MX Linux Forum

I am new to MX Linux, and am making the switch, because Windows 7 is nearing its end of life. I know several other people who have Windows 7, and don't want Windows 10. If the transition from Win7 to MX-Linux were not too complicated for the casual user, there could be many other Linux converts over the coming months. Dual booting Win7 and MX-Linux is a logical first step, and gives the user time to explore Linux applications at their leisure.

There are many videos describing dual booting Windows & Linux, but they differ in their approach, which can be confusing for someone who is not familiar to Linux. There seems to be many ways the casual user could screw up a dual boot install by trying to follow the online instructions. One example would be to improperly install GRUB, which could render the PC unbootable.

With this in mind, it might be worthwhile to develop a MX-Linux install option that explicitly addresses add dual booting MX-Linux to a typical existing Win7 PC (either Legacy or UEFI). The current installer provides an "Automatic" option which would blow away Windows, and a "Custom" option which requires an understanding of Linux partitions and boot loaders. A third "Dual Boot with Windows" option would be handy.

Just a thought,
Ed

That's already in the install....

Edit: Here's the screenshot re: your Window setting request:

No it is not.

The user likely means a fully automatic option to shrink the win partition and then install mx linux next to it.

Yes. I agree with the suggestion.

As a real example, about one month ago, a new MX user (who was not that new to Linux but coming from Mint) thought MX would do that and erased Windows . On my first Linux days (with Mint) I appreciated that option and found it so "subtle". I believe and hope MX would do that soon.

Just by the way, the one in the picture: "Instal ... for ... Windows" confuses many new users. Maybe it can be simplified to "Install Grub" (or so) and an explanation says (on left or below) that "Grub bootloader will handle starting all systems including Windows if found .." etc

The Windows user should be responsible for shrinking the Windows partition, NOT the Linux install. If you want dual boot space for Linux, then you boot into Windows and use Disk Manager to create that space for Linux, then you boot up the Live Linux USB and create a new Linux partition within that newly created space (preferably on a whole different drive). I wouldn't trust Linux to safely resize NTFS partitions with a ten foot pole. Disk Manager in Windows knows exactly how to do this safely.

With that said Windows 10 is far superior to Windows 7 in every way imaginable. Learn how to debloat it, remove all telemetry and shut it up for good and you have a system far more powerful than Windows 7 ever was. And with that said MX19 destroys both in every way imaginable, lol. I love my Windows 10 install, but I love my MX19 install even more... I own over 50 Windows 7 licenses and will not ever use it again, that was soooo last decade.

There would be risks to the users data if a Linux installer attempted to take charge of a dual boot setup. The first step needs to be to defrag the drive. This must be done within Windows. The second step is to shrink the Windows install to create free space. This is most safely done within Windows.

The best way for users of Windows machines to try out MX Linux is by using a USB 3 drive with persist_all set. As long as it is used in a USB 3 port, the speed will be great.

Perhaps a very simple way to set up such a USB drive might be a good option?

Chris

If you have a desktop and because hard disk need not to that big to install just Linux like MX Linux on it & such small hard disks are so cheap, consider another way of installing I prefer for many years.
How?
I installed completely independent on 3 disks the following OS:
1. Windows 7 later 10
2. Hackintosh (temporarily)
3. Linux, first Debian and now MX linux as test environment

So there is no extra boot manager installed on one of the disks as often with updates boot managers may get hurt... and you need to repair them and hope you are successful with that....

But how do you control your OS boot then?
Well... most motherboards do have a modern bios that contains a boot manager that becomes active after using F8 or F9 (look your MB manual..) and just choose the hard disk to boot that prioritize the OS you wanna start.

Even SSD's are so cheap, if you want you can do that, for the moment I'm running only Windows from the SSD. But that may change soon so I may choose tol et MX Linux also run from a SSD.

My data are always completely separated on the 4th hard disk, which makes backing up easier.
Depending upon you OS you need to choose what format your data disk needs to be in order to put data on it from your OS.

This way of working is so much more relaxing compared to use 1 bootmanager like GRUB or whatever else...

