Windows is overwriting my Linux EFI Bootloader. [Solved]

[operadude]

overwriting your EFI Bootloader every time you boot Windows

Is it really the Linux EFi Bootloader they are overwriting, or is it rather the position within the boot order list?

You are correct, it is changing the boot order list, but the title is designed to draw in folk who have experienced this unlawful behavoiur.

In priortising the Windows boot code and allowing the elevation of such in a boot order list that was previously set and ordered by the machines administrator or owner, these manufacturers are assisting and abiding in a type of illegal activity by facilitating a tampering at the lowest level of the owners chosen options. Whichever way they do it, to permit such a change to be made without the users knowledge or consent does not remove their liability before the law.

The fact is, for affected machines where Linux has been set as the users chosen default OS in a dual boot set-up with Windows, when a single run of the Windows system on that machine is sufficient to trigger an unwarranted change to the users chosen boot settings, the facilitator of such is implicated in the offense.

Concerning the use of the Motherboards and licenses for such, at no time did I agree to, nor consent to a license agreement from the motherboard manufacturer. Same goes for my laptops, therefore I am free to do as I see fit with the hardware concerning what OS I choose to run. I just turned it on and it worked, until I found the anomaly that caused me to question it's origin, source, intent and the path to remedial action to fix it.

@fehlix

m_pav: you are my hero And now, to take-up the mantle!

I mentioned Fehlix because of his tremendous help, in oh, so many ways, to all of us on the Forum, but in particular, regarding your issue, here's a snippet from 4 years ago:

https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p668404

He helped me tremendously with a multi-boot setup. My final configuration was to put Windows 7 on a separate internal drive, which is NOT on the boot order, but is accessed only by entering SETUP prior to the "rEFInd" gui/menu.

So, it seems that I have set-up my system in the OPPOSITE way in which you have, where to get Windows I have to hit F12, and not the other way around, i.e., getting Linux by hitting F12. I use Windows maybe once every 6 - 12 months (to play classic DOOM).

I realize that my situation is a work-around, and does not directly impact your issue, which is CRITICAL Oh, and BTW, I would probably NEVER have discovered any of this without the Master's help (Username begins with "f" and ends with "x")

So, yeah, your point is SO frustratingly relevant that I cringe at the very prospect of trying to fight "city hall"; but what choice do we have?

I am willing to help in the fight, and would ask you if you could develop a short (bullet-point?) list of clear items/statements to take to an OEM? Mine is Gigabyte (daily driver), but I have somewhere in the range of 50 computers (I collect throw-aways), so I could conceivably write to almost all of the OEM's. And, yes, I have installed Linux on nearly all of them!

Lastly, would it be possible for you to divulge the name of the OEM you had the correspondence with? Or, would that compromise your position with that OEM?

Anyway...You Are the Best!

The Dude (no, not that one; the Opera-Dude)

[m_pav]

@davidy yes, I received a BIOS update which is the very thing I requested in each of my communications with the manufacturer.
I woke this morning to another message which said BIOS (version I was using) had a different "rule" for the boot priority options, so yes, another admission, and I guess at that, if his superiors were to investigate the ticket, he could potentially be reprimanded for such a thing.

@operadude I'd rather not give away the manufacturer and I/m not sure if a blow by blow bulletpoint would be of much assistance because I just flew by the seat of my pants on this one. As I said in the first post under The Breakthrough heading, Fact is, I'm just too stupid to let it go and it takes me far too long to find the right words. Nevertheless, I will post some elements of the conversation below.

My Initial complaint
I use Linux 99.9999% of the time but I have a minimal Windows installation available on a tiny partition on my 2nd NVME drive to perform operations like checking for BIOS updates. Every time I boot into the Windows system the Windows EFI bootloader is elevated the top position and I can only get back into MX Linux by using the BBS F12 Hot-key

Their response - We do not test dual OS on 1 storage device

My 1st response key elements only
I don't think you read my issue very clearly
I never said I had them on the same device, each is on it’s own drive, each has its own efi bootloader, oth require repair after a single boot instance of Windows.
[manufacturer] have no Linux utility for BIOS updates, Leaving only Windows, or a requirement to strip down my machine, remove the CPU and RAM, make a USB Flash drive and BIOS update through the specified port. [manufacturers] in-BIOS update procedure always fails to recognise BIOS on USB, so we’re left with either dual boot or a full strip-down which is completely unacceptable.

Linux and Windows are on separate storage drives makes no difference if both on the same storage device. Tried all combinations, proved issue is a grievous BIOS bug. BIOS should NEVER permit a single Windows boot instance to modify a users saved OS boot loader preferences. Please provide a BIOS fix that will not permit the modification of my saved boot device, EFI Bootloader, or any combination set and saved in the BIOS.
I have installed Linux in dual boot set-ups no less than 3,000 times over the last 20 years and I've never seen such a virulent ugly BIOS bug as this, Only a BIOS fix will cure this.

Their 2nd response - As mentioned, the Windows Boot Manager boot option will be prioritized in the BIOS. This goes for all our models. You can press F12 key during boot up, to select the Boot priority device.

