MX Linux Forum

Posted: **Fri Jan 19, 2024 3:19 pm**

It's time to look for a replacement for my 13 year old Gateway machine. I pulled it out of retirement about 6 months ago to test drive MX 23 Linux on a desktop. But I'd like to find a suitable more modern system to replace it.

My current machine is a 2nd generation i5 maxed out at 16 GB RAM. It's limited to USB 2 and it's not worth the upgrade to USB 3. VGA is the only working video port as HDMI is dead.

Been looking at newer mini PCs. Some of them are NUCs with N95 or N100 processors. Not sure how these compare to an i5? Don't want to step down in performance just for a smaller size or lower cost.

Otherwise I might consider an i5 mini PC. There are refurbs at decent prices. I want at least 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD, plus lots of USB3 ports.

Constructive thoughts and ideas are welcome.

Code: Select all

System:
  Kernel: 6.1.0-17-amd64 [6.1.69-1] arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0
    parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1.0-17-amd64 root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet splash
  Desktop: Xfce v: 4.18.1 tk: Gtk v: 3.24.36 info: xfce4-panel wm: xfwm v: 4.18.0 vt: 7
    dm: LightDM v: 1.26.0 Distro: MX-23.1_x64 Libretto July 24  2023 base: Debian GNU/Linux 12
    (bookworm)
Machine:
  Type: Desktop Mobo: Gateway model: DX4850 serial: <superuser required> BIOS: American Megatrends
    v: P01-A3 date: 02/11/2011
CPU:
  Info: model: Intel Core i5-2300 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Sandy Bridge gen: core 2 level: v2
    built: 2010-12 process: Intel 32nm family: 6 model-id: 0x2A (42) stepping: 7 microcode: 0x2F
  Topology: cpus: 1x cores: 4 smt: <unsupported> cache: L1: 256 KiB desc: d-4x32 KiB; i-4x32 KiB
    L2: 1024 KiB desc: 4x256 KiB L3: 6 MiB desc: 1x6 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 1825 high: 2028 min/max: 1600/3100 scaling: driver: intel_cpufreq
    governor: ondemand cores: 1: 2028 2: 1825 3: 1714 4: 1734 bogomips: 22347
  Flags: avx ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx
  Vulnerabilities:
  Type: gather_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: VMX disabled
  Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion; VMX: conditional cache flushes, SMT disabled
  Type: mds mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT disabled
  Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI
  Type: mmio_stale_data status: Unknown: No mitigations
  Type: retbleed status: Not affected
  Type: spec_rstack_overflow status: Not affected
  Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl
  Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
  Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Retpolines, IBPB: conditional, IBRS_FW, STIBP: disabled, RSB
    filling, PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected
  Type: srbds status: Not affected
  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics
    vendor: Acer Incorporated ALI driver: i915 v: kernel arch: Gen-6 code: Sandybridge
    process: Intel 32nm built: 2011 ports: active: VGA-1 empty: DP-1,HDMI-A-1 bus-ID: 00:02.0
    chip-ID: 8086:0102 class-ID: 0300
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 compositor: xfwm v: 4.18.0 driver: X:
    loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: crocus gpu: i915 display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1920x1080 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 508x285mm (20.00x11.22") s-diag: 582mm (22.93")
  Monitor-1: VGA-1 model: Asus VE278 serial: <filter> built: 2012 res: 1920x1080 hz: 60 dpi: 82
    gamma: 1.2 size: 598x336mm (23.54x13.23") diag: 686mm (27") ratio: 16:9 modes: max: 1920x1080
    min: 720x400
  API: OpenGL v: 3.3 Mesa 22.3.6 renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 2000 (SNB GT1)
    direct-render: Yes
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 6 Series/C200 Series Family High Definition Audio vendor: Acer Incorporated ALI 6
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:1c20 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-17-amd64 status: kernel-api tools: alsamixer,amixer
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.0.0 status: active with: 1: pipewire-pulse status: active
