MX-19.2 KDE RC 1 Feedback Thread

[SwampRabbit]

There are regularly issues on the forums which are only because recommends are not installed.

That’s a stretch of a comment I think.

One minute someone is complaining something is bloated, the next it’s that stuff isn’t installed. The flip flopping, it gets old fast.

Let’s stick to suggesting dependencies that have been properly identified as needed to give the the majority of users of the KDE version what they need OOTB... leave the rest off the table.

As far as changes to what’s installed that’s up to Adrian and dolphin_oracle.

[m_pav]

I suggest MX-KDE RC2 tests whether recommends can be default installed.

I think you might be missing an important point. MX uses Debian, so the rules set out in the Debian repos are inherently adopted as-is into our builds. This is not a Debian vs MX issue, this is a Debian default condition. If it's done that way through Debian, then it will go the same with MX, it's as simple as that. Sometimes, we intervene where a flaw is discovered or awhen a work-around is needed, but we do not change the Debian defaults because we are not Debian, we are Debian compatible.

Of the 58,000+ packages available in the Debian repos, which ones would you like us to test? All of them? We provide public Beta releases and Release Candidate updates where people like you are invited to test not only the form and function of the build as a whole, but also how your own preferred packages operate with this build and report back on them in a respectful and helpful manner.

We only ask for RESPECTFUL dialogues from those who wish to participate in testing these pre-release builds, that they show a willingness to participate in the proper TESTING and reporting on our our pre-release builds. If you're not willing to do that, then testing is simply not for you, you are in the wrong place and in the wrong mindset.

[sunrat]

@m_pav - Not sure why you say I'm being disrespectful. I make a suggestion which I believe may improve MX and what better time for this version when it is still in testing phase.
You're mistaken about recommends defaults by the way. I just did a test install of Kmail on Buster/KDE and it pulls in accountwizard. MX has a file /etc/apt/apt.conf which alters the Debian default.

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// Recommends are as of now still abused in many packages
APT::Install-Recommends "0";
APT::Install-Suggests "0";

Debian did have that as default a long time ago as packagers were abusing it. It's much more controlled now.

[dolphin_oracle]

@m_pav - Not sure why you say I'm being disrespectful. I make a suggestion which I believe may improve MX and what better time for this version when it is still in testing phase.
You're mistaken about recommends defaults by the way. I just did a test install of Kmail on Buster/KDE and it pulls in accountwizard. MX has a file /etc/apt/apt.conf which alters the Debian default.

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// Recommends are as of now still abused in many packages
APT::Install-Recommends "0";
APT::Install-Suggests "0";

Debian did have that as default a long time ago as packagers were abusing it. It's much more controlled now.

Thanks for.the suggestion.

[SwampRabbit]

First lets keep this to the RC, if accountwizard needs added, it can be added... we don't need to beat a dead horse here.

Second...

// Recommends are as of now still abused in many packages
...
Debian did have that as default a long time ago as packagers were abusing it. It's much more controlled now.

Note the bold and underlined you referenced.... "PACAKGES" meaning the actual package either from the actual upstream developer or Debian package maintainers... not the MX Package Maintainers (packagers). Our packages don't affect Debian packages upstream at all.

Its not controlled at all at the Debian level, folks have no clue how much worthless crap we have saved ya'll from having to have installed on your systems. How about how Stevo spends tons of time to make sure our Chromium does hardware accelerated video?

I mean I can start leaving systemd, mono, dozens of other stuff as mandatory dependencies if you want?

Lets stop making assumptions.

Let's stick to clearly articulating that a dependency is needed or an application would be good to have and exactly why. This is an RC1 release after all, if we missed accountwizard, it might because those that needed KMail didn't test it enough in the Betas.

[dolphin_oracle]

First lets keep this to the RC, if accountwizard needs added, it can be added... we don't need to beat a dead horse here.

Second...

// Recommends are as of now still abused in many packages
...
Debian did have that as default a long time ago as packagers were abusing it. It's much more controlled now.

Note the bold and underlined you referenced.... "PACAKGES" meaning the actual package either from the actual upstream developer or Debian package maintainers... not the MX Package Maintainers (packagers). Our packages don't affect Debian packages upstream at all.

Its not controlled at all at the Debian level, folks have no clue how much worthless crap we have saved ya'll from having to have installed on your systems. How about how Stevo spends tons of time to make sure our Chromium does hardware accelerated video?

I mean I can start leaving systemd, mono, dozens of other stuff as mandatory dependencies if you want?

Lets stop making assumptions.

Let's stick to clearly articulating that a dependency is needed or an application would be good to have and exactly why. This is an RC1 release after all, if we missed accountwizard, it might because those that needed KMail didn't test it enough in the Betas.

we decided to not install kmail by default because the version of kmail in the debian repo doesn't actually work with several mail services, including gmail.

the recommends vs. depends thing is a long standing point (debian installs recommends as if they are depends by default, and we don't), and it crops up from time to time, the issue is just very obvious in kmail's case.

moving along now...

[JayM]

Don't forget that MX Package Installer, which is the recommended way to install packages anyway, still has the checkbox to also install recommends on a case-by-case basis on the stable, test repo and Debian backports tabs. I usually select it then review what will be installed prior to clicking continue, then if it wants to install a bunch of junk I don't want I click cancel and start over, this time not checking the recommends box. Or if I install something and it doesn't work as expected due to a missing recommend I just reinstall it, this time checking the recommends checkbox.

[Stevo]

We do have several KDE programs in testing that are quite a bit newer than the Buster version, or very near, but we don't get much feedback, if any at all, so they're still there. I've taken to just sending Krita directly to main, since it doesn't affect any other programs. Others that still need testers are K3B, digiKam, and Marble--it would be nice to have those available in the repo so we could mention those along with the KDE edition final release.

