[solved] @#$%^*&! SystemD .. the snake strikes again

[zimbodel]

Hi jeffrey, exactly, but I think you missed the CRON part of my posts which addresses this if systemD is accidentally installed again.
I found that the list of packages "going to be installed in apt" and specifically MXInstaller, is not perfect .
Surely you dont profess that the listed packages to be installed is perfect and the gospell?
I had it often that it lists no systemD to be installed, but then it is installed regardless and my cron script allerts me right after installation.
It is annoying.

To some of the other comments.
I think we get a bit off track.
Of course I dont boot with the systemD kernel.
I am talking about systemD creeping back in as a dependency and totally mucking up everything including CRON which it usurps and make into something else which doesnt execute my cronjobs anymore, several sound issues with JACK pops up, alsa stops recognizing particular devices, rc.local doesnt execute anymore neither does @reboot and the list of annoyance just goes on.

As I ran MX for the last couple of months it was stellar with no SystemD installed. Everytime I picked up trouble out of the blue, lo and behold SystemD slithered onto the drives again. That is why I let Cron warn me on a per minute basis.

The problem you have starts with blindly accepting updates without looking at what new dependencies they drag in.
If there is something you want to keep off your computer you must watch what is installed every time.

[anticapitalista]

cat /var/log/apt/history.log may show us what part of systemd got installed and why.

Also inxi -r (it shows the repos you use)

[Head_on_a_Stick]

I had it often that it lists no systemD to be installed, but then it is installed regardless and my cron script allerts me right after installation.

I'm pretty sure you are mistaken about this, please post a relevant except from the APT package log to verify your claim. Full command output would be better if you can reproduce this.

Of course I dont boot with the systemD kernel.

Not according to your OP:

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systemd is the active init system, please switch to another before removing systemd.

You were booted with systemd (not "SystemD") running as PID1 when this message appeared.

Is systemd specified on the kernel command line?

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cat /proc/cmdline

Or is it symlinked to init?

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ls -l /sbin/init

I am talking about systemD creeping back in as a dependency and totally mucking up everything including CRON which it usurps and make into something else which doesnt execute my cronjobs anymore, several sound issues with JACK pops up, alsa stops recognizing particular devices, rc.local doesnt execute anymore neither does @reboot and the list of annoyance just goes on.

As I ran MX for the last couple of months it was stellar with no SystemD installed. Everytime I picked up trouble out of the blue, lo and behold SystemD slithered onto the drives again. That is why I let Cron warn me on a per minute basis.

I think you are getting confused here, if you don't even know that you're using systemd as init then I doubt that you have a firm grasp on the situation.

For the record if systemd is installed but not running as PID1 (init) then it cannot influence the workings of your system at all. And to enable rc.local under systemd simply make the file executable.

[zimbodel]

To Head_on_a_Stick:
Nope I dont think I am the one who is confused here:

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$ cat /proc/cmdline
BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-5-amd64 root=UUID=c7eca528-9d40-4071-ab79-c273b78e0185 ro quiet
$ ls -l /sbin/init
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 44856 Apr 23 16:21 /sbin/init

[zimbodel]

For the record if systemd is installed but not running as PID1 (init) then it cannot influence the workings of your system at all. And to enable rc.local under systemd simply make the file executable.

So what ?
It mucks up rc.local execution out of the box, and on all my servers which has systemDuh rc.local NEVER executes after I chmod
+x it as what ashouold make it execute. Furthermore SystemDuha bsolutely REFUSES to execute @reboot in crontabs.

This is a different issue, which is well documented as systemD issues, so lets stick to my original questions please.

[zimbodel]

cat /var/log/apt/history.log may show us what part of systemd got installed and why.