    2: wireplumber status: active 3: pipewire-alsa type: plugin 4: pw-jack type: plugin
    tools: pactl,pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl
Network:
  Device-1: Intel 82579V Gigabit Network vendor: Acer Incorporated ALI driver: e1000e v: kernel
    port: f080 bus-ID: 00:19.0 chip-ID: 8086:1503 class-ID: 0200
  IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
  IF-ID-1: virbr0 state: down mac: <filter>
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 447.13 GiB used: 217.23 GiB (48.6%)
  SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
  ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Crucial model: CT480BX500SSD1 size: 447.13 GiB block-size:
    physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: SSD serial: <filter> rev: 054 scheme: MBR
Partition:
  ID-1: / raw-size: 447.13 GiB size: 439.04 GiB (98.19%) used: 217.23 GiB (49.5%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/sda1 maj-min: 8:1
Swap:
  Kernel: swappiness: 45 (default 60) cache-pressure: 100 (default)
  ID-1: swap-1 type: file size: 4 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2 file: /swap/swap
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 45.0 C mobo: N/A
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
Repos:
  Packages: 3119 pm: dpkg pkgs: 3089 libs: 1646 tools: apt,apt-get,aptitude,nala,synaptic pm: rpm
    pkgs: 0 pm: flatpak pkgs: 30
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/brave-browser-release.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64] https://brave-browser-apt-release.s3.brave.com/ bullseye main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
    1: deb http://la.mirrors.clouvider.net/debian bookworm-updates main contrib non-free
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
    1: deb http://la.mirrors.clouvider.net/debian bookworm main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
    2: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main contrib non-free
    3: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm main contrib
    4: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates main contrib
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64] https://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-earth-pro.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64] http://dl.google.com/linux/earth/deb/ stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/microsoft-edge.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64] https://packages.microsoft.com/repos/edge/ stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/microsoft-prod.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64,arm64,armhf] https://packages.microsoft.com/debian/11/prod bullseye main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mono-official-vs.list
    1: deb https://download.mono-project.com/repo/debian vs-buster main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list
    1: deb http://la.mxrepo.com/mx/repo/ bookworm main non-free
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ookla_speedtest-cli.list
    1: deb [signed-by=/etc/apt/keyrings/ookla_speedtest-cli-archive-keyring.gpg] https://packagecloud.io/ookla/speedtest-cli/debian/ bookworm main
    2: deb-src [signed-by=/etc/apt/keyrings/ookla_speedtest-cli-archive-keyring.gpg] https://packagecloud.io/ookla/speedtest-cli/debian/ bookworm main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/scootersoftware.list
    1: deb [signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/scootersoftware-keyring.gpg] https://www.scootersoftware.com/ bcompare4 non-free
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/vscode.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64,arm64,armhf] http://packages.microsoft.com/repos/code stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/winehq-bookworm.sources
    1: deb [arch=amd64 i386] https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/debian bookworm main
Info:
  Processes: 296 Uptime: 19m wakeups: 0 Memory: 15.53 GiB used: 3.38 GiB (21.8%) Init: systemd
  v: 252 target: graphical (5) default: graphical tool: systemctl Compilers: gcc: 12.2.0 alt: 12
  Client: shell wrapper v: 5.2.15-release inxi: 3.3.26
Boot Mode: BIOS (legacy, CSM, MBR)

