Call This a Respin of a Respin? LXQT on AV Linux

[sunrat]

It appears that there's something special about using the option "--install-recommends".

It just installs other packages which may be needed to provide full functionality of the main package being installed. In Debian recommends are installed by default. For some odd reason MX disables installing recommends which can cause more problems than whatever it is trying to fix.
It's easy to change to the Debian default by editing /etc/apt/apt.conf and changing "0' to "1" in this line to:

Code: Select all

APT::Install-Recommends "1";

Many years ago some packages' maintainers would add recommends which were in no way essential for them to function properly but this is generally no longer the case.

[AVLinux]

@dreamer and others

I have a Gnome Boxes VM where I installed XFCE4 as proof of concept to see what actually happens if you install XFCE4 from MXPI "Popular Apps" into an AVL Enlightenment system and by and large it went well... except for QT5 display stuff as detailed here:
viewtopic.php?t=83291

On the same VM I completely removed XFCE4 with this one liner:
https://mxlinux.org/wiki/xfce/how-to-co ... move-xfce/
*Thunar was reinstalled

Then I installed PCManFM-QT which alone pulled in a lot of the LXQT base and then I picked the other LXQT components from the MX Test Repo (no issues with PipeWire etc.)... I tried Enlightenment as the WM but no go, then I tried Kwin-X11 which worked but gave me no mechanism to change themes or colors so I swapped Kwin for xfwm and that got me a basic LXQT setup and I LOVE the simplicity and modularity BUT I have the same QT color problems but much worse! If I actually hand modify a palette it to match the AVL skeuos GTK theme it still displays orange and brown, even using the LXQT palette tools color picker... it actually completely ignores what value is in the hexadecimal box!?

*Note

This VM has a fresh development version of AVL Enlightenment installed where the QT stuff is themed perfectly so I know for certain that my GTK themes coexist with QT gtk2 and palettes etc.
It's a Gnome-Boxes VM, possible display driver VM quirk..?
LXQT palette color chooser bug? It completely ignores the custom colors you pick or enter..
My Dev box has a (too) new nVidia Video card that is a bit flaky, perhaps this is a factor? It's weird that E displays perfectly in the VM tho..
I think I need to try the same thing on a different bare metal computer just to rule out if this is a bizarre Video display thing.
LXQT will overwrite your gtk3 config so if you are using it with E or another DE you better pick the same theme for both..

[AVLinux]

asides it's learning curve, enlightenment is a better DE than xfce, fractional scaling was a deal breaker for me to the extent I was already using enlightenment version of AVL before you made it the main and only version...

any person doing graphics with AVL will welcome enlightenment with open arms while accommodating the learning curve...

I would say KDE is the best all round DE but I don't like it because Qt is proprietary, I know that there is a GPL/open source version with less updates

Hi,

While I agree it seems we're VERY much in the minority with that opinion, if you read earlier in this thread (and several threads at ardour.org and linuxmusicians.com) the words 'learning + curve' are insurmountable for some people...

I tested KDE at length for several months, it's a wonderful DE but 3X the memory consumption of E and it's a nightmare to customize and deploy because it sprays configuration and settings files all over the place and I'm not going to hand edit dozens of QML module files etc. Even if I don't have to hand edit when ISO's are built every dotted 'i' and crossed 't' has to be perfectly set before the ISO builds and even on a fast machine a build and thorough boot test takes at least an hour, sometimes there are 20+ test cycles before a release not to mention the assembly and creation of the proper custom packages, utilities, themes etc.

[dreamer]

@dreamer and others

I have a Gnome Boxes VM where I installed XFCE4 as proof of concept to see what actually happens if you install XFCE4 from MXPI "Popular Apps" into an AVL Enlightenment system and by and large it went well... except for QT5 display stuff as detailed here:
viewtopic.php?t=83291

On the same VM I completely removed XFCE4 with this one liner:
https://mxlinux.org/wiki/xfce/how-to-co ... move-xfce/
*Thunar was reinstalled

Then I installed PCManFM-QT which alone pulled in a lot of the LXQT base and then I picked the other LXQT components from the MX Test Repo (no issues with PipeWire etc.)... I tried Enlightenment as the WM but no go, then I tried Kwin-X11 which worked but gave me no mechanism to change themes or colors so I swapped Kwin for xfwm and that got me a basic LXQT setup and I LOVE the simplicity and modularity BUT I have the same QT color problems but much worse! If I actually hand modify a palette it to match the AVL skeuos GTK theme it still displays orange and brown, even using the LXQT palette tools color picker... it actually completely ignores what value is in the hexadecimal box!?