Also inxi -r (it shows the repos you use)

Here you go,

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$ cat /var/log/apt/history.log |grep -i systemd 
Install: gir1.2-soup-2.4:amd64 (2.56.0-2+deb9u2, automatic), libpam-systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u11, automatic), gufw:amd64 (17.04.1-1.1), policykit-1:amd64 (0.105-18+deb9u1, automatic), gir1.2-webkit2-4.0:amd64 (2.24.3-1~mx17+1, automatic), gir1.2-javascriptcoregtk-4.0:amd64 (2.24.3-1~mx17+1, automatic)
Upgrade: kicad-footprints:amd64 (5.1.2-1~mx17+1, 5.1.3-1~mx17+1), libopencv-core-dev:amd64 (2.4.9.1+dfsg1-2, 3.2.0+dfsg-3mx17+1), mx-packageinstaller-pkglist:amd64 (19.05.07, 19.05.08), grub-themes-mx:amd64 (18.12.02, 19.08.03), librecad-data:amd64 (2.1.2-1, 2.1.2-1+deb9u1), musescore-common:amd64 (2.3.2+dfsg1-1~mx17+1, 2.3.2+dfsg2-6~bpo9+1), libkf5config-data:amd64 (5.28.0-2, 5.28.0-2+deb9u1), linux-headers-4.9.0-9-common:amd64 (4.9.168-1+deb9u4, 4.9.168-1+deb9u5), firmware-iwlwifi:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libnghttp2-14:amd64 (1.18.1-1, 1.18.1-1+deb9u1), libgles2-mesa:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), vlc-plugin-svg:amd64 (3.0.7.1-1mx17+2, 3.0.8-2mx17+2), grub-efi:amd64 (2.02~beta3-5+deb9u1, 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u2), firmware-realtek:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), mx-usb-unmounter:amd64 (19.04, 19.08.01), libcups2:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), libcups2:i386 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), libdrm-nouveau2:amd64 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 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(4.9.168-1+deb9u4, 4.9.168-1+deb9u5), firmware-misc-nonfree:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libosmesa6:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libgs9-common:amd64 (9.26a~dfsg-0+deb9u3, 9.26a~dfsg-0+deb9u5), thunderbird:amd64 (2:60.8.0-1~mx17+1, 2:60.8.0-2~mx17+1), usbutils:amd64 (1:007-4+b1, 1:007-4+deb9u1), mx-packageinstaller:amd64 (19.7.3, 19.9), palemoon:amd64 (28.6.1+repack-1~mx17+1, 28.7.1+repack-1~mx17+1), catfish:amd64 (1.4.7-0.1~mx17+1, 1.4.10-0.1~mx17+1), vlc-plugin-video-splitter:amd64 (3.0.7.1-1mx17+2, 3.0.8-2mx17+2), liquidsoap-plugin-alsa:amd64 (1.1.1-7.2, 1.1.1-7.2+deb9u1), libgl1-mesa-glx:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libgl1-mesa-glx:i386 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libcupsppdc1:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), libdrm-intel1:amd64 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), libdrm-intel1:i386 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), xfce4-weather-plugin:amd64 (0.9.0really0.8.11-0.1~mx17+1, 0.10.0-0.1~mx17+1), apache2-bin:amd64 (2.4.25-3+deb9u7, 2.4.25-3+deb9u8), libva-x11-2:amd64 (2.3.0-2~mx17+1, 2.4.0-1~mx17+1), firefox:amd64 (68.0.1~mozillabinaries-1mx17+1, 69.0~mozillabinaries-1mx17+1), libva-wayland2:amd64 (2.3.0-2~mx17+1, 2.4.0-1~mx17+1), firmware-bnx2x:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), mx-tweak:amd64 (19.05.01, 19.05.04), libopencv-photo-dev:amd64 (2.4.9.1+dfsg1-2, 3.2.0+dfsg-3mx17+1), clamav-base:amd64 (0.100.3+dfsg-0+deb9u1, 0.101.4+dfsg-0+deb9u1), kicad:amd64 (5.1.2+dfsg1-1~mx17+1, 5.1.4+dfsg1-1~mx17+1), libdrm-radeon1:amd64 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), libdrm-radeon1:i386 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), libva-drm2:amd64 (2.3.0-2~mx17+1, 2.4.0-1~mx17+1), qemu-system-arm:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), mesa-vdpau-drivers:i386 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), cups-core-drivers:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), autopoint:amd64 (0.19.8.1-2, 0.19.8.1-2+deb9u1), cups-daemon:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), libsdl-image1.2:amd64 (1.2.12-5+deb9u1, 1.2.12-5+deb9u2), libsox-fmt-base:amd64 (14.4.1-5+deb9u1, 14.4.1-5+deb9u2), xsltproc:amd64 (1.1.29-2.1, 1.1.29-2.1+deb9u1), gettext-base:amd64 (0.19.8.1-2, 0.19.8.1-2+deb9u1), gettext:amd64 (0.19.8.1-2, 0.19.8.1-2+deb9u1), libcupsimage2:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), opera-stable:amd64 (62.0.3331.99, 63.0.3368.91), cups:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), musescore-general-soundfont:amd64 (0.1.1-2~mx17+1, 0.1.7-2~mx17+1), firmware-linux:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libcupscgi1:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), cups-client:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), libdrm-dev:amd64 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), virtualbox-6.0:amd64 (6.0.10-132072~Debian~stretch, 6.0.12-133076~Debian~stretch), kicad-templates:amd64 (5.1.0-1~mx17+1, 5.1.3-1~mx17+1), libopencv-video-dev:amd64 (2.4.9.1+dfsg1-2, 3.2.0+dfsg-3mx17+1), linux-source-4.19:amd64 (4.19.37-2~mx17+1, 4.19.67-2~mx17+1), firmware-bnx2:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), qemu-system-common:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), libfaad2:amd64 (2.8.0~cvs20161113-1+deb9u1, 2.8.0~cvs20161113-1+deb9u2), liquidsoap-plugin-gstreamer:amd64 (1.1.1-7.2, 1.1.1-7.2+deb9u1), firmware-ipw2x00:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libfribidi0:amd64 (0.19.7-1+b1, 0.19.7-1+deb9u1), qemu-system:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), mesa-va-drivers:i386 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libxslt1.1:amd64 (1.1.29-2.1, 1.1.29-2.1+deb9u1), libxslt1.1:i386 (1.1.29-2.1, 1.1.29-2.1+deb9u1), base-files:amd64 (9.9+deb9u9, 9.9+deb9u11), tzdata:amd64 (2019a-0+deb9u1, 2019b-0+deb9u1), libglx-mesa0:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libglx-mesa0:i386 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libdrm-common:amd64 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: libpam-systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12), systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12), gufw:amd64 (17.04.1-1.1), policykit-1:amd64 (0.105-18+deb9u1)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Install: rtkit:amd64 (0.11-4+deb9u1), paprefs:amd64 (0.9.10-2+b1), pulseaudio-module-zeroconf:amd64 (10.0-1+deb9u1, automatic), libpam-systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12, automatic), policykit-1:amd64 (0.105-18+deb9u1, automatic), pulseaudio-module-gconf:amd64 (10.0-1+deb9u1, automatic), libgconfmm-2.6-1v5:amd64 (2.28.3-1, automatic)
Commandline: apt remove libpam-systemd
Remove: libpam-systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove --purge --auto-remove systemd
Purge: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Install: systemd-sysv:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12, automatic)
Remove: systemd-sysv:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove --purge --auto-remove systemd
Purge: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)

