MX Linux Forum

Hello,

I assume this is a problem that can only be solved with the appropriate hardware and has nothing to do with the software category in computers. Neither the Intel Core i5-8265U Inspiron 3583 nor the other Yoga 11e will work for this chess issue.

In another forum I was told, without further comment something that I do not understand well but that seems to indicate that the issue has no solution with these PCs:

"Without GPU, Lc0 is very slow as CPU is not very well suited to evaluate neural networks.

On CPU only, Lc0 is indeed weaker than other top chess engines, even though it's still much stronger than any of human players."

--Lc0 is a chess program.

I need please that some of you professionals here recommend me which model or type of computer I should buy so that the chess programs can work correctly.

If you could indicate me some specific ones selling by Amazon it would be the most convenient for my case, thanks for any information in this regard.

Greetings

Lc0 is not available in a prebuilt package for MX or any other distro, but there are instructions available to build it from source code. See here:

https://lczero.org/play/download/

As this is an MX Linux forum, I think that your question is really out of our purview. It’s the sort of question that you should be putting to Tom's Hardware, or Linus Tech Tips et al.

The lc0 is already installed and it runn well in mxlinux, the problem is not with mxlinux, i think, but with my PC since the program play weak against other programs (for the reason he explain ...)

-- there should be a PC more convinient for chess programs.

Well, you kinda gave the answer yourself already.

You will need a PC with a dedicated GPU. I'm not familiar with chess programs, but when it comes to neural networks you'll probably want something as beefy as your budget allows. Does Lc0 have some sort of benchmarking function?

A quick google search recommends a 3080 which is in the area I'd have expected (around 2080/3070+): https://www.google.com/search?q=lc0+recommended+gpu

keos wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2023 8:25 am The lc0 is already installed and it runn well in mxlinux, the problem is not with mxlinux, i think, but with my PC since the program play weak against other programs (for the reason he explain ...)

-- there should be a PC more convinient for chess programs.

Where did you get it?

@ MadMax,

All what he said was:

"Without GPU, Lc0 is very slow as the CPU is not very suitable for evaluating neural networks."

No more details, and I don't know about computers, only about chess. I only make deductions, from what he said it seems that "it is not very suitable for evaluating neural networks" so it seems that this PC I have is not suitable for the most modern chess programs of today that come with a 'nnue' (something related/belongs to the field of computer science, nothing to do with chess).

I will see what to do with the information that you give in the link, I must be sure, I have to continue investigating more in the matter. Thank you.

@ j2mcgreg,

From github the program, https://github.com/LeelaChessZero/lc0/b ... E.md#linux
and the 'nnue' from: https://lczero.org/play/networks/bestnets/

Note:

Computer chess has taken a huge leap forward, now it seems that more efficient machines are needed if you want to get the most out of the programs; and if we are not an expert in computers ...

Well, ok, if you come from a non-computer-savvy standpoint, I can clarify this a little.

Every computer has a CPU (central processor unit) which is the "multi-purpose" chip of the system. It does most of the calculations needed to run the system and is incredibly versatile, but mainly does sequential calculations.

Then there are GPUs (graphics processor units) which are chips that are specialized for parallel workloads, which historically were graphics calculations, hence their usage in graphic cards. In recent years a lot more types of calculations were optimized for GPUs, like rendering, en/decoding, mining (which makes heavy use of hash algorithms), AI, neural networks, you name it. So it's not a surprise to me that a chess engine works a lot faster on a GPU.

In typical circumstances we are talking about a mid-level GPU being 100x faster than the fastest CPU on the market, so the difference can be huge.

So you built it from source code, good on you. Taking into account what MadMax says (above), I think that your best bet would be to assemble it yourself. I say this because, in order to get the gpu you need, you would have to buy a gaming rig. Most prebuilt gaming rigs use Nvidia graphics and given the problems the newest Nvidia cards can have with MX, I think that you are going to have a better end result if you use a high-end AMD card instead.

