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Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:21 am
by FrSu
First of all a big "thank you" to the developers. Using Linux since 2008 and after trying a lot of other distro's MXLinux became my favorite.
On my older Asus Vivobook ( and other PC's) I use MXLinux 19.4 and it works fine. Is it wise to do an upgrade (clean install) to 21?
Reasons for me could be:
- Security better
- Running faster
- Lower system load
On other features I have no wishes.
What could be your recommendation?
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:37 am
by xaol
mx 19's full support ends in june. i plan to upgrade in the next couple of months for that reason, though according to this thread that doesn't mean your 19.4 install will stop working
viewtopic.php?p=668803#p668803
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:47 am
by Solon
I can't answer your question, but I can tell you the first thing that those who can will request is that you put your "
Quick System Info" into your post.
This gives them not only a full readout of your OS, but also shows them the state of your hardware, and its capabilities.
To do this:
- Click on your Application Menu button and bring up your basic menu of everything.
- Click on the icon of a monitor, with a blue screen containing a white circle with the letter "i" inside. (Or search under: MX Tools for "Quick System Info" (may have to scroll down) and click upon it.)
- At that point a black pop-up window will show all of your computer/OS data.
- It will state at the bottom that it is copied to your clipboard, ready for use at the forum. You can close out the pop-up window since the info is on your clipboard at this point.
- Come back here and either Edit your first post, or start a new one with the box at the bottom.
- Once Editing your first post, or in a new one, just select a good location within the text, and use "Paste" (Cntl "V", or right click and select "Paste"), and all that Information will be entered into a useful "window" within the posting.
And you are done, and your query will be addressed shortly, by the experts!
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:03 am
by baldyeti
xaol wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:37 am
mx 19's full support ends in june. i plan to upgrade in the next couple of months for that reason, though according to this thread that doesn't mean your 19.4 install will stop working
viewtopic.php?p=668803#p668803
As mentioned in the linked thread, debian LTS support for their v10 "buster" upon which MX19 is based is extended until 2024-06, so no rush upgrading.
I skipped MX19/buster myself and kept using MX17/stretch as it worked so well, then upgraded to MX21/bullseye.
A newer release will not magically run faster or use les resources.
When it comes to security, i would advise running the stock debian kernel if it supports your HW well. This is the linux-image-amd64 package, which gets regular security patches and fixes (whilst remaining on 4.19-x for buster)
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 9:08 am
by FrSu
My system now:
Code: Select all
System: Kernel: 4.19.0-6-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 8.3.0
parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-6-amd64
root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet splash
Desktop: Xfce 4.14.2 tk: Gtk 3.24.5 info: xfce4-panel, plank wm: xfwm 4.14.0 vt: 7
dm: LightDM 1.26.0 Distro: MX-19.4_x64 patito feo October 21 2019
base: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
Machine: Type: Laptop System: ASUSTeK product: X202E v: 1.0 serial: <filter>
Mobo: ASUSTeK model: X202E v: 1.0 serial: <filter> BIOS: American Megatrends
v: X202E.206 date: 11/06/2012
Battery: ID-1: BAT0 charge: 20.6 Wh (97.2%) condition: 21.2/38.0 Wh (55.7%) volts: 7.4
min: 7.4 model: ASUSTek X202-51 type: Li-ion serial: N/A status: Unknown
Device-1: hidpp_battery_0 model: Logitech Wireless Mouse M315/M235 serial: <filter>
charge: 55% (should be ignored) rechargeable: yes status: Discharging
CPU: Info: Dual Core model: Intel Core i3-3217U bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Ivy Bridge
family: 6 model-id: 3A (58) stepping: 9 microcode: 21 cache: L2: 3 MiB
flags: avx lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 14367
Speed: 799 MHz min/max: 800/1800 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 799 2: 954 3: 806 4: 805
