Why Cloudflare CAPTCHAs to even see the forum??

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Stuart_M
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:10 pm

Re: Why Cloudflare CAPTCHAs to even see the forum??

#121 Post by Stuart_M »

Stevo wrote: Fri Apr 25, 2025 1:21 pm How did it get out of date? I upgraded it in the main repos a week or two ago. Browsers should always be updated ASAP.
Because all the browsers I tested were on my primary (daily-used) MX-19.4 Xfce. Waterfox and Pale Moon were the only two browsers of the four that I have installed that were not able to get past the CAPTCHA test on my MX-19.4 Xfce installation. So I went to my MX-21.3 Xfce "evaluation" installation ("evaluation" can be interpreted any way you want) where Waterfox and Pale Moon have the latest MXPI versions. Pale Moon passed the CAPTCHA just fine. Waterfox was "the problem child". While it did a little better than it did on MX-19 using version 2021.04.1, it still hung up on the CAPTCHA in MX-21.3 ("little better" meaning that the CAPTCHA in MX-21 at least displayed the square (without the green checkmark) but still had a never-ending circular progress wheel).

None of my browsers are up to date, much less with the latest versions even though it would be VERY simple and fast for me to get the latest versions in MX-19.4 for Firefox (manual installation) and google-chrome (MXPI automatic installation). I'm good where I'm at.

I have Firefox at 128.0 because that is the minimum version for the Firefox root certificate to verify signed content and add-ons. I could easily (manually) install the latest version (137.0.2) on my MX-19.4 but have no interest. Firefox is my primary and daily-used browser that I have had zero problems with. If/when a problem occurs with an out-of-date Firefox I'll just manually update it like I did updating to 128.0 a few months ago. I know many will call that just plain stupid, etc. but they are not me and I am not them...I don't care.

Chrome is on 133.0.6943.101 on my MX-19 and even though the google-chrome updates keep coming (monthly or more often) through the MXPI almost a year after the MXPI stopped updating packages, I put a "hold" on updating Chrome because, based what Chrome has recently done in the past few months, I believe that Chrome will soon permanently (!) disable uBlockOrigin from that browser (the mentioned Chrome version disabled it just a couple months ago but Chrome did not entirely disable it or remove it; I just re-activated uBo). If I ever have a browser where uBo no longer works then I will stop using that browser. I use Chrome mainly because it does a better job at translating web pages than Firefox and the extension that uses. I copy the URL from Firefox and then paste it in Chrome to view.

Waterfox is rarely used and so it is not worth manually updating on MX-19.

Ditto for Pale Moon.

I have no desire to update any browser I have at this point. I am aware of the risks, potential problems, recommendations, etc. etc. I'll take the risk(s) thank you.

User avatar
uncle mark
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:42 pm

Re: Why Cloudflare CAPTCHAs to even see the forum??

#122 Post by uncle mark »

Stuart_M wrote: Fri Apr 25, 2025 3:10 pm
Stevo wrote: Fri Apr 25, 2025 1:21 pm How did it get out of date? I upgraded it in the main repos a week or two ago. Browsers should always be updated ASAP.
Because all the browsers I tested were on my primary (daily-used) MX-19.4 Xfce.
[...]
None of my browsers are up to date, much less with the latest versions even though it would be VERY simple and fast for me to get the latest versions in MX-19.4 for Firefox (manual installation) and google-chrome (MXPI automatic installation). I'm good where I'm at.
[...]
I have no desire to update any browser I have at this point. I am aware of the risks, potential problems, recommendations, etc. etc. I'll take the risk(s) thank you.
Man after my own heart. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Custom build Asus/AMD/nVidia circa 2011 -- MX 19.2 KDE
Acer Aspire 5250 -- MX 21 KDE
Toshiba Satellite C55 -- MX 18.3 Xfce
Assorted Junk -- assorted Linuxes

/df
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2024 7:05 am

Re: Why Cloudflare CAPTCHAs to even see the forum??

#123 Post by /df »

Seems like careful tuning by the techs at CF has turned the Turnstile challenge into a complete DoS for SeaMonkey 2.53.20, which could break into the site last time despite their best efforts, but they haven't yet completely succeeded with FF (128ESR).

putih
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:44 pm

Re: Why Cloudflare CAPTCHAs to even see the forum??

#124 Post by putih »

Stuart_M wrote: Fri Apr 25, 2025 3:10 pm
Stevo wrote: Fri Apr 25, 2025 1:21 pm How did it get out of date? I upgraded it in the main repos a week or two ago. Browsers should always be updated ASAP.
Because all the browsers I tested were on my primary (daily-used) MX-19.4 Xfce. Waterfox and Pale Moon were the only two browsers of the four that I have installed that were not able to get past the CAPTCHA test on my MX-19.4 Xfce installation. So I went to my MX-21.3 Xfce "evaluation" installation ("evaluation" can be interpreted any way you want) where Waterfox and Pale Moon have the latest MXPI versions.

None of my browsers are up to date, much less with the latest versions even though it would be VERY simple and fast for me to get the latest versions in MX-19.4 for Firefox (manual installation) and google-chrome (MXPI automatic installation). I'm good where I'm at.

I have Firefox at 128.0 because that is the minimum version for the Firefox root certificate to verify signed content and add-ons. I could easily (manually) install the latest version (137.0.2) on my MX-19.4 but have no interest.


I have no desire to update any browser I have at this point. I am aware of the risks, potential problems, recommendations, etc. etc. I'll take the risk(s) thank you.
MX-19.4 Xfce EOL
Dont update browser tru MXPI
Direct download firefox , Waterfox and Pale Moon from browser own website
minimum version of latest Firefox is ESR 115.x
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/desktop-esr/

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AK-47
Developer
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:04 pm

Re: Why Cloudflare CAPTCHAs to even see the forum??

#125 Post by AK-47 »

richb wrote: Fri Apr 25, 2025 6:35 am We are evaluating other options that may be effective in mitigating the attack. For now the captcha is necessary to keep the Forum working .
The Arch Wiki uses Anubis for their mitigations: https://github.com/TecharoHQ/anubis
This is hosted locally and uses proof-of-work to check whether it's a real browser or not, no captcha presented, just need to enable JavaScript for the domain being protected so it can operate correctly (like you do with cloudflare in the current situation).

That said the tool was designed to impede AI bots.

User avatar
richb
Administrator
Posts: 10836
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:17 pm

Re: Why Cloudflare CAPTCHAs to even see the forum??

#126 Post by richb »

AK-47 wrote: Mon Apr 28, 2025 7:12 am
richb wrote: Fri Apr 25, 2025 6:35 am We are evaluating other options that may be effective in mitigating the attack. For now the captcha is necessary to keep the Forum working .
The Arch Wiki uses Anubis for their mitigations: https://github.com/TecharoHQ/anubis
This is hosted locally and uses proof-of-work to check whether it's a real browser or not, no captcha presented, just need to enable JavaScript for the domain being protected so it can operate correctly (like you do with cloudflare in the current situation).

That said the tool was designed to impede AI bots.
In most cases, you should not need this and can probably get by using Cloudflare to protect a given origin. However, for circumstances where you can't or won't use Cloudflare, Anubis is there for you.
We use Cloudlare. And are fine tuning it to block regions.
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