I think it is now quite clear to me, especially with what you say MadMax, that the matter is beyond my possibilities ...

-- I have heard that the great masters nowadays have computer consulting by specialists, now I understand the reason, the programs demand more and more every day and only a specialized technician can manage to put together such sophisticated gadgets ... and in the near future a kind of Cyborg-Frankenstein will play chess.

Well, it's not so depressing, at least I understand now what I didn't understand before.

Thanks to both of you, best regards!

@ MadMax,

Back to the point.

What he said:

"Without GPU, Lc0 is very slow as the CPU is not very suitable for evaluating neural networks."

I found this in wikipedia:

"NNUE runs efficiently on central processing units without a requirement for a graphics processing unit (GPU)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient ... al_network

I don't think I understand anything at all now.

I found this in wikipedia:
"NNUE runs efficiently on central processing units without a requirement for a graphics processing unit (GPU)."

NNUE is a neural net evaluation function used by many game programs to evaluate positions at the end of a calculated variation.

It is now used in stockfish which is in the MX repositories. I think stockfish 12 is available. It uses the NNUE evaluation function, though it is a option, and you can revert to the old stockfish hand crafted evaluation function.

The fully neural net programs like Lc0 are close in strength to stockfish, maybe a bit higher or lower in elo rating.
But stockfish 12 is plenty strong for me (of course crushes me a poor human) but also strong enough for deep analysis. It is currently rated at >3600 elo, so strong enough to crush Magnus! This is strong enough for me. As for a machine, any fast multi core Ryzen is awesome. I run stockfish with 10 threads on my 12 thread (6 core) machine, leaving two threads for MX and firefox.

Perhaps I forgot to say that my interest is only focused on engine competition; I'd like to see what you and others say about lc0 vs stockfish =

Here I see no such thing, even Koivisto an engine that is ranked #8 beats lc0 easily and is always under time pressure.

If you test it in inter-engine competition you will confirm what I am saying -- unless someone is using some built-in gadgetry which is what some seem to indicate ...

Thanks for your comentary

https://www.amd.com/en/products/profess ... ro-wx-9100
My dream card right there.
eats LC0 for breakfast. Of course you will need complimentary hardware to match.

Does not your program you want to run have a "system requirements" document? Why not consult with LCO for the expected system requirements and then meet them in your hardware? Hell, I don't even know what you are talking about and I don't see this as an MX issue.

Seaken64

As i said in my post ... This is what someone knowledgeable in lc0 says about requirements:

"Without GPU, Lc0 is very slow as CPU is not very well suited to evaluate neural networks.

On CPU only, Lc0 is indeed weaker than other top chess engines, even though it's still much stronger than any of human players."

But I'm not an expert in any of these ...

How should I interpret this, as a hardware issue only or a software issue. Because if it is only a hardware issue, as to my poor understanding it is, then I need another machine -- what do you recommend, which one...?.

Thanks.

You can play for free online against powerful (elo is adjustable) chess engines.
https://www.shredderchess.com/online/pl ... nline.html
https://www.sparkchess.co
https://www.365chess.com/play_computer_online.phpm/

Stockfish 15.1 in the MX (test) repos also includes a NNUE compiled into it at build time.

Wikipedia says:

Stockfish has consistently ranked first or near the top of most chess-engine rating lists and, as of February 2023, is the strongest CPU chess engine in the world. Its estimated Elo rating is over 3500.[3] It has won the Top Chess Engine Championship 13 times and the Chess.com Computer Chess Championship 19 times.

It has been ported to browser code and can run in a web page, too.

I had not seen this last post...

The problem with the chess engines that one sometimes looks to install is that not only does a player use "the best program" whether installed on their PC, or online, it's not about playing against the engines but installing them on the operating system so that the engines can play against each other and watch their ...

It's not about program vs. human but program vs. program!