Posted: **Fri Jan 19, 2024 4:00 pm**

The best mini's I have used are the Lenovo Mxxx series. (Tiny pc's) . Flat out they just run and run and run .. no weird issues that I have seen and are pretty dang fast too! (I dont buy anything under an i5 .. or I will be disappointment ;/ )

I have a supplier that has them sometimes in stock, used and cheap! Otherwise, they run more $ than a lot of the mini's , but sometimes you can catch bargains on amazon.

Posted: **Fri Jan 19, 2024 4:03 pm**

I've used Intel NUCs with MX Linux and they run great. I've tried various generations of i5 CPUs. They use about 50% of the energy of a typical desktop machine.

Intel are phasing them out, which seems odd.

Chris

Posted: **Fri Jan 19, 2024 4:17 pm**

chrispop99 wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 4:03 pm Intel are phasing them out, which seems odd.

Recently read where Asus is taking over from Intel...

Posted: **Fri Jan 19, 2024 5:41 pm**

skallal wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 4:17 pm
chrispop99 wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 4:03 pm Intel are phasing them out, which seems odd.
Recently read where Asus is taking over from Intel...

That would be a good result.

Chris

Posted: **Fri Jan 19, 2024 5:42 pm**

Code: Select all

$ inxi -Fxz
System:
  Kernel: 6.1.60-antix.1-amd64-smp arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc
    v: 12.2.0 Desktop: IceWM v: 3.4.5 Distro: antiX-23.1-runit_x64-full Arditi
    del Popolo 6 November 2023 base: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
Machine:
  Type: Desktop System: WYSE product: ZQ Class v: Rev 1
    serial: <superuser required>
  Mobo: Inventec model: ZQ Class v: A02 serial: <superuser required>
    UEFI-[Legacy]: Phoenix v: 1.0L date: 11/13/2014
CPU:
  Info: quad core model: AMD GX-420CA SOC with Radeon HD Graphics bits: 64
    type: MCP arch: Jaguar rev: 1 cache: L1: 256 KiB L2: 2 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 1996 min/max: N/A cores: 1: 1996 2: 1996 3: 1996 4: 1996
    bogomips: 15970
  Flags: avx ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm
Graphics:
  Device-1: AMD Kabini [Radeon HD 8400E] driver: radeon v: kernel arch: GCN-2
    bus-ID: 00:01.0
  Display: server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 driver: X: loaded: radeon
    unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa dri: radeonsi gpu: radeon
    resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz
  API: EGL v: 1.4,1.5 drivers: kms_swrast,radeonsi,swrast platforms:
    active: gbm,x11,surfaceless,device inactive: wayland
  API: OpenGL v: 4.5 vendor: amd mesa v: 22.3.6 glx-v: 1.4
    direct-render: yes renderer: KABINI ( LLVM 15.0.6 DRM 2.50
    6.1.60-antix.1-amd64-smp)
Audio:
  Device-1: AMD Kabini HDMI/DP Audio driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel
    bus-ID: 00:01.1
  Device-2: AMD FCH Azalia vendor: Inventec driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel
    bus-ID: 00:14.2
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.60-antix.1-amd64-smp status: kernel-api
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.0.1 status: active
Network:
  Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet
    driver: r8169 v: kernel port: 1000 bus-ID: 01:00.0
  IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 119.24 GiB used: 17.21 GiB (14.4%)
  ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: SanDisk model: SD8SB8U128G1122 size: 119.24 GiB
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 57.37 GiB used: 17.21 GiB (30.0%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1
Swap:
  ID-1: swap-1 type: file size: 4.05 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) file: /swap/swap
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 52.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: radeon temp: 52.0 C
  Fan Speeds (rpm): N/A
Info:
  Processes: 140 Uptime: 1m Memory: total: 4 GiB note: est.
  available: 3.26 GiB used: 940.5 MiB (28.1%) Init: runit runlevel: 2
  Compilers: gcc: 12.2.0 Packages: 1737 Shell: Bash v: 5.2.15 inxi: 3.3.31

Congrats ! epc-pa accepted your offer of US $34.00.

Posted: **Fri Jan 19, 2024 6:09 pm**

does a laptop fit the "mini" category?
New hp 17 inch start at $300, for $400 it is an i5 chip worth $340, i guess the rest of the notebook is free! I saw an unusual thing at levovo; a mini with linux operating system at lenovo.

Posted: **Fri Jan 19, 2024 8:00 pm**

I prefer the Dell Small Form Factor aka SFF case size PCs as refurbs/hand-me-downs. The smaller Micro size ones don't include an optical drive. The SFF has space for a full-size mechanical (spinning rust) drive or two SSDs without having to remove the optical drive. Two SFF-type PCs can fit inside the space occupied by a full-size tower.

With 4 memory slots, I can get up to 32 GB (older models - newer 64 GB). The Micro form factor and laptops only have 2 memory slots. More than 2 USB 3 jacks (front and rear) on the SFF size is also an advantage over the Micro size.

The only con I see with the SFF vs a tower is the 240-watt power supply and the smaller case restricts video card choices. I'm not a gamer so the video issue is n/a for me.

My Dell Optiplex 5070 Small Form Factor Used can be had for as little as $100 USD (bare bones - no hard drive) to ~$400 USD with lots of memory, big SSD and a Windows 11 license.

HTH

Posted: **Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:56 pm**

I recently procrastinated about a similar thing as you've described - go mini format or another desktop.
I tried a small format PC with an i7 processor and 500Gb NVME SSD and it probably would have suited anyone whose use case is browsing and (very) light gaming and not too many intensive tasks. It's not that I believe the small format isn't necessarily up to those tasks but the heat generated in such a small enclosure must surely ultimately lead to issues.
So in the end I decided on an enclosure that houses a B550M PRO-VDH WIFI (MS-7C95) motherboard, AMD Ryzen 5 5500 processor and with a 1Gb NVME SSD and am very pleased with the performance and quite operation.
Such a machine (depending on your country of course) should be able to be built (either by yourself or a shop) for something less than $1k USD. Obviously, getting a machine pre-built for you would add about $100USD to the equation but I fancy such a system would still come in under the $1k mark.

Posted: **Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:25 pm**

I agree with CharlesV, get a Lenovo. Of the 3 intel NUCs I've purchased ...,
The first in 2012, a Celeron 847 based unit is still in daily use extending the life of a 55" Smart TV where the manufacturer doesn't support it any more. It's doing great with MX19.
The second in 2016, a Celeron N3050 turned out to be a total POJ, promising 1080P but never delivered, it has less grunt than a 2008 Core2 Duo. Its still lives today, but that's because I've never found a use for it that it can handle.
The third one, a 2016 6th Gen i5 I purchased as a used unit lasted only a few months before going belly up. I sent to to a motherboard circuit repair specialist who said, the processor failed.