To be safe I always disconnect the other 2 disks when I install the 3rd OS, you never know.... I might make a mistake....

Give it a thought, this approach.

@chrispop99
A persistant bootable live USB is a very nice way to avoid boot manager complexity. In fact what you do is similar to what I do, but then on a free other hard disk.
For newbies I consider that easier than making a persistant bootable live USB, so it is up to them and look in the mirror...
Remember..: To be safe I always disconnect the other 2 disks when I install the 3rd OS, you never know.... you may also make a mistake....

You also can just make a normal USB bootable using Rufus under Windows and let it put the MX-live iso on that ....you have less options, but you can try MX Linux by booting from the USB stick.

Why do people have to stop using Win7 because it is unsupported by MS?

I turned off MS support (& phone home) on my 2x Win7 installs years ago. As I consider MS to be a threat to individual privacy (& some).

If someone is looking to move to Linux, then it is not due to critical business software that will no longer be supported.

If a person doesn't go looking for trouble on the web, then they don't need to run anti-virus-malware software on Windows either.

Not a rant, just how it is.

Of course the best way is to shrink Windows partition within Windows, then open place manually with Gparted etc. But from the viewpoint of a newcomer from Windows...

Frankly: Linux Mint can do that !

Just as they say: Next, Next, Finish .

What would be nice is if there was a choice in the installer to do an automated installation using only the unallocated space on a disk rather than the entire disk. Then Windows users could defrag and shrink their Windows installations from within the Windows Disk Manager, then boot the MX installation medium and install MX without having to manually create partitions first, and let the installer take care of partitioning. That being said, I don't think there are any Linux distro installers that can do that. All the auto install selections I've seen will nuke the entire disk (along with Windows if it exists.)

I'm afraid the onus is on the computer's owner to either do their research and due diligence prior to installing a different OS and figure everything out, or take the computer to a shop and have it done. Installing an operating system, especially in a dual-boot configuration with Windows and particularly on a modern UEFI system, is probably not a job for someone who knows very little about computers. It's like swapping the engine in your car: not a job for a casual driver who knows little about automotive mechanics.

it's win-7 that is real easy to get an working Dual_Boot System, up & working,
& whereas that win-10 does require a bit more work, which can also confuse any windows user.

I didn't have any issues really.. but then again I DO have separate SSDs for the installs.

For desktops thats really THE solution to avoid problems, why ignore the presence of the available bios/UEFI bootmanager, avoiding the unnecessarily complexity of an extra.... bootmanager like Grub.
As in my laptop I can replace the DVD player with an extra hard disk unit (HDD caddy) I apply the same method there.

For unexperienced people... never do the learning stage on your good system (desktop/laptop), you can get easily for little or for free old computers that are stil suite suitable to learn how to deal with this problem. You can use a Windows installation for 30 days, and after that you have to reinstall it, and then you can learn how to install MX Linux on a second disk and try whatever you want ... as it its just a test machine.

In a similar way I learned Linux auto didactically in the mid nineties. Got a very cheap or free 486DX PC, bought a book with a CD (Red Hat 6.1) as downloading through a land line phone internet connection in those days was not affordable for so much data...

My 1st real good & very profitable built was to make a Linux (RH 6.1) netwerk server which included a cable router setup, cloning the MAC address to circumvent the original cable router protection.... which we shared with the neighbors.. and thus have shared paid access to 4 MBps cable speed instead of land line speed (before ADSL...) of max 48 kBps....

ForWIW wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:12 pm Nice article here ... https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/win ... guide.html ... basically debunks fearmongering regarding Win 7 EOL.

Good wrap.

ForWIW wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:12 pm Nice article here ... https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/win ... guide.html ... basically debunks fearmongering regarding Win 7 EOL.

Thanks for this!!!

ForWIW wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:12 pm Nice article here ... https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/win ... guide.html ... basically debunks fearmongering regarding Win 7 EOL.

There is a glaring omission in this article: in the event that you are the victim of financial fraud, identity theft, a ransom attack, an electronic banking error, etc and your insurance provider(s) determines that you are using an outdated operating system, you will not be covered for any losses.

