Should I switch to MX?

[JayM]

MX is not rolling.

For some reason I keep misreading this as "MX is not rotting."

[BitJam]

@JayM, Both are true.

Does anyone here have suggestions for making the re-install less painful for people like Silent Observer who are inclined to use a rolling release?

Personally, I use Gentoo which is truly a rolling distro but I will re-install every 3 - 5 years anyway, often when I'm updating hardware, in order to get rid of cruft and clutter. Gentoo has a "world file" which records everything installed on the system so getting the distro back to where it was is pretty easy just by copying that one file. For me the tricky part is all the custom software I add.

[asqwerth]

@JayM, Both are true.

Does anyone here have suggestions for making the re-install less painful for people like Silent Observer who are inclined to use a rolling release?

Personally, I use Gentoo which is truly a rolling distro but I will re-install every 3 - 5 years anyway, often when I'm updating hardware, in order to get rid of cruft and clutter. Gentoo has a "world file" which records everything installed on the system so getting the distro back to where it was is pretty easy just by copying that one file. For me the tricky part is all the custom software I add.

Aptik is a possible easier way to reinstall back everything installed. It's in our repos.
https://github.com/teejee2008/aptik

But I always just found it easier to keep my own text file of installed packages and applications (which do not come preinstalled with MX). This is saved in a separate data partition. After fresh install of MX, I just do a

Code: Select all

sudo apt install [list of all apps and packages separated by a space between each item]

and it's all done.

That text file of mine also has other to-do tasks, e.g.

before install:
backup xfce panel config (MX Tweak) and browser bookmarks first,
note the list of installed flatpaks/appimages
copy any icon themes/gtk themes that are in root (which would get wiped in a fresh install) into /home or data partition,


post install:
- restore xfce panel config with MX Tweak
- reinstall printer drivers
- restore that list of apps and packages (as above)
- check if the apps that were in flatpak/appimage versions now have new-enough versions in the repo. If so, install the repo version instead of flatpak/appimage, otherwise install the flatpaks, reuse appimage
- restore backedup icon themes

[I don't often restore the backedup gtk themes because a newer gtk3+ will generally break older themes anyway, but having the list means I can check the various customisation sites at my leisure to see if newer versions exist]


Doing such a fresh install with /home preserved every 2-3 years is not a huge difficulty.

I do have various rolling distros in my multiboot PC as well. I haven't reinstalled any since 2015 when I got my current PC. I don't expect to change hardware for another few years.

THe big migration thing around the horizon for me next is that Sabayon has merged with Funtoo to form MocaccinoOS (now in early testing stages) and when it goes final, I'll be checking out how well their migration instructions work.

Will be curious to see how well their new package mgt system works. Sabayon used Entropy/Equo with binary packages, which enabled me to avoid the whole Gentoo portage, emerge and compiling thing (I'm not knowledgeable enough for that!), but I think that may be gone under the new OS.

[JayM]

There were some posts about moving from MX-18.3 to MX-19 a while back that suggested using aptic-gtk so somewhat automate the (re)installation of software packages on the new system, but personally I find it easier to just look through my installed packages in MX Package Installer and write them down, then after installing the newer version just sit down and install them again. It doesn't take that long, maybe an hour or two tops for the entire task including noting the packages, performing the installation of the OS, then installing apps and setting up my desktop the way I want it, and it's only once every two or three years that this needs to be done. Heck, many people buy new computers more often than that (and when I get a new system I like to start out with a fresh, clean installation rather than using a personal snapshot: a new computer deserves a new OS installation, I think. Like you said, that helps to eliminate cruft from being carried over to the new machine.)

Also, I do encrypted installations so I can't preserve /home, but it's not that big of a deal to restore my backed-up data to the new installation. I should be regularly backing everything up anyway. That's what external hard drives and/or "the cloud" are for.

[junoluna]

the obvious answer is 'YES' .... you should switch .... everybody should

the higher ups are proper self-effacing here ... remarkable reluctance to blow their own trumpet

i try doing it for them ... converted 3 friends (2 from windows and one from apple) in the past year and they couldn't be happier ........

[JayM]

If the OP does switch from Ubuntu to MX he'll have to learn to do things the MX Way such as no PPAs, use MX Package Installer instead, and if the app he wants isn't available in any of the repos including as a flatpak verion (or as an appimage), ask for it to be packaged. m_pav explains why Ubuntu repos and PPAs aren't compatible with Debian Stable distros here. I've seen too many people coming to MX from Ubuntu who've hosed their systems by adding Ubuntu PPAs or even Ubuntu repos and have had to reinstall MX.

[asqwerth]

Okay, let's check that: what's the current repo version of GIMP? I've been running it from a Snap for a good while, because the version in the repos compatible with Ubuntu 16.04 was ancient. I was just playing with the KDE version of MX Live, and it's gotten back most of what I recall liking about the Plasma desktop .....

Since you have the live USB of MXKDE, open up MXPI and explore the various tabs as I suggested in my earlier post. Enter "gimp" into the search field.

STable repo tab: GIMP = 2.10.12

MX Test Repo tab: 2.10.22. Test Repo is where our Packaging Team builds newer versions of applications than what can be found in Debian Stable Repo (or apps not found in Debian at all). PAckages remain in Test Repo and are not moved into Stable until users give enough feedback that it's working well in their system.

Debian backports tab: no newer GIMP

Flatpak tab: as in Test Repo

I checked Snapcraft: as above

Why not check out what's available in MXPI for other apps that you use ?

