MX Linux Forum

Hi AVL and MX'ers

I've decided that swimming upstream against PipeWire is probably going to cause me more grief than just getting on with it for the next AV Linux 23 release so on my MXDE-EFL 21.3 Dev box I have been testing PipeWire 0.3.79 and after making a few common newbie mistakes I'm starting to get my head wrapped around it. We Audio nuts are used to having much to do with tweaking and configuring the Audio server so I'm working on some tools to make this more graphically easier and also to make common stuff like WirePlumber's status a little prettier to look at, here's what I have so far:

We can change the PipeWire quantum (buffer) and Sample Rate setting with PipeWire's 'pw-metadata' commands, This is a temporary setting for your running session and is a different thing than diving in to hacking the actual PipeWire configuration files, although those files will be added to the 'System Editor' for people who feel confident to make system-wide changes permanent... So I've done up a little YAD utility to make this graphically easier, it will set your quantum (buffer), then set your sample rate and lastly show you that your settings have been made.
Also we can look at our Wireplumber status in a regular Dialog window.. These tools are VERY simple and my scripting skills are quite infantile but I'm planning to keep then unbranded in case regular MX Users and other Debian-based dists have any interest, If you are a YAD magician and want to improve them hit me with a PM and I can share the WIP scripts

I'm glad you came to this decision on your own...


OFFTOPIC...just like systemD, pulseaudio, etc, pipewire, wayland & co has come to stay, it is just a matter of time. I understand that some people are unrepentatnt in their stand against these developments, the truth remains that these developments make using linux easier for non-command line, non-geeky PC users - GUI users...if you say linux is not meant for such users or linux isn't supposed to be used like that, it's FOSS, everyone finds their way to use and do things and also the right to choose and demand, whoever that is on the receiving end of such right - the developers (some of whom, these developments seems to be their hobby, lifetime work), also have the right to refuse or fulfill such demands but money and development aids will always make more poetterings , it is just time

Hi Glen,
as always, all the effort you put into the making of AVLinux is higly appreciated!
Thank you for making the transition to Pipewire smoother for us end-users.
Unfortunately, I can't help you with YAD scripting.
Keep up the good work and I'm looking toward the new version of the system (can't wait to have an enlightenment-powered desktop as my primary one!)
Cheers
Tiziano

Hi,

where can I find more about your AVlinux?
I'm fighting to setup a htpc based on mx and have some trouble with sound setup, so I'm very interested in your work and your progress.

cheers Django

django013 wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2023 11:43 am Hi,

where can I find more about your AVlinux?
I'm fighting to setup a htpc based on mx and have some trouble with sound setup, so I'm very interested in your work and your progress.

cheers Django

http://www.bandshed.net/avlinux/

Waiting on this realease myself I'm sure it will be interesting. For some reason my Behringer 404HD interface started to dropout on latest AVLinux, pipewire seems to fix that for me. I'm not sure if it's kernel or MXLinux related. I moved on for now I just dont have the patience these days for messing too much with configs. I'm looking forward to get back on AVLinux.

i am just wondering..
i have learnt to use jackqt, doing the right connections, and so on..
will i still be ale to use it with pipewire?

I just want a pair of Decware's Zen amps and a truckload of speakers. Awesome work AVLinux

Hi, sorry to reply late, too many irons in the fire right now..
A new development with the PipeWire tools is a MUCH improved pipewire metadata tool compliments of resident MX-Fluxbox genius @Melber a huge thanks to him for sharing his talents and not laughing out loud at my original script idea.. I'm still testing PipeWire on an MX-21 MXDE-EFL system here and although daily Desktop Audio works just fine I don't really enjoy having to make Custom settings just to use my DAW, also PipeWire sees my Presonus AR-8 USB Mixer as a surround sound device which it isn't at all and it is naming all the ports goofy positional 'LF LR' names which have no sensible correlation to the channels in a DAW, I also seem to have no access to the so-called PipeWire 'Pro-Audio' profile which makes no sense either so I'm not exactly falling in love with PipeWire... So far it has no demonstrable advantages for Audio work over the JACK/Pulse/pajackconnect system we already had...

If Pipewire gets in the way we will have to live with good old audio. Maybe a way to have either/or would fit various situations better ?

When I need YT playing at the same time Reaper is open I ususally don't need full blown audio ressources, but that's just me.
What I'm saying is if we can have pipewire working without it being top notch for audio it could be serviceable without you having to bust your balls too much.

And then switch back to alsa and jack for serious audio. Just an idea.

Boone777 wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:34 pm If Pipewire gets in the way we will have to live with good old audio. Maybe a way to have either/or would fit various situations better ?

When I need YT playing at the same time Reaper is open I ususally don't need full blown audio ressources, but that's just me.
What I'm saying is if we can have pipewire working without it being top notch for audio it could be serviceable without you having to bust your balls too much.

And then switch back to alsa and jack for serious audio. Just an idea.

Hi!

Unfortunately having our cake and eating it too is not trivial... The PulseAudio JACK modules which are what make things pretty smooth sailing with Pulse/JACK get nuked if pipewire-jack is installed so merely installing PipeWire pretty much ruins the known-working Pulse/JACK/pajackconnect that has worked seamlessly for years... I'm not against progress, especially if it is an improvement but in daily use I see no improvements in performance, more complexity and a much more obscure configuration required to make system wide permanent changes.

I use Ardour and Reaper with the ALSA backends which take PulseAudio and PipeWire equally out of the equation so even that is a wash, no benefits to either way..

I'm not a maverick type but I'm really not sold on PipeWire at all, if it gains IRQ threading which it currently is implementing it really would just give it one missing piece that we have had with ALSA/JACK for many years. This is really making for a tough decision and makes it hard for me to move forward..

Ok,

Final word is... sticking with JACK/Pulse/pajackconnect. PipeWire is just fine as a general Desktop Audio system, this isn't some tribal issue... Looking at it from a Distribution viewpoint it requires too much tweaking for Pro Audio work and is not really of enough benefit to throw out a system that has proven itself for many years now, it's as simple as that.. Now that I have that off the plate I can get to the business of updating stuff and hopefully mint some test ISO's soon.

Looking forward to it !

Question for you: With this new OS coming up what would be to best way to go about having Youtube running at the same time than Reaper ?

I managed to have it running before with Qjackctl patching under alsa but ended up with a bunch of xruns and crackling. I'm not too savy with jack just barely gets me going.

Hi, on a default AV Linux setup:

Generally... Fire up Qjackctl and select the Audio device you want to use and that is connected to your speakers/headphones. Regardless of all the performance tweaks in AV Linux every system has a hugely variable threshold for Xruns so if you are going to juggle JACK and the PulseAudio bridging etc. maybe don't drop the frames per period too low right off the bat, keep it a 512 or 1024 at first just to see how everything works, you can always reduce it later. Once Qjackctl is running it will start JACK, the PulseAudio JACK bridging components and also a2jmidid so your MIDI devices are available for both JACK and ALSA..

Now fire up Reaper and in it's Audio Setup utility select the 'JACK' backend, this way Reaper is connected to JACK and by proxy to the Audio device you selected in Qjackctl... If you want to watch a YouTube Video now no problem... Fire up Firefox (or whatever Browser you use) and the Browser will be connected to PulseAudio and routed to JACK via the PulseAudio JACK modules that were automatically started with Qjackctl..

In effect Reaper is connected to your Audio device via JACK and YouTube is connected to your Audio Device via PulseAudio's JACK modules and everything is funneled to the Audio Device and speakers..

Thank you will try this soon, and see how it works this time.