I think you can install the kcm modules related to Kwin and make them show up in LXQt by modifying the desktop file. Normally kcm settings modules only show up in KDE and if you don't have KDE installed you have to install them manually first.

Code: Select all

DevBoxes@AVL-Boxes:~
$ env
SHELL=/bin/bash
SESSION_MANAGER=local/AVL-Boxes:@/tmp/.ICE-unix/1414,unix/AVL-Boxes:/tmp/.ICE-unix/1414
WINDOWID=62914563
QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1
COLORTERM=truecolor
XDG_CONFIG_DIRS=/etc/xdg
XDG_SESSION_PATH=/org/freedesktop/DisplayManager/Session0
XDG_MENU_PREFIX=xfce-
QT_LOGGING_RULES=qt.qpa.xcb.warning=false
SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/ssh-XXXXXXSztFfD/agent.1414
XDG_CONFIG_HOME=/home/DevBoxes/.config
DESKTOP_SESSION=xfce
SSH_AGENT_PID=1489
GTK_MODULES=gail:atk-bridge
XDG_SEAT=seat0
PWD=/home/DevBoxes
LOGNAME=DevBoxes
XDG_SESSION_DESKTOP=xfce
QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2
XDG_SESSION_TYPE=x11
PANEL_GDK_CORE_DEVICE_EVENTS=0
XAUTHORITY=/home/DevBoxes/.Xauthority
XDG_GREETER_DATA_DIR=/var/lib/lightdm/data/DevBoxes
HOME=/home/DevBoxes
LANG=en_US.UTF-8
LS_COLORS=rs=0:di=01;34:ln=01;36:mh=00:pi=40;33:so=01;35:do=01;35:bd=40;33;01:cd=40;33;01:or=40;31;01:mi=00:su=37;41:sg=30;43:ca=00:tw=30;42:ow=34;42:st=37;44:ex=01;32:*.tar=01;31:*.tgz=01;31:*.arc=01;31:*.arj=01;31:*.taz=01;31:*.lha=01;31:*.lz4=01;31:*.lzh=01;31:*.lzma=01;31:*.tlz=01;31:*.txz=01;31:*.tzo=01;31:*.t7z=01;31:*.zip=01;31:*.z=01;31:*.dz=01;31:*.gz=01;31:*.lrz=01;31:*.lz=01;31:*.lzo=01;31:*.xz=01;31:*.zst=01;31:*.tzst=01;31:*.bz2=01;31:*.bz=01;31:*.tbz=01;31:*.tbz2=01;31:*.tz=01;31:*.deb=01;31:*.rpm=01;31:*.jar=01;31:*.war=01;31:*.ear=01;31:*.sar=01;31:*.rar=01;31:*.alz=01;31:*.ace=01;31:*.zoo=01;31:*.cpio=01;31:*.7z=01;31:*.rz=01;31:*.cab=01;31:*.wim=01;31:*.swm=01;31:*.dwm=01;31:*.esd=01;31:*.avif=01;35:*.jpg=01;35:*.jpeg=01;35:*.mjpg=01;35:*.mjpeg=01;35:*.gif=01;35:*.bmp=01;35:*.pbm=01;35:*.pgm=01;35:*.ppm=01;35:*.tga=01;35:*.xbm=01;35:*.xpm=01;35:*.tif=01;35:*.tiff=01;35:*.png=01;35:*.svg=01;35:*.svgz=01;35:*.mng=01;35:*.pcx=01;35:*.mov=01;35:*.mpg=01;35:*.mpeg=01;35:*.m2v=01;35:*.mkv=01;35:*.webm=01;35:*.webp=01;35:*.ogm=01;35:*.mp4=01;35:*.m4v=01;35:*.mp4v=01;35:*.vob=01;35:*.qt=01;35:*.nuv=01;35:*.wmv=01;35:*.asf=01;35:*.rm=01;35:*.rmvb=01;35:*.flc=01;35:*.avi=01;35:*.fli=01;35:*.flv=01;35:*.gl=01;35:*.dl=01;35:*.xcf=01;35:*.xwd=01;35:*.yuv=01;35:*.cgm=01;35:*.emf=01;35:*.ogv=01;35:*.ogx=01;35:*.aac=00;36:*.au=00;36:*.flac=00;36:*.m4a=00;36:*.mid=00;36:*.midi=00;36:*.mka=00;36:*.mp3=00;36:*.mpc=00;36:*.ogg=00;36:*.ra=00;36:*.wav=00;36:*.oga=00;36:*.opus=00;36:*.spx=00;36:*.xspf=00;36:*~=00;90:*#=00;90:*.bak=00;90:*.old=00;90:*.orig=00;90:*.part=00;90:*.rej=00;90:*.swp=00;90:*.tmp=00;90:*.dpkg-dist=00;90:*.dpkg-old=00;90:*.ucf-dist=00;90:*.ucf-new=00;90:*.ucf-old=00;90:*.rpmnew=00;90:*.rpmorig=00;90:*.rpmsave=00;90:
XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=XFCE
VTE_VERSION=7006
QT_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2
XDG_SEAT_PATH=/org/freedesktop/DisplayManager/Seat0
XDG_CACHE_HOME=/home/DevBoxes/.cache
XDG_SESSION_CLASS=user
TERM=xterm-256color
USER=DevBoxes
DISPLAY=:0.0
SHLVL=1
XDG_VTNR=7
XDG_SESSION_ID=2
XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000
QT_PLATFORM_PLUGIN=gtk2
XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/share/xfce4:/home/DevBoxes/.local/share/flatpak/exports/share:/var/lib/flatpak/exports/share:/usr/local/share:/usr/share
PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games:/sbin:/usr/sbin
GDMSESSION=xfce
DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:path=/run/user/1000/bus
QT_SCALE_FACTOR=1
_=/usr/bin/env
DevBoxes@AVL-Boxes:~
$

