Thank you for MX snapshot!

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anticapitalista
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Re: Thank you for MX snapshot!

#11 Post by anticapitalista »

heavy metal wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 4:05 am
operadude wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 3:26 am MX-SNAPSHOT :number1:

I use MX-Snapshot as part of my Backup Strategy:

Daily DATA LuckyBackups, across 4 removable drives & 1 "cloud".
Weekly Timeshift Snapshots
Monthly MX-Snapshots

As has been stated numerous times on the Forum: TEST YOUR BACKUPS :exclamation:

IIRC, MX-Snapshot is based (wholly?) on the antiX tool.

Ready to stand corrected, and eat humble-pie :exclamation: :bagoverhead:

(Admins, Devs, Moderators, etc. listening?)

:cool:
Yeah, I think you're right, AntiX was the first debian derivative OS who had the snapshot tool AFAIK!
Not quite.
Refracta was the first Debian based distro I know of that had a snapshot tool (cli and gui)
antiX followed with a modified version and MX polished it up with the QT gui front end we all love today.
anticapitalista
Reg. linux user #395339.

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - lean and mean.
https://antixlinux.com

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operadude
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Re: Thank you for MX snapshot!

#12 Post by operadude »

anticapitalista wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 6:25 am
heavy metal wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 4:05 am
operadude wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 3:26 am MX-SNAPSHOT :number1:

I use MX-Snapshot as part of my Backup Strategy:

Daily DATA LuckyBackups, across 4 removable drives & 1 "cloud".
Weekly Timeshift Snapshots
Monthly MX-Snapshots

As has been stated numerous times on the Forum: TEST YOUR BACKUPS :exclamation:

IIRC, MX-Snapshot is based (wholly?) on the antiX tool.

Ready to stand corrected, and eat humble-pie :exclamation: :bagoverhead:

(Admins, Devs, Moderators, etc. listening?)

:cool:
Yeah, I think you're right, AntiX was the first debian derivative OS who had the snapshot tool AFAIK!
Not quite.
Refracta was the first Debian based distro I know of that had a snapshot tool (cli and gui)
antiX followed with a modified version and MX polished it up with the QT gui front end we all love today.
Thank you @anticapitalista for the clarification :thumbsup:

And thanks to everyone who works so hard on making and maintaining all of these awesome tools! :celebrate:

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Adrian
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Re: Thank you for MX snapshot!

#13 Post by Adrian »

@anticapitalista unless you had that remaster script from Refracta, our tool has nothing to do with that, I never tried Refracta or tried their tool and the methods we are using in Snapshot were developed by BitJam and me. My "MX-Tools" that was renamed to "MX Snapshot" was originally just a way to GUIfy some tools (hence the "MX Tools" name) and specifically your remastering script ('remaster.sh") and it evolved from that into a snapshotting tool.

Here's for example a link to an 15 years old version of the remaster.sh (unfortunately I don't think we have the development history of that in github)
https://github.com/MEPIS-Community/remastering-script/
IIRC, MX-Snapshot is based (wholly?) on the antiX tool.
No, it's not quote like that, and not "wholly", it was written by me with the help of BitJam (antiX developer), but it wasn't an antiX tool, it has a long history, the idea came from a "remastering script" that antiX had (a bash script that would unpack an ISO, copy it over and allow you to chroot into it, modify it and pack it back). Personally I didn't like that it took ages to unpack and copy over not to mention that it need all that space on the harddrive so I tried to improve the script by mounting it and doing the copy from there without copy it over to the disk.

Initially the first improvement I made was to use "rsync" instead of "cp" so if reopening the same ISO would not need to copy the entire ISO again, only the changed files (here's how the main copy function looked in 2015: https://github.com/AdrianTM/mx-snapshot ... #L271-L292 it was simply copying stuff from the unmounted ISO to a new place where we'd run mksquashfs to make the squashfs and then package it with genisoimage.

Then I decided to use "mount" instead of "rsync" to mount to "work dir" to the "new-squashfs" folder (that's probably an idea I borrowed from BitJam's build-iso script): here's the commit from 2015: https://github.com/AdrianTM/mx-snapshot ... 9f3e450a5f this saved the time and space of copying all the files with rsync. It also wiped my disk in the process a couple of times till I got the mounting/unmounting right.

Eventually we discovered that we can use mount binds to mount files over to reset some files to the original Live ISO files or to our version of the files, that allowed not only to make changes to an unpacked ISO, but that allowed us to "hide" or change files from the running system, once we made that work because it was so much better than remastering ISO (and since remaster.sh was the tool for that) I dropped the option to remaster an ISO from the GUI tool.

Without the help of BitJam and anticapitalista this tool would not have been possible, for example, I had no idea and even now I'm not sure how iso-templates is supposed to look. BitJam also wrote a tight bash utility "installed-to-live" that does those bind mounts that we call from our GUI tool.

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CharlesV
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Re: Thank you for MX snapshot!

#14 Post by CharlesV »

@Adrian Excellent history and info thank you. And shows how several people working together can make such a difference!