[cheapybob]

This might help. My situations have tended to be pretty similar, where I would run an OS, but because I would change things in it, it would take weeks to migrate all my changes to a new version, much less put the same changes on a different OS.

So now, every time I look for a solution to a problem, the answer is "install Ubuntu 20.04 and see if that fixes it." Problem is, I'm really, REALLY tired of installing fresh, and to a large extent learning a new system, ever two to five years (and yes, I'd have had the same problem with Windows -- since I jumped on Linux, there have been four versions of Windows with three significant changes in interface).

What I'm looking for is a system in which uprades are a more gradual process. "Rolling" seems like what I want -- but the only rolling systems in Debian are bleeding-edge, based on Testing or Unstable repos, and this isn't a hobby system; it's my production machine (and my laptop, which will get the same OS as the desktop, doesn't get used a huge number of hours in a year).

I was just referred here from the Antix forums, where I'd gone because I read that Antix was rolling-Stable (it's not, and never has been; instead, it had, more than a decade ago, an upgrade script that probably never worked any better than Ubuntu's -- which starts, as its very first operation, by disabling all third-part repos and ppas). The suggestion was that I ask here about reducing the pain of version upgrades.

All I really want is to not have to spend a weekend fighting with my computer unless I'm making a major hardware rebuild (and my hardware is mostly fine -- video card is a little out of date, but I'm not a heavy gamer). Should I switch to MX?

So it took about 4 hours to take my modified system using 2 "packagecomp" scripts combined with aptik-gtk and re-port it from one version of antiX to another last week in preparation for bullseye. I use the same OS's on multiple machines.

I've also use it to port other Debian based OS's, but it knows nothing about PPA's and such, and have never tried it migrating with or from/to any Ubuntu derivatives, but I would guess it would work. It's like a Volkswagen "automatic stick-shift", LOL. It does the hard tedious stuff, but I still need to decide what top level packages I want to have or remove.

Some of the OS's ported with it so far are here:
https://www.antixforum.com/forums/searc ... ch-request

1. I keep my OS stuff in root. I don't change the base OS. I put my tweaks in $HOME/bin.
2. I keep my configurations and stuff I'm playing with off $HOME
3. I keep most major data in other Data partitions.

If you stray from that migrating gets tricky and time consuming.

The background is on this thread
https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic ... p-scripts/

The code and an last week's migration as an example are attached.

PS: I agree with JayM that you want to avoid running externally created/controlled programs and instead try to use or get packaged anything you really need. I've used this tool mostly with simpler systems like antiX and DWMx and other apt based Debian like systems, but it will only work well if you are living within its design concept.

Here is the readme:

Procedure to save and restore to a different machine

1. save all non /home/yourself changes in a directory structure ~/changes-hostname-yymmdd with each file in the relative folder underneath where it was added or change with all the attributes it had as well. if the file is literally machine dependent, make a 2nd copy of the file suffixed by the hostname so you don’t forget
2. don’t load things that are difficult to reload, at minimum, if no .deb, forget it if possible
3. limit what you put in /home. put downloaded data file stuff somewhere else and back it up/restore it separately
4. run the packagecomp #1 modified pc script (pkgs1.mod.sh) on the modified machine being saved to make a list of what was installed
5. get the aptik .debs and install them to do the saves. save to a place outside of your own /home because you want it to backup your /home. I just save users, groups, cron and /home with it. I take the folder and copy it to the live-usb folder on a freshly made and tested antiX flashdrive, as well as the aptik .deb files and packagecomp folder
6. load the new machine, connect to the net, install antiX saving live changes. make sure you have all the live usb stuff copied off the flashdrive to somewhere outside of your /home, and then you can reboot into the stock antiX system and make sure its ok before loading all your changes.
7. run the packagecomp #2 standard pc script (pkgs2.std.sh) on the freshly installed machine to find out what packages need to be added. When the editor comes up, remove things you don’t need. The script will make a list for you of what you decided to skip, just in case.
8. run the apt-get update and apt-get install with command line provided, you can go back and redo #7 as many times as you like, each time it comes up with a list of what is still missing
9. use apt to install the aptik .debs
10. run aptik-gtk from the run box as root
11. restore only the things saved above
12. overlay the changes from your ~/changes-hostname-yymmdd which got restored by aptik
13. update-grub
14. reboot, and hopefully welcome to a totally familiar system with everything just as you left it, but running on a shiny new system (LOL, or old clunker for the kids)

It took about 3 hours to do, not bad for a modified system.

[NickStone]

After reading this thread I would like to suggest the OP try PCLinuxOS. It's a rolling release distro but not like Arch (or any Arch based distros). All packages (apps) are in the RPM format but they've amended the Debian APT package manager (and Synaptic) to work with RPM's. It comes with desktops (KDE; Mate and XFCE) with a few more community spins with different desktops / WM's.

Hope this helps.

[andyprough]

After reading this thread I would like to suggest the OP try PCLinuxOS. It's a rolling release distro but not like Arch (or any Arch based distros). All packages (apps) are in the RPM format but they've amended the Debian APT package manager (and Synaptic) to work with RPM's. It comes with desktops (KDE; Mate and XFCE) with a few more community spins with different desktops / WM's.

Hope this helps.

The OP posted the same question on the antiX forum and I also recommended they try PCLinuxOS. As you say, it's advertised as rolling yet stable, and uses the apt package manager. I haven't tried it myself but it seems to check all of the OP's boxes.