Vulnerabilities: Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: Split huge pages
Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion; VMX: conditional cache flushes, SMT vulnerable
Type: mds mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable
Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI
Type: spec_store_bypass
mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl and seccomp
Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Full generic retpoline, IBPB: conditional, IBRS_FW,
STIBP: conditional, RSB filling
Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
Graphics: Device-1: Intel 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics vendor: ASUSTeK driver: i915
v: kernel bus-ID: 00:02.0 chip-ID: 8086:0166 class-ID: 0300
Device-2: IMC Networks type: USB driver: uvcvideo bus-ID: 1-1.2:4 chip-ID: 13d3:5188
class-ID: 0e02 serial: <filter>
Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 compositor: xfwm4 v: 4.14.0 driver:
loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1366x768 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 361x203mm (14.2x8.0")
s-diag: 414mm (16.3")
Monitor-1: LVDS-1 res: 1366x768 hz: 60 dpi: 136 size: 256x144mm (10.1x5.7")
diag: 294mm (11.6")
OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Ivybridge Mobile v: 4.2 Mesa 18.3.6 compat-v: 3.0
direct render: Yes
Audio: Device-1: Intel 7 Series/C216 Family High Definition Audio
vendor: ASUSTeK VivoBook X202EV driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
chip-ID: 8086:1e20 class-ID: 0403
Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k4.19.0-6-amd64 running: yes
Sound Server-2: PulseAudio v: 12.2 running: yes
Network: Device-1: Qualcomm Atheros AR9485 Wireless Network Adapter vendor: Lite-On
driver: ath9k v: kernel modules: wl port: f040 bus-ID: 02:00.0 chip-ID: 168c:0032
class-ID: 0280
IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
Device-2: Qualcomm Atheros AR8162 Fast Ethernet vendor: ASUSTeK driver: alx v: kernel
port: e000 bus-ID: 03:00.0 chip-ID: 1969:1090 class-ID: 0200
IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter>
Bluetooth: Device-1: Lite-On Atheros Bluetooth type: USB driver: btusb v: 0.8 bus-ID: 1-1.1:22
chip-ID: 04ca:3005 class-ID: e001 serial: <filter>
Report: hciconfig ID: hci0 rfk-id: 9 state: up address: <filter> bt-v: 2.1 lmp-v: 4.0
sub-v: 1 hci-v: 4.0 rev: 102
Info: acl-mtu: 1022:8 sco-mtu: 183:5 link-policy: rswitch hold sniff
link-mode: slave accept service-classes: rendering, capturing, object transfer
Drives: Local Storage: total: 465.76 GiB used: 16.22 GiB (3.5%)
SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Seagate model: ST500LT012-9WS142 size: 465.76 GiB
block-size: physical: 4096 B logical: 512 B speed: 3.0 Gb/s type: HDD rpm: 5400
serial: <filter> rev: SDM1 scheme: MBR
Partition: ID-1: / raw-size: 97.66 GiB size: 95.62 GiB (97.92%) used: 16.22 GiB (17.0%) fs: ext4
dev: /dev/sda1 maj-min: 8:1
Swap: Alert: No swap data was found.
Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 60.0 C mobo: N/A
Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 3300
Repos: Packages: note: see --pkg apt: 2006 lib: 1009 flatpak: 0
No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
2: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list
1: deb http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo/ buster main non-free
No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list
Info: Processes: 221 Uptime: 19h 46m wakeups: 9 Memory: 3.74 GiB used: 1.53 GiB (40.8%)
Init: SysVinit v: 2.93 runlevel: 5 default: 5 tool: systemctl Compilers: gcc: 8.3.0
alt: 8 Shell: quick-system-in default: Bash v: 5.0.3 running-in: quick-system-in
inxi: 3.3.06
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:14 am
by j2mcgreg
I've got an Acer Aspire of that era and MX 21 runs like a champ. If the Seagate ST500LT012-9WS142 is the laptop's original HDD, I think that you should access the bios and determine it's SMART status there. Nine years of age is ancient for a hard drive and if the SMART utility says anything but 'good', I advise you to replace it and then install MX 21. If the HDD is OK, go ahead and install MX 21
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:26 am
by baldyeti
Again: you do not have to upgrade unless you want to, there is no huge benefit when MX19/buster is supported for another 2+ years. But in buster the kernel is
currently at 4.19.0-19,
not 4.19.0-6. Security-wise, it would a good idea to stick to the default.
