MX Linux Forum

deliberately chosen community fun!

Monday morning, still sleeping? No!

Microsoft is planning to bring its Defender antivirus to Linux systems next year and will be giving a demo of how security specialists can use Microsoft Defender at the Ignite Conference this week.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft ... x-in-2020/

my respect goes to that company, i'm in no position to judge here,i got into computers via windows, but, it's kinda funny to me considering the security of ms windows today.
since when ms is concerned about linux security while the one who is bombarded with malware and ransomware nowadays is that company's os itself!
it is just my personal opinion.

Subtitle of the article:

Microsoft details its efforts to level the playing field against cyber attackers.

Does this mean Microsoft is planning to weaken the defence against cyberattacks on Linux? Maybe it's a plan to automatically run code and macros in email attachments on Linux. That would go a long way to levelling the playing field.

After all the Halloween documents and the SCO-wars, it is very unlikely I will ever trust Microsoft's intentions regarding Linux.

BitJam wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:01 am it is very unlikely I will ever trust Microsoft's intentions regarding Linux.

well said ,
and i'm wondering why ms is trying so hard to poke into other area's like linux, android, etc...
since im not a security expert to comment on the security aspects of it, it seems to me that ms is getting more greedy everyday.

I consider MS products to be viral. I can't imagine that there will be many Linux old hands that go near this MS product. Probably only those coming from the Windows world of virus/malware that would install & use it, for their security... lol

I was at a conference back in the 1980s and the keynote speaker was from one of the 2 or 3 antivirus companies at the time. i forget which one but seem to recall the speaker had a british accent, but my memory may be faulty.

In his presentation he outright admitted that the only people who had a financial interest in writing viruses was the antivirus industry!

Since that day I have had a very cynical view of viruses and antivirus companies, especially when they went off heuristic detection and went to detecting signatures, thereby making the detection of a virus only as good as they allegedly found one in the wild and updated the database file.

So if MS get involved in Linux antivirus I would expect to suddenly find a proliferation of Linux viruses. LOL

It isn't considered to be really good in Windows, not terrible, but you wouldn't want to pay for it. Can't see it catching on in the Linux world, we generally have higher standards than that.

I'd guess this thread will be full of conspiracy theories... I won't add to them I'll wait to see what happens, assuming anything does actually happen.

No that interested in Defender or Edge, I am looking forward for them to provide a MS Office for Linux...

Yeah, why would I want to use a Microsoft anti-virus program when Linux has its own. One need not even concern themselves with it being a Microsoft product--irrelevant.

lonesomepoint wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:05 am Yeah, why would I want to use a Microsoft anti-virus program when Linux has its own. One need not even concern themselves with it being a Microsoft product--irrelevant.

I see a good point though, some people are forced by corporate policy to run an Antivirus, yes, even on Linux, so if Defender is available for Linux they will be compliant and will be able to run Linux at work.

Adrian wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:36 am No that interested in Defender or Edge, I am looking forward for them to provide a MS Office for Linux...

I use SoftMaker's Office and have been using it for many years. I have had no compatibility issues with ms office files, although my files are fairly basic. There is a basic free version that can be installed with MXPI, and the full paid version is reasonably priced.

I have ZERO faith in anything to do with ms. I left their os and clingon programs because I didn't, and still don't, trust ms.

If the Linux community welcomes ms into the community, then I will be moving to a version of BSD,or something else. ms has nothing of value to offer the Linux community. It was not that many miles back down the road of life that ms was trying to shutdown/kill off Linux, but now they want to help! Ahaha Ya, okay.

I can not wait, but have to, until 'doze and the parent ms are the 'other' os and apps to the world. Maybe by the end of next month. :D

mklym wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:29 am ms has nothing of value to offer the Linux community

The kernel commit list says otherwise :-)

This article is from 2012 so they have been involved for a while now: https://www.zdnet.com/article/who-helps ... microsoft/

I don't think they're in the top 10 list of corporate contributors anymore but they do still help out.

EDIT: corrected link.

EDIT2: I don't trust them either.

mklym wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:29 am If the Linux community welcomes ms into the community, then I will be moving to a version of BSD,or something else.

I agree, if ms apps or security software spreads over linux os and users ,IMO, we can't consider linux a "safe os which respects user policy" anymore in long-term.
that was my main reason(and likely anybody else) to switch from windows to linux at the first place.

i hope that doesn't happen

Lupin wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:18 am

mklym wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:29 am If the Linux community welcomes ms into the community, then I will be moving to a version of BSD,or something else.