[zimbodel]

Hey if Z wants to run systemd-free on the since of it not even installed that ok with me. But MX's repos (and debian's) are not set up for it. At least not without a lot of work. libpam-systemd dpeendecies are usually the culprit.

for those that want to run as systemd-free as possible, they should start with antix (or Devuan but I'm partial to antix)

You are right about libpam dependancies but I worked around it.
MX runs absolutely fantastic without SystemD and as soon as it creeps back then everything literally goes to hell.
Looks like systemD was written/sponsored maybe by the same people as SELinux which caused me so much trouble 10 years ago, breaking so many processes for no reason.

Also regarding your other statements: I am running Devuan on several of my rackservers and it is fantastic, without this creepy systemD problem I have with MX18. I ran into systemD problems as a debian user and that is why I came to MX. If you read the thread you will see that I already addressed it. I was supposed to use Antix not MX to get rid of the horrid systemduh, and that was my oversight initially. I was invited by an MX developer who saw my systemD trouble at Debian posted. Since he was from MX I asumed I must use MX, but I guess I misunderstood as MX/Antix is almost indistinguishable to someone new to Antix/Mx.reading online they sort of share the same usergroup which really confused me.
This is the last MX server I have to migrate to Devuan, but I need to get it back working first completely as before the systemD infection in order to tend to the migration.

cat /var/log/apt/history.log may show us what part of systemd got installed and why.