ForWIW wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:21 am @j2mcgreg
Not necessarily true unless, of course, you don't have a secure router (most ISPs do ... change your admin password once in a while) and don't use good up-to-date web browsers like FF or Chrome with ad-blocking/no-script extensions (and KEEPING them up-to-date, which people often fail to check/do on Win7) ... setup a good firewall ... also try not do personal stuff when hooked up outside of home unless you're SURE the internet connection is secure ... most of what you say is true only if people do dumb things while on the net ... same things could happen on any OS ... wonder if insurance companies would cover Linux systems if any such things occurred? They'd probably say "Duh, huh, what, maybe that's the problem? Sorry ..."

Every insurance policy has a clause that requires the insured to practice 'due diligence' in the care of their property and that includes keeping things in good repair. Having a lapsed OS would fail the latter. And remember it's the insurance company's call, not the consumer's,that matters since they will look for any 'viable' reason to refuse a claim.

I converted my Wife's Win7 machine (well it failed catastrophically and would not boot after 6 years of a good run) to MX linux. She is doing fine with it, like many non-power users, the browser is the center of the work, and firefox looks like firefox on MX.

She does some e-bay and needs to process images. I set up her cannon ink jet with the canon .deb, it works perfectly. Last week she urgently needed some docs scanned, I though now I have to go find a driver for that... but no it was so easy, type scan into the search box, select simple-scan. And all worked automagically.

The remaining thing is tax software...Will Turbotx keep running on Windows7? If so, I will reinstall it in a different case, and upgrade her 6 year old motherboard to a Ryzen for linux, with more RAM. If I can do turbotax a few years, just keeping Win7 around for a few years.

Or, can I run a VM, with windows and tax software? Does anyone do that?

I was faced with the very same problem, but made the mistake of switching to Win10 before going to MX...
Going from Win7 /Win10 to MX is a big jump if your're not familiar with Linux OS.
Personally, I found the grueling 177-page MX user manual not very helpful as an MX 'quick start' for Windows converts.

That said, don't hesitate to jump to MX, its a great distro...you'll have to pay the price of a 'learning curve' but the MX Forum has a great bunch of folks that will help you make the transition.

AA BB wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:17 pm
Personally, I found the grueling 177-page MX user manual not very helpful as an MX 'quick start' for Windows converts.

Feel free to PM Jerry, who does the documentation among other things, about volunteering to write one.

I will echo what others have already said - Installing an Operating System is not for newbies or casual computer users. I like the idea of encouraging Windows 7 users to try Linux. But I would never suggest that they attempt to set up a dual boot. The suggestion to use a different computer for Linux makes much more sense. Let's not put this on the developers to figure out how to set up a dual boot for a newbie.

What I would do is offer to set up their old Windows 7 computer with the new MX system as a second operating system. I would get their permission and do it for them. But they have to agree to the risks and have a full backup, or pay me to buy the external USB drive to back everything up before we get started. I would suggest that they first consider using a second computer for the new MX OS instead of dual booting. I guarantee they will take my advice and get the second computer. Why? because they have no idea what I am talking about! But they know I understand computers and trust me.

If you understand computers and want to try setting up a dual boot then that is fine. But it is on you, not the developers. And most of them probably know how to help you and a lot of us users also know how to do it and can help. But there is a learning process and it is not for newbies. If you are a newbie you must be willing to risk your existing Windows OS. If you are not then don't attempt it.

Seaken64

A new Linux user can boot with MX/antiX on a USB memory stick. If they choose they can get pretty sophisticated about it too (particularly re. persistant storage).

I think that is an ideal way to get started with Linux.

handy wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:57 pm A new Linux user can boot with MX/antiX on a USB memory stick. If they choose they can get pretty sophisticated about it too (particularly re. persistant storage).

I think that is an ideal way to get started with Linux.

I agree. Some MX users even use the LiveUSB system exclusively and never put the system on the hard disk. But one still has to be aware. One needs to learn enough about how Linux works to avoid damaging their Windows OS.