That's why 'we' are looking for a better machine/hardware ...

-- I also think (suggestion) that maybe it would be good to have at least the top 5 chess engines available/updated in MXLinux,

"Open source"

http://ccrl.chessdom.com/ccrl/4040/

Greetings.



Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Can't you ask the other players on the chess forums what hardware they would recommend?

I did it, that was some time ago, I received different answers and I did not understand very well the issue so I abandoned the matter, I did not persist because at that time I was motivated by a single type of engine that did not run well on my machine but nowadays that engine is not of much interest,

-- You know what would always be a very good idea? that MXLinux would include the best engines in the system, that would always be of great value.

Thanks

keos wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:01 pm I did it, that was some time ago, I received different answers and I did not understand very well the issue so I abandoned the matter, I did not persist because at that time I was motivated by a single type of engine that did not run well on my machine but nowadays that engine is not of much interest,

-- You know what would always be a very good idea? that MXLinux would include the best engines in the system, that would always be of great value.

Thanks

Many users here are quite knowledge about hardware, so would be able to understand those responses and interpret them for you if you would like to post them...or could you link to that other forum's thread?

I don't remember now all the information ... because it was a few days before I posted here and that's why I started this thread, (Jan 22) you will see that nobody knew here either because logically they are not specialists in chess matters:

viewtopic.php?p=710113#p710113

In the first post of this thread I left part of one of the answers I got at that time in some chess forum:

viewtopic.php?p=710097#p710097

"Without GPU, Lc0 is very slow as CPU is not very well suited to evaluate neural networks.

On CPU only, Lc0 is indeed weaker than other top chess engines, even though it's still much stronger than any of human players."

But as I told you before I am no longer interested in the 'Lc0 issue', the engine that initially seemed to promise a lot has over time fallen far short of expectations.


Thank you very much.

keos wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:05 am No more details, and I don't know about computers, only about chess.

I think it can be narrowed down to few simple things.

1 - computer with dedicated graphic card - many cheaper computers come with already built into the motherboard graphic card, called also integrated graphic card. You need separate graphic card. Better it is (more expensive it is), better will chess program work.

2 - get AMD graphic card. There used to be many graphic cards producers, but now there are only two AMD and Nvidia. (plus Intel with their integrated cards). Since AMD works better with Linux (and MX) than Nvidia, buy computer, with separate and good AMD graphic card.

That is about it. I understand you would like to get a link to the computer on Amazon, but if no one here is doing what you do, no one will be able to provide you with the link. For this you really should ask again in chess related forums. Try few different, one of them may give you exact link. But generally, better, higher priced AMD graphic card, better will be results. Problem here is, if you buy already assembled computer with expensive graphic card, all other computer parts will be expensive, since computer will be built for games (games need the best graphic cards lots of memory etc) and you will be paying more, since you will be buying top notch gaming system. That is the reason why someone suggested building computer yourself. Buy good (this is all what really matter) AMD graphic card and build the system around it to make it cheaper.

Someone already linked you graphic card (I think, link didn't open to me). See what computers you can find on Amazon that has that graphic card.

This is what i have in my PC:

keos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:32 am This is what i have in my PC:

Device-1: Intel UHD Graphics 620 vendor: Dell driver: i915 v: kernel

Yes, you have graphic card, that is integrated into motherboard, from Intel which is good enough for every day use, but not good enough for all the extra computation, that chess needs.

But (as you already know by now) you need a good AMD card.

One cheapest way is, you find out which AMD card (of better ones) is supported by your curent hardware, can be put into your computer (I can't help there). You may also need to get better power supply, to support power needs of strong graphic card.

Another, more expensive way is, to get new computer with good AMD card or you build one yourself (or someone does it for you)

Yes "i understand", as far as i can remember, what you are saying is very close to what they told me at the chess forum -- that is why i posted here, because "i don't understand" what really do i have to get/build etc, etc, from ...

Any way thank you very much.

