CinnaMX working build into systemd permanently to allow a Budgie session.

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 9:13 am**

I downloaded Budgie from Solus website
Trying to install , in the configuration period, it refuses to recognise the EFI bootloader , no matter what I do. It stalls ! ! Only when I say << no bootloader >> it carries on
Maybe there is a relationship with your rebooting and crashing
Please note, I am just guessing here
This is the first time in 20 years and after 384 linux-iso installs ( just joking )1

Whatever you make........I will try :-)

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 9:28 am**

Tony45 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 9:13 am I downloaded Budgie from Solus website
Trying to install , in the configuration period, it refuses to recognise the EFI bootloader , no matter what I do. It stalls ! ! Only when I say << no bootloader >> it carries on
Maybe there is a relationship with your rebooting and crashing
Please note, I am just guessing here
This is the first time in 20 years and after 384 linux-iso installs ( just joking )1

Whatever you make........I will try :-)

I guess in this case, if I could get MX Linux on systemd permanently and if MX Snapshot functions properly on it, then I could just build a Budgie respin from scratch. BTW, I hope you downloaded the updated ISO for CinnaMX 2.1 since the download link previously pointed to the wrong ISO.

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 10:56 pm**

---->>then I could just build a Budgie respin from scratch.
That would be my preference ( instead of ( CinnaMX-Full
I believe the Solus-Budgie uses Pipewire instead of PulseAudio

---->> I hope you downloaded the updated ISO for CinnaMX 2.1 since the download link previously pointed to the wrong ISO.
Yes I did, but the old one ( I call it CinnaMX v1 ) is still my favourite
Memory: free -m=695 whereas the latest is : free -m=950
Thats a difference of 250
For normal standard operations it is not important at all, but for piano-music-latency there is a difference
And specially if you have 10 year old hardware ( which is my case )

That's why I am interested in Budgie. A possible solution for my latency issue

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2024 2:20 am**

I just now ( 15 minutes ago ) I found out we have a BudgieRespin already ? ?
https://versaweb.dl.sourceforge.net/pro ... so?viasf=1

Have a look there !

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2024 2:50 am**

Tony45 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 2:20 am I just now ( 15 minutes ago ) I found out we have a BudgieRespin already ? ?
https://versaweb.dl.sourceforge.net/pro ... so?viasf=1

Have a look there !

I tried it before. It's just the vanilla Budgie desktop. It does not have Pix, which is needed to change wallpapers on Budgie and it does not default to systemd, which is needed for Budgie and GNOME to function properly.

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2024 3:30 am**

OK thanks for the tip

I wait :-)

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2024 1:08 am**

jeffreyC wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:19 pm To give a comparison the Linux Mint team some years ago made releases with at least six DEs and WMs, they have since dropped all but three Cinnamon, Mate and Xfce due to only having so many devs and other resources.

There are other distros that do make releases with more DEs and WMs, but from what I have seen they have few to no tools developed in house.

Isnt Mate GNOME 2? i.e. the breakup of GNOME project when the real GNOME project migrated to GNOME 3. Mint could have gone with GNOME 3 itself. Always wondered why not GNOME 3 but GNOME 2 (i.e. MATE). Was it because of some issues with GNOME 3? And why not KDE?

I get the point that you are marking and what was made earlier in this thread. The Distro's team determines the best possible combination of DE/WMs to support. Based on the manpower and feedback from the community at large

It is striking that almost all of the Linux Distros provide Xfce, It must really be better than LXDE and other light weight DE.

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2024 4:49 am**

Gnome 2 used gtk2. MATE uses a similar interface but with the upgraded newer gtk3 toolkit, as far as I know.

But unlike Gnome devs, Mate/Mint devs chose to not to use client-side decorations in their gtk3 implementation.

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2024 11:27 am**

Two desktops, GNOME and Budgie in particular, are not in the maintainer's interest. GNOME is dependent on systemd to function properly. Budgie uses the GNOME stack, so it needs systemd as well. It is possible to use either of those desktops on MX Linux, but if you do so, then you should run MX Linux on systemd full-time to avoid session crashes. Personally, with a couple of workarounds, I've had fewer issues on Budgie than GNOME when testing those desktops on MX Linux.