My 2nd response
I’ve been supporting Windows and Linux users for many years, and in both types, I have good understanding of problem solving and the lengths we must go to, to facilitate a successful outcome. I would not presume to ask for assistance had I not first exhausted every conceivable method available to me. F12 is a Bios Boot Selector key that permits a one-time boot, it is not a fix. Having used F12 to get back to my chosen OS, If I reboot without first repairing the damages to the EFI boot loaders, the machine will reboot back to Windows. When I then repeat the F12 BBS to load GRUB so I can boot into Linux and repair the EFI boot loaders, on reboot, my machine loads into preferred Linux OS and continues to do so. The next time choose to boot into Windows again by selecting it through the GRUB Boot loader, your Windows prioritisation once again allows my boot choices to be modified without my consent and I have to perform the fixes yet again.

This is not an acceptable position, where a users saved BIOS Boot choices are changed without their knowledge or consent simply by a single run of Windows. Such an action if left unchanged after having received notification of it can be challenged through legal process and wider opinion through the various Linux communities. Inaction on [manufacturers] part having now been made aware of this is aiding and abiding in a mischievous activity.

In it’s current form your Windows boot prioritisation is acting as a kill switch and your responses up till now are indicative of deliberate mischievous intent that leads to wilful damage, therefore I urge you to take this matter seriously and put some time and effort into getting it resolved by providing a BIOS fix. If this is not fixed to my satisfaction, I will be forced to escalate the matter to the various authorities

Skipping some of the challenge/response steps here, moving through their 3rd to 4th responses which both ended with F12 as their answer. I started this thread with my 5th & 6th responses in post # 1, and their 7th response and remedial action by way of a BIOS Update is found on page 1, post #9 of this thread.

After installing the BIOS update I found a much revamped and easily identifiable page in the BIOS, in which of all 6 of my internal drives and the 2 discovered EFI boot loaders were listed, ( a little confusing in the way they did EFI Boot Loaders ), but it was simple enough to raise the NVME drive with the GRUB boot loader into the priority boot position and thereby de-throne Windows.

For a simpler setup with dual-boot on a single storage drive, where the Linux installation has it's own EFI GRUB bootloader which is distinctly separate from the Windows EFI bootloader, it should be simple enough to select the appropriate one, so I am happy to accept the issue as resolved. I thanked [manufacturer] for their service, and I sincerely hope they will not allow such a virulent feature to be allowed again in the future.

[operadude]

@m_pav

Got it, and thanks for sharing the "deets"

[uncle mark]

@m_pav

Since we can't do Likes or Reps or anything like that here, all I can say is Bravo!

[muskt]

Hello. I don't post much--mostly because I do not use MX very much. I do, however have MX 23.4 installed and operational on both my Dell laptop (Running Windows 10), and my desktop (Homegrown Asus MB, Samsung SSD, & AMD CPU) (Running Windows 11 24H2).
I have, for at least the last 10 years. dual booted every computer I have owned (several), and have never experienced the situation that the OP reports. Not once.
Possibly, I just do not understand what he is referring to.
I usually do a fresh install of MX when a new version is presented as opposed to upgrading. When doing a fresh install, I must also install Grub. I have determined that Grub must be installed into the 100MB partition or only Windows boots. When installed into the 100MB partition, Grub seems happy.
Approximately 30 minutes ago, I booted MX & changed the boot order to MX first. Rebooted and all was OK. The selection showed MX first & it booted correctly. Rebooted and selected Windows, & again, all was well. Windows booted correctly. Rebooted again and selected MX, & MX booted correctly. I reset the boot order to Windows first and rebooted. Windows booted correctly. Rebooted again, & selected MX. Again, no issues.
If this is post is totally off-base, or "just plain stupid", either have a mod to remove it or tell me to remove it.

Just remember========You can't hurt my feelings, I used to hold the flashlight for my father.
Jerry

[uncle mark]

I have, for at least the last 10 years. dual booted every computer I have owned (several), and have never experienced the situation that the OP reports. Not once.
Possibly, I just do not understand what he is referring to.

It's most likely a function of Mike's specific hardware (i.e. motherboard). Regardless, the behavior he described is unacceptable, and he should be commended for taking on the manufacturer and getting them to admit their bios/uefi coding was acting in a malicious manner, and forcing them to come up with a true fix. Us FOSS users need more people like Mike fighting on our behalf.

[davidy]

Nailed em huh? If you go to frys or best buy and try and buy a new pc it's lke they are pushing the latest Windows OS and not really the hardware at all. One choice in OS, 50 in the box it runs on. Makes one realize that the so-called "secure boot" is nothing more than another scam hailed as a security feature. Unfng believable you had to threaten them just to get a fix for something that should never happen in the 1st place. Secureboot my arse.

[m_pav]

It was the BIOSs' Windows prioritisation "!cough*" feature that was causing the issue. When I first got this mobo, it wouldn't run any Linux and I went in and out of the BIOS setting trying all sorts of things, and that was before I even started down the track with Windows. I had a prior bug report with the manufacturer where I was unable to upgrade the BIOS using BIOSs' own built in update tool and in the end I had to strip it back to a bare motherboard with no RAM or CPU, and insert a flash drive with a renamed copy of their latest BIOS version , press and hold a button while powering it on watch the on-board LEDS until they flickered. I was meant to look for reds/greens, but I'm colour defective in both those colours, so there is no red/green to me, they're either on or off. I did prior research on the flash sequences and that was enough to let me know I wasn't creating a boat anchor.

If you read this far, you've done well, and you will hopefully begin to understand why I was so insistent on them providing a BIOS fix because the only other "Safe" way for me to do BIOS updates is through their only supported OS, despite the fact it drives me around the bend when I had to use it for my last job. This mainboard did have other quirks besides the "Windows kill switch", but I haven't had the time to test the one remaining issue, for that I need to get some cash first.