Basically.. get a compatible video card, unwrap it, put it in the computer, connect the cables if any, close stuff back up and put the cables that were in the on board in the video card.

Check in the bios if the onboard needs disabling, boot.


If any of that makes you freak out, take the thing to a shop and have them do it for you.

I did that after I had built this system, and then decided I wanted a better cooler. The case would be just yes/no fitting for the thing when I called in to see if they had it. Realized I didn't want to deal with all that, swapping and what not. Told them I am bringing it over.. you deal with that, put what fits in in, I'll grab a coffee, tell me when it is done, and I'll slide over the ransom money. :)

If you don't have the ability to do that, well.. that's that.. end of story, I guess. Or buy a better system.

keos wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 9:37 am "i don't understand" what really do i have to get/build etc, etc, from ...

You need good AMD card. Do you understand this? Right now you don't have good, you have slow, integrated, intel based card, not suitable for advanced chess computations.

What you need to do? Few things (I really shouldn't need to lay out these steps, you will need to do some work also

STEP 1 - first you need to figure out which exactly model of AMD to get. When I was in similar situation few years ago (not chess related) I went to reddit group, which is dedicated to AMD graphic cards and started to ask some questions and I have read many hundreds of posts, to learn at that time which cards were the best (too expensive for me), second best (still to expensive for me) third best... I slowly learned which 2-3 AMD cards would suit my needs with the price I was willing to pay.

STEP 2 - Then, when you narrow down with the AMD forum, which 2-3 cards are best suitable for you, then YOU need to decide, if you want to go cheaper or more expensive route. If more expensive route, just search on Amazon computers that contain one of those 2-3 AMD cards and you are done.

If you want to go less expensive route, then you need to check every of those 2-3 cards with your motherboard. Does your MB support it? If yes, buy it. Also check how much power this card needs and check how much power provides your current power supply you have now in your computer. You will most likely need to buy some good quality, stronger power supply. My guess is, your current is not strong enough.

And you are done. But you will need to put some work into this. Only you know if you want to go cheaper or more expensive route, you know which motherboard and power supply you have. You know if you want to buy more expensive of those 2-3 AMD cards or less expensive. YOU need to go to AMD forum and start asking questions and start reading bunch of past posts.

But seems like you don't want to do all this work, you just want final link to computer to buy.

As I said before, if no one is doing the same thing here, (chess) no one can really help you.

I would throw out few AMD card names but I simple don't know them. That research I did was several years ago. By now, there are all different cards on the market. (and I don't even remember which ones were best then)

The only way I could give you definite answer (get this AMD card, get this computer from amazon) is, if I drop all I'm doing and next few days start learning all about current AMD cards. Sorry, I have other priorities.

So, I laid out a path, what steps you need to do. The rest is up to you. Good luck

The OP has a laptop, which makes it quite difficult to add a discrete GPU.

Stevo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 4:45 pm The OP has a laptop, which makes it quite difficult to add a discrete GPU.

Ahh, didn't know, thanks. Then there is only one route, new computer. OP need to do some research on good newer AMD cards and match results with the budget OP have for this project.

Buck Fankers wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 4:38 am Since AMD works better with Linux (and MX) than Nvidia, buy computer, with separate and good AMD graphic card.

Is this really true anymore though? I've actually heard the opposite from somebody else somewhat recently.

My Nvidia works peachy with Linux, always has.

Just needs an extra step installing the dedicated software, which is provided in the menu, and xorg=nvidia added to the boot line when you boot the snapshot.


It was a different story when we had to sgfxi, I remember those days

Arnox wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:45 pm

Buck Fankers wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 4:38 am Since AMD works better with Linux (and MX) than Nvidia, buy computer, with separate and good AMD graphic card.

Is this really true anymore though? I've actually heard the opposite from somebody else somewhat recently.