Also inxi -r (it shows the repos you use)

Here you go,

Code: Select all

$ cat /var/log/apt/history.log |grep -i systemd 
Install: gir1.2-soup-2.4:amd64 (2.56.0-2+deb9u2, automatic), libpam-systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u11, automatic), gufw:amd64 (17.04.1-1.1), policykit-1:amd64 (0.105-18+deb9u1, automatic), gir1.2-webkit2-4.0:amd64 (2.24.3-1~mx17+1, automatic), gir1.2-javascriptcoregtk-4.0:amd64 (2.24.3-1~mx17+1, automatic)
Upgrade: kicad-footprints:amd64 (5.1.2-1~mx17+1, 5.1.3-1~mx17+1), libopencv-core-dev:amd64 (2.4.9.1+dfsg1-2, 3.2.0+dfsg-3mx17+1), mx-packageinstaller-pkglist:amd64 (19.05.07, 19.05.08), grub-themes-mx:amd64 (18.12.02, 19.08.03), librecad-data:amd64 (2.1.2-1, 2.1.2-1+deb9u1), musescore-common:amd64 (2.3.2+dfsg1-1~mx17+1, 2.3.2+dfsg2-6~bpo9+1), libkf5config-data:amd64 (5.28.0-2, 5.28.0-2+deb9u1), linux-headers-4.9.0-9-common:amd64 (4.9.168-1+deb9u4, 4.9.168-1+deb9u5), firmware-iwlwifi:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libnghttp2-14:amd64 (1.18.1-1, 1.18.1-1+deb9u1), libgles2-mesa:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), vlc-plugin-svg:amd64 (3.0.7.1-1mx17+2, 3.0.8-2mx17+2), grub-efi:amd64 (2.02~beta3-5+deb9u1, 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u2), firmware-realtek:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), mx-usb-unmounter:amd64 (19.04, 19.08.01), libcups2:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), libcups2:i386 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), libdrm-nouveau2:amd64 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), libdrm-nouveau2:i386 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), libsox-fmt-all:amd64 (14.4.1-5+deb9u1, 14.4.1-5+deb9u2), firmware-ivtv:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libsox-fmt-ao:amd64 (14.4.1-5+deb9u1, 14.4.1-5+deb9u2), linux-libc-dev:amd64 (4.20-2~mx17+1, 5.2.9-1~mx17+1), linux-libc-dev:i386 (4.20-2~mx17+1, 5.2.9-1~mx17+1), libldap-2.4-2:amd64 (2.4.44+dfsg-5+deb9u2, 2.4.44+dfsg-5+deb9u3), libldap-2.4-2:i386 (2.4.44+dfsg-5+deb9u2, 2.4.44+dfsg-5+deb9u3), vlc-plugin-samba:amd64 (3.0.7.1-1mx17+2, 3.0.8-2mx17+2), libxslt1-dev:amd64 (1.1.29-2.1, 1.1.29-2.1+deb9u1), libllvm7:amd64 (1:7-6~mx17+1, 1:7.0.1-8~deb9u2), libllvm7:i386 (1:7-6~mx17+1, 1:7.0.1-8~deb9u2), libsox-fmt-pulse:amd64 (14.4.1-5+deb9u1, 14.4.1-5+deb9u2), libopencv-ml-dev:amd64 (2.4.9.1+dfsg1-2, 3.2.0+dfsg-3mx17+1), libegl1-mesa-dev:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), qemu-system-mips:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), qemu-system-misc:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), libegl-mesa0:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), kicad-demos:amd64 (5.1.2+dfsg1-1~mx17+1, 5.1.4+dfsg1-1~mx17+1), qemu-system-ppc:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), vlc-plugin-qt:amd64 (3.0.7.1-1mx17+2, 3.0.8-2mx17+2), linux-image-4.9.0-9-amd64:amd64 (4.9.168-1+deb9u4, 4.9.168-1+deb9u5), libsystemd0:amd64 (232-25+deb9u11, 232-25+deb9u12), libsystemd0:i386 (232-25+deb9u11, 232-25+deb9u12), shotwell-common:amd64 (0.30.2-0.1~mx17+1, 0.30.7-0.1~mx17+1), adobe-flash-properties-gtk:amd64 (1:20190709.1-1mx17+1, 1:20190910.1-1mx17+1), grub-common:amd64 (2.02~beta3-5+deb9u1, 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u2), libgd3:amd64 (2.2.4-2+deb9u4, 2.2.4-2+deb9u5), libgd3:i386 (2.2.4-2+deb9u4, 2.2.4-2+deb9u5), libasprintf-dev:amd64 (0.19.8.1-2, 0.19.8.1-2+deb9u1), libfaad-dev:amd64 (2.8.0~cvs20161113-1+deb9u1, 2.8.0~cvs20161113-1+deb9u2), featherpad:amd64 (1:0.10.0-1~mx17+1, 1:0.11.1-1~mx17+1), libgs9:amd64 (9.26a~dfsg-0+deb9u3, 9.26a~dfsg-0+deb9u5), libglapi-mesa:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libglapi-mesa:i386 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), mesa-common-dev:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), neofetch:amd64 (6.0.0-1~mx17+1, 6.1.0-1~mx17+1), libicu57:amd64 (57.1-6+deb9u2, 57.1-6+deb9u3), libicu57:i386 (57.1-6+deb9u2, 57.1-6+deb9u3), libasprintf0v5:amd64 (0.19.8.1-2, 0.19.8.1-2+deb9u1), vlc-plugin-skins2:amd64 (3.0.7.1-1mx17+2, 3.0.8-2mx17+2), firmware-amd-graphics:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), vlc-plugin-visualization:amd64 (3.0.7.1-1mx17+2, 3.0.8-2mx17+2), libkf5configcore5:amd64 (5.28.0-2, 5.28.0-2+deb9u1), libsox2:amd64 (14.4.1-5+deb9u1, 14.4.1-5+deb9u2), libgettextpo0:amd64 (0.19.8.1-2, 0.19.8.1-2+deb9u1), qemu-system-x86:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), firmware-myricom:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), insserv:amd64 (1.14.0-5.4+b1, 1.18.0-2mx17+1), libxatracker2:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), openssh-sftp-server:amd64 (1:7.4p1-10+deb9u6, 1:7.4p1-10+deb9u7), firmware-samsung:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), vlc-plugin-notify:amd64 (3.0.7.1-1mx17+2, 3.0.8-2mx17+2), libtk-img:amd64 (1:1.4.6+dfsg-1, 1:1.4.6+dfsg-1+deb9u1), grub2-common:amd64 (2.02~beta3-5+deb9u1, 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u2), skypeforlinux:amd64 (8.50.0.38, 8.52.0.138), udev:amd64 (232-25+deb9u11, 232-25+deb9u12), libfribidi-dev:amd64 (0.19.7-1+b1, 0.19.7-1+deb9u1), libegl1-mesa:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), cups-server-common:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), mx-tools:amd64 (19.4, 19.9.01), x42-plugins:amd64 (2:20190206-1kxstudio1, 2:20190820-1kxstudio1), libsox-fmt-mp3:amd64 (14.4.1-5+deb9u1, 14.4.1-5+deb9u2), firmware-atheros:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), qemu-user:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), linux-compiler-gcc-6-x86:amd64 (4.20-2~mx17+1, 5.2.9-1~mx17+1), cups-common:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), libsox-fmt-alsa:amd64 (14.4.1-5+deb9u1, 14.4.1-5+deb9u2), brave-browser-beta:amd64 (0.69.119, 0.70.97), libsox-fmt-oss:amd64 (14.4.1-5+deb9u1, 14.4.1-5+deb9u2), firmware-libertas:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libudev1:amd64 (232-25+deb9u11, 232-25+deb9u12), libudev1:i386 (232-25+deb9u11, 232-25+deb9u12), firmware-netxen:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libcaca-dev:amd64 (0.99.beta19-2+b2, 0.99.beta19-2.1~deb9u1), libgettextpo-dev:amd64 (0.19.8.1-2, 0.19.8.1-2+deb9u1), libgbm1:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), adobe-flashplugin:amd64 (1:20190709.1-1mx17+1, 1:20190910.1-1mx17+1), libkf5configgui5:amd64 (5.28.0-2, 5.28.0-2+deb9u1), kicad-libraries:amd64 (5.1.2+dfsg1-1~mx17+1, 5.1.4+dfsg1-1~mx17+1), grub-pc-bin:amd64 (2.02~beta3-5+deb9u1, 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u2), smxi-inxi-antix:amd64 (0.4.16, 0.4.17), libmlt-data:amd64 (6.12.0-1~mx17+1, 6.16.0-3~mx17+1), libdrm-amdgpu1:amd64 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), libdrm-amdgpu1:i386 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), firmware-intelwimax:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libmbedtls-dev:amd64 (2.4.2-1+deb9u3, 2.16.0-1~mx17+1), gthumb:amd64 (3:3.4.4.1-5, 3:3.4.4.1-5+deb9u1), libva2:amd64 (2.3.0-2~mx17+1, 2.4.0-1~mx17+1), libva2:i386 (2.3.0-2~mx17+1, 2.4.0-1~mx17+1), qemu:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), grub-efi-amd64-bin:amd64 (2.02~beta3-5+deb9u1, 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u2), libudev-dev:amd64 (232-25+deb9u11, 232-25+deb9u12), cups-ppdc:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), firmware-linux-nonfree:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libcupsmime1:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), libcaca0:amd64 (0.99.beta19-2+b2, 0.99.beta19-2.1~deb9u1), firmware-brcm80211:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), firmware-intel-sound:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), reportbug:amd64 (7.1.7+deb9u2, 7.1.7+deb9u3), libnss-myhostname:amd64 (232-25+deb9u11, 232-25+deb9u12), sox:amd64 (14.4.1-5+deb9u1, 14.4.1-5+deb9u2), ssh:amd64 (1:7.4p1-10+deb9u6, 1:7.4p1-10+deb9u7), mx-snapshot:amd64 (19.7.3, 19.9), qemu-utils:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), faad:amd64 (2.8.0~cvs20161113-1+deb9u1, 2.8.0~cvs20161113-1+deb9u2), libldap-common:amd64 (2.4.44+dfsg-5+deb9u2, 2.4.44+dfsg-5+deb9u3), libwayland-egl1-mesa:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), gthumb-data:amd64 (3:3.4.4.1-5, 3:3.4.4.1-5+deb9u1), libopencv-flann-dev:amd64 (2.4.9.1+dfsg1-2, 3.2.0+dfsg-3mx17+1), firmware-qlogic:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libmbedx509-0:amd64 (2.4.2-1+deb9u3, 2.16.0-1~mx17+1), mx-codecs:amd64 (19.4.3, 19.9), vlc-plugin-access-extra:amd64 (3.0.7.1-1mx17+2, 3.0.8-2mx17+2), librecad:amd64 (2.1.2-1+b1, 2.1.2-1+deb9u1), libpam-systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u11, 232-25+deb9u12), qemu-system-sparc:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), clamav:amd64 (0.100.3+dfsg-0+deb9u1, 0.101.4+dfsg-0+deb9u1), libdrm2:amd64 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), libdrm2:i386 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), linux-kbuild-4.9:amd64 (4.9.168-1+deb9u4, 4.9.189-3), liquidsoap:amd64 (1.1.1-7.2, 1.1.1-7.2+deb9u1), ghostscript:amd64 (9.26a~dfsg-0+deb9u3, 9.26a~dfsg-0+deb9u5), libopencv-imgproc-dev:amd64 (2.4.9.1+dfsg1-2, 3.2.0+dfsg-3mx17+1), systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u11, 232-25+deb9u12), shotwell:amd64 (0.30.2-0.1~mx17+1, 0.30.7-0.1~mx17+1), linux-image-4.19.0-5-amd64-unsigned:amd64 (4.19.37-2~mx17+2, 4.19.37-5+deb10u2~mx17+1), python3-reportbug:amd64 (7.1.7+deb9u2, 7.1.7+deb9u3), clamav-freshclam:amd64 (0.100.3+dfsg-0+deb9u1, 0.101.4+dfsg-0+deb9u1), lightning:amd64 (2:60.8.0-1~mx17+1, 2:60.8.0-2~mx17+1), libgl1-mesa-dev:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), openssh-server:amd64 (1:7.4p1-10+deb9u6, 1:7.4p1-10+deb9u7), ghostscript-x:amd64 (9.26a~dfsg-0+deb9u3, 9.26a~dfsg-0+deb9u5), libgl1-mesa-dri:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), unzip:amd64 (6.0-21+deb9u1, 6.0-21+deb9u2), openssh-client:amd64 (1:7.4p1-10+deb9u6, 1:7.4p1-10+deb9u7), grub-efi-amd64:amd64 (2.02~beta3-5+deb9u1, 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u2), linux-headers-4.9.0-9-amd64:amd64 (4.9.168-1+deb9u4, 4.9.168-1+deb9u5), firmware-misc-nonfree:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libosmesa6:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libgs9-common:amd64 (9.26a~dfsg-0+deb9u3, 9.26a~dfsg-0+deb9u5), thunderbird:amd64 (2:60.8.0-1~mx17+1, 2:60.8.0-2~mx17+1), usbutils:amd64 (1:007-4+b1, 1:007-4+deb9u1), mx-packageinstaller:amd64 (19.7.3, 19.9), palemoon:amd64 (28.6.1+repack-1~mx17+1, 28.7.1+repack-1~mx17+1), catfish:amd64 (1.4.7-0.1~mx17+1, 1.4.10-0.1~mx17+1), vlc-plugin-video-splitter:amd64 (3.0.7.1-1mx17+2, 3.0.8-2mx17+2), liquidsoap-plugin-alsa:amd64 (1.1.1-7.2, 1.1.1-7.2+deb9u1), libgl1-mesa-glx:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libgl1-mesa-glx:i386 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libcupsppdc1:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), libdrm-intel1:amd64 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), libdrm-intel1:i386 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), xfce4-weather-plugin:amd64 (0.9.0really0.8.11-0.1~mx17+1, 0.10.0-0.1~mx17+1), apache2-bin:amd64 (2.4.25-3+deb9u7, 2.4.25-3+deb9u8), libva-x11-2:amd64 (2.3.0-2~mx17+1, 2.4.0-1~mx17+1), firefox:amd64 (68.0.1~mozillabinaries-1mx17+1, 69.0~mozillabinaries-1mx17+1), libva-wayland2:amd64 (2.3.0-2~mx17+1, 2.4.0-1~mx17+1), firmware-bnx2x:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), mx-tweak:amd64 (19.05.01, 19.05.04), libopencv-photo-dev:amd64 (2.4.9.1+dfsg1-2, 