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:49 am
by MadMax
I'm in a similar situation with 19.4 on my main system, but I'm in no rush to update and it runs like a champ. As stated, Debian LTS will provide security updates until 2024. The MX team will also provide updates for critical software like the browser at least until Debian LTS ends.
If you are ok with your system and have no need for newer versions of certain software (for features) or a newer kernel (e.g. due to a hardware upgrade, which you won't do on a laptop), there's no imminent need to upgrade.
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:20 pm
by uncle mark
I'm firmly in the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" crowd. There really isn't any reason I can think of that would push me to moving from my current MX19KDE install to v21. But that's just me. It certainly wouldn't do any harm.
You've got a dual core with 4G RAM and a slow spinner drive. Without upgrading your hardware, no performance related improvements could be expected from any software/OS updating. And even with bumped RAM and an SSD, that processor is going to be a bottleneck. I'd suggest you start planning on getting new(er) hardware and then go with the most recent MX on that kit.
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:15 am
by FrSu
Thx everyone for the feedback. I will keep my current 19.4 as it works just fine on my Asus Vivobook. Very happy with it. Thx again!
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:36 am
by Solon
FrSu wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:15 am
Thx everyone for the feedback. I will keep my current 19.4 as it works just fine on my Asus Vivobook. Very happy with it. Thx again!
Generally a good idea,
however, have you read and considered baldyeti's post #7 above? Let me repeat it here for you:
baldyeti wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:26 am
Again: you do not have to upgrade unless you want to, there is no huge benefit when MX19/buster is supported for another 2+ years. But in buster the kernel is
currently at 4.19.0-19,
not 4.19.0-6. Security-wise, it would a good idea to stick to the default.
While you are running MX Linux 19.4, the current (prior) version, you are operating on an old Kernel, to wit: 4.19.0-6!! What
baldyeti is saying is that you should upgrade your Kernel to AT LEAST version: 4.19.0-19. If I read his post correctly, he is saying that while the older Kernel still runs your machine,
it is not secure unless it gets to version -19.
I too am staying with MX 19.4 for a few more months, but I am running the latest Kernel: 5.10 on my i5 laptop, and the
ONLY previous Kernel available to me (if I want to backtrack) is Kernel: 5.8.14. In other words, I can't go back to Kernel: 4.X in the standard installer, even if I wanted to!
I suggest that you follow
baldyeti's recommendation and at a minimum upgrade your Kernel to version: 4.19.0-19. However, since you are running MX 19.4 successfully, you should really take the plunge and bring your Kernel right up to version: 5.10.
Go to the MX Package Installer, and look under the heading "Kernel". Click on it and you will see your options. (I have upgraded twice, and each time it went flawlessly.) Remember that MX 19.4 is complete, tried and tested for years now, and all the 'bugs' have been ironed-out. You really have nothing to fear by 'modernizing' your Kernel, and you will gain a boost in security and compatibility with Repo packages too.
When you upgrade your Kernel, you don't have to go straight to 5.10, you can do this in stages and check it out at each stage. With an older machine, if a problem occurs it is rarely in the OS, however, sometimes the latest Kernels will not work as well with 'call' routines recognizing older hardware. So I would advance up through the Kernels, and let each one run for a bit to make sure everything is solid, before advancing to the next Kernel in line.
The previous kernel(s) are always available on your machine (until you uninstall them), and you can choose to boot-up in an earlier version; Go into "Advanced Options" offered in the startup Grub menu, if there is a problem.
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:39 pm
by FrSu
Okay. Why is the kernel not updated when I update the system when requested? I always follow the update manager.