Seaken64

seaken64 wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:44 pm I will echo what others have already said - Installing an Operating System is not for newbies or casual computer users. I like the idea of encouraging Windows 7 users to try Linux. But I would never suggest that they attempt to set up a dual boot. The suggestion to use a different computer for Linux makes much more sense. Let's not put this on the developers to figure out how to set up a dual boot for a newbie.

What I would do is offer to set up their old Windows 7 computer with the new MX system as a second operating system. I would get their permission and do it for them. But they have to agree to the risks and have a full backup, or pay me to buy the external USB drive to back everything up before we get started. I would suggest that they first consider using a second computer for the new MX OS instead of dual booting. I guarantee they will take my advice and get the second computer. Why? because they have no idea what I am talking about! But they know I understand computers and trust me.

If you understand computers and want to try setting up a dual boot then that is fine. But it is on you, not the developers. And most of them probably know how to help you and a lot of us users also know how to do it and can help. But there is a learning process and it is not for newbies. If you are a newbie you must be willing to risk your existing Windows OS. If you are not then don't attempt it.

Seaken64

The easy way to dual boot Windows and MX is to install Linux Mint first as a dual boot with Windows. Mint prepares the hard drive and automatically shrinks it without a potential newbie having to intervene. Then insert the MX and install it using the previously created partition prepared by Mint.

Quite why this can be included with 'Buntu distros and left out with Debian based systems, is a conundrum. Perhaps an admin can comment?

I think a dev is much better suited to comment on this than an admin

Eadwine Rose wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:32 pm I think a dev is much better suited to comment on this than an admin

Let's use the word 'expert' instead. Dev is a shorthand version meaning .... what?

@turtlebay777,

I understand. Yes, I know ubuntus/mint do this. But I stay by my comment. NOT for newbies. Before you attempt this make sure you understand what can go wrong and be prepared. Have your Windows backed up and licenses ready. A second hard drive or SSD is better. A second computer is better yet.

Seaken64

turtlebay777 wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:35 pm

Eadwine Rose wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:32 pm I think a dev is much better suited to comment on this than an admin

Let's use the word 'expert' instead. Dev is a shorthand version meaning .... what?

Dev is short for developer, in this case of MX Linux.
Admin is short for administrator of the forum.

So unless what you want only relates to this forum you need a developer of the distro

SkOrPn » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:58 pm
" The Windows user should be responsible for shrinking the Windows partition, NOT the Linux install. If you want dual boot space for Linux, then you boot into Windows and use Disk Manager to create that space for Linux, then you boot up the Live Linux USB and create a new Linux partition within that newly created space"

SkOrPn has the correct approach. I find using MX GParted somewhat confusing and would not use it on a disk containing Windows NFTS files.

Before shrinking your Windows drive run:
1 Window 'Disk Cleanup' to get rid of un-needed files, especially previous versions
2 Run crap Uninstaller https://www.bcuninstaller.com/ to remove Win all apps you can live without, especially those using lots of disk space
3 if you have a HDD, defrag it (or trim your SSD)
4 Finally, shrink your drive using Windows 'Disk Management' tool

You, should be able to install MX with 20GB or so of unallocated space

if you cant get >15 GB of free space, you need to: swap the disk you use to boot Windows, with a disk that has enough free space to install MX

I completely uninstalled windows7 and installed mx linux. Because, I don't really like windows 10 and I can't do the customizations I desire. (Love Multiboot or VirtualBox)

I've used ubuntu for years, but it's nice, but mxlinux is very lightweight and beautifully designed, but the only problem I'm having now is that some of the applications in the mxlinux package installer can't be installed. Also I am still looking for a solution for xrdp.

I'm glad for the moment it's running pretty fast and stable, time will tell.

rapit wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:39 am

the only problem I'm having now is that some of the applications in the mxlinux package installer can't be installed. Also I am still looking for a solution for xrdp.

which apps?

do a thread
i am sure the clever types will help you get them installed

I started to experiment with Linux distros 1-2 years ago. In my personal environment nobody uses Linux, not one. Most people don't know what it is.

One of my earliest attempts was to install Lubuntu, Mint and Manjaro on an old Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo Pro V3515 Laptop with VIA graphics chipset VN896.
Man... that was a consistent pain.