MX Snapshot is one of the tools that stands out in front.
*QSI = Quick System Info from menu (Copy for Forum)
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Nokkaelaein
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Re: Thank you for MX snapshot!

#15 Post by Nokkaelaein »

CharlesV wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:02 pm @Adrian Excellent history and info thank you. And shows how several people working together can make such a difference!

MX Snapshot is one of the tools that stands out in front.
Agreed. I occasionally post my appreciation of MX Snapshot over here - so much so that my identity here might approach that of a MX Snapshot fanboy, lol! Which I, admittedly, am. So there.

:biggrin:

It doesn't cease to amaze me how singular of a solution it is, amongst other top distros of today, only in MX Linux and antiX... and how integrating this type of snapshot / live boot / install trinity hasn't been a priority elsewhere. Like has been pointed out, there are some solutions that can be used to achieve sort of the same thing, with some manual work when installing on a different system, and/or separate manual building steps at ISO creation time. However, it's exactly that deep integration that we have available over here, that is the standout feature. Being able to just concentrate on configuring the system (even into something wildly different than the base; not just cosmetics) and then BOOM, snapshot -> live boot and install somewhere else ❤️

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operadude
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Re: Thank you for MX snapshot!

#16 Post by operadude »

@Adrian Thanks for the correction and full history :exclamation:

Reading through your post, I think I understand why I thought MX-Snapshot was mostly (if not wholly) based on antiX: IIRC, using the Remaster tool on a personal snapshot shows the antiX logo/name in the dialog boxes.

Your detailed post reminds me of this:

"And now you know...the REST of the story"

:cool:

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Adrian
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Re: Thank you for MX snapshot!

#17 Post by Adrian »

Combing through my emails, email from 2008 to anticapitalista:
Adrian wrote:right now I'm trying to comb the remaster
script to make it look nicer and check for errors. I really like it
it's fully functional for this task. In the future I want to make one
for remastering from the harddisk, now that I learned a bit more about
what needs to be in initrd it shouldn't be THAT difficult.
anticapitalista wrote:I'll have a look again at the remaster script.
If you could get it to remaster an installed MEPIS/
antiX, that would be superb.
Adrian wrote:Frankly I don't think it would be difficult to remaster an installed
MEPIS/Antix (it will keep though the original Live CD kernel) it
basically needs to have a copy of things in /new-iso folder except the
squashfs file and that file is created by compressing the HD content.
I'll get working on that, is going to be a separate script though (or
maybe include in the same one and call it with a different option)
anticapitalista wrote:I don't think remastering an installed antiX/MEPIS is as it seems, but
good luck with it.
He he... challenge accepted.
Adrian wrote:OK, uploaded the remastering script:
http://www.mepis.org/docs/en/index.php/ ... ing_script

Can you please play with it a bit to see if there are any obvious
bugs? It should remasters from harddisk too, although I got X I
couldn't log in, have to figure out what else needs to be changed (I
did login to console in my remastered from harddisk ISO)

So the idea was there at least since 2008. While Refracta didn't even start till 2010s:
Refracta was born out of a desire to create a lightweight, customizable Debian-based distribution that avoided the complexities of systemd. The project started in the early 2010s
Just to set history straight :)

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anticapitalista
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Re: Thank you for MX snapshot!

#18 Post by anticapitalista »

@Adrian

i think you are confusing remaster and snapshot .
anticapitalista
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Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - lean and mean.
https://antixlinux.com

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Adrian
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Re: Thank you for MX snapshot!

#19 Post by Adrian »

anticapitalista wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 3:52 pm @Adrian

i think you are confusing remaster and snapshot .
There's no confusion, I was using the term in the parlance of "remastering ISO" (that's what remaster.sh was doing) and "remastering distro from harddisk" which snapshot does. So yes, the "remaster" doesn't match the use of "remastering live system" in antiX an MX parlance, but it does match "remastering ISO" since you used that in that "remaster.sh" script. Actually even "snapshot" is a debatable term since it can mean multiple thing like BTRFS snapshot vs. mx-snapshot.

But in any case I think it's pretty clear where mx-snapshot is coming from, it's a gradual development from remaster.sh, it has nothing to do with Refracta which came years after I started to implement the changes that would lead to MX Snapshot.

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anticapitalista
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Re: Thank you for MX snapshot!

#20 Post by anticapitalista »

OK @Adrian I agree with you about the parlance. MX-snapshot was an independent tool developed by MX not related to Refracta and yes you did have a prototype back in 2008. :)

antiX did, however, use the Refracta snapshot tool (adapted) in version 11 or 12 (in 2011/2012) to create a 'snapshot' of an installed system and turn it into an iso file.

To add, I do remember you writing the remaster.sh script so I could 'turn' Mepis into antiX when I first did it back in 2006/2007 or even earlier. I would not have been able to create antiX back then.
anticapitalista
Reg. linux user #395339.

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - lean and mean.
https://antixlinux.com

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