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:07 pm
by figueroa
I'm still supporting some 18.3 at the enterprise level, along with 19.4. Both are kept up-to-date and the users are happy. I expect I will sundown the 18.3 desktops sometime during this summer. There have been no compelling reasons to chase the "shiny new thing" in this regard. The 18.3 desktops are following kernel series 4.19 and the 19.4 versions are following the kernel series 5.10. My thanks to MX developer and maintainer team for continuing to provide up-to-date application software these systems.
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:26 pm
by baldyeti
FrSu wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:39 pm
Okay. Why is the kernel not updated when I update the system when requested? I always follow the update manager.
It was in my post: you need the linux-image-amd64 generic package, which gets updated regularly while specific (or liquorix or AHS etc...) versions never get automatic updates. I do not remember if the original MX ISO included that generic package or only the specific -6 variant. I _think_ if you do not want to install from the command line that this should correspond in the first/main tab of the MXPI to the "Kernels / Debian 64 bits (default debian kernel)" entry (at least that is what it looks like to me under MX21)
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:19 pm
by Stuart_M
FrSu wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:39 pm
... Why is the kernel not updated when I update the system when requested? ...
I agree 100% with figueroa.
According your your QSI (Post #5) you have the first official release of MX-19 dated 21 October 2019 and that first release contains kernel 4.19.0-6 (subsequent MX-19 point releases contain later kernels).
The reason the 4.19.0-6 kernel was not automatically updated is because that kernel does not automatically update. The only way to update that kernel is manually. Automatic kernel updating began with a later kernel which I think was 4.19.0-10 or maybe -12. Actually, it was somewhat common in 2020 and 2021 to see a comment in the forums requesting a user to update their 4.19.0-6 kernel.
The easiest way to update to 4.19.0-19 is with MXPI > Popular Applications tab > Kernel category as shown in the below image. (Note that it is greyed out in this image because that is installed in my 19.4 installation):
MXPI_Popular_Applications_tab_Kernels.png
By the way, I have never had a problem with MX-19 - ever. MX-21 is better in a couple small things, but it is also worse in some other very small things, in my opinion. But I cannot find any reason to abandon MX-19. Maybe I'll switch when MX-25 comes out a few months after MX-19.4 reaches its End of Live (EOL)
https://mxlinux.org/previous-releases ...maybe.
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:26 pm
by MXRobo
FrSu wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:39 pm
Okay. Why is the kernel not updated when I update the system when requested? I always follow the update manager.
You said you’ve been using linux since 2008 but you didn’t say how long you’ve been using MX; when did you install MX19, or what version was your MX19 install?
Not sure which version, but somewhere around MX19.2/3 – if you installed MX before that the 4.19 kernel did not automatically update within the 4.19 series. If you installed after that version, or later it automatically updated the kernel.
Looks like you’re stuck at kernel: 4.19.0-6-amd64…, like I was.
Per post #2 from Stevo in the link below:
Yes, those are the Debian 4.19 LTS kernel metapackages you plan to install. They'll update your kernels and everything else automatically, which is the way the latest MX 19 releases work with those preinstalled. Your system must have reached 19.4 through in-place updates instead of a fresh install to not have them--but I had the notion that MXPI was installing those 4.19 metapackages if you wanted the 4.19 kernel--this needs some research.
viewtopic.php?p=643386#p643386
Open the link inside post #1 (my post) for a reference.
See this post (within the linked post) for instructions on how to install linux images and headers.
viewtopic.php?p=643120#p643120
I’m not one to rely on re. linux, but open MXPI>Popular Applications>Kernels; if 4.19 is
(EDIT NOT) greyed-out, just reinstall, but I don’t think it will be.
If it’s not greyed-out, you should have newer kernel packages for the 4.19.0-19, or if your repo is a little behind, 4.19.0-18.
Certainly, you do want, and should have 4.19.0-19 installed if using the 4.19 kernel. (or the 5.10 LTS kernel, following.)
That's why baldyeti was suggesting it.