I'll look at Kmail to see if it can also be updated, but I get a feeling that it's too closely tied to a newer Plasma. But we ship T-bird anyway--why the fuss about Kmail?

[JayM]

I can't help with K3B or digiKam 'cause I don't have an optical drive or digital camera but I installed

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2020-08-10  12:38:21  install  plasma-marble           amd64  <none>         4:20.04.1-0.1~mx19+1
2020-08-10  12:38:20  install  marble-qt               amd64  <none>         4:20.04.1-0.1~mx19+1
2020-08-10  12:38:20  install  marble-plugins          amd64  <none>         4:20.04.1-0.1~mx19+1
2020-08-10  12:38:20  install  marble-maps             amd64  <none>         4:20.04.1-0.1~mx19+1
2020-08-10  12:38:20  install  marble                  amd64  <none>         4:20.04.1-0.1~mx19+1

from the test repo and briefly tested both Marble and KDE Marble. All maps work, zooming in and out works, changing location view works. I didn't try the to and from directions part yet but so far nothing appears to be broken.

Code: Select all

System:
  Host: mx Kernel: 5.6.0-2-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 8.3.0 
  parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.6.0-2-amd64 
  root=UUID=3d06c757-cfee-4ee9-9e35-0ee4203bd383 ro quiet splash 
  Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.14.5 wm: kwin_x11 dm: SDDM 
  Distro: MX-19.2_KDE-RC1_x64 patito feo August 9  2020 
  base: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) 
Machine:
  Type: Virtualbox System: innotek product: VirtualBox v: 1.2 serial: <filter> 
  Chassis: Oracle Corporation type: 1 serial: <filter> 
  Mobo: Oracle model: VirtualBox v: 1.2 serial: <filter> BIOS: innotek v: VirtualBox 
  date: 12/01/2006 
Battery:
  ID-1: BAT0 charge: 49.0 Wh condition: 50.0/50.0 Wh (100%) volts: 10.0/10.0 
  model: innotek 1 type: Unknown serial: N/A status: Unknown 
CPU:
  Topology: Dual Core model: AMD Ryzen 5 2500U with Radeon Vega Mobile Gfx bits: 64 
  type: MCP arch: Zen family: 17 (23) model-id: 11 (17) stepping: N/A 
  microcode: 6000626 L2 cache: 1024 KiB 
  flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 bogomips: 7984 
  Speed: 1996 MHz min/max: N/A Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1996 2: 1996 
  Vulnerabilities: Type: itlb_multihit status: Not affected 
  Type: l1tf status: Not affected 
  Type: mds status: Not affected 
  Type: meltdown status: Not affected 
  Type: spec_store_bypass 
  mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl and seccomp 
  Type: spectre_v1 
  mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization 
  Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Full AMD retpoline, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling 
  Type: srbds status: Not affected 
  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected 
Graphics:
  Device-1: VMware SVGA II Adapter driver: vmwgfx v: 2.17.0.0 bus ID: 00:02.0 
  chip ID: 15ad:0405 
  Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: vmware unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa 
  compositor: kwin_x11 resolution: 1896x965_vbox~60Hz 
  OpenGL: renderer: llvmpipe (LLVM 10.0.0 128 bits) v: 3.3 Mesa 20.0.7 compat-v: 3.1 
  direct render: Yes 
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 82801AA AC97 Audio vendor: Dell driver: snd_intel8x0 v: kernel 
  bus ID: 00:05.0 chip ID: 8086:2415 
  Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.6.0-2-amd64 
Network:
  Device-1: Intel 82540EM Gigabit Ethernet driver: e1000 v: 7.3.21-k8-NAPI 
  port: d020 bus ID: 00:03.0 chip ID: 8086:100e 
  IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
  Device-2: Intel 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI type: network bridge driver: piix4_smbus 
  v: N/A port: d200 bus ID: 00:07.0 chip ID: 8086:7113 
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 20.00 GiB used: 7.01 GiB (35.1%) 
  ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: VirtualBox model: VBOX HARDDISK size: 20.00 GiB block size: 
  physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 3.0 Gb/s serial: <filter> rev: 1.0 
  scheme: MBR 
Partition:
  ID-1: / raw size: 17.97 GiB size: 17.56 GiB (97.73%) used: 7.01 GiB (39.9%) 
  fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1 
  ID-2: swap-1 size: 2.00 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) fs: swap 
  swappiness: 15 (default 60) cache pressure: 100 (default) dev: /dev/sda2 
Sensors:
  Message: No sensors data was found. Is sensors configured? 
Repos:
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list 
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list 
  1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list 
  1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
  2: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list 
  1: deb https://mirror.pregi.net/mx-linux-packages/mx/repo/ buster main non-free
  2: deb https://mirror.pregi.net/mx-linux-packages/mx/repo/ buster ahs
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list 
Info:
  Processes: 171 Uptime: 43m Memory: 3.85 GiB used: 644.5 MiB (16.4%) Init: SysVinit 
  v: 2.93 runlevel: 5 default: 5 Compilers: gcc: 8.3.0 alt: 8 Shell: quick-system-in 
  running in: quick-system-in inxi: 3.0.36 

Hopefully someone who's done a bare metal install on a system with an optical drive burner and a spare blank disk can install and test K3B from the test repo.

[andyprough]

k3b 19.04.2 is running well for me. I burned a couple of antiX ISO's tonight on DVD-R's using an external usb3-connected dvd burner. Quick and accurate as usual. Good project.