With evironment variables full of Qt overrides maybe you won't be able to theme a Qt desktop properly. This is done by GUIs in KDE and LXQt and general/system-wide(?) env overrides might destroy that. Everything related to theming works in LXQt as far as I know. I have applied custom palettes without any issues. I think there is something like GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0 in my Cinnamon environment file. This makes this setting in Cinnamon GUI useless because it is overridden systemwide. I expect you have run into the same kind of issue related to Qt theming.

LXQT will overwrite your gtk3 config so if you are using it with E or another DE you better pick the same theme for both..

Yes as far as I know, non-gtk desktops like E, KDE and LXQt all write to settings.ini file in the gtk3 folder. So all non-gtk desktops overwrite gtk config.

[AVLinux]

@dreamer

Thanks again for the info, your time is appreciated!

I don't actually know if all of the QT overrides are from Enlightenment or MX defaults from the XFCE4 install..? In any case I think maybe they don't make good playmates but I haven't heard the same color complaints from @macronus... Something else is my File Manager Actions don't appear because my launchers are set up for E, XFCE4 and KDE but that's an expected issue and a 'me problem'.

I am intrigued by LXQT enough to consider an ISO made explicitly for it and seeing what's possible but I don't have time to juggle that right now with trying to fix some AVL/Enlightenment quirks.. I build ISO's with build-iso-mx (not Snapshot) so a niggling issue is I have to use stuff from the MX regular Repos so I'd miss out on the 1.3.0 updates in MX Test. What about Kvantum? How does that work? I've never used it I've seen screenshots where it very much looks like older Enlightenment skeumorphic themes. How does it handle the GTK issue? Oh, and also how do you handle switching the xfwm themes, I agree with you it's a better idea than Kwin in the interest of a low resource alternative..

If you have an ISO with some/all of this sorted out I think there's some potential! I'm going to revise some of the custom AVL File Action stuff to better potentially accommodate LXQT/PCManFM and I'm going to put the xfwm themes back in so they are available for use with both XFCE4 and LXQT..

[dreamer]

Let me correct myself before someone else does. System-wide you can probably have whatever Qt env variables you like unless you care about your root account.

However, if you have manually set Qt env variables in .bashrc or in .profile or in a Qt5 folder in .config in your home folder you can probably expect Qt desktops to be broken.

What about Kvantum? How does that work? I've never used it I've seen screenshots where it very much looks like older Enlightenment skeuomorphic themes.

Yea, that’s one aspect that makes me smile. I remember trying Moksha desktop once and there was this out of this world theme with glowing blue buttons and extremely skeuomorphic design. It was like a spaceship and I liked it. Kvantum has something like that, but maybe less extreme. I tend to stay away from dark themes.

How does it handle the GTK issue?

What gtk issue? :) If you have more than one non-gtk desktop installed you just have to accept that each overwrite gtk theme settings. Use same gtk theme for those non-gtk desktops or create a separate user account for each desktop.

and also how do you handle switching the xfwm themes

There are three desktop files related to Xfwm. Window Manager, Window Manager Tweaks and Workspace. You simply modify their desktop files to show up in LXQt. I think by default they have the line OnlyShowIn=XFCE; in them so you just add LXQt; and they show up.