I infer that this non-update was a unique situation and that all LTS kernels normally automatically update.
I ran some buntu distros for a while with dead simple kernel updaters, but without the many advantages of MX, tools, etc., AHS, Liquorix, plus newer kernels without being bleeding edge.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Aside: Re. AHS kernels, most AHS kernels must be checked periodically for updates. Supposedly they do not indicate that there are updates but I've had one recently indicate by not being greyed-out; to be sure to check for updates, I try to reinstall these, if nothing to download, no update. If incorrect, please correct.
Since I don't really know MX's kernels (or any kernels), I keep a close eye on them during updates.
_____________________________________________________________________________
In MXPI, on kernels headers, images, etc.: Highlight>R-Click-more info>Show Details.
Others will be able to tell you what to install better than me, but I’d install:
linux-headers-4.19.0-19-amd64
which should install: linux-image-4.19.0-19-common.
Either one of the following, only one:
linux-image-4.19.0-19-amd64-unsigned (Think this one, as signed is for secure-boot enablement, likely not needed/desired)
linux-image-4.19.0-19-amd64
That should do it - I think.
Another option, simply: MXPI>Popular Applications>Kernels
Install Debian 5.10 64 bit (latest)
It’s an LTS kernel also, which will get automatic updates, this should be fine.
Good luck.
To reply to you original post, I have both 19 & 21 installed on different LTs.
I still like MX19 if I don’t want newer apps. In the future, I may wait until the dot release, or 22.1 or 23.1 are released to install, or install 22/23 if I want newer apps.
They're both nice, maybe wait until MX21.1 is released and install it, it has a few things that are a little different that I like better than MX19, but I could say that about MX19 too.
HTH
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:50 pm
by FrSu
@MXRobo: THX for your extensive information. I guess my system is from October 2019 as stated in the overview: Distro: MX-19.4_x64 patito feo October 21 2019
I have used in the past Ubuntu, Mint, Elementary, Zorin, PClinuxOS and some other. The Debian from MXlinux is a little bit different for me. Playing with kernels is a dangerous activity when you do not know what you do.
I am surprised that the kernel in my (older) MX is not updated automatically.
So the answer to my topic question is "YES". Because my system has an older kernel which does not automatically update and 21 does. Right?
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:05 pm
by pianokeyjoe
It is only wise to upgrade if the features and benefits of MX21 are of specific need and err, benefit, to you. If you are on MX19.4 like me and you have specific features,themes,configs,apps,desktops,etc, that are only available for BUSTER and not yet or at all for Bulls Eye, then upgrading is NOT for YOU. For instance. I have done alot of work with snapshot images of MX 19.3 for use in equipment as Read only OS images for embedding and there are themes for GTK and XFWM and ICONS that are NOT available or usable anymore in MX21, I am compelled to stay with MX19.3/4. If the only thing you want is to be able to use the latest kernels or other apps that keep you bleeding edge, then upgrading to MX21 makes sense if you do not mind some apps and themes breaking like happened when upgrading from MX18.3 to MX19 with GTK2. As such, it is really a case by case, person by person decision. I have been able to upgrade my kernels on my MX19.4 installs without issue BUT.. I am also removing alot of apps, and files I do not need for that specific install and hardware, which streamlines the MX install and allows me to snapshot a live image using only what I want for my specific wants and needs for the specific hardware I have. That said. You can upgrade and it IS wise, if what you want or need to do with MX LINUX, requires features or apps or both that can only be offered in the new MX21/Bulleye release. Otherwise, stay put with MX19.4
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:49 pm
by baldyeti
FrSu wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:50 pm
So the answer to my topic question is "YES". Because my system has an older kernel which does not automatically update and 21 does. Right?
Wrong. Install the generic / metapackage kernel in MX19 and your 4.19 kernel will get regular updates.
Code: Select all
$ sudo apt-get install linux-image-amd64
I do not have all MX versions, but apparently this package was not included in the original MX19/XFCE but is present in my copy of MX21/KDE. Naturally it can be added afterwards as shown above.