3.2.0+dfsg-3mx17+1), clamav-base:amd64 (0.100.3+dfsg-0+deb9u1, 0.101.4+dfsg-0+deb9u1), kicad:amd64 (5.1.2+dfsg1-1~mx17+1, 5.1.4+dfsg1-1~mx17+1), libdrm-radeon1:amd64 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), libdrm-radeon1:i386 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), libva-drm2:amd64 (2.3.0-2~mx17+1, 2.4.0-1~mx17+1), qemu-system-arm:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), mesa-vdpau-drivers:i386 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), cups-core-drivers:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), autopoint:amd64 (0.19.8.1-2, 0.19.8.1-2+deb9u1), cups-daemon:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), libsdl-image1.2:amd64 (1.2.12-5+deb9u1, 1.2.12-5+deb9u2), libsox-fmt-base:amd64 (14.4.1-5+deb9u1, 14.4.1-5+deb9u2), xsltproc:amd64 (1.1.29-2.1, 1.1.29-2.1+deb9u1), gettext-base:amd64 (0.19.8.1-2, 0.19.8.1-2+deb9u1), gettext:amd64 (0.19.8.1-2, 0.19.8.1-2+deb9u1), libcupsimage2:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), opera-stable:amd64 (62.0.3331.99, 63.0.3368.91), cups:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), musescore-general-soundfont:amd64 (0.1.1-2~mx17+1, 0.1.7-2~mx17+1), firmware-linux:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libcupscgi1:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), cups-client:amd64 (2.2.1-8+deb9u3, 2.2.1-8+deb9u4), libdrm-dev:amd64 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1), virtualbox-6.0:amd64 (6.0.10-132072~Debian~stretch, 6.0.12-133076~Debian~stretch), kicad-templates:amd64 (5.1.0-1~mx17+1, 5.1.3-1~mx17+1), libopencv-video-dev:amd64 (2.4.9.1+dfsg1-2, 3.2.0+dfsg-3mx17+1), linux-source-4.19:amd64 (4.19.37-2~mx17+1, 4.19.67-2~mx17+1), firmware-bnx2:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), qemu-system-common:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), libfaad2:amd64 (2.8.0~cvs20161113-1+deb9u1, 2.8.0~cvs20161113-1+deb9u2), liquidsoap-plugin-gstreamer:amd64 (1.1.1-7.2, 1.1.1-7.2+deb9u1), firmware-ipw2x00:amd64 (20190502-1~mx17+1, 20190717-1~mx17+1), libfribidi0:amd64 (0.19.7-1+b1, 0.19.7-1+deb9u1), qemu-system:amd64 (1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u7, 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u8), mesa-va-drivers:i386 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libxslt1.1:amd64 (1.1.29-2.1, 1.1.29-2.1+deb9u1), libxslt1.1:i386 (1.1.29-2.1, 1.1.29-2.1+deb9u1), base-files:amd64 (9.9+deb9u9, 9.9+deb9u11), tzdata:amd64 (2019a-0+deb9u1, 2019b-0+deb9u1), libglx-mesa0:amd64 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libglx-mesa0:i386 (18.3.2-1~mx17+1, 18.3.6-2~mx17+1), libdrm-common:amd64 (2.4.95-1~mx17+1, 2.4.97-1~mx17+1)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: libpam-systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12), systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12), gufw:amd64 (17.04.1-1.1), policykit-1:amd64 (0.105-18+deb9u1)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Install: rtkit:amd64 (0.11-4+deb9u1), paprefs:amd64 (0.9.10-2+b1), pulseaudio-module-zeroconf:amd64 (10.0-1+deb9u1, automatic), libpam-systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12, automatic), policykit-1:amd64 (0.105-18+deb9u1, automatic), pulseaudio-module-gconf:amd64 (10.0-1+deb9u1, automatic), libgconfmm-2.6-1v5:amd64 (2.28.3-1, automatic)
Commandline: apt remove libpam-systemd
Remove: libpam-systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove --purge --auto-remove systemd
Purge: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Install: systemd-sysv:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12, automatic)
Remove: systemd-sysv:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove systemd
Remove: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)
Commandline: apt remove --purge --auto-remove systemd
Purge: systemd:amd64 (232-25+deb9u12)