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2024 10:09 pm**

So can we say that KDE continued to support or made their DE init agnostic?

The user can use any init system (SysVInit, SystemD, runit, etc) that they want when they use KDE. But the same could not be said for GNOME. Offcourse some of the applications even in KDE do not work unless in SystemD is used, for example Applications view in System Monitor. I am thinking of raising this in the KDE forum. But looking at their forum I come to the conclusion that there is not much active participation in KDE forums by their devs and/or experienced users.

This leads me to LXQt. It is supposed to be a merger of LXDE and Razor-qt. Has anyone tried that out?

Posted: **Tue Jun 18, 2024 2:46 am**

LXQt is basically a cut-down Plasma desktop. LXQt works best in Sparky Linux due to its curated themes. And yes, GNOME and Budgie are two desktops which will not run too well outside of systemd.

Posted: **Tue Jun 18, 2024 12:03 pm**

LinuxSpring1 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 10:09 pm The user can use any init system (SysVInit, SystemD, runit, etc) that they want when they use KDE. But the same could not be said for GNOME.

Not really a surprise, the GNOME devs are mostly employed by the same company that employs most of the systemd devs; Red Hat

Posted: **Tue Jun 18, 2024 12:28 pm**

jeffreyC wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 12:03 pm Not really a surprise, the GNOME devs are mostly employed by the same company that employs most of the systemd devs; Red Hat

There was a recent proposal to switch Red Hat Fedora to KDE. It's really more of a protest statement than any kind of technical change that will ever see the light of day, but it's nice to know some folks aren't lashed head and heart to whatever Lennart Poettering thinks is best.

Posted: **Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:24 pm**

And the Buddies of Budgie are working to part ways from the clutches of GNOME and evolve into an EFL-based Wayland platform on the future Budgie 11 release. This is a good move because the dependency on systemd and the Libadwaita theme is not OK.

Posted: **Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:38 pm**

Joseph DeGarmo wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:24 pm And the Buddies of Budgie are working to part ways from the clutches of GNOME and evolve into an EFL-based Wayland platform on the future Budgie 11 release. This is a good move because the dependency on systemd and the Libadwaita theme is not OK.

Do you mean EFL as in the base libraries of Enlightenment?!

That will be interesting to see because the main developer of Enlightenment and EFL has very little use for sysvinit or anything other than systemd. I know this because I use Enlightenment and EFL with the MX build-iso system for my project AV Linux and it has been a bumpy road because Enlightenment is not very well behaved with sysvinit and the current MX/antiX Live system is designed to work with sysvinit. Unless the Budgie devs are going to fork their own EFL I would be very surprised if they don't end up also getting steered toward using systemd at some point..

Posted: **Wed Jun 19, 2024 6:40 am**

Is this the Enlightenment that you are referring to? This is a new Window manager that I have come across. How is it? Looks like a more polished version of MacOS GUI.

Posted: **Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:03 am**

Yes, that is the one..

How long an answer do you want? I personally like it very much which has been to my detriment because it has not been overly well received by AVL Users. I would describe it as "maddeningly brilliant"...lol. It falls somewhere between a Window Manager and a Desktop Environment and it is incomplete in some important areas (ie it's File Manager is lacking some key features so it currently requires an outside File Manager, I use Thunar). It's compositing (window fades, shadows, transitions) are wonderfully rendered and yet Enlightenment is far lighter on RAM than XFCE so it gives you 'bling' at virtually no cost. It is not easy to theme, in fact it's themes are quite complicated to code so it is not easy to make it look like anything else so if you want to do a lot of theme customization it will frustrate you. It's developed with systemd in mind so using it without systemd is not impossible but not easy.. It is a DE with an artists temperament, beautiful while at the same time difficult and I weirdly find that aspect of it attractive..