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:54 pm
by Stuart_M
FrSu wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:50 pm
... the answer to my topic question is "YES". Because my system has an older kernel which does not automatically update and 21 does. Right?
That is not correct if all that is needed or wanted is to update the old kernel to get a newer kernel that does not have security concerns and that will automatically update when the MX Updater is run. For MX-19 kernel 4.19.0-19 is perfectly fine. You do not need MX-21 for that. And if you want a newer kernel than 4.19.0-19 in MX-19 you can also do that, but why would you since everything is running fine?
I get the sense that you have not read my Post #15 where I explained the when, hows and whys...
FrSu wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:50 pm
... Playing with kernels is a dangerous activity when you do not know what you do.
I hope that you will now see how easy and safe it is to update your kernel. Select the desired kernel as shown in the outlined red rectangle in the Post #15 image and then click on the "Install" button. After the new kernel is installed the old kernel is still running. You will have to reboot to load and run the kernel that was just installed. Then you're done.
To see what kernel is being used run the following command in a terminal:
Edit: Changed the first paragraph text from "correct" to "not correct".
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:21 pm
by MXRobo
FrSu wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:50 pm
@MXRobo: THX for your extensive information. I guess my system is from October 2019 as stated in the overview: Distro: MX-19.4_x64 patito feo October 21 2019
So the answer to my topic question is "YES". Because my system has an older kernel which does not automatically update and 21 does. Right?
Basically ninja’d by Stuart_M
@Stuart_M sorry, I did not read your post.
You're welcome.
Absolutely NOT, that is NOT my answer – but I’ll get to that in a minute.
RE: Distro: MX-19.4_x64 patito feo October 21 2019
I’m not sure what that means, first, I didn’t catch that, but I think I installed mine from 19.1 (doubtfully 19.2) and it reads February 15 2020 which isn’t that relatively close to what your date is. It may very well mean that.
________________________
Kernels 4.19 and 5.10 are (at least were, and I believe that are still) LTS (long term release) kernels which almost always receive automatic updates, but this was a rare unique situation where they did not.
Reread Stevo’s reply:
Your system must have reached 19.4 through in-place updates instead of a fresh install to not have them--but I had the notion that MXPI was installing those 4.19 metapackages if you wanted the 4.19 kernel--this needs some research.
You and I originally installed a point release prior to the [“pivotal release” hypothetically say 19.2] , and we made “in-place” updates.
Say we originally installed MX19.0 , and then made “in-place” updates, from 19.0 to 19.1 to 19.2 to 19.3 to 19.4.
All of the in-place updates worked fine
except for the 4.19 kernel, it remained stuck at 4.19
.0-6-amd64
(Stuck @ 0-6)
Had we performed a fresh install of 19.3 (maybe 19.2, depending on what version started automatically updating again), then all of the in-place updates (to 19.4), including the kernels would have automatically updated as they should.
---------------------
The above may be incorrect as it could’ve depended on the kernel version (4.19.0-6-amd64, 0-6, 0-9, 0-12, etc.) as opposed to the MX point release, e.g. 19.2 or 19.3. - but I don’t think it really matters as the concept is similar.
--------------------
I, and many others are currenlty running MX19.4 fine, but you have a rare situation.
So, I’d suggest to try these three (3): (I made a typo or whatever in the previous reply)
1 - Open MX Package Installer (MXPI)>Popular Applications>Kernels
If 4.19 is NOT greyed-out (indicating that it is installed) just install (or reinstall), but I don’t think it will be.
Reboot, check kernel version in terminal with either uname -r or uname -a
it should be 4.19.0-19, at least 4.19.0-18.
2 - If it IS greyed-out: MXPI>Stable (or Synaptic P.M. - I believe) and install:
linux-image-4.19.0-19-amd64-unsigned
linux-headers-4.19.0-19-amd64
which should install:
linux-image-4.19.0-19-common (Highlighted package>R-Click>more info – read it, it will tell if it will be installed.)