Furthermore the log shows my attempts getting rid of systemDuh which finally was successful.

# apt remove systemd
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Package 'systemd' is not installed, so not removed
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 13 not upgraded.

Now most of the cron issues, apple mouse issues, sound issues, cdemu issues, and what not also disappeared with the good riddance of systemD.
It did somehow mess with usb, as suddenly I cannot use some of my USB devices after systemD appeared.

I will have to reinstall the entire usb subsystem.

[richb]

I am very curious why most of us are running quite well without removing anything. Everything is just working for me both with MX 18.3 and MX 19 Beta 2.1. I have installed a lot of additional software as well from the Main and Test repos.

[zimbodel]

Final remaining question (*See my original post*)
Question2) Anyone has a way to ultimately block a package .... such as systemDuh to be banned from installing though apt/dpkg

[zimbodel]

I am very curious why most of us are running quite well without removing anything. Everything is just working for me both with MX 18.3 and MX 19 Beat 2.1

MX18 was one of the greatest Distros I ever use if systemD is removed. It absolutely worked spectacular for a couple of months running a myriad of tricky applications.

It is just this unwarranted installation of systemD that keeps happening not listed in the apt " to be installed" list which is curiously inadequate.

I got incredible latency improvements using MX18 over AVLinux for example, where systemD eventually also bit me and I had to search then already for a systemD free distro.

Except for systemD issue mentioned, MX18 was an absolute pleasure.

We dont get the same results because we diont use the same applications.
I am not saying that you are a mouse-pusher dont get me wrong, but my wife who is a mouse-pusher and knows nothing about programming or sysadmin happily use systemD debian 24/7 in her dayly work.
For me it just doesnt work. The deeper you delve into a systemD system the worse your day get. If you dont jump the mouse-push ship you will never encounter the SystemD shark in the water. That is my point why there are difference in experience.

99.9% of users are mouse-pushers and they wont even e.g. ever touch cron, setup a large virtual cdemu library, setup complex jack routes use extensive IO etc.
Therefore 99.9% of users will jump the very real systemD vicious shark.