If you have an ISO with some/all of this sorted out I think there's some potential!

I have an (by now) old LXQt 1.3 iso that should work just fine. It still has the lxrandr package on it so uninstall that package first thing you do and save a monitor configuration in LXQt Monitor/Display settings to avoid an unnecessary notification at login.

This iso might not have a lot of beautiful themes on it, but all the basics should work including Kvantum themes. If something doesn’t work theming wise that would be a new thing to me. There are a lot of little details to Kvantum themes, both in Kvantum Manager and each Kvantum theme also has its own config file with even more settings. Kvantum does NOT respect color palette changes in LXQt since Kvantum is a separate theme engine.

If you want to try color palette start with Breeze Qt style that is set up by default on the iso. LXQt has separate theming for the panel. Unfortunately, there is a small issue with LXQt "system theme" for the panel. Taskbar button text is centered instead of left aligned. You can choose another LXQt/panel theme or switch off taskbar button labels.

Application menu search is slow so install lxqt-runner from MX test repo and reboot. Now the daemon is running and you launch lxqt-runner by pressing Alt+F2. This way you can launch applications faster from the keyboard.

Try it out…
viewtopic.php?t=80729

[AVLinux]

Thanks @dreamer

This sounds perfect! Downloading now and will put it in a VM later today! Kudos for your work, I know how much effort it takes to put these things together especially with the unsupported DE's and reading the release notes you've done a great job!

Being the so-called resident LXQT guru do you think that the 1.3.0 packages in Test could be moved to MX main? We could ask if you aren't aware of any barriers in upgrading from LXQT 1.2.0 - 1.3.0..

I think in the meantime I may swap out some auxiliary things in AVL to LXQT components (ie MousePad-Featherpad, XFCE4 Taskmanager-QPS, Mirage-LXImage etc.) right now this palettes problem has me dead-stopped as far as a full dual-DE ISO. I'm a sucker for compositing and E composites beautifully at minimal cost, I'm sure picom/compton are options for LXQT but in my AVL XFCE4 days I found compton was goofy with CSD windows and had other quirks..

*EDIT

Running in a VM now, what an excellent Respin! Great stuff!

[Aceediq]

Thanks @dreamer

This sounds perfect! Downloading now and will put it in a VM later today! Kudos for your work, I know how much effort it takes to put these things together especially with the unsupported DE's and reading the release notes you've done a great job!

Being the so-called resident LXQT guru do you think that the 1.3.0 packages in Test could be moved to MX main? We could ask if you aren't aware of any barriers in upgrading from LXQT 1.2.0 - 1.3.0..

I think in the meantime I may swap out some auxiliary things in AVL to LXQT components (ie MousePad-Featherpad, XFCE4 Taskmanager-QPS, Mirage-LXImage etc.) right now this palettes problem has me dead-stopped as far as a full dual-DE ISO. I'm a sucker for compositing and E composites beautifully at minimal cost, I'm sure picom/compton are options for LXQT but in my AVL XFCE4 days I found compton was goofy with CSD windows and had other quirks..

*EDIT

Running in a VM now, what an excellent Respin! Great stuff!

how is the rendering like? picom or compton? if it is compton, I don't think I would try it out on a whim, but since you made such a comment, if I try it live, I might install it and use it for a while, I manually partion when installing so I can try different OS without over writing my /home partition...

[Aceediq]

Double posting

[AVLinux]

@dreamer

Great Respin! I have success with QT5/GTK theming on yours, simply choosing my custom GTK themes and then the gtk2 style as you would expect instantly made everything look as expected and match up, no playing with palettes. Getting around LXQT is pretty intuitive and you've done an excellent job of putting in all the little 'extras'.

It appears perhaps cohabitating with Enlightenment may be an issue for QT5 theming when a QT DE is installed side by side but on it's own LXQT works as expected, that's the good news.. That bad news is I'm kind of shocked at the RAM consumption, in a Boxes VM LXQT uses about double the RAM of E and about the same as XFCE4.. One of my beefs with XFCE4 is it's RAM consumption for a pretty blah visual experience and I hoped LXQT would be somewhere in between..

Gratuitous screenshot of PCManFM, Thunar and MX Tools all uniformly themed with the 'Default Flat' AVL Skeuos GTK theme on dreamer's LXQT spin.