If memory is not playing tricks on me, just recently I saw on this MX forum post from developer, mentioning this, that's why I included: "(and MX)", but for the life of me, I can' remember the name of the developer or title of the subject/thread.

Things may have changed, I wrote based on the past experiences. Just to be on a safe side, I will not do it any more, since I don't have recent first person experience supporting this.

Anyway, too bad, no one can (well at least I can't) just spell out good card name, that would be suitable for OP.

Gentlemens, you who are up in the clouds over there, could you please, please ... download some rain for this wretch down here?

Which computer should I buy...? -- Any links on Amazon?

Thanks!

keos wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:54 am Gentlemen, you who are up in the clouds over there, could you please, please ... download some rain for this wretch down here?

Which computer should I buy...? -- Any links on Amazon?

Thanks!

That's really an impossible task until you state the marketplace you live in and your budget since computers and their prices can vary widely.

edited to add that when you give us your location, the state, province or nearest big city will suffice

Amazon-USA

budget? -- as economical as possible!

June and July are the months when the current inventory is cleared out in favour of the new models that will arrive in August for the back to school push. Given what the others have said about a chess engines specific requirements, I think that a gaming laptop like this one would probably be the best fit:

https://www.canadacomputers.com/product ... _id=233762

or this one:
https://www.staples.ca/products/3024563 ... ws-10-home

Keep in mind that technology support in Linux generally trails Windows by about a year, so older models like these will likely give you less or no hassles when you install MX.

Right now you should be able to get a similarly spec'd model for a really decent price.

I just need to be sure about it:


https://www.amazon.com/MSI-Katana-GF66- ... 103&sr=8-1


https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Acer+AN515-4 ... =nav_bb_sb

Are these PC the same ...?

Not quite: the Acer Nitro that you linked to has a newer 12th gen cpu. Really good price though.

Just my 2 cents. If you really want to compete in computer chess and need A LOT of power, I'd recommend you rather go for a desktop system than a laptop. Cost/performance and heat dissipation should be much better for these.

MadMax wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:15 am Just my 2 cents. If you really want to compete in computer chess and need A LOT of power, I'd recommend you rather go for a desktop system than a laptop. Cost/performance and heat dissipation should be much better for these.

That's true to an extent, but money is an issue for @keos and high end desktops definitely have "sellers' market" pricing.

Are laptops that cheap nowadays? I'm not super up-to-date when it comes to recent hardware, but I'd expected for similar performance a laptop would always be the more expensive choice.

Also note the mobile version of a GPU has A LOT less performance than the desktop version even if the naming is the same.

See for example here: https://technical.city/en/video/GeForce ... e-RTX-3060

MadMax wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:47 am Also note the mobile version of a GPU has A LOT less performance than the desktop version even if the naming is the same.

I will second @MadMax here. In the past, for the same amount of money, you always got better performance with desktop.

Or saying it other ways, same performance will cost less with desktop.

With laptop, you get portability. With desktop, you get performance. OP should be able to save money or get better results with the desktop comparing to laptop.

MadMax wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:47 am Are laptops that cheap nowadays? I'm not super up-to-date when it comes to recent hardware, but I'd expected for similar performance a laptop would always be the more expensive choice.

Also note the mobile version of a GPU has A LOT less performance than the desktop version even if the naming is the same.

See for example here: https://technical.city/en/video/GeForce ... e-RTX-3060

The problem with the comparison is that nowhere are the specs for the laptop and desktop that were used as test benches, listed. Without that information, the comparison is meaningless.

This is about getting keos the most bang for his limited budget. The problem with desktops is that the market for them has shrunk quite dramatically over the last few years and has become a sellers market where prices remain fairly constant year over year. A desktop equipped with a RTX-3060 (but otherwise similarly spec’d to a gaming laptop) is in the $1200 -- $1300 range and a monitor that will get the best out of that card will ad another $200 -- $300 to the overall price. On the other hand, the laptop market is highly competitive due to economy of scale:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale

This means that while laptops buyers will see substantial price cuts during the annual June -July inventory clearouts the same won’t be true for desktop buyers. This is key to keos’s situation. He can afford a marked down gaming laptop, but a slightly discounted gaming desktop is still beyond his reach.

https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaPad-C ... =8-2-fkmr0

Couldn't this be a better candidate?

