SystemD and Debian Trixie questions

[oops]

Will XFCE with AHS have the option of systemD or be sysVinit in MX 25?

Check out the blog if you haven't already.

Changes coming with MX 25

"Official releases for Fluxbox and Xfce will have separate isos featuring systemd and sysVinit respectively. At this time, the KDE iso will ship with systemd only."

So in fact, maybe it is the time to have KDE as the defaut MX version instead XFCE for MX25 ?.

which DE most MX developpers use today (probably KDE ?) ?

[advice1010]

Ahh where to begin

@AK-47
Thank you for your response.
I am concerned about the kernel as well but that is an even higher level then the init system and not much choice.
Unless.... does anyone know if it is possible to use Linux without using the Linux Kernel?.... :)
MX Team let's get to work on this ASAP!

True in certain cases it is nice to have one standard option, but it depends who is providing that option.

Geoclue
In this case Geoclue appears to be installed and running by default. I do not think Nightshift comes bundled in Debian. I know what it does, the question is why would it be installed/autostarted by default without letting users know?

I noticed that other users as well as yourself seem to be questioning why I would be making this post here. So you guys think that I should ask these big companies for answers about what they could be doing in secret?
I have some insulting things I would like to say to other users as well as yourself about this but you look like you are in pretty good shape so I am just going to keep my mouth shut :)
Thanks again

@Mauser
I am not sure the reason for quoting my entire thread post for this statement, but thank you for your post. Yes this is one of the things that made me start to question this more/making this post.

@siamhie
No, no Nightshift, I just downloaded the XFCE live version and while running in a default live session, I opened the "Session & Startup" and noticed that in the "Application Autostart" it is on the list, checked "on" to autostart.
You did not experience this? that is strange.
Also thank you for being able to understand the point of my post and for clarifying it for other users, your statement was not wrong.
I did see that changes post thank you, that was one of the main reasons for making this post :)

I did not see this because running live but I have seen a couple users elsewhere mention concerns with something called Debian "popularity-contest". They said user is asked to opt in, so it is not "on" by default. I am sure it is probably helpful to Debian but again would rather not have stuff like this included.
Not sure if this is installed/part of Debian by default? Or is it IF you opt in, that then it installs this in a separate package?
That would be more understandable if it is done this way, installed only if opt in.
If you or anyone knows, please mention it.

@anticapitalista
Thank you for your post.
Edit:
I removed what I mentioned here because I did not realize your reply was for a different users comment.
I made a reply below because now I know what you mean.

[siamhie]

Geoclue
In this case Geoclue appears to be installed and running by default. I do not think Nightshift comes bundled in Debian. I know what it does, the question is why would it be installed/autostarted by default without letting users know?


@siamhie
No, no Nightshift, I just downloaded the XFCE live version and while running in a default live session, I opened the "Session & Startup" and noticed that in the "Application Autostart" it is on the list, checked "on" to autostart.
You did not experience this? that is strange.
Also thank you for being able to understand the point of my post and for clarifying it for other users, your statement was not wrong.
I did see that changes post thank you, that was one of the main reasons for making this post :)

I did not see this because running live but I have seen a couple users elsewhere mention concerns with something called Debian "popularity-contest". They said user is asked to opt in, so it is not "on" by default. I am sure it is probably helpful to Debian but again would rather not have stuff like this included.
Not sure if this is installed/part of Debian by default? Or is it IF you opt in, that then it installs this in a separate package?
That would be more understandable if it is done this way, installed only if opt in.
If you or anyone knows, please mention it.

@advice1010
I downloaded and booted up the Deb13 XFCE live ISO and it does have the Geoclue Demo agent listed in autostart.




The Geoclue program is installed on the live ISO.




As I mentioned in my other post (#4), Geoclue was not installed from the DVD ISO I grabbed from Debian's site and I double checked synaptic and don't see it installed either.
It must be a live ISO thing.