I agree, if ms apps or security software spreads over linux os and users ,IMO, we can't consider linux a "safe os which respects user policy" anymore in long-term.
that was my main reason(and likely anybody else) to switch from windows to linux at the first place.

i hope that doesn't happen

It won't. This is just like the rise of stainless steel appliances. A stainless steel oven doesn't cook the food any better than an enamel one, but the market place has been conditioned to believe that stainless steel is superior. Similarly ClamAv and other similar linux packages will do the job quite well but they lack the name recognition of a Microsoft product. Microsoft knows this and they likely see it as a marketing advantage for their Defender range of products and licences. The existing linux user base most likely will not buy in, but there are a lot of Microsoft only enterprises out there that might as part of a migration to linux.

Microsoft taking care of Linux security is ridiculous

Head_on_a_Stick wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:10 am

mklym wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:29 am ms has nothing of value to offer the Linux community

The kernel commit list says otherwise :-)

This article is from 2012 so they have been involved for a while now: https://www.zdnet.com/article/who-helps ... microsoft/

I don't think they're in the top 10 list of corporate contributors anymore but they do still help out.

EDIT: corrected link.

EDIT2: I don't trust them either.

Everyone has different definitions of value. Code to enable their software to engage with the Linux OS is not my idea of value, especially when the Linux kernel already had its own KVM. As for monetary contributions ( I just skimmed the article in the link, but I think they talked about that as well), take their money, as long as it is 'no strings attached'.

ms has been a malicious, devious company since the beginning. Anyone remember the BS when the first ms windoze come out? At the time msdos was #2 behind PCDOS. If you had PCDOS installed and wanted to install windoze on top, when you ran the installer you were greeted with error massages saying that if you did not remove pcdos and install msdos before installing windows your machine would suffer major damage. PCDOS died very quickly, even though you could ignore the error messages and install the 'doze os without any damage. Some people call that good business sense, I call it fear mongering.

As I said before, I don't trust ms, never have, never will period.

They have no place in the Linux community, let alone the Linux OS. My opinion.

Not trying to start a war, or anything like that, expressing my personal opinion is all.

OK, just for a bit of perspective...

How does this fit in with all the anti-MS talk?

The whole anti-Microsoft thing was sometimes funny as a joke, but not really. Today, they’re actually much friendlier. I talk to Microsoft engineers at various conferences, and I feel like, yes, they have changed, and the engineers are happy.

And they’re like really happy working on Linux. So I completely dismissed all the anti-Microsoft stuff

Linus Torvalds October 7th 2019

mklym wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:14 pm ms has been a malicious, devious company since the beginning.

Microsoft make most of their money from cloud services these days and the cloud is dominated by Linux so they have to play the game.

The kernel is protected by the copyleft licence which forces companies to share their improvements with everybody, the companies are willing to accept this because it means they also get to see their competitors' contributions. So everybody benefits, including us.

ChrisUK wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:23 pm OK, just for a bit of perspective...

How does this fit in with all the anti-MS talk?

The whole anti-Microsoft thing was sometimes funny as a joke, but not really. Today, they’re actually much friendlier. I talk to Microsoft engineers at various conferences, and I feel like, yes, they have changed, and the engineers are happy.

And they’re like really happy working on Linux. So I completely dismissed all the anti-Microsoft stuff

Linus Torvalds October 7th 2019

Same as what I wrote above, opinion. He can feel anyway he wants about ms. Makes no difference to me and my opinion.
It is funny what fame and fortune does to a persons perspective. Some are effected more than others, some less, but they are all effected by it.

I know my opinion holds no weight in Mr. Torvalds world, but on the other hand, his opinion holds no weight in my world.

If the Linux community and/or OS ends up getting cross-threaded (pipefitters term) by/with ms involement, I can compile my own OS. It takes some work, but do-able.

Just like being forced into quitting smoking cold-turkey after ~45yrs, takes some work, but do-able. Day 4 and I have not killed anyone, yet.

mklym wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:14 pmIf you had PCDOS installed and wanted to install windoze on top, when you ran the installer you were greeted with error massages saying that if you did not remove pcdos and install msdos before installing windows your machine would suffer major damage. PCDOS died very quickly, even though you could ignore the error messages and install the 'doze os without any damage. Some people call that good business sense, I call it fear mongering.

That's pretty low-level FUD compared to other stuff from that day and age. For years there was FUD going around that different systems or software would cause your monitor to blow up in your face and kill you, or spin a CD so fast that it would break into shrapnel which would fly out of the computer and injure you. MS was just running a typical troll operation for their time, looking to get a leg up on the competition.

mklym wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:43 pm [...]
Just like being forced into quitting smoking cold-turkey after ~45yrs, takes some work, but do-able. Day 4 and I have not killed anyone, yet.