Personally, I don't like the build quality of the Ideapads. Your mileage may vary.

I understand, they are considered the cheapest on the market but if it is capable of "doing the job" ... and if Linux is installable ...

What do you think ...? trying to put yourself in my situation ...

keos wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 3:21 pm I understand, they are considered the cheapest on the market but if it is capable of "doing the job" ... and if Linux is installable ...

What do you think ...? trying to put yourself in my situation ...

What's the most you would be comfortable spending?

j2mcgreg wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:56 am The problem with desktops is that the market for them has shrunk quite dramatically over the last few years and has become a sellers market where prices remain fairly constant year over year.

Ah, I see, had no clue, my bad and thanks

What's the most you would be comfortable spending?

No more than $500 at full cost.

I have this particular laptop and if you can find one at this price, it's a great deal:
https://www.staples.ca/products/3029123 ... ws-11-home

Otherwise

Try to find this one (or similar):
https://www.staples.ca/products/3002235 ... ws-11-home

Not sure of OP's location, and not attempting a sales job, but:
https://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php?pa ... eexpired=1

Remember when you go ahead and buy online: always get it from somewhere you don't have to jump through hoops to get warranty sorted, if needed.

With 500$ you don't have much buying power for laptops, not much wiggle room.

But isn't Intel UHD another weak Intel integrated cad not suitable for advanced chess computations?

j2mcgreg wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:27 pm https://www.staples.ca/products/3002235 ... ws-11-home

Here is comparison for Intel UHD 10'th generation, card is placed at the bottom (comparing with other laptop graphic cards - stand alone desktop cards are stronger)

https://laptoping.com/gpus/product/intel-uhd-u/

If I would be in OP shoes. I would with 500$ budget decided to put about half of the money into stand alone graphic card, and the other half I would use, to build the rest of desktop computer. Since I don't know how much other parts cost now a days, it may be 200$ for graphic card and 300$ for the rest.

I would go to the forum, dedicated to graphic cards and start reading and asking questions for best suitable stand alone card in around 200$ price range. Where in this price range I would get best bang for a buck. Once I find out which card would best suit my needs, I would order it and get the rest of parts to make me ~500$ desktop, and I bet it would yield best possible results for the money.

If OP can't do this himself, some technical friend could do. Or some computer shop.

But since OP would like some link to laptop with 500$, upper links are probably best one can do... Hope OP will not be disappointed with chess computation results

@Buck Fankers wrote:

If I would be in OP shoes. I would with 500$ budget decided to put about half of the money into stand alone graphic card, and the other half I would use, to build the rest of desktop computer. Since I don't know how much other parts cost now a days, it may be 200$ for graphic card and 300$ for the rest.

Unfortunately, you are way off the mark here. Using the least expensive parts available, building the desktop equivalent of that Asus laptop (or as close as I could get) would cost $750.00 and adding a monitor and keyboard would push the overall price to $890.00. The days of it being cheaper to build your own as opposed to buying off the shelf are long, long gone.
I agree with you though that if he could push his budget by another $100.00 he'd have a better selection of laptops to choose from. I also think that he has abandoned the idea of purchasing a chess specific machine and is now looking to just upgrade from the machines he currently has.

j2mcgreg wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 7:13 am Unfortunately, you are way off the mark here. Using the least expensive parts available, building the desktop equivalent of that Asus laptop (or as close as I could get) would cost $750.00 and adding a monitor and keyboard would push the overall price to $890.00

Dangit, it is so bad? I though your previous response was meant for already assembled systems, that's why I mentioned self building. Ugh!

