MX Linux Forum

Our current position concerning systemd status and MX-19.

https://mxlinux.org/blog/about-mx-19-and-systemd/

A superb position and result.

That's awesome dolphin!
Not often that a solution can be found that pleases everyone :)

Simply put ... thank you.

I'm not sure if this merits its own thread. If so, moderators please feel free to move it.

However, I believe the MX position as stated in the posts today by D_O, which I assume represent both MX & antiX, effectively place MX & antiX in a unique position within the Linux-world. Not only do both platforms represent a significant number of users, but, they also represent an alternative and "open' set of approaches for the greater Linux Desktop User Community. I personally am very pleased to be associated with this 'rabble'.

Agree in general, though antiX has no systemd at all, right?

Jerry3904 wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:55 pm Agree in general, though antiX has no systemd at all, right?

'Tis true... no systemd.

Awesome! Great news!

And for those wondering, we won’t be releasing MX-19 until sometime after Xfce 4.14 goes final later this summer.

https://mxlinux.org/blog/about-mx-19-and-systemd/

no hurry for me, enjoy your summer!
18.3 is working fine ;-)

By default installation, will be systemd or sysv active? and how to change it?

Furthermore, what about Wayland?

Thanks!

SysV is default.
https://mxlinux.org/blog/debian-stable-is-now-buster/

I don't think XFCE 4.14 will be on Wayland.

And XFCE is MX's default DE.

asqwerth wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:58 am SysV is default.

How to change it?
Thanks!

palimmo wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:26 am

asqwerth wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:58 am SysV is default.

How to change it?
Thanks!

alt+F1 then control+f, type "systemd" and press enter.
https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/systemd/.

Excellent news. Big thanks to the shim maintainer.

The answer is in the comments on that blog :)

so if you want to install a snap for some reason but still want to work with sysv, which is the appropriate approach?

xali wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:59 am so if you want to install a snap for some reason but still want to work with sysv, which is the appropriate approach?

Request that the devs install snap plus its repositories or store or whatever it's called in MXPI as they did for flatpaks. Otherwise, install it yourself and risk breaking your system. Or, if whatever app that you want in snaps isn't available in the MX repos, request that it be added.

palimmo wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:39 am By default installation, will be systemd or sysv active? and how to change it?

Furthermore, what about Wayland?

Thanks!

Sysvinit by default. There will be a systemd grub entry just like in mx 18.

Xfce still uses X, so that's what we are shipping.

JayM wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:05 am

xali wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:59 am so if you want to install a snap for some reason but still want to work with sysv, which is the appropriate approach?

Request that the devs install snap plus its repositories or store or whatever it's called in MXPI as they did for flatpaks. Otherwise, install it yourself and risk breaking your system. Or, if whatever app that you want in snaps isn't available in the MX repos, request that it be added.

Since snaps only works with systemd which is not officially supported by mx (we merely give the opportunity for both sysv and systemd to co-exist on the same installation of mx), I highly doubt you'll find snaps incorporated in to mxpi.

Position on systemd in general: go search the official website, it's there somewhere.

manyroads wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:43 pm
However, I believe the MX position as stated in the posts today by D_O, which I assume represent both MX & antiX, effectively place MX & antiX in a unique position within the Linux-world. ...

Not quite.
antiX does not and will not use systemd-shim. ie it is totally systemd-free.

xali wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:59 am so if you want to install a snap for some reason but still want to work with sysv, which is the appropriate approach?

none. snaps require systemd. so you boot systemd mode if you want to use snaps.

which is why we offer flatpaks instead of snaps. flatpaks do not require systemd.

I'm glad we are not ideological driven like antiX and we offer choices to people. In the small poll I created I see that about 10% percent of our users do make use of systemd in one way or another, I'm glad we'll not let them down.

In the same vein as Adrian's post above, I'm glad antiX has taken an ideological position and we will stick to it as our users expect.

it all works :)

Adrian wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:28 am I'm glad we are not ideological driven like antiX and we offer choices to people. In the small poll I created I see that about 10% percent of our users do make use of systemd in one way or another, I'm glad we'll not let them down.

That must be the reason why MX became #1 at distrowatch ranking.

I can't really understand people saying they'll ditch MX-19, because it's giving people a choice... a choice they already have in MX-18.x and earlier.

mx-2018 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:54 amI can't really understand people saying they'll ditch MX-19, because it's giving people a choice... a choice they already have in MX-18.x and earlier.

Those would be the uninformed.

I personally would be happy to lose such users. (That's OK anticapitalista, we'll send them all to you)

To be fair to those users, Debian Buster did break systemd-shim, so co-existence of both inits in the same installation was looking uncertain for MX19, if not for the person who stepped up to look into fixing the shim package for Buster.

So for those users who like MX but need systemd for some reason, they might have had to find another distro if MX decided to stick with antiX base and go full on sysV with no systemd.

Or if they wanted MX to stay with sysV as default, they might have left -- possibly to antiX -- if MX went completely systemd.

I think in their own way, both antiX and MX offer an out-of-the-box alternative (I'm sure Head on a Stick will be by soon to explain that if you knew what you were doing, you could choose from a range of inits besides systemd in Debian proper, ) to systemd-as-default in Debian-land.

asqwerth wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:32 pm I'm sure Head on a Stick will be by soon to explain that if you knew what you were doing, you could choose from a range of inits besides systemd in Debian proper

Have you tried runit-init? It's awesome...

Head_on_a_Stick wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:48 pm

asqwerth wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:32 pm I'm sure Head on a Stick will be by soon to explain that if you knew what you were doing, you could choose from a range of inits besides systemd in Debian proper

Have you tried runit-init? It's awesome...

Now that you're here @Head_on_a_Stick... :lipsrsealed: Have you thought of writing a tutorial on how-to change inits on Debian based systems? I'm assuming you have done that. I have encountered folks on other Forums who would love to see how it's done.

manyroads wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:54 pm I'm assuming you have done that

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=141656

But I'm using GNOME & systemd now so I have no idea if that method still works.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:48 pm

asqwerth wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:32 pm I'm sure Head on a Stick will be by soon to explain that if you knew what you were doing, you could choose from a range of inits besides systemd in Debian proper

Have you tried runit-init? It's awesome...

Not on Debian, because I don't know what I'm doing.

I have it on Void Linux, because it was the default init out of the box.

But I had to read their Wiki and also forum to learn how to manually add the symlinks for printing and scanning to work. All this manual starting of services is not my thing, although I have to say that all it took was knowing the symlink to add.

i am really happy that mx offers a choice with systemd and i am also really happy that antix has taken an ideological position. Both are much appreciated and i really had to say this.
Also thanks for the replies about snaps.