3 – This one can be done after doing one of the two above, I suggest the above in order to have an up to date 4.19 kernel to use if you have problems with the 5.10 kernel.
(If you system is fine, you don’t need the 5.10 kernel, but it probably work as good as the 4.19 kernel)
So option 3 is: MXPI>Popular Applications>Kernels and Install Debian 5.10 64 bit (latest)
It’s an LTS kernel also, which will get automatic updates, this should be fine.
You need the updates for security and bug fixes, you're way behind - I was behind in July of 2021!
Get in MXPI and just do it.
One last thought, I’d definitely update the 4.19 kernel for the obvious, to be up to date, but also, at the worst, you screw something up in 4.19, simply:
MXPI>Popular Applications>Kernels and Install Debian 5.10 64 bit (latest)
It will probably work fine.
HTH
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:23 pm
by FrSu
Okay. I did the kernel update via MxPI. With uname -r I got: 4.19.0-19-amd64
I restarted without issues. So it should be okay now. From now on the kernel is updated automatically?
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:36 pm
by Stuart_M
Yes, the new kernel (4.19.0-19) will now be automatically updated when you run MX Updater and MX-19 is still supported (until June 2024). So now you have a couple more years of joy to go. More if you don't mind manually updating after that...
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:47 pm
by baldyeti
Yay ! From now on it should be smooth sailing until mid-2024, at which point you can decide to install MX23 !
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:00 pm
by MXRobo
@Stuart_M
I was under the impression that the kernel did update up to a particular kernel version (or possibly MX point release version) and then stopped auto-updating at one particular "pivotal" kernel version (possibly more than one) and then continued updating once past that pivotal kernel version although I don't really know what the kernel was doing before 4.19.0-17 or really before 4.19.0-06.
Mine has been updating since July 2021, 4.19.0-17, once I got past, or installed the newer kernels.
The 4.19 kernel does update automatically, does it not?
With the exception of when it did not of course.
And, does reinstalling while it is greyed-out in “MXPI>Popular” update the kernel?
I was not aware of that, and no one suggested that I update that way when I fell behind.
That would be a little easier, not much harder, but I installed the linux image and header files.
Sorry, I didn’t read your post before I posted, so combined with thinking that no one posted regarding the non-updating kernel, and unaware of the ability to update from MXPI>Popular (as I questioned above), I thought he had to install them manually or individually.
So, I thought he had a situation that was possibly unrecognized.
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:24 pm
by Stuart_M
Just to clarify...
MXRobo wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:00 pm
... I was under the impression that the kernel did update up to a particular kernel version (or possibly MX point release version) and then stopped auto-updating at one particular "pivotal" kernel version (possibly more than one) and then continued updating once past that pivotal kernel version although I don't really know what the kernel was doing before 4.19.0-17 or really before 4.19.0-06.
My Post #15 gave a brief explanation of this. Kernel 4.19.0-6 will not automatically update and that kernel version has always been that way. The reason is because of that kernel version and not MX-19, 19.1, 19.2, etc. When 4.19.0-6 was (manually) updated to I think 4.19.0-10 or -12 (I don't remember) in early-mid 2020(?) then that updated kernel began to automatically update with MX Updater.
I used the MX-19 beta and then made a new installation with the official MX-19 release that used the 4.19.0-6 kernel when it came out 21 October 2019 so I've been with MX-19 from the start of its beta and I am very familiar with the forum posts about this issue in 2020 and 2021.
MXRobo wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:00 pm
... The 4.19 kernel does update automatically, does it not?
With the exception of when it did not of course. ...
That's not a good premise because "4.19" includes 4.19.0-6, 4.19.0-12, 4.19.0-19 and so forth. It is not the kernel series that matters, it is the kernel VERSION that does. Which version are you specifically asking about? The question is rhetorical since it has already been answered above...
As stated above, the version that started automatically updating was 4.19.0-12 or somewhere around that version, but 4.19.0-6 definitely does NOT automatically update.