But despite all setbacks the fast development and increasing number of user-friendly Linux distributions kept my attentions. Then, one day I installed MX-18 on my HP 6710b Laptop.
First I received a lot of error messages during the boot process. But by using the "video=SVIDEO-1:d" option they were all blown off and this age-old pal ran like hell.
I upgraded to 4 GB RAM placed a T9300 cpu and a SSD. What a pleasant experience!

After this breakthrough I installed MX on an old ASRock G41M-S3 with an E6300 DualCore overclocked @ 3,5 GHz. - Direct hit!
At present, we have 4 devices running with MX-19 at home. Two of them are sharing a dual boot with Windows 7 without probs.

And no, I will definitely not switch to Windows 10. I'll keep Windows 7 for the next 2-3 years on the latest update and with a recent Firefox browser.
For special purposes like a complete firmware recovery of the router this is irreplaceable. In some rare cases you have to have the continuing ability to run an .exe file.

In 2-3 years when there are no Firefox updates available anymore I'll cut the internet connection in Windows 7. At that time there will be even more options.
So far my personal strategy.

Cheers

How to continue using Win7 safely while migrating to linux?

Firstly, take a hdd clone of your existing Windows and put that to one side, then do any changes to the clone… knowing you always have the original to return to if necessary.
I bought a USB3 dual SATA hdd docking bay for about 25 quid off Aliexpress, plus a 2TB hdd for about 60. Without using USB it allows stand-alone cloning of 1 drive to another (takes about 5 hours for 2TB). With USB it allows USB3 computer access to 1 or 2 SATA HDDs or SSDs.


Secondly, end of Win7 support only causes Win7 to become more vulnerable if it is accessing the internet. So if your 'must have' Windows apps do not require internet access, don't connect it to the internet - simply use an inherently safer linux for all internet browsing and uploads/downloads.

If you can't avoid going online with Win7, make sure to use a good VPN, firewall, and antivirus…
and only visit essential URLs... aimless surfing with vulnerabilities in a sea of sharks is asking for trouble.
And don't forget to turn off Windows automatic updates, cos nothing good can come of it!


Thirdly, if you really want to escape your Windows addiction you need a migration strategy.
My strategy was to reduce the cloned Win7 partition to minimal, then add a 120Gbn MX19 dual boot partition, and use the remainder as an NTFS data partition (if you use something other than MX you may also need to create a swap partition).
Install the dual-boot MX, plus VMware Workstation 15.5 - which allows 30 day trial period, but it also installs VMplayer as well anyway which does not expire (Workstation allows multiple virtual machines to be running, whereas VMplayer only runs 1 vm at a time).
It must be at least VMware 15.5 to work as host on the latest linux's and to allow latest linux's as vm clients. Note that for VMware on MX you will also need to add the vmmon tweaks to rc.local (search the forum).

You could now create a new Win7 virtual machine if you wished… and you could use the licence key from the original because you are never going to have both running at the same time.
You can continue to use the original Win7 for as long as necessary, but the long term aim is to migrate as much as possible to MX. So rather than continue using your original Win7, better to install any indispensable Win7 apps onto a new Win7 virtual machine.

At your leisure you can pick a Win7 app that you use and try to find an MX alternative (it doesn't just have to be MX of course, because you could run other virtual machine OS's which may offer their own unique advantages).

If you cannot find a linux alternative (yet) then install that indispensable windows app to your new Win7 vm.
As time goes by you will migrate many apps to linux alternatives, and build up a minimal Win7 vm of your windows indispensables… so eventually you will be able to do without the original Win7 completely, even though it will always still be available and untouched just in case.


Running Win7 in a vm offers several advantages…

Easy to turn off guest internet access.
Easy for vm guest to share/transfer files and folders with vm host.
Easy to take snapshots as backups, or copy the entire vm to run elsewhere, or for safe keeping.
Easy to relocate clients to other computers (VMware hosts package their specific hardware drivers into generic vm client drivers).
Easy to run other client VM's to benefit from other features that MX may not have.
Easy to relocate vm clients to VMware running on different OS's.