Further to that, I've seen many a wholesaler try to sell off refurbished NUC's, which leads me to question their build quality.

Go for something solid (Lenovo) and jam in as much SSD storage and RAM as you can.

Posted: **Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:28 pm**

m_pav wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:25 pm Further to that, I've seen many a wholesaler try to sell off refurbished NUC's, which leads me to question their build quality.

Intel recently announced they were stopping or selling off their NUC product line, so you may get a cheap model as retailers try to clear out the last units of a discontinued series. I still have a NUC that I'm using as a daily driver. It looks like it's about 9 years old and it has no real problems other than that it periodically shuts off or power cycles randomly a few times a year. This may be an Intel thing. It may be a Windows thing. I suspect that investigating the problem will be more trouble than it's worth and potentially more destructive to the equipment, too.

To its credit, the NUC line spawned a number of copycat systems. System76 has the Meerkat, and their big thing is that their hardware runs Linux natively. Shuttle makes a fanless "Express" unit that I use to adequately play music and videos on a television at 720p, but I wouldn't recommend it for gaming or compiling kernels.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:39 am**

www.zotac.com

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:09 am**

I'm not the biggest fan of Mini PCs. They usually use laptop hardware, get hot and have very limited IO due to the space contraints. So I'd rather recommend to build a custom system in the small ITX form factor. It's a little bigger, but you get a lot more bang for the buck. You have to be comfortable building in a small case, though, and know your way around hardware well to pick out parts in the right size.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2024 3:39 pm**

chrispop99 wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 5:41 pm Recently read where Asus is taking over from Intel...

That would be a good result.

Chris
[/quote]

https://beebom.com/asus-nuc-extreme-dis ... continues/

Posted: **Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:56 am**

I have a couple minisforum minis and they are excellent. All their new models support dual pci-e gen4 nvme's and ddr5. They have a barebones (add OS, mem, & nvme's) for $560 that runs the amd ryzen9 7940hs which is an 8c/16t laptop processor with a 4Ghz base clock up to 5.2Ghz if pushed. Since it's a minipc it doesn't even need to use the wifi or bt it has onboard. It supports raid 0 & 1 and if you put a simple filter on the vents it is almost zero maintenance. I use electrostatic filters you can get at homedepot or the like. I took the snapshot iso from my intel laptop and installed it to my amd HM90 and it works perfect after tweaking it to the device specific specs. I payed like 450 for my hm90 and about 3 something for my um350. My um350 boots/reboots win10 in literally 10s flat to a working desktop.
store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-um790-pro
They have EU online outlets as well.
Building your own with a miniitx board and a small case would be lots of fun but I rather like opening the box, adding drives and memory, plugging it in, installing an os and simply booting. Saves lots of time and headache and you don't worry about compatibility issues.

Posted: **Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:37 am**

MadMax wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:09 am I'm not the biggest fan of Mini PCs. They usually use laptop hardware, get hot and have very limited IO due to the space contraints. So I'd rather recommend to build a custom system in the small ITX form factor. It's a little bigger, but you get a lot more bang for the buck. You have to be comfortable building in a small case, though, and know your way around hardware well to pick out parts in the right size.

As I suggested in my earlier post to this thread, I have to agree now with Max, heat is always going to be an issue with small form factor units IF you are doing more than simple browsing and etc. Throw in CPU intensive tasks like video editing (which the OP may not have need of) or other such tasks, then issues probably will arise. Whether those issues are something that cause more than momentary slow downs or whether they ultimately lead to hardware failure I suppose is anyone's guess. Max has cited limited IO and indeed that surely can be an issue. Simplest things as patching your 5.1 sound system to the mini pc can cause problems.

Posted: **Thu Jan 25, 2024 5:01 am**

I have used BEELINK products for a few years now, usually the more cheaper units for simple tasks, but OK for simple video editing.

They are still going strong. But I recommend that you find one where there is space in the drive for a second SSD, at least for storage space, or a clean install of MX-Linux. I am not a fan of dual booting.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2024 8:18 pm**

I bought a schitts audio device and returned it as my minipc would not recognize it. My audioengine one works fine however and is actually better anyway cause it has controls on it the schitts one doesn't. Glad it didn't work in the end. But yeah the peripherals may be an issue for sure, not just your wireless stuff. Less is more in my playbook.

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