MXRobo wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:00 pm
And, does reinstalling while it is greyed-out in “MXPI>Popular” update the kernel?
No. An entry in MXPI that is greyed out simply indicates a package that is already installed.
I presume that question is from my Post #15 image where I showed where the kernel was located to help the original poster see exactly where he needs to go in order to install it and, as I stated in that post, that it is greyed out because it "is installed in my 19.4 installation".
MXRobo wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:00 pm
Sorry, I didn’t read your post before I posted ...
I believe this is in regards to my Post #20 when I said "I get the sense that you have not read my Post #15 where I explained the when, hows and whys...". That question was directed to the original poster of this thread (user FrSu) where I had quoted him above that line. It had/has nothing to do with MXRobo and I am confused why you think it would (no need to answer).
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:48 pm
by MXRobo
@Stuart_M
A lot of the confusion was due to semantics as I was incorrectly using kernel when I should have said a particular “kernel version” as opposed to major, minor, and in particular patch - or perhaps a kernel series.
Also, I was unaware that kernels within a series did not automatically update - that’s why I inquired – for knowledge.
RE:
My Post #15 gave a brief explanation of this. Kernel 4.19.0-6 will not automatically update and that kernel version has always been that way. The reason is because of that kernel version and not MX-19, 19.1, 19.2, etc. When 4.19.0-6 was (manually) updated to I think 4.19.0-10 or -12 (I don't remember) in early-mid 2020(?) then that updated kernel began to automatically update with MX Updater.
Isn’t it actually, that “kernel patch” has always been that way, as opposed to “kernel version”?
And ignoring the semantics, - not that they aren’t essential - is essentially what I said.
RE:
I used the MX-19 beta and then made a new installation with the official MX-19 release that used the 4.19.0-6 kernel when it came out 21 October 2019 so I've been with MX-19 from the start of its beta and I am very familiar with the forum posts about this issue in 2020 and 2021.
I assumed so, that’s why I inquired.
RE:
That's not a good premise because "4.19" includes 4.19.0-6, 4.19.0-12, 4.19.0-19 and so forth. It is not the kernel series that matters, it is the kernel VERSION that does. Which version are you specifically asking about? The question is rhetorical since it has already been answered above…
Rhetorical is more intent dependent than inference and therefore time/context dependent, and while it may have been somewhat rhetorical to elicit a response it wasn’t redundant when asked prior to you answering it - due my botching of the kernel terminology - even if it was surmise dependent it
RE:
I presume that question is from my Post #15 image where I showed where the kernel was located to help the original poster see exactly where he needs to go in order to install it and, as I stated in that post, that it is greyed out because it "is installed in my 19.4 installation".
Yes you did say that it was greyed out because it’s installed (which I assumed everyone assumed), but you state:
The easiest way to update to 4.19.0-19 is with MXPI > Popular Applications tab > Kernel category as shown in the below image. (Note that it is greyed out in this image because that is installed in my 19.4 installation):
MXPI_Popular_Applications_tab_Kernels.png
but they appear to be explicit instructions as to how to update; that’s what I inferred and why I inquired.
I wasn’t trying to give anyone the third degree, I was/am simply trying to educate myself because I know I don’t know crap about linux – taken as face value.
RE:
It had/has nothing to do with MXRobo and I am confused why you think it would (no need to answer).
To be considerate - it was a conciliatory attempt to explain what were, and what I thought were errors on my part, in deference to your linux knowledge; misconstruing patches for versions or incorrectly advising him to to install manually as opposed to using MXPI>Popular Apps>Kernels, and assuming that others may have not told him that 4.19.0-6 would not automatically update.
No need to answer.
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:28 am
by JanK
Will MX19 LTS be updating Firefox and Chrome?
Re: Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:45 am
by Eadwine Rose
@JanK Please don't ask the same question tacked on to multiple threads, it is bad form.
If you want an answer that badly ask it in its own thread.