I quit after 44 years (no choice COPD) - I just stopped May 2012, not even thought about smoking again since.

This doesn't work for everyone, but I read this book twice before deciding to stop... it changed the way that I thought about many things, not just smoking.

Incidentally, the writer of the book, Allen Carr, died of Lung Cancer after quitting (and helping others to quit) for years. He had to spend time amongst heavy smokers to talk and help them to stop - the passive smoking he endured probably played a part in his death. If there's a God he certainly has a sense of irony.

Thanks ChrisUK. I will check out the book you linked to.

If it was a medical issue then I would have no problem quitting. After smoking for over 45 years, I have no problems breathing. I was working as a 60yr old laborer on a torch-on roofing crew and in a year and a half I watched close to 20 young guys come and go as they couldn't handle the work. I still work like a 30-35 yr old. Not bragging.

I do appreciate the info and link Chris. Congrats on quitting smoking. I am going to kill.........another cup of coffee. :D

I think it's great that linux is starting to have a variety of anti virus software. I hope there will be many more to choose from in the future.

I hope Windows Defender will be good. I'd be happy to test it when it comes out

:)

Ya'll have a great day.

On my Win7 gaming installs I have no anti-virus software installed (the free one's are self confessed trackers! - I don't know how "clean" Clam Windows is?) & Defender is not run (nor are any of the MS updates).

gimbleguy wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:07 pm I think it's great that linux is starting to have a variety of anti virus software. I hope there will be many more to choose from in the future.

I hope Windows Defender will be good. I'd be happy to test it when it comes out

Sure, we need more--just look at all the posts on this forum from users that have been infected!

Not that I care much. But if I was curious. I have enough hardware for a fresh install and a run at it.

I suggest other users can do the same. I cannot comment on anything else about it. Any files,pics,images I give the wife in the mail. I tell her to run it through her anti-virus 1st.

Stevo wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:30 pm

gimbleguy wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:07 pm I think it's great that linux is starting to have a variety of anti virus software. I hope there will be many more to choose from in the future.

I hope Windows Defender will be good. I'd be happy to test it when it comes out

Sure, we need more--just look at all the posts on this forum from users that have been infected!

The more apps we get on linux the better it is for the community. Hopefully it will attract more people to use linux. Apps like MSI afterburner on linux would be good to have.

This is the main reason I joined MXlinux, for the amount of software it has on it's support. Especially Virtualbox on the default install option.

Stevo wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:30 pm

gimbleguy wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:07 pm I think it's great that linux is starting to have a variety of anti virus software. I hope there will be many more to choose from in the future.

I hope Windows Defender will be good. I'd be happy to test it when it comes out

Sure, we need more--just look at all the posts on this forum from users that have been infected!

Microsoft intends to introduce the ATP variant rather than the antivirus tool: https://www.concurrency.com/blog/novemb ... fender-atp

It seems to act in a similar way to apparmor (AFAICT).

Microsoft wants to use our computers to help their beloved Windows from getting infected, and also there's their feared embrace, extend & extinguish thingy Micro$oft likes to do!

*giggle* Every time I read about the fear mongering they are wanting to annihilate us texts going around I have to laugh.

If they really wanted to do that they would have done so a LOOOONG time ago

Eadwine Rose wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:36 pm *giggle* Every time I read about the fear mongering they are wanting to annihilate us texts going around I have to laugh.

If they really wanted to do that they would have done so a LOOOONG time ago

Well, they did finance the SCO lawsuit if I recall correctly. So, they tried and failed I guess you could say.

Eadwine Rose wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:36 pm *giggle* Every time I read about the fear mongering they are wanting to annihilate us texts going around I have to laugh.

If they really wanted to do that they would have done so a LOOOONG time ago

People also laughed saying the Titanic wouldn't sink, look what happened to it! All this sudden love Microsoft professes for linux makes me feel uneasy!

I still call "tin foil hat".


I use both happily next to each other. There is a big deal being made where there is none. But sure, we'll agree to disagree. I prefer to spend my worry energy on more important things than an OS.

I can't see MS Defender being forced on Linux, as if it's going to be included in every distro and can't be removed without breaking the system, or something.

Every since I started looking at Linux I've seen predictions of its looming death for various reasons. I predict that if I'm still around 20 years from now I'll still be reading predictions of its impending doom.

It's not my biggest worry.