[DukeComposed]

I am concerned about the kernel as well but that is an even higher level then the init system and not much choice.
Unless.... does anyone know if it is possible to use Linux without using the Linux Kernel?.... :)

https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/

I noticed that other users as well as yourself seem to be questioning why I would be making this post here. So you guys think that I should ask these big companies for answers about what they could be doing in secret?
I have some insulting things I would like to say to other users as well as yourself about this but you look like you are in pretty good shape so I am just going to keep my mouth shut :)

This isn't the first time you've asked people questions about software they don't own and then balked at the notion of asking the right people with the right scope purely due to a misguided privacy concern that, frankly, sounds downright paranoid. "Google owns Chrome, therefore I will not trust Google and shall ask my Chromium questions here." "Debian uses systemd, therefore I will not trust Debian and shall ask my Trixie questions here." You realize how nuts that sounds, right?

It's about as realistic a choice as deciding to call Debian a big company.

It's one thing to mistrust proprietary software. I get it. You download Windows or OSX, you have no way of knowing what it's doing in the background.

Meanwhile, every Debian package comes with a source package. You could build Debian, or any other Linux distro, from the source code if you preferred. A few distros can only be installed from source, and some others offer binaries but still place a strong emphasis on compiling optimized packages directly from the code for your exact architecture.

The code is out there. You can download it. You can inspect it. You can run your tests on it. And if you find something you don't like, you can go point it out to the maintainer and let other folks know what you found. I promise you someone unaffiliated with the Debian project will be around to look at it and say either "that doesn't look right" or "no, that's a benign DNS lookup" or whatever. Debian does not care about secret surveillance tools and beaming your thoughts back to the mothership. Neither does Google, for that matter.

If you don't trust the software, don't use it. If you're going to use it and you have concerns -- legitimate concerns -- about its safety or security, take it up with the people who have the experience, interest, and ability to do something about it. This forum is about MX Linux. MX Linux doesn't run on Trixie yet. Some day it will. Until then, this thread is off-topic and you're clearly unhappy about sharing your issues with the people best qualified to address them. That won't improve anything. It's just standing around the watering hole griping at anyone willing to listen to you.

You have insulting things you want to say? Go ahead and say them. Somewhere else, please. We're trying to enjoy MX Linux over here.

[FullScale4Me]

Will XFCE with AHS have the option of systemD or be sysVinit in MX 25?

A stock Xfce installation can be made into AHS by enabling the MX own AHS repo in MX Repo Manager. After that, a full update will pull in the AHS bits.

This PC has a less than a week-old Xfce standard edition install that was updated less than an hour ago. After enabling AHS, a new update has 64 total items (53 upgraded, 11 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.), 409 Mb total.

[AA BB]

No need for this post... anyone with qualms about sysD should select an MX25 iso based on sysV

[advice1010]

Hmm, no moderators

@anticapitalista
I removed my reply to your post above because I did not realize you were responding to another users comment.
"Just to point out that Wayland does not require systemd."
I think I understand what you meant now that I could see quotes, which were not registering at the time.
It is not that Wayland eliminates the need for SystemD, it is that Wayland (at this time) does not require SystemD specifically to function, but an init system is still required.

@siamhie
I understand, so many different versions of Debian can get confusing :)
So, at least to me, still strange that GeoClue is being used automatically, if they do not already, they probably should at least mention this on their website so users would be aware, if they are not interested in using it.
Anyways, at least it is not something that is needed to be used in all their releases.
Thank you again for sharing this information, most valuable part of this experience so far.

@AA BB
Thanks for the great reply but I would like to be able to question and try to understand things if possible, so I do feel there is a need for this post.

If anyone has any more information to share about the questions asked please let me know.
Thank You

[oops]

... will give you no choice since KDE insists on using Wayland which requires systemD.

Just to point out that Wayland does not require systemd.

Cool.

Now we have just to find some light WM wayland candidates to replace the X11 IceWM into antiX.

Do you already have some idéas ?

[siamhie]

@siamhie
I understand, so many different versions of Debian can get confusing :)
So, at least to me, still strange that GeoClue is being used automatically, if they do not already, they probably should at least mention this on their website so users would be aware, if they are not interested in using it.
Anyways, at least it is not something that is needed to be used in all their releases.
Thank you again for sharing this information, most valuable part of this experience so far.

As I pointed out already, the Debian 13 XFCE live ISO has GeoClue installed and running but the installed Debian 13 XFCE ISO doesn't have GeoClue installed.

[jeffreyC]

FreeBSD has KDE Plasma 6 on Wayland working, so it is pretty safe to say that it is not Plasma 6 or Wayland that is requiring systemd.

OpenBSD also has Plasma 6, but I have not seen whether they have Wayland.