The combination of MX and virtual machines provides for a very robust, convenient, and simple to use system.
I'm an XP survivor, and now a Win7 survivor, but I won't be suffering any other MS disasters (have even moved from Skype to Viber).
Win 10 is MS slavery, but Win8.1 could be a short term alternative, either to run some windows indispensables, or to use as a VMware host.
It would only be a short-term stop-gap because Win8 users will also inevitably be dumped so that MS can force users to pay for Win10, and eventually all the Win10 users will be similarly dumped to upgrade to a successor. That's the dark shadow cast by any business model which profits at the detriment of its tied customer base… and is the original reason I chose MX Linux rather than the more ubiquitous Ubuntu or its Mint derivative... and am very pleased I did.

Electroguard wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:36 am How to continue using Win7 safely while migrating to linux?

1. Pull out ethernet cable / disconnect wifi.
2. Boot into windows.

Done.

Eadwine Rose wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:54 am

Electroguard wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:36 am How to continue using Win7 safely while migrating to linux?

1. Pull out ethernet cable / disconnect wifi.
2. Boot into windows.

Done.

LMAO!

I have destroyed one SSD drive trying to dual boot with MX. It is a great distro and I have made a Super Windows 10 version of it. Just looks like Windows 10.

Unlike Mint and Peppermint this needs really careful following of the installation I have now put it it on three machines and it has taken me all yesterday though I wrote a very careful procedure for you to follow. See ginamiller.co.uk/MXsuper.php.

I am now using it on a HDD with now 4 operating systems a quadruple boot. I had to add an extra operating system just to fix the install problem as at the end of the install of MX it said Sorry you have no Grub you are on your own. I had to use Supergrub2 and an update grub on all the partitoions but still could not recover the grub so finally I installed I had to use Gparted and resize another Linux Mint 19.2 partition to get 150 Gb and installed another Linux Mint 19.2 ii found all the other operating systems and installed to grub OK.

My advice is you back up all your files on a USB or another external drive before attempting this.

The problem is the installer allows you to partition using Gparted to make space. But you also have to format that space as ext4 other distros allow you to install unallocated. This distro does not. You must memorize the partition position /dev/sda2 in your case perhaps. Then you have to select the third button saying Custom Install on Existing Partitions to choose where you want to put the install however it opts to install on your sda1 if you only have Windows 7 and that is where your Windows 7 is. You need to change this to sda2 or where you have made the partition. When you click NEXT another screen is very confusing it says using vfat I changed this one time do not do it.

Then watch out for another problem when you get to the name and passwords click the button show passwords then you have to enter four this is the only distro I have found that does that. If you do not enter them correctly the next screen will say wrong password and will not allow you to fix then and in my case rotates forever. I do not believe I entered the wrong ones but never did select view as I expect a checker at this point and there must not be one.

I like this distro as the Libreoffice is much improved and It has the latest Gimp2.10 unlike all the other distro still using 2.08/ Then Linux Mint 19.3 have left it out as well as VLC and left a bug so you cannot install it again. Use Linux Mint 19.2 if you want to go this route.

Let me know how you get on.

bscho wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:01 am I have destroyed one SSD drive trying to dual boot with MX.

How did you manage to destroy a drive by installing MX as a dual-boot system? Try as I might I have never managed to destroy my hardware by installing a Linux distro.

Unlike Mint and Peppermint this needs really careful following of the installation I have now put it it on three machines and it has taken me all yesterday though I wrote a very careful procedure for you to follow. See ginamiller.co.uk/MXsuper.php.

I recommend following the pre-installation and installation instructions given in the MX manual. They're very detailed and cover almost every possible installation scenario. Your instructions completely bypass the live persistent USB capabilities of MX and don't even go into installing on systems that use UEFI. I should think people are better off following the official installation instructions from the MX developers rather than those on an unknown person's website. Don't you agree?

I am now using it on a HDD with now 4 operating systems a quadruple boot. I had to add an extra operating system just to fix the install problem as at the end of the install of MX it said Sorry you have no Grub you are on your own. I had to use Supergrub2 and an update grub on all the partitoions but still could not recover the grub so finally I installed I had to use Gparted and resize another Linux Mint 19.2 partition to get 150 Gb and installed another Linux Mint 19.2 ii found all the other operating systems and installed to grub OK.