I see, I'm living in the past. That's because Linux allows you to run it very nice on any old clunker that comes under your hands. All my computers are old!

OK, sorry all for misleading, I didn't know things are so much different now. What happened with cheap China parts?!? World is really going downhill! I better treat gently my old clunkers, they are more valuable than I though.

I can't find those prices around here on Amazon-USA that you indicate, I know j2mcgreg doesn't like this one but I'm still mortified by the temptation:

https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaPad-C ... =8-2-fkmr0

keos wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:37 pm I can't find those prices around here on Amazon-USA that you indicate, I know j2mcgreg doesn't like this one but I'm still mortified by the temptation:

https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaPad-C ... =8-2-fkmr0

You asked for my opinion and I gave it, but , you are the one who is making the purchase and the decision has to be yours.

My deceptions or my decisions?

However you twist his words is ALSO your responsibility.

keos wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:37 pm I can't find those prices around here on Amazon-USA that you indicate, I know j2mcgreg doesn't like this one but I'm still mortified by the temptation:

https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaPad-C ... B09YWMXYQG

We established, for your purposes (chess) the most important part is graphic card. I would skip the one with integrated intel card, I posted link to it's performance already.

So, question is, which one of the two is better. Did you compare them?

Edit, ignore comparing bellow, I was mistakenly comparing CPU's. Your link has better CPU, but it is GPU, graphic card that matter. One has vega 9 card. Another one didn't look. Google them the way I did with CPU bellow and find out which ones has better graphic card.


Here is comparison link: (but unfortunately for CPU's, my bad) - do the same for GPUs from each laptop you are considering
https://versus.com/en/amd-ryzen-3-5300u ... en-5-5625u

Bonus off topic post

Link to Lenovo computer you posted:

https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaPad-C ... =8-2-fkmr0

Link to the same computer:
https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaPad-C ... B09YWMXYQG

Check the links, both works and both give you the same product. So what is the difference? Your link is filled with all kind of tracking stuff. This is why link is so long. What you want to do is, you always cut the rest of the link, you just keep it up to the product number as you see in my link.

And if you use someones link, don't just click on it, copy/paste it into address bar, then delete all after product number. In amazon links all that start with: /ref= and everything else to the left is for tracking purposes. With other links, do some testing. Usually you can delete part that start with: ? and everything to the left.

Don't give these leach companies more data than you already have to

OK my last on this topic, good luck and hope chess computations works the way you want and expect

I will offer this last piece of advice. Before you place the order with Amazon, go to one of the big box electronics stores: Staples, Best Buy, Microcentre et al and check out the floor model:
-- you want to look for signs of wear and tear. There shouldn't be any, but if there are that's a good indication that it might not fare well under normal usage
-- you want to examine the keyboard closely. Are all the normal control keys present? When I was shopping for my ProBook's replacement, I saw a very nicely
spec'd Acer Aspire 3 at Best Buy that didn't have a dedicated Delete key. What's the keyboard like to type on?
-- are the USB ports easily accessible? I've seen laptops where the ports were so close together that you couldn't have two devices plugged in at the same time
-- what's the touchpad like to use?
-- is the screen easy to look at?
-- how heavy is it?

All of these and more are things that you can't tell from a picture on the Amazon. Certainly buy it from Amazon if that's the best price, but you can save yourself a lot of anxiety if you check it out physically,first.

j2mcgreg wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 2:40 pm I will offer this last piece of advice.

Good idea!
And I made mistake in my previous post, I compared CPU's (I'm tired need to stop posting now) so I deleted most of what I wrote.

but you can save yourself a lot of anxiety if you check it out physically,first.

Thanks!

Just in case someone is interested in the specific subject of chess.
And as you recommended me to consult in a Chess forum I have gone to this one that, as far as I know, seems to me the best that exists ... here I leave the link of the forum where I consulted ...

https://outskirts.altervista.org/forum/ ... 02b#p57238