Posted: **Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:46 am**

AVLinux wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:03 am it has not been overly well received by AVL Users.

When the change was made I wondered about it's success (acceptance). If someone wanted to 'get into' audio/video editing, by using your spin, they would have to learn a new DE first; as most are unfamiliar with E.
Best luck with your marvelous spin.

2³bit

Posted: **Wed Jun 19, 2024 11:44 am**

While installing Budgie on MX Linux would be really nice, you will need to boot to systemd mode to use it effectively since there are session bugs with it on sysvinit. Then, of course, you will need to manually install a bunch of GNOME and Cinnamon X applications from the LMDE 6 repositories, which requires more work.

Posted: **Wed Jun 19, 2024 1:25 pm**

AVLinux wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:38 pm
Joseph DeGarmo wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:24 pm And the Buddies of Budgie are working to part ways from the clutches of GNOME and evolve into an EFL-based Wayland platform on the future Budgie 11 release. This is a good move because the dependency on systemd and the Libadwaita theme is not OK.
Do you mean EFL as in the base libraries of Enlightenment?!

That will be interesting to see because the main developer of Enlightenment and EFL has very little use for sysvinit or anything other than systemd.

Which is sort-of odd considering this statement on the project homepage:

"Enlightenment is a Window Manager, Compositor and Minimal Desktop for Linux (the primary platform), BSD and any other compatible UNIX system."

Last time I looked systemd is exclusively for Linux.

Posted: **Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:00 am**

This weeks DistroWatch link

https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20240617

!/4 way down the page look for this article

The BSDs, X11, and Wayland
That has many links

Posted: **Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:43 am**

AVLinux wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:03 am Yes, that is the one..

How long an answer do you want? I personally like it very much which has been to my detriment because it has not been overly well received by AVL Users. I would describe it as "maddeningly brilliant"...lol. It falls somewhere between a Window Manager and a Desktop Environment and it is incomplete in some important areas (ie it's File Manager is lacking some key features so it currently requires an outside File Manager, I use Thunar). It's compositing (window fades, shadows, transitions) are wonderfully rendered and yet Enlightenment is far lighter on RAM than XFCE so it gives you 'bling' at virtually no cost. It is not easy to theme, in fact it's themes are quite complicated to code so it is not easy to make it look like anything else so if you want to do a lot of theme customization it will frustrate you. It's developed with systemd in mind so using it without systemd is not impossible but not easy.. It is a DE with an artists temperament, beautiful while at the same time difficult and I weirdly find that aspect of it attractive..

Thanks @AVLinux for that answer it was helpfull. I am surpised that it is a mini DE but with a lesser RAM footprint than XFCE. That is indeed impressive. I am assuming consequently it will be light on the CPU too. Is it as polished as KDE is?

artytux wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:00 am This weeks DistroWatch link

https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20240617

!/4 way down the page look for this article

The BSDs, X11, and Wayland
That has many links

Thanks @artytux that was helpfull.

So KDE can run out of the box but with some functionality missing on SysVInit. GNOME cannot and probably will not. Enlightenment with some effort from the user and so on. So can the developers and moderators of MX Linux comment on whether the support of KDE for SystVInit played a role for its selection against say GNOME or its variants or Enlightenment? @dolphin_oracle, @rokytnji.1, @uncle mark, @Jerry3904 and others can you please give your thoughts over here. I am not questioning that it was a correct or incorrect decision. Nor am I putting or asking to put any doubt about the soundness of choosing KDE for MX Linux.

Posted: **Thu Jun 20, 2024 8:21 am**

I think you are overthinking things. See post #4's answer. that is the reason we have xfce, fluxbox, and KDE releases. Because we want to. Its the beauty of running your own linux project, you can do what you want.

Posted: **Thu Jun 20, 2024 10:35 am**

As Mod I'm closing this thread. The question has been answered, as Lead Dev @dolphin_oracle points out, and no further discussion is needed.

MX Linux Forum

Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox

Re: Why only KDE, XFCe and Fluxbox