The MX installer doesn't say anything about grub being missing. It's entirely possible to install MX without installing its grub, and the installation will quite happily complete without it. Then if you already have another distro installed along with its grub just boot into it and run update-grub as su or sudo in a terminal for it to detect and add MX to its boot menu. Bingo, all done.

It sounds like you installed MX's grub to the wrong location so when you rebooted after the installation your system couldn't find the bootloader. Perhaps you also changed the order of bootable devices in your BIOS settings? If you installed MX on sdb, installed its grub to sda, then made sdb's drive the default boot drive there would be no bootloader on that drive and you'd be unable to boot. But as I said, if you already boot using a different distro's grub you can use it to boot MX without installing grub again or changing the boot order in BIOS.

My advice is you back up all your files on a USB or another external drive before attempting this.

I heartily agree! People should be doing regular backups anyway but having everything backed up is especially important when you're going to be repartitioning and installing another OS. In any event it gives you peace of mind.

The problem is the installer allows you to partition using Gparted to make space. But you also have to format that space as ext4 other distros allow you to install unallocated. This distro does not. You must memorize the partition position /dev/sda2 in your case perhaps. Then you have to select the third button saying Custom Install on Existing Partitions to choose where you want to put the install however it opts to install on your sda1 if you only have Windows 7 and that is where your Windows 7 is. You need to change this to sda2 or where you have made the partition. When you click NEXT another screen is very confusing it says using vfat I changed this one time do not do it.

There are only two radio buttons on that screen, auto-install using entire disk and custom install using existing partitions. The second is the default.

Yes, you have to be careful which drive and partitions you select to install MX to, just as you do with all distro and with Windowss, to avoid installing over the top of something else that you wanted to keep. It helps to properly label all of your partitions so it's easier to tell what's what.

Then watch out for another problem when you get to the name and passwords click the button show passwords then you have to enter four this is the only distro I have found that does that. If you do not enter them correctly the next screen will say wrong password and will not allow you to fix then and in my case rotates forever. I do not believe I entered the wrong ones but never did select view as I expect a checker at this point and there must not be one.

I don't know what installer you're using but that's not the way the MX installer works, unless perhaps you're installing a very old version of MX? First, you have to enter two passwords not four, one for the default user account that you create during installation and one for root, and enter each one again to verify that you didn't mistype either of them. Every other distro's installer also requires passwords be typed twice during installation, though some distros don't prompt you to enter a root password as they do everything using sudo. Second, there isn't a "wrong password" message on the next screen. When retyping each password to verify it the password fields turn red until the two match, then they turn green, unless you're somehow using an old version of the installer that does things differently (in which case you should update the minstall package when running a live session after booting from the MX USB stick prior to installing MX.)

By the way, you can click the back button in the installer and double-check all of your choices prior to letting it finalize the installation, although by the time you get to the screen where you set up the user and root accounts it's already erased the selected partitions and is overwriting them. That's why there's a confirmation pop-up after you've selected your installation location that you have to click OK on before you can continue.

Mint and Peppermint are both Ubuntu-based, and it's true that the Ubuntu family of distros only ask for the sudo (user) password for administration, and no root password, during installation. But it's wrong to extrapolate from these 2 and say " this is the only distro I have found that does that".

Debian asks for root and user passwords, and MX, being based on Debian does so. Some other Debian-based distros may chose to only use user password (I believe Bunsenlabs), but that's the devs' choice. I know Kanotix asks for both root and user during installation.

IIRC, distros using the Calamares installer (e.g. Manjaro) have a choice during installation to have separate root and user passwords or just user, but the choice is still there for separate root and user passwords. Sabayon, PCLinuxOS and Void Linux ask for root and user (for these 3, I use root (su) for administrative tasks; sudo is not enabled by default). I think Fedora does ask for root and user during installation as well but I can't recall offhand because sudo